Optimal Open world/dungeon Spec

[Seabhac.6824]

Good evening all, I wanted to pick yer brains for some options and ideas. I came back to the game with my Mesmer from 4 years ago and was getting frustrated,.. I specced into Chronomancer wielding a scepter/pistol and Greatsword because I always ran my Mesmer more ranged years ago. It was ok but I was getting sick of being splattered left and right. I since switched to a Deadeye thief with an unload build as was having a good time with it, finished the storyline, got my griffon etc.. Now I want to go back and pick up my Mesmer where I left off and try to make her more effective than she once was. Tonight I finished getting ALL the hero points in PoF and some in HoT so I could fill out my Mirage skill line to give myself another option. Now that I have ALL the skills possible, what do you all suggest??

Primarily I just do open world and dungeons, a few small fracs and once in a very rare blue moon when a smurf if born on the vernal equinox of the centennial of the birth of the world,.. I will PvP a little..I'm either solo or with couple friends when I play.. we have yet to claim our guild hall due to difficulty and I'd like to contribute more and make my Mesmer more effective now.. my primary focus is survival in open world and support.. I am sick of being splattered if I'm not careful. Can anyone suggest the best builds, weather it is Mirage (I've heard not so happy things about them) or Chronomancer that will be most effective in these open world environments and a few dungeons.. I have ALL the skill lines so have at it.. whatever you thing works best. And thanks in advance!!

[AliamRationem.5172]

I answered more or less this same question in a similar thread. The raid meta mirage clone build (Chaos/Dueling/Mirage with Self-Deception and Infinite Horizon) is actually quite strong both in terms of damage and survivability in open world. I'd suggest taking either staff or scepter for when remaining close range with axe isn't feasible.

This is what I use in open world:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAnfWnELDNohFMDWoBMMjlZjyf+7//3MEWhWqMAqtcD-jxxHQBAZ/hBq8beq/MO9BZUJIAOFA06JAQIgFrBA-e

And this is what it looks like in action, recorded and uploaded just now for your thread: Mirage vs. Champion Forged Sorcerer bounty

[Seabhac.6824]

I love it, thanks for the response. 1 question though .. how would GS be instead of scepter or staff? I ask because I like GS alot

[Cyninja.2954]

Greatsword is a pvp or tag enemys in open world power weapon.

It honestly has little room in dungeons or fractals, even less so on a condition spec. You could run it, but once you reach higher fractals people will ask you to use a different weapon.

[Seabhac.6824]

Appreciate all the help! another questions though,.. I'm still using my exotic old school Berserker's gear with Chronomancers runes on them.,.. what would be a better setup for this and how does this build handle groups,.. more often than not when in open world you get jumped by groups, not 1 at a time

[Cyninja.2954]

Berserker gear remains fine for power builds.

If you want a fast and cheap condition setup, I'd recommend get some exotic dire or rabid gear. You can put in some renegade runes (or mirage if you don't want to use super expensive runes or any other cheap condi rune). Best in slot would be viper, but definitely don't make any exotic viper gear. Far to expensive, better to get ascended gear and stat swap to viper eventually.

Trinkets are easily available via Living World Season 3 maps, feel free to pick viper as stat on those.

For groups it depends on which group we are talking about. Power can be a bit trickier since we lack good area damage. Best is probably to use focus 4 to pull enemys together.

[Wandering Mist.2973]

If you're not a fan of Condi builds, I'm currently running a power mirage build with GS.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vhEQNAscRnsIClphFMDGpBMMjlUDD9LsGyCkDgLQAw/A+AngA-e

With this build I can solo pretty much all open world content. What I like about it is you can instantly put up 25 stacks of vulnerability on a target and maintain it throughout the fight. I wouldn't recommend it for group content but for solo work it's fine.

