idpersona.3810 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 1 minute ago, Kulvar.1239 said: They worked for 6 legendary runes, they have 6 legendary runes. Why would people before SotO who worked for 6 legendary runes get 6 legendary runes +1 legendary relic, but people who do the same work after SotO get 6 legendary runes + 0 legendary relic? I don't actually disagree with this approach. It remains to be seen how the relics will actually be implemented. If they're an account unlock instead of an item, I would just give legendary runeholders access to the current rune's version of relics. For that matter, anyone with 6/6 sets of runes should get the relic version unlocked. That would solve multiple problems with non legendary rune holders as well. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idpersona.3810 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 3 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: You didn’t work for Relics, you worked for Legendary runes which allow freely swapping between any 6/6 Superior Rune Freely. And that’s not being taken away from you. you just want free things Also, as I've stated before. I don't actually have legendary runes. I was set to craft them next (and currently have everything I need). But depending on how this change goes through, they may or may not be worth the 2.2k gold. So I'm waiting. I do however have 25 characters with multiple builds on most of them. I think legendary runes being called out is very worthwhile, but even if I don't craft them, I'm not looking forward to having to redo dungeon runs over and over and over just to farm for relics whose ability I currently have today. That being said, I think most of your arguments are in bad faith and not really worth responding to. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 8 minutes ago, Echo.3725 said: Just going to point out that you literally quoted a quote of ANET stating that they are removing something from runes and putting it into its own equipment slot. Read your quote again and let me know if you still think others are having a hard time reading. Just because something is being added does not change that something got removed. There are also no specifics on your claim to the 6/6 bonus becoming something significant like the current special bonus effects. You are trying to take some sporadic examples that are still in development. We are questioning the entire system, not the specific effects. If you want to nitpick I'll return on the 18th. I have an issue with the relic system as a whole. If it was additive it would be fine. Currently, it removes functionality from an existing system and claims it as its own, as stated by its own announcement. Again any balance change something is “removed” but it’s not it’s being replaced. If it was being removed every time they’ve changed the Runes 6th bonus players like you would’ve been here crying about them removing functionality from legendary runes but you weren’t… I wonder why… The Relics aren’t even get the same bonuses that are on the Runes so again different bonuses from Runes and again you’re not losing any functionality name the function of Legendary Runes you are losing, they only have one singular function 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: Again any balance change something is “removed” False, people wouldn't be complaining like they do about this change if what was rebalanced was simply the numbers on the runes. The issue here isn't that "the rebalance exists" or whatever you're trying to suggest here despite the evidence showing otherwise, it's about cutting functionality and offloading the same/similar effects into new items. 4 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: The Relics aren’t even get the same bonuses that are on the Runes so again different bonuses from Runes And THAT is what the simple "rebalance" is here. Somehow I don't see people complaining that the bonus effect will be different than the current ones. Because, again, the complaint isn't about the "rebalance". You're completely misrepresenting what is being said in this thread to avoid the key issues with this change. Edited July 12, 2023 by Sobx.1758 5 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo.3725 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 3 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: Again any balance change something is “removed” but it’s not it’s being replaced. If it was being removed every time they’ve changed the Runes 6th bonus players like you would’ve been here crying about them removing functionality from legendary runes but you weren’t… I wonder why… The Relics aren’t even get the same bonuses that are on the Runes so again different bonuses from Runes and again you’re not losing any functionality name the function of Legendary Runes you are losing, they only have one singular function After this change, with my superior runes, be able to quickly swap between my special bonus effects without having to acquire a relic for each of my builds that I currently can do this on? - This is the function right here. 4 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 4 minutes ago, idpersona.3810 said: Also, as I've stated before. I don't actually have legendary runes. I was set to craft them next (and currently have everything I need). But depending on how this