Why couldn't SoO give off-hand Axe for Thief too?

[TheThief.8475]

13 hours ago, DeceiverX.8361 said:

They did.  DoubleTap is a DE main.

He was (not at the company anymore) a social media manager, so they had no power over design anyways

[TheThief.8475]

20 hours ago, Doggie.3184 said:

They really should just hire someone already. A Thief specialist.

They really need. Thief is a super bad spot design wise with some specs (DD especially), it looks like they can't figure out how to design around no cooldowns and initiative.

I think they should revisit how steal works in DD (or in core thief also tbh), for example they could add a F3 slot where you choose which of the stolen skills you want to equip and always have that one available for use (with a cooldown or initiative cost), while F1 and F2 stays the same.

F3 would be a new and fundamental part of the kit, as opposed to F2, which is a random ability that you can't integrate in your build and playstile since it is "rng".

F3 could also interact with weapon skills / initiative to create interesting gameplay and rotations (as opposed to our current 2-2-2-2-2-2 rotation).

If it would be too much to add a new slot, I'd just replace the F2 with this new mechanic. Rng stolen skills can be kinda fun in OW, but they are completely useless in 99% of the scenarios.

Let me know what you guys think

[Felices Bladewing.3914]

1 hour ago, TheThief.8475 said:

They really need. Thief is a super bad spot design wise with some specs (DD especially), it looks like they can't figure out how to design around no cooldowns and initiative.

I think they should revisit how steal works in DD (or in core thief also tbh), for example they could add a F3 slot where you choose which of the stolen skills you want to equip and always have that one available for use (with a cooldown or initiative cost), while F1 and F2 stays the same.

F3 would be a new and fundamental part of the kit, as opposed to F2, which is a random ability that you can't integrate in your build and playstile since it is "rng".

F3 could also interact with weapon skills / initiative to create interesting gameplay and rotations (as opposed to our current 2-2-2-2-2-2 rotation).

If it would be too much to add a new slot, I'd just replace the F2 with this new mechanic. Rng stolen skills can be kinda fun in OW, but they are completely useless in 99% of the scenarios.

Let me know what you guys think

i would like the idea that steal actually „steals“ something so maybe boons (baseline without trickery) or even some stats for a specific time. maybe create something new like disarm so you are stealing the weapons of course it needs to be adjusted, right now it is an overloaded shadowstep but nothing you can’t really call a class mechanic compared to others.

changing the interaction with the equiped weapons is something i really like I also think the spamm of the most efficient skill is getting really boring in PvE and even in PvP or WvW there are not many situations where you alter between all 5 weapon skills.

[TheThief.8475]

9 minutes ago, Felices Bladewing.3914 said:

i would like the idea that steal actually „steals“ something so maybe boons (baseline without trickery) or even some stats for a specific time. maybe create something new like disarm so you are stealing the weapons of course it needs to be adjusted, right now it is an overloaded shadowstep but nothing you can’t really call a class mechanic compared to others.

changing the interaction with the equiped weapons is something i really like I also think the spamm of the most efficient skill is getting really boring in PvE and even in PvP or WvW there are not many situations where you alter between all 5 weapon skills.

That would stay indeed, but with an added F3 that you can use to chose a stolen skill to always have and use as part of your kit sounds very cool imo. It gives Thief a lot more flexibility (more ccs, more aoe, self buffs etc) 

[draxynnic.3719]

5 hours ago, TheThief.8475 said:

That would stay indeed, but with an added F3 that you can use to chose a stolen skill to always have and use as part of your kit sounds very cool imo. It gives Thief a lot more flexibility (more ccs, more aoe, self buffs etc) 

It's certainly an interesting concept. There'd have to be limits, otherwise people would probably always have plasma, but it would fit thief well to have some kind of 'favourite stolen item' that they carry a bag of so they can always pull one out when needed.

[TheThief.8475]

18 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

It's certainly an interesting concept. There'd have to be limits, otherwise people would probably always have plasma, but it would fit thief well to have some kind of 'favourite stolen item' that they carry a bag of so they can always pull one out when needed.

plasma was nerfed already, but in my mind only core stolen skills would be selectable (raids stolen skills are op compared to the core ones) 

Edit: raid stolen skills could be balanced to be in line with other skills (and becomin usable outside of raids with the new system), or just removed (they could always balance core skills to fill their gaps)

Edited July 10, 2023 by TheThief.8475

[Rezok.2709]

Because they'd have to design additional skills due to the thief dual skill mechanic. You must understand how impossible that is when they already spend all their time designing four professions worth of skills for the elementalist.

[draxynnic.3719]

19 hours ago, TheThief.8475 said:

plasma was nerfed already, but in my mind only core stolen skills would be selectable (raids stolen skills are op compared to the core ones) 

Edit: raid stolen skills could be balanced to be in line with other skills (and becomin usable outside of raids with the new system), or just removed (they could always balance core skills to fill their gaps)

Consume Plasma, while not quite as infamous as Detonate unless you happen to be a mesmer facing a thief in PvP, is a core stolen skill, and giving yourself all or nearly all boons is a pretty strong effect. So that would probably need to be excluded as well.

[TheThief.8475]

2 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Consume Plasma, while not quite as infamous as Detonate unless you happen to be a mesmer facing a thief in PvP, is a core stolen skill, and giving yourself all or nearly all boons is a pretty strong effect. So that would probably need to be excluded as well.

The duration of those effects is not at all long, so I don't think is a bing problem considering is only self applied, but if they did implement a mechanic like that (selectable stolen skill) they would have to balance the skills anyways.