[FaboBabo.3581]

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhQQNAncRnELDFMjFpBmpBMMjlVDrcDMCCA+FwGYEEdLEUuOA-jVSBQBL4EA8U9Ba4JA0IlgZVdnRpSQZU+Fo9HAwhAIAACwMLzycmBm5Mn5Mn5M76ycmzcmzcmzcmzcmlCoKlVA-w Hybrid Mirage Build for open world, up to t2 fractals and even wvw if u want. Survives everything, kills everything , uses GS. Weapons can still be switched.swap cleanse mantra and blink or illusionary for dmg signets. swap Elusive Mind with IH whenever possible.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Seabhac.6824 said:I love it, thanks for the response. 1 question though .. how would GS be instead of scepter or staff? I ask because I like GS alot

The thing with the clone ambush mirage build is that nothing seems to really come close to the damage output of axe. Scepter is probably the best choice for straight damage from range, but it's also mostly single-target. Great for bosses, but in open world I prefer to have some ability to hit multiple targets. That leaves staff and greatsword.

Staff is sort of a weird, low-damage hybrid weapon. I really like the mobility/clone generation on-demand with staff 2 and I find chaos storm incredibly useful between combos for chaos armor that stack protection via chaotic dampening, pulsing aegis to gain free blocks, and whirl combos for extra confusion stacks with axe 2. It also generates some interrupts/CC. Having access to two chaos storms with Descent into Madness and staff 5 is pretty nice in open world.

Greatsword is a power weapon, and not known for its damage output. However, I did briefly test a bleed-stacking build using greatsword and the damage wasn't bad as far as non-axe weapons go. It relies on the Sharper Images trait in Dueling that grants your clones bleeding on critical. Since the greatsword ambush/AA hit 3 times, you actually stack quite a lot of bleeding this way.

Ultimately, you're best off using axe as much as possible. It produces the most damage, generates clones quickly, and brings solid defense with axe 3 and torch 4. So I think of the other weapon slot as simply ranged support for axe. In that capacity, I think greatsword will work just fine. But try it out and see what you find. I never directly compared greatsword, staff, and scepter using the same setup. I think any of these weapons should work.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Seabhac.6824 said:Appreciate all the help! another questions though,.. I'm still using my exotic old school Berserker's gear with Chronomancers runes on them.,.. what would be a better setup for this and how does this build handle groups,.. more often than not when in open world you get jumped by groups, not 1 at a time

Well, since you already have berserker gear, try out power builds first and see if there's anything you like. That's what I did, and I also enjoyed greatsword. But when I tested viper gear with axe it blew all of the power setups I tried away. The confusion stacking on the clone ambush build is insane. Video time!

I made this one last night. This boss is quite powerful, so it was important to play defensively and utilize heavy CC whenever her breakbar was up. Of course, this somewhat detracts from my offense. Still, if you watch closely you'll see that I still manage to exceed 50 stacks of confusion several times, even while having around 20 stacks each of torment and bleeding! As a result, she died pretty quickly.

Mirage vs. Champion Wurm Queen:

[Seabhac.6824]

What are Viper stats? I can't seem to find ANYTHING Viper on the market at all

[FaboBabo.3581]

@Seabhac.6824 said:What are Viper stats? I can't seem to find ANYTHING Viper on the market at all

HoT Stats, cant be bought by TP. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Recipe:_Viper%27s_Intricate_Gossamer_InsigniaVendors run ascended version too + Inscriptions

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Seabhac.6824 said:What are Viper stats? I can't seem to find ANYTHING Viper on the market at all

Viper is an HoT stat set that grants equal amounts of power/condi along with lesser amounts of precision and expertise. Expertise is the stat that increases your condition duration, and Viper is the only purely offensive set that offers expertise paired with condition damage. Unfortunately, because it's an HoT set, you can't buy it on TP. It has to be either crafted, earned as a reward from HoT content, or purchased with map currencies (LS3 maps).

[Seabhac.6824]

hmm I bought HoT but I went straight from 4 years ago to Path of Fire with a pit stop in HoT Verdant 1st area to get my glider. Is there an equivalent gear type that can fill in until I go do the HoT content?