change goes through, they may or may not be worth the 2.2k gold. So I'm waiting. I do however have 25 characters with multiple builds on most of them. I think legendary runes being called out is very worthwhile, but even if I don't craft them, I'm not looking forward to having to redo dungeon runs over and over and over just to farm for relics whose ability I currently have today. That being said, I think most of your arguments are in bad faith and not really worth responding to. You don’t have the ability of the Relics today, they are coming with different bonuses than what are on Runes currently, so you won’t be farming for something you have today, you would be farming for something different. My arguments aren’t in bad faith, I’m literally stating the facts as they are, others have been arguing in bad faith using irrelevant examples and shock value arguments that aren’t representative of the current situation on Rune Changes, because they just want something for free under the premise of losing Legendary Rune Functionality which again has been proven to not be losing any functionality. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 1 minute ago, Echo.3725 said: After this change, with my superior runes, be able to quickly swap between my special bonus effects without having to acquire a relic for each of my builds that I currently can do this on? - This is the function right here. No the function is swapping between one Superior Rune to a Different Superior Rune free of charge at any time. That is the functionality… and you’re not losing that 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 3 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said: False, people wouldn't be complaining like they do about this change if what was rebalanced was simply the numbers on the runes. The issue here isn't that "the rebalance exists" or whatever you're trying to suggest here despite the evidence showing otherwise, it's about cutting functionality and offloading the same/similar effects into new items. And THAT is what the simple "rebalance" is here. Somehow I don't see people complaining that the bonus effect will be different than the current ones. Because, again, the complaint isn't about the "rebalance". You're completely misrepresenting what is being said in this thread to avoid the key issues with this change. The Runes changes before did more than just change the numbers they completely changed some of the 6th bonuses entirely and there was zero whining. again they did it multiple times both with buffs and nerfs to Runes. This is no different than those times and now they are just equalizing the Runes so the 6th bonus is similar across the board 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo.3725 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 Just now, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: No the function is swapping between one Superior Rune to a Different Superior Rune free of charge at any time. That is the functionality… and you’re not losing that This is the bad faith argument people are calling you out for. Look, Superior Rune rebalancing is different from what is happening, rebalance is +/- a % of currently offered functions. The Function: "the additional special effects or conditional bonuses will be removed entirely." and the "new function": "We’ve split them off into their own build component" The important aspect here that we currently select most of our runes for is separated into relics. Regardless of how these special effects are rebalanced - they are being slotted into a new slot. This loss of function from the runes is the issue. 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: The Runes changes before did more than just change the numbers they completely changed some of the 6th bonuses entirely and there was zero whining. That's.... literally the point, you're just confirming what I said 🙄 Nobody here has an issue simply because there's a rebalance. The issue is with cutting the current functionality and offloading it into new items. Thanks for confirming you understand people aren't somehow crying "because a rebalance happened", but will you now stop repeating that? Doubt. Instead you'll forget you wrote this and continue counting the runes while claiming people complain because rebelance happened. But, as you JUST SAID, that's not the issue and never was. 3 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: This is no different than those times and now they are just equalizing the Runes so the 6th bonus is similar across the board No, there's a substantial difference between "rebalancing" and "offloading old item effects into new items in an attempt to add busy work after people crafted 2k gold items to be done with that busy work". Edited July 12, 2023 by Sobx.1758 5 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 Just now, Echo.3725 said: This is the bad faith argument people are calling you out for. Look, Superior Rune rebalancing is different from what is happening, rebalance is +/- a % of currently offered functions. The Function: "the additional special effects or conditional bonuses will be removed entirely." and the "new function": "We’ve split them off into their own build component" The important aspect here that we currently select most of our runes for is separated into relics. Regardless of how these special effects are rebalanced - they are being slotted into a new slot. This loss of function from the runes is the issue. No they rebalanced Runes by completely changing the 6th effect not only with changing the numbers of the effect slightly. A rebalance can be any change and this is a change that has Runes keep 6 bonuses and isn’t a loss of functionality, your Legendary Rune doesn’t lose any functionality as stated you get to freely swap between any superior rune available and have 6/6 bonuses the change of adding Relics that have different bonuses than Runes, they aren’t the same bonuses current Rune of the Thief and the upcoming Relic of the Thief have completely different bonuses. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said: That's.... literally the point, you're just confirming what I said 🙄 Nobody here has an issue simply because there's a rebalance. The issue is with cutting the current functionality and offloading it into new items. Thanks for confirming you understand people aren't somehow crying "because a rebalance happened". They aren’t cutting the function up the only function of legendary runes is swapping between Superior runes at any time free of charge that function isn’t changing …. It’s a mass rebalance of Rune 6th bonus similar to when they completely changed other Rune 6th Bonuses Relics bonuses aren’t the same as Rune Bonuses they may seem similar by they aren’t the same Edited July 12, 2023 by BlaqueFyre.5678 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 (edited) Thread summary: Anet: Here is a way to get a limitless box of chocolate chip cookies, with all kinds of different chocolate chips. Chocolate Chip Cookie Aficionados: 🖐️🍪🖐️ Anet: We are now taking the chocolate chips out of cookies, you will be able to gain the chocolate chips in our new system. Chocolate Chip Cookie Aficionados: 😡 your new system is cool but you promised us that we would have a limitless box of chocolate chip cookies, please make sure we still have our chips included in limitless box of cookies and not a separate thing that we then have to go reattain. 🤡: You still have a box of limitless cookies, you haven't lost anything. CCCA: No, we had a box of limitless chocolate chip cookies, the chocolate chips themselves being part of the most important part of having that box of limitless chocolate chip cookies and are instead being given back a limitless box of cookies without chocolate chips. 🤡: You still have cookies you haven't lost anything. CCCA: They took our chips. Give us back our chips. 🤡: 🤡 CCCA: 😡 repeat. Edited July 12, 2023 by Lan Deathrider.5910 4 7 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo.3725 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 Just now, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: No they rebalanced Runes by completely changing the 6th effect not only with changing the numbers of the effect slightly. A rebalance can be any change and this is a change that has Runes keep 6 bonuses and isn’t a loss of functionality, your Legendary Rune doesn’t lose any functionality as stated you get to freely swap between any superior rune available and have 6/6 bonuses the change of adding Relics that have different bonuses than Runes, they aren’t the same bonuses current Rune of the Thief and the upcoming Relic of the Thief have completely different bonuses. The Function: "the additional special effects or conditional bonuses will be removed entirely." and the "new function": "We’ve split them off into their own build component" I dunno what else to tell ya - these are direct quotes from ANET - keep burying your head in the sand and good luck. Enjoy spending your time on something you've already accomplished. Personally, I would like to use that time for meaningful exploration or completing the new content. Not rebuilding my builds across all characters and being unable to actively play them in new or instanced content until I can get ahold of these new relics that are definitely not the runes I had a few months ago. 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 45 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said: They don't need to be buffed, that really depends on the way anet wants to solve it. The runes are getting rebalanced anyways, so any runeset that doesn't have simple stat bonus on 6 can result in adding up the stats and dividing them between 6 runes instead of 5 runes. My point was that such runes would have relic access moving forward, so would technically be buffed as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: No they rebalanced Runes by completely changing the 6th effect not only with changing the numbers of the effect slightly. A rebalance can be any change and this is a change that has Runes keep 6 bonuses and isn’t a loss of functionality, your Legendary Rune doesn’t lose any functionality as stated you get to freely swap between any superior rune available and have 6/6 bonuses Rebalance: This runeset now gives 2 potatoes, 3 tomatoes and a bonus 5% bagspace during fullmoon instead of the previous 3cherries, 2 strawberries and a floating glowing orb during daytime. Offloading old effects into "new items" (which means the old item is losing functionality and that functionality is now moved to another item) : This runeset gave 2 potatoes, 3 tomatoes and a bonus 5% bagspace during fullmoon, but now it gives 3 potatoes, 3 tomatoes. NEW ITEM INTRODUCED! Get RELICS with different bonus effects like 5% bagspace during fullmoon! 