About the changes on Runes

[jason.1083]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

That's pretty much what they intend to do:

 

As for being worried that "some will be used and others won't", this is basically bound to happen anyways.

I suppose... 

In one way I really wanted to see runes that I like see the light of day, as I'm sure other people probably want as well, but we can only hope. 

[Jhule.7230]

1 hour ago, jason.1083 said:

Before this seems like another discussion on the Relic feature being horrible and pay to win, making myself clear, it's not.

That doesn't say Im not going to complain about the subject I've just defined by my own wording. It states you are clearly not understanding the concept of P2W and acknowledging that the feature can benefit those that have very little investment into the game.

[Linken.6345]

3 minutes ago, skillze.7689 said:

Of course it is, because they are locking those functions out of everyones builds and changing how legendary runes operate and making some expansion specific. Thats pay2win. You can do all content on just berserker gear and dont need any other things to do it but when you start putting better items behind expansions its p2w

Do you know how to read?

Starting on August 22, everyone’s build will include a relic slot that becomes usable at level 60. Many of the relics that are available to players regardless of expansion ownership.

So you get a relic slot and the relics you have access to will be the core,hot and pof tier 6 rune bonuses.

They might trim out some crap ones that noone would use anyway.

Like rune of the privateer who would want 8 might for 10 seconds cd 60s when you got rune of the pack where u get 5 stacks of might, fury and vigor for 8 seconds cd 30s as an example.

[Sobx.1758]

10 minutes ago, skillze.7689 said:

No one is "derailing" a thread when in his first comment he states "It's not p2w"

I think you misunderstood what they said at the beginning of their post due to how it was worded:

1 hour ago, jason.1083 said:

Before this seems like [another discussion on the Relic feature being horrible and pay to win], making myself clear, it's not. 

When OP said "it is not", it was meant as "it is not [another discussion on the Relic feature being horrible and pay to win] thread". It wasn't an opinion about whether it's good, bad, p2w or not -it was directed at this not being a thread about that.

If he wanted to discuss that, he'd probably just use one of the other threads he's clearly aware of. Instead this is a thread about overal "relic/current 6th rune bonus balance".

Edited July 6, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Jhule.7230]

1 minute ago, Linken.6345 said:

Do you know how to read?

Starting on August 22, everyone’s build will include a relic slot that becomes usable at level 60. Many of the relics that are available to players regardless of expansion ownership.

But then in the same sentence they have said that some will be paywalled behind the expansion. So what are you trying to say those wont be as good and you dont need the expansion to get better functions that already exist in game?

[Geralt.7519]

17 minutes ago, jason.1083 said:

Correct, although from what I understanding you'll get to keep the normal Legendary Runes as you have them, with a normal 6th bonus to compensate, and then probably just get the relic you need, I can't imagine them being expensive in any way, then later they may add a legendary relic, I understand where you coming from, but Idk if it's gonna be that bad. 

Problem is, the only reason to craft leggy runes is to be able to change the set bonus on the fly, not the stats, that is totally going away.

After the change ALL runes will become very cheap because they'll be just stats and you don't change stats in your build as much as you do the set bonus.

Noone in their right mind would spend 2300 gold on top of the hideous provisioner tokens grind when runes are dirt cheap and the real value is on relics.

 

[Sobx.1758]

5 minutes ago, jason.1083 said:

In one way I really wanted to see runes that I like see the light of day, as I'm sure other people probably want as well, but we can only hope. 

Like which ones?

[Jhule.7230]

4 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

I think you misunderstood what they said at the beginning of their post due to how it was worded:

When OP said "it is not", it was meant as "it is not [another discussion on the Relic feature being horrible and pay to win] thread". It wasn't an opinion about whether it's good, bad, p2w or not -it was directed at this not being a thread about that.

If he wanted to discuss that, he'd probably just use one of the other threads he's clearly aware of. Instead this is a thread about overal "relic/current 6th rune bonus balance".

now you're just trying to rephrase whats already written in his post

[jason.1083]

Just now, Geralt.7519 said:

Problem is, the only reason to craft leggy runes is to be able to change the set bonus on the fly, not the stats, that is totally going away.