[FaboBabo.3581]

@Seabhac.6824 said:hmm I bought HoT but I went straight from 4 years ago to Path of Fire with a pit stop in HoT Verdant 1st area to get my glider. Is there an equivalent gear type that can fill in until I go do the HoT content?

rewatch the Link ; u can buy the recept in WvW too.

Cheap alternative is grieving in my opinion ; Stat swap ascended Armor with "Intact Mosaik" - cost arround 1 g in TP.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Seabhac.6824 said:hmm I bought HoT but I went straight from 4 years ago to Path of Fire with a pit stop in HoT Verdant 1st area to get my glider. Is there an equivalent gear type that can fill in until I go do the HoT content?

It's difficult for a mesmer to increase their condi duration without significant amounts of expertise, which is only available on HoT stat sets. You could trait illusions for an additional 33% confusion duration, paired with +30% confusion duration from perplexity runes, then use condi duration food and condi duration signet to get to around 90% confusion duration. However, although confusion is your biggest damage source by a wide margin with an axe build, bleeding, torment, and burning together generally account for at least as much. To have virtually no condition duration increase on these other conditions will seriously impact your damage output. But there just aren't any good options here as far as replacing Viper in a condi build.

I suppose in that case the best you could do would be to go with either a power setup or some sort of hybrid. It isn't "meta", and the damage will be lower, but perhaps you can put something together that is competitive with or superior to a condi setup without access to Viper. If I had to imagine such a build using core stats, it might look something like this...

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAR7anELDNohFMDWoBMMjlUDz/A2AngkDgSQAoMEkcKAA-jxRAABfp8DgnAgHXEge2f4PdDbq+zlKBJFwiKrA-e

Keep in mind that I'm new to mesmer and I may not fully understand some of the underlying mechanics. So maybe this wouldn't work, but the general idea of this build is bleed stacking with clone ambush in a hybrid power/condi setup. I'm working under the assumption that clones will share the 70% crit rate due to heavy precision on this build. If that's true, then expect 6 stacks of bleeding on up to 5 targets with every 3-clone auto or ambush. With sustainable might to boost condi damage over 2K and over 90% increased bleed duration, the damage output should be pretty decent. With blurred inscriptions, desert distortion, and a couple of signets on the bar, you will have good access to extra ambushes on demand. You should be able to push an impressive amount of bleed stacks this way.

Unfortunately, there's no ferocity beyond superiority complex and your power even enhanced with might just isn't going to produce much with greatsword. So overall I expect your damage output to be mediocre compared to Viper axe clone builds, but still perfectly adequate for open world and messing around with dungeons and lower tier fractals. But if you aren't raiding or doing high end fractals, and you can't get viper and you love greatsword, this would probably work just fine.

Easy Alternative: Mess around with straight berserker power setups. The damage is pretty weak, but you already have the gear. In the mean time, work on getting a viper set so you can try condi axe builds. It's the only way to fly for mirage in PvE!

[Seabhac.6824]

hmm from everything I'm hearing sounds like you got your setup pretty right Aliam,.. Just sounds like it's going to take quite a bit to work up to it. Perhaps I should just tweak my current zerker Chronomancer build until I can get my hands on all the Viper gear and then switch to Mirage. I'm currently using a build with Berserker exotics and a build that looks like this,.. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAraRncfCtfilfCGoBEgilUjqeZr2rlcAugA4MKiuqD-jBhPwAA2fwr6PaVCKS5HpAWUZF-e ..I till typically start combat with a phantasmal duelist and magic bullet then toss in wells to hit multiple targets and give alacrity to my phantasms while I swap to GS and stack some might with a phantasmal berserker and a Mirror Blade and Mind stab.. then back to scepter/pistol always using confusing images when it's up, especially after a gravity well.. If there are alot of mobs to start with sometimes I'll gravity well on them to start, drop the other 2 wells on them for more AOE then start in on the phantasms.. I so I guess it's more of a power Phantasm build, making phantasms strong and hitting hard and distracting from me while I hit with GS and scepter from range. Sometimes I switch to Duelist and pick up duelists Discipline so my Phantasmal duelists have bleeds and I can leave a clone when I dodge. It's not perfect by a long ways but it's ok lol