😮 "same functionality", I guess it means relics didn't steal any functionality and so they have no function at all. 10 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: Relics bonuses aren’t the same as Rune Bonuses they may seem similar by they aren’t the same Ah, so it's the struggle to understand the change because the whole thing happens in the same patch? If they FIRST reworked the 6th rune effects and THEN disconnected it next week to offload into relics, you'd undestand the problem, but since they do it in one sweep it's... totally different? 10 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: They aren’t cutting the function up the only function of legendary runes is swapping between Superior runes at any time free of charge that function isn’t changing No, as I already provided you with what even anet directly said, the functionality of runes is to deliver simple stat bonuses AND bonus effects. After the change they no longer provide bonus effects, this is the functionality they lose. Edited July 12, 2023 by Sobx.1758 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 7 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said: Rebalance: This runeset now gives 2 potatoes, 3 tomatoes and a bonus 5% bagspace during fullmoon instead of the previous 3cherries, 2 strawberries and a floating glowing orb during daytime. Offloading old effects into "new items" (which means the old item is losing functionality and that functionality is now moved to another item) : This runeset gave 2 potatoes, 3 tomatoes and a bonus 5% bagspace during fullmoon, but now it gives 3 potatoes, 3 tomatoes. NEW ITEM INTRODUCED! Get RELICS with different bonus effects like 5% bagspace during fullmoon! 😮 "same functionality", I guess it means relics didn't steal any functionality and so they have no function at all. Ah, so it's the struggle to understand the change because the whole thing happens in the same patch? If they FIRST reworked the 6th rune effects and THEN disconnected it next week to offload into relics, you'd undestand the problem, but since they do it in one sweep it's... totally different? No, as I already provided you with what even anet directly said, the functionality of runes is to deliver simple stat bonuses AND bonus effects. After the change they no longer provide bonus effects, this is the functionality they lose. Again this isn’t the first time they’ve completely changed some runes 6th Bonus through Balance and it’s is just that. Change through balance. And again the Relics have different bonuses than Runes 6th Bonus. the functionality of the Runes haven’t changed they are upgrades for Armor that have 6 bonuses and legendary runes allow swapping freely between all the superior runes with 6 bonuses so there’s zero loss of function. It’s so simple a child could understand that. Again some players are whining to get free things given to them because they think they are special and all their wants should be met. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 13 minutes ago, Echo.3725 said: The Function: "the additional special effects or conditional bonuses will be removed entirely." and the "new function": "We’ve split them off into their own build component" I dunno what else to tell ya - these are direct quotes from ANET - keep burying your head in the sand and good luck. Enjoy spending your time on something you've already accomplished. Personally, I would like to use that time for meaningful exploration or completing the new content. Not rebuilding my builds across all characters and being unable to actively play them in new or instanced content until I can get ahold of these new relics that are definitely not the runes I had a few months ago. Those aren’t Functions as you’re trying to claim… those are attributes of the what those items have…. Again the only function of Runes is Upgrades that slot into armor providing 6 bonuses and Legendary Rune’s function is to Freely swap between available Runes please learn what a function is… 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 16 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said: Thread summary: Anet: Here is a way to get a limitless box of chocolate chip cookies, with all kinds of different chocolate chips. Chocolate Chip Cookie Aficionados: 🖐️🍪🖐️ Anet: We are now taking the chocolate chips out of cookies, you will be able to gain the chocolate chips in our new system. Chocolate Chip Cookie Aficionados: 😡 your new system is cool but you promised us that we would have a limitless box of chocolate chip cookies, please make sure we still have our chips included in limitless box of cookies and not a separate thing that we then have to go reattain. 🤡: You still have a box of limitless cookies, you haven't lost anything. CCCA: No, we had a box of limitless chocolate chip cookies, the chocolate chips themselves being part of the most important part of having that box of limitless chocolate chip cookies and are instead being given back a limitless box of cookies without chocolate chips. 🤡: You still have cookies you haven't lost anything. CCCA: They took our chips. Give us back our chips. 