After the change ALL runes will become very cheap because they'll be just stats and you don't change stats in your build as much as you do the set bonus.

Noone in their right mind would spend 2300 gold on top of the hideous provisioner tokens grind when runes are dirt cheap and the real value is on relics.

 

I guess I never saw it that way, so I suppos legendary runes will become something like attribute infusions, in the sense that they're super expensive, but don't make a big difference, at least mechanics wise. 

[Ashen.2907]

22 minutes ago, skillze.7689 said:

Are you trying to get me to validate your own post showing that relics are locked behind a paywall because some are expansion specfic, can you elaborate on the quote please?

If the ones locked behine expac purchase are superior to those available to all, then yes it will be pay to win. If those so locked are not superior then no it wont be pay to win.

[jason.1083]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Like which ones?

Well, what I really have in mind the most is the rune of the holosmith, but some others like the rune of surging, rune of the pack (which I'm currently using), and rune of earth. 

Specifically the holosmith one because well, clearly I play holosmith, and I have a kind of pure holo build (using sword, and exclusively holosmith utilities, heal and elite) and I am missing one aspect, the laser disc. 

But I'm sure other people have their own favorites that might be in a simmilar position. 

[Jhule.7230]

9 minutes ago, jason.1083 said:

I guess I never saw it that way, so I suppos legendary runes will become something like attribute infusions, in the sense that they're super expensive, but don't make a big difference, at least mechanics wise. 

Finally. thank you for realising what they are trying to do which isnt good for anyone in the long run because if they can do it with expensive items like this imagine the infusions getting nerfed when some cost over 10000gold, for instance you need a full set of infusions to get the visual effects

Edited July 6, 2023 by skillze.7689

[Geralt.7519]

9 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

If the ones locked behine expac purchase are superior to those available to all, then yes it will be pay to win. If those so locked are not superior then no it wont be pay to win.

Since HoT there have always been some mats, stat combos, upgrades, etc. there are only available in xpac content (tho you can buy from TP), does it mean ALL GW2 xpacs are pay-to-win?

[jason.1083]

1 minute ago, skillze.7689 said:

Finally. thank you for realising what they are trying to do which isnt good for anyone in the long run because if they can do it with expensive items like this imagine the infusions getting nerfed when some cost over 10000gold

Relax, you're acting like you spent your life's savings on the game and Anet took it and run away. 

It's not the end of the world, other people manged to actually discuss it much better. 

They are not invalidating runes completely, yes runes are weaker without a 6th bonus, but they still matter. 

And the reason some infusions cost 10k is aesthetics and rarity, not actual functionality. 

 

[Jhule.7230]

Just now, Geralt.7519 said:

Since HoT there have always been some mats, stat combos, upgrades, etc. there are only available in xpac content (tho you can buy from TP), does it mean ALL GW2 xpacs are pay-to-win?

This issue doesnt effect legendary users

[Jhule.7230]

1 minute ago, jason.1083 said:

Relax, you're acting like you spent your life's savings on the game and Anet took it and run away. 

It's not the end of the world, other people manged to actually discuss it much better. 

They are not invalidating runes completely, yes runes are weaker without a 6th bonus, but they still matter. 

And the reason some infusions cost 10k is aesthetics and rarity, not actual functionality. 

 

Please dont tell me what I can and cannot do this forum is for issues that arise from the game changing and not what I should personally do to appease your desires.

[jason.1083]

1 minute ago, skillze.7689 said:

Please dont tell me what I can and cannot do this forum is for issues that arise from the game changing and not what I should personally do to appease your desires.

What? I'm telling you that you're overreacting about this, I'm not telling you what to do, hell you can even organize an assault on Anet HQ to force them to roll back the changes, I'm not gonna stop you. But this is both off topic and overly dramatic. 

[Ashen.2907]

7 minutes ago, Geralt.7519 said:

Since HoT there have always been some mats, stat combos, upgrades, etc. there are only available in xpac content (tho you can buy from TP), does it mean ALL GW2 xpacs are pay-to-win?