For how they are now they are so useless and worthless that they don't even deserve to be looked at from a balancing standpoint (and it's sad, considering that steal is "the big" profession mechanic of Thief , and it's totally ineffective in defining Thief gameplay)

Edited July 11, 2023 by TheThief.8475

[Doggie.3184]

On 7/9/2023 at 3:03 PM, TheThief.8475 said:

He was (not at the company anymore) a social media manager, so they had no power over design anyways

Yeah I was actually pretty crushed when I saw DoubleTap running around PvE a bunch on Specter with an Anet tag and was like 'omg Anet on Thief outside of training dummy zone' and then Balance Patch came out with literally 1 line of text for Specter and then nothing for the next. I was like 'how is this possible?' XD Honestly only takes a few moments to see how flawed and limited it's design is, and weapon training brings that further into the light.

There's truly a serious management problem going on in development if one single specific class is completely 100% cut out of balance patches despite having tons of unresolved bugs and issues spanning across years~ clearly Thief needs extra help like a new hire. For example the simple Black Powder > Bounding Dodge bug I keep spamming about cuz it's gamebreaking entire Daredevil builds for several years and about to ruin potential really fun ones in future with Scepter/Pistol and whatever Axe/Pistol will provide. We have a broken Offhand and don't even get a new Offhand weapon to skip it for a different, hopefully not bugged, playstyle. And Deadly Aim trait being probably bugged/designed incorrectly and forgotten about for several years as well.

How many people are even working on these 9 classes total? From the impression I'm getting from communication I'd assume only two. Is that actually true?

[SoftPup.3048]

I saw an Anet tag Daredevil AFK in Arborstone the other day. Now we just need to get them promoted 😄

[Felices Bladewing.3914]

On 7/11/2023 at 9:51 PM, Doggie.3184 said:

Yeah I was actually pretty crushed when I saw DoubleTap running around PvE a bunch on Specter with an Anet tag and was like 'omg Anet on Thief outside of training dummy zone' and then Balance Patch came out with literally 1 line of text for Specter and then nothing for the next. I was like 'how is this possible?' XD Honestly only takes a few moments to see how flawed and limited it's design is, and weapon training brings that further into the light.

There's truly a serious management problem going on in development if one single specific class is completely 100% cut out of balance patches despite having tons of unresolved bugs and issues spanning across years~ clearly Thief needs extra help like a new hire. For example the simple Black Powder > Bounding Dodge bug I keep spamming about cuz it's gamebreaking entire Daredevil builds for several years and about to ruin potential really fun ones in future with Scepter/Pistol and whatever Axe/Pistol will provide. We have a broken Offhand and don't even get a new Offhand weapon to skip it for a different, hopefully not bugged, playstyle. And Deadly Aim trait being probably bugged/designed incorrectly and forgotten about for several years as well.

How many people are even working on these 9 classes total? From the impression I'm getting from communication I'd assume only two. Is that actually true?

I think it is not just black power plus bounding dodge but every combo that grants stealth due to black powder having no cd. 

But else i agree, as long as this combo is available thief cant be buffed otherwise in pvp or wvw which is holding it back in a stupid way.

[Doggie.3184]

On 7/13/2023 at 12:47 PM, Felices Bladewing.3914 said:

I think it is not just black power plus bounding dodge but every combo that grants stealth due to black powder having no cd. 

Not sure what you mean. I just want a bug fixed that has existed for many years and about to spread to Scepter and Axe next. Bounding Dodger needs to have the same combo priority as Heatseeker and always use our personal combo field first over ally's. As long as this bug exists we can't use it in parties for stealth. P/P condi builds entirely revolve around Black Powder > Dodge combo as it's only attack causing me to fly solo at all times as I'm totally locked out of it once 1 single ally throws a combo field on enemy. I'm forced to flee from my ally and use it in distance losing a big chunk of my combo since I can't land Bound on enemy and can't put my leech+blind field on top of them. All Offhand Pistol DD builds, outside of Dagger Mainhand since it has a it's own leap, are anti-social causing your allies to severely kitten you. No skill design should punish the user for having allies.

Once Scepter/Pistol Daredevil is a thing it will be super important for gaining Shadowsquall access and finally give us a good zerg build~ but if we can't use our own combo field because the whole battlefield is covered in them from allies the whole thing's ruined.

[Felices Bladewing.3914]

1 hour ago, Doggie.3184 said:

Not sure what you mean. I just want a bug fixed that has existed for many years and about to spread to Scepter and Axe next. Bounding Dodger needs to have the same combo priority as Heatseeker and always use our personal combo field first over ally's. As long as this bug exists we can't use it in parties for stealth. P/P condi builds entirely revolve around Black Powder > Dodge combo as it's only attack causing me to fly solo at all times as I'm totally locked out of it once 1 single ally throws a combo field on enemy. I'm forced to flee from my ally and use it in distance losing a big chunk of my combo since I can't land Bound on enemy and can't put my leech+blind field on top of them. All Offhand Pistol DD builds, outside of Dagger Mainhand since it has a it's own leap, are anti-social causing your allies to severely kitten you. No skill design should punish the user for having allies.

Once Scepter/Pistol Daredevil is a thing it will be super important for gaining Shadowsquall access and finally give us a good zerg build~ but if we can't use our own combo field because the whole battlefield is covered in them from allies the whole thing's ruined.

oh sorry, I wasnt even aware that this bug was actually in the game. I thought you meant the „way to easy smoke combo“ as a point of criticism.

[Doul.9314]

Anet specializes in disappointing us thieves. It's going to be a new big Meh!

[Chips.7968]

On 6/28/2023 at 12:49 PM, Crey.5263 said:

Why don't thieves also get the OH Axe in addition to their MH?

I understand it would likely require some development 

Yes, yes it would. So no.