🤡: 🤡 CCCA: 😡 repeat. Sorry but they aren’t taking away your chocolate chips you still get 6 bonuses on runes and the Relic Bonuses aren’t the same bonuses that runes currently have so they aren’t repackaging your chocolate chips separately.. again you can’t even come up with a decent analogy or argument. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: Again this isn’t the first time they’ve completely changed some runes 6th Bonus through Balance and it’s is just that. And, again, nobody complains about that, so your repeated notion about people complainng "because balance change happened" is false. The complaint is about the clear change of functionality just to offload it into "new" separate item. 9 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: the functionality of the Runes haven’t changed they are upgrades for Armor that have 6 bonuses and legendary runes allow swapping freely between all the superior runes with 6 bonuses so there’s zero loss of function. No, as I already provided you with what even anet directly said, the functionality of runes is to deliver simple stat bonuses AND bonus effects. After the change they no longer provide bonus effects, this is the functionality they lose. 5 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: the Relic Bonuses aren’t the same bonuses that runes currently have so they aren’t repackaging your chocolate chips separately.. Ah, so it's the struggle to understand the change because the whole thing happens in the same patch? If they FIRST reworked the 6th rune effects and THEN disconnected it next week to offload into relics, you'd undestand the problem, but since they do it in one sweep it's... totally different? Edited July 12, 2023 by Sobx.1758 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sreoom.3690 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 57 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: but again I get it some players just want to whine and get free things handed to them. 55 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: The whiners are asking for a free item that was never taken from them for free. 48 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: you just want free things @BlaqueFyre.5678 you seem angry and a bit trollish, did someone with legendaries hurt you? 2 7 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said: And, again, nobody complains about that, so your repeated notion about people complainng "because balance change happened" is false. The complaint is about the clear change of functionality just to offload it into "new" separate item. Ah, so it's the struggle to understand the change because the whole thing happens in the same patch? If they FIRST reworked the 6th rune effects and THEN disconnected it next week to offload into relics, you'd undestand the problem, but since they do it in one sweep it's... totally different? No, as I already provided you with what even anet directly said, the functionality of runes is to deliver simple stat bonuses AND bonus effects. After the change they no longer provide bonus effects, this is the functionality they lose. If they did the 6th rune balance change and never mentioned the Relic system at the same time the whiners wouldn’t have said a word, I mentioned this a few posts ago as did another poster, don’t try to use our own argument against us lmao some people be clowning. again legendary runes los zero function please learn what a function is. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 (edited) 1 minute ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: If they did the 6th rune balance change and never mentioned the Relic system at the same time the whiners wouldn’t have said a word, Exactly, because -as already mentioned over and over again- people aren't somehow complaining about the rebalance happening, as opposed to what you repeatedly try to claim in this thread. 1 minute ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: Again legendary runes los zero function please learn what a function is. No, as I already provided you with what even anet directly said, the functionality of runes is to deliver simple stat bonuses AND bonus effects. After the change they no longer provide bonus effects, this is the functionality they lose. I like how you keep avoiding what I write just to repeat "no function lost" without addressing anything. It's... quite telling. Edited July 12, 2023 by Sobx.1758 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 1 minute ago, Sreoom.3690 said: @BlaqueFyre.5678 you seem angry and a bit trollish, did someone with legendaries hurt you? Angry? Nah I’m just explains super simple concepts to people that just want free things given to them. Lmao is that the best you can do is come with attempted insults? If you can’t make a coherent counter argument attack the person, I’m pretty sure I’ve seen that used somewhere before… 1 1 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 Just now, Sobx.1758 said: Exactly, because -as already mentioned over and over again- people aren't somehow complaining about the rebalance happening, as opposed to what you repeatedly try to claim in this thread. They are complaining about the rebalance claiming it as the basis of losing something, if they aren’t losing something if Relics weren’t mentioned then they aren’t losing something with the information of Relics…. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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