[bart.3687]

@Seabhac.6824 said:hmm from everything I'm hearing sounds like you got your setup pretty right Aliam,.. Just sounds like it's going to take quite a bit to work up to it. Perhaps I should just tweak my current zerker Chronomancer build until I can get my hands on all the Viper gear and then switch to Mirage. I'm currently using a build with Berserker exotics and a build that looks like this,.. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAraRncfCtfilfCGoBEgilUjqeZr2rlcAugA4MKiuqD-jBhPwAA2fwr6PaVCKS5HpAWUZF-e ..I till typically start combat with a phantasmal duelist and magic bullet then toss in wells to hit multiple targets and give alacrity to my phantasms while I swap to GS and stack some might with a phantasmal berserker and a Mirror Blade and Mind stab.. then back to scepter/pistol always using confusing images when it's up, especially after a gravity well.. If there are alot of mobs to start with sometimes I'll gravity well on them to start, drop the other 2 wells on them for more AOE then start in on the phantasms.. I so I guess it's more of a power Phantasm build, making phantasms strong and hitting hard and distracting from me while I hit with GS and scepter from range. Sometimes I switch to Duelist and pick up duelists Discipline so my Phantasmal duelists have bleeds and I can leave a clone when I dodge. It's not perfect by a long ways but it's ok lol

For this build, I'd go full power set and use Sword+Sword/Focus instead of Scepter/Pistol as you are using no condi traitlines. Scepter requires Illusions (Malicious Sorcery) and Pistol requires Dueling (Duelist's Discipline) to be viable. Meanwhile Sword mainhand gives you cleave and really nice defensive skill Blurred Frenzy, sword offhand's phantasm is really nice sustained single target power damage tool, and Focus can pull multiple foes (its phantasm is kinda bad tho). You could argue that scepter is ranged, but you have a GS already so you can make your 2nd weapon set melee. Sword+Focus would probably be really nice for you because you are using Inspiration so you could trait Warden's Feedback to reduce Focus' skills' CDs (btw I'd never use Protected Phantasms, it's a waste of a trait slot to me.)However, I'm not a Power Mesmer expert and I rarely play it in any game mode, so maybe somebody else with wider knowledge could give you more tips.

Let me show you a chrono hybrid shatter build I used to use some time ago in open-world and had fun with it. I have no idea if it's viable for any group content though, probably not (maybe low lvl fractals? Idk). It may not be what you are looking for if you like GS, but anyway:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNArfWncfCFqhVoBOoBEgilXjqMB6tgreYT2lFNAypjA-jRSAABtpEU6HBwmq/owJAYQ9BipMwZleAcEAse/BA-e

It's basically a shatter spam build, you jump in, create illusions asap, and shatter. You can switch Torch to Focus for less damage but more utility (pull), or Scepter to Sword for less damage but better cleave and melee defense.

[Seabhac.6824]

I appreciate all the ideas and suggestions. As it is right now I like the chronomancer for the AOE wells and support but I have yet to find a weapon combo that allows me to survive better than the scepter/pistol and GS sets. I start combat with a duelist and magic bullet, then use scepter 3 for some crazy damage... then I swap to GS and hurl an axe, toss in a phantasmal berserker and use the basic GS attack for a few seconds,.. meanwhile I toss in a few wells for AOE and IF the battle is still on, I will then shatter with continuum shift, gravity well to suck them all together, then drop 2 more wells on them .. then the split flips back and I drop another gravity well and several other wells,.. then switch back to scepter/pistol.. and start all over... alternating between scepter and GS keeping my clones/phantasms popping out nonstop and shattering them once in a while. 80-90% of the time the mobs are so confused between the constant clones/phantasms/illusions that they never look at me twice. Along with the Chronomancer skill set I'll use Domination to enhance the DPS of the phantasms and GS with illusions to enhance scepter or duelist to enhance the pistol duelists. This works fairly well for me. I tried Mirage tonight just playing around with it and I did not really like the melee requirement of it much..