IF something provides a meaningful advantage in terms of power and is gated behind a paywall, then I believe it is pay to win, or at  least close enough so that any distinction is largely irrelevant. I don't see mats as pay to win, but paying for character power is.

[Geralt.7519]

24 minutes ago, jason.1083 said:

I guess I never saw it that way, so I suppos legendary runes will become something like attribute infusions, in the sense that they're super expensive, but don't make a big difference, at least mechanics wise. 

Well, infusions at least have some visual effect, runes don't, nor sigils, if they did we could at least say we crafted them for the skin, but we don't have that (not that I would want it, I disable it from leg trinkets lol, but it's just to explain).

[jason.1083]

Just now, Ashen.2907 said:

IF something provides a meaningful advantage in terms of power and is gated behind a paywall, then I believe it is pay to win, or at  least close enough so that any distinction is largely irrelevant. I don't see mats as pay to win, but paying for character power is.

Honestly it's almost impossible to make a game not be pay to win in any way. You need to make every paid thing either add 0 mechanics to the game( so imagine HoT, PoF and EoD having no glider, mounts, skiffs, jadebots) or adding things that are so carefully balanced, and never changed so a new class will just be a esthetically different, and I'm sure no one would like that. 

[jason.1083]

4 minutes ago, Geralt.7519 said:

Well, infusions at least have some visual effect, runes don't, nor sigils, if they did we could at least say we crafted them for the skin, but we don't have that (not that I would want it, I disable it from leg trinkets lol, but it's just to explain).

Yeah same, even my infusions are all the basic agony power infusions, even though I've come across multiple skinned infusions, like the stoneskin, Primordus eye, ghostly, even liquid aurilium. 

Idk though, maybe the runes will keep their value in gold somehow, maybe if and when they add legendary relics the materials will be simmilar. 

They'll probably become less of a priority, but it will definitely be nice to have them. 

Edited July 6, 2023 by jason.1083

[Linken.6345]

17 minutes ago, jason.1083 said:

Honestly it's almost impossible to make a game not be pay to win in any way. You need to make every paid thing either add 0 mechanics to the game( so imagine HoT, PoF and EoD having no glider, mounts, skiffs, jadebots) or adding things that are so carefully balanced, and never changed so a new class will just be a esthetically different, and I'm sure no one would like that. 

Back in the day people did not call expansions pay to win it was pay to keep playing.

And in gw2 we dont even need to do that we can keep playing anyway.

[Geralt.7519]

1 minute ago, Linken.6345 said:

Back in the day people did not call expansions pay to win it was pay to keep playing

It was actually pay to get new content, as it should be.

[jason.1083]

4 minutes ago, Geralt.7519 said:

It was actually pay to get new content, as it should be.

Which works, I don't even think I'd still be playing if not for some expansion features honestly, balancing that new content is always the worst part though, especially with elite specs, sometimes I just think the devs working on a new spec of a proffesion are doing everything in their power to make their spec better than the last one just so they can say theirs is better, but then we end up with op stuff. 

Edited July 6, 2023 by jason.1083

[idpersona.3810]

  

  

22 minutes ago, jason.1083 said:

Idk though, maybe the runes will keep their value in gold somehow, maybe if and when they add legendary relics the materials will be simmilar. 

They'll probably become less of a priority, but it will definitely be nice to have them. 

I doubt they will. Most of a rune sets value comes from that 6th bonus ability. Example: Rune of the Zephrite is 5-9s. Rune of the Revenant is 1g20s. Only difference is that 6th ability. Maybe if they reworked runes to allow us to pick their bonuses at each level it would allow them to keep some value? But without that capstone ability the difference in spending 30s (Zephrite) vs 7.2g (Rev) for the same stats seems...dumb?

The change is to allow for more creative class building I think. But really, there's only a handful of rune combinations that are worthwhile. So it is likely going to be the relic components that will be the more expensive parts of this.
I suppose my golemancer runes might be better afterwards? Switching from ferocity/precision to some power stats version. This assumes a golemancer relic is available. Still kind of up in the air for how specific relics will be acquired.