This all may change once I get Viper gear but till then I'll keep trying different builds and combos till I find something that suits me better. I'm always open to trying something new! :)

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Seabhac.6824 said:

I appreciate all the ideas and suggestions. As it is right now I like the chronomancer for the AOE wells and support but I have yet to find a weapon combo that allows me to survive better than the scepter/pistol and GS sets. I start combat with a duelist and magic bullet, then use scepter 3 for some crazy damage... then I swap to GS and hurl an axe, toss in a phantasmal berserker and use the basic GS attack for a few seconds,.. meanwhile I toss in a few wells for AOE and IF the battle is still on, I will then shatter with continuum shift, gravity well to suck them all together, then drop 2 more wells on them .. then the split flips back and I drop another gravity well and several other wells,.. then switch back to scepter/pistol.. and start all over... alternating between scepter and GS keeping my clones/phantasms popping out nonstop and shattering them once in a while. 80-90% of the time the mobs are so confused between the constant clones/phantasms/illusions that they never look at me twice. Along with the Chronomancer skill set I'll use Domination to enhance the DPS of the phantasms and GS with illusions to enhance scepter or duelist to enhance the pistol duelists. This works fairly well for me. I tried Mirage tonight just playing around with it and I did not really like the melee requirement of it much..

This all may change once I get Viper gear but till then I'll keep trying different builds and combos till I find something that suits me better. I'm always open to trying something new! :)

If you're used to ranged weapons and phantasms essentially tanking for you, switching over to a melee-heavy clone build is going to take some getting used to. Clones are more distraction than actual tanks as they can't really take any damage before being destroyed. However, mirage gives you a great deal more evasion and mobility. It will probably take some practice before it really clicks. But once you get the hang of it you can chain so much damage avoidance with mirage cloaks, teleports, stealth, target breaks, etc. you won't need to be at range with phantasms between you and the boss to survive!

I shared this one about a week ago in another thread, but the first 28 seconds of the video are an excellent example of mirage damage avoidance! You even get a good look at mirage "cheating". Right away I get knocked back by a priest of Balthazar just as the boss begins his pulsing fire wave attack. But being stunned doesn't stop mirage from evading or teleporting, so I still don't take any damage!

Anyway, play what works for you. But I wouldn't write off mirage or melee builds as lacking in survivability. They just work very differently than a ranged phantasm build.

[Seabhac.6824]

Thanks Aliam, I'm really tempted to just push my way through making power Mirage work till I can get Viper,.. just switch and do it.. what are the best weapon combos and best utilities/heal to use with it?

[Myhr.9108]

I'd suggest a Power Mirage using double Swords and Greatswords, but with a full Signet spec, something like this :
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAR8cnsICdohFoBWoBMrhlUD7MKEdqOkDgSQAwPB2AngA-jhA4gAAbAAu+AA-e

You got a nice trait synergy : casting a Phantasm activate a signet, activating signets grants distortion, distortion grants access to ambushes. Signet of Midnight is a short-CD signet, so you have a nice source of Distortion and Ambushes. Signet of Inspiration with the random extra Aegis brings a surprinsingly high amount of survivability, as the Superior Runes of Resistance do. Signet of Illusion is very usefull to recharge your Distortion Shatter skill, which creates lots of mirrors. With main sword, you can go Phantasm/Ambush/Clone/Clone/Blurred Frenzy/Shatter Distortion/Ambush (mirror)/Ambush(mirror)/Ambush(mirror)/Signet of Illusions, and repeat for an incredible Distortion uptime.

The only questionable thing is the elite, Moa Signet has such a long CD...but hey, you have enough tools anyway, just use whatever Elite you want, at least, Moa Signet has a passive effect, imho.

[Seabhac.6824]

Thanks Myhr! another question.. without being able to get Viper right away which would be better, just hold onto my zerker power gear or go with another set and then, considering gold is not a problem, and crafting it is not an option,.. which is better.. Rabid, Dire or Trailblazer?

[Myhr.9108]

I don't use Viper, and with my build, it would definitely not be a good idea, since Sword and Greatsword do not inflict damaging conditions. Go full Berserk, and maybe some pieces with some Toughness if you want more lasting power. In Open world, damage is not as important as in other modes. Basically, try full Berserker, and I'd suggest replace with some Captain stat (only available for jewelry and amulet, though) until you feel comfortable.

Edit : I explained the Sword gameplay when you feel bold enough to melee everything, but you can also spam Greatsword with this build, and let Phantams do the job. Just remember to dodge once in a while to unlock an Ambush, the Greatsword Ambush is surprisingly underrated imho, since it eliminates the most glaring issue with GS auto-attack : you do not need to be at max range to deal lots of damage anymore.

2nd Edit : I just saw your contribution in the other topic, and I just want to point out that people are generally taking meta-builds as a starting point, with the premise that "if it works in the hardest content, it works everywhere", and while it's true, you have so much more freedom in Open World...Mirage is not only for Condi builds. Axe is a condi weapon. A lot of people think that Elite spec = Elite weapon, but that's just not mandatory. The only mandatory trait in Mirage that seems more directed toward Condition builds is Nomad's Endurance, but even so, there is a part of that trait that is useful for any build : Shatter grants Vigor is interesting enough, even on a Power build.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Myhr.9108 said:I don't use Viper, and with my build, it would definitely not be a good idea, since Sword and Greatsword do not inflict damaging conditions. Go full Berserk, and maybe some pieces with some Toughness if you want more lasting power. In Open world, damage is not as important as in other modes. Basically, try full Berserker, and I'd suggest replace with some Captain stat (only available for jewelry and amulet, though) until you feel comfortable.

Edit : I explained the Sword gameplay when you feel bold enough to melee everything, but you can also spam Greatsword with this build, and let Phantams do the job. Just remember to dodge once in a while to unlock an Ambush, the Greatsword Ambush is surprisingly underrated imho, since it eliminates the most glaring issue with GS auto-attack : you do not need to be at max range to deal lots of damage anymore.

2nd Edit : I just saw your contribution in the other topic, and I just want to point out that people are generally taking meta-builds as a starting point, with the premise that "if it works in the hardest content, it works everywhere", and while it's true, you have so much more freedom in Open World...Mirage is not only for Condi builds. Axe is a condi weapon. A lot of people think that Elite spec = Elite weapon, but that's just not mandatory. The only mandatory trait in Mirage that seems more directed toward Condition builds is Nomad's Endurance, but even so, there is a part of that trait that is useful for any build : Shatter grants Vigor is interesting enough, even on a Power build.

Axe was recommended because it was the only ambush that produced great damage. However, since yesterday's patch my preliminary testing indicates nearly a 38% decrease in damage output (against large targets) for the clone ambush axe mirage build. Take that for what it's worth as I only ran one test (avg DPS of 3 large-hitbox kills against a champion I had a video of prior to the patch: 7.3k DPS, down from 11.7k prior to the patch). So, not a raid test, but a solo open world test indicating a massive drop in damage for axe clone ambush builds.

So who knows? Maybe condi mirage is just as bad as power mirage now. There's a reason the meta build used only axe. Now that reason is gone, chances are good raid builds will revert to phantasm-based damage (likely still condi, since power didn't improve) that isn't favored for open world play.

It's a shame. I think they really have something special with axe mirage. The playstyle is super fun, but it definitely loses something when you cut the damage down by more than a third...