mesmer bomb vs deadeye in "1shoting"

[Faux Play.6104]

@Maugetarr.6823 said:

@Swagg.9236 said:

@Maugetarr.6823 said:It seems like the same thread just pops up over and over again.

Just a question to those who want it nerfed: what multiplier do you think DJ should have to make it balanced well?

I'm not asking for a maximum damage value, but for the multiplier.

Things like DJ are not "fixable" by just moving numbers around. DJ is part of a pervasive GW2 syndrome of effortless, no-risk attacks. It's bad on a fundamental design level, not on a "let's change this number to make it better" level.

Alright, what mechanics does rifle have that should be changed to make rifle competitive, rewarding, but risky at the same time?

Every weapon doesn't need to be viable in every game mode.

[mulzi.8273]

I do not like one-shots, but the thief one you can see coming and dodge/hide behind something/go invis yourself, etc. The mesmer one is just dumb. Granted they hit 5 skills, but they can do all 5 at once from stealth. I tried each, as well as the reaper one-shot and the SB one. Easy to pull off once or twice, but once you blow your cheese shot, your dead meat...EXCEPT for mesmer who has the tools to easily survive and get away. Real boring to play too, you throw your cheese, run away to reset, then repeat.. blah.

given the lack of balance with these and other 'cheese' builds, and Anet's apparent lack of balancing lately, the easiest thing would be to raise the health pool of each class by 20k. This would promote longer fights, but also alleviate one shots (both thief and mesmer would have to reset for a bit while the cheese rotation is on cd). Would also help a bit soaking more condi ticks with the insane condi meta we currently reside in.

[Maugetarr.6823]

@Faux Play.6104 said:

@Maugetarr.6823 said:

@Swagg.9236 said:

@Maugetarr.6823 said:It seems like the same thread just pops up over and over again.

Just a question to those who want it nerfed: what multiplier do you think DJ should have to make it balanced well?

I'm not asking for a maximum damage value, but for the multiplier.

Things like DJ are not "fixable" by just moving numbers around. DJ is part of a pervasive GW2 syndrome of effortless, no-risk attacks. It's bad on a fundamental design level, not on a "let's change this number to make it better" level.

Alright, what mechanics does rifle have that should be changed to make rifle competitive, rewarding, but risky at the same time?

Every weapon doesn't need to be viable in every game mode.

Ok, but then what mechanics are overperforming right now in PvP that should be nerfed?

[FaboBabo.3581]

@Sismis.5390 said:

@Cynz.9437 said:Are we honestly discussing DE one shot build in pvp? I mean really? They are more liability than one shot rifle war. War can at least live a bit. One shot DE is free points all game and causes 4v5. In pvp there are walls, there is team that supports and can rez you. In PvP we don't have multipliers of WvW nor mindless 1-spammers (at least at higher ratings). In PvP at certain rating there are enemy thieves that will farm your DE 24/7. They cant even hold point nor roam because their mobility is non-existent. Every time i met DE in match i knew we gonna win it because it was 5v4 and i play flippin core build, that speaks volumes about DE.

DE is trash. In every single game mode. Period.

You want nerf to DE/DJ? Please. Do it. Maybe then Anet will buff other aspects of the spec and make it finally a viable pick, at least for competitive part of the game.

The funny part is the guy came here Theory crafting how Deadeye is OP and 1 shoots people.Then he pulled a WvW video and insisted that people in sPvP get 1 shooted.Then in argument with Sephiroth he changed his statement 2-3 times.Then saying deadeye is not anymore 1 shooting and its still op.While we in sPvP beg to get a deadeye in enemy team to have a 5vs4 games and get free kills.Such irony but hey its bronze league season so....Deadeye might de a god of arena for some players this season..

Well seems like u missed 50% of the Conversation ;)

U won't do it but, take 30 min time, reread the conversation, look at edit stamps etc.

Me and sepiroth were cool in the end.

I never changed my statement in the discussion.I am not the OP. I never said DE is op, i said DJ hitting for 20k+ is unhealthy.

[FaboBabo.3581]

@mulzi.8273 said:I do not like one-shots, but the thief one you can see coming and dodge/hide behind something/go invis yourself, etc. The mesmer one is just kitten. Granted they hit 5 skills, but they can do all 5 at once from stealth. I tried each, as well as the reaper one-shot and the SB one. Easy to pull off once or twice, but once you blow your cheese shot, your dead meat...EXCEPT for mesmer who has the tools to easily survive and get away. Real boring to play too, you throw your cheese, run away to reset, then repeat.. blah.

given the lack of balance with these and other 'cheese' builds, and Anet's apparent lack of balancing lately, the easiest thing would be to raise the health pool of each class by 20k. This would promote longer fights, but also alleviate one shots (both thief and mesmer would have to reset for a bit while the cheese rotation is on cd). Would also help a bit soaking more condi ticks with the insane condi meta we currently reside in.

Yeah mesmer is insanely safe. F4 and dodges like every other class and dodges and blink for example , oh no was used to engage. Nvm we have torch 4 Stealth - wait was used to engage too?But our new skill illusionary ambush !

Now DE

1500 Range , perma stealth.

I took the 10 minutes Today , rolled a thief and went to pvp. Checked out Stealth mechanics for 10 minutes and i was ready to go.

Stealth at beginning , went far , some stealth , marked one , some stealth , more stealth , 7 malice stacks - boom 20k crit.

Was really hard not getting caught while perma stealthed...

[Faux Play.6104]

I think > @Maugetarr.6823 said:

@Faux Play.6104 said:

@Maugetarr.6823 said:

@Swagg.9236 said:

@Maugetarr.6823 said:It seems like the same thread just pops up over and over again.

Just a question to those who want it nerfed: what multiplier do you think DJ should have to make it balanced well?

I'm not asking for a maximum damage value, but for the multiplier.

Things like DJ are not "fixable" by just moving numbers around. DJ is part of a pervasive GW2 syndrome of effortless, no-risk attacks. It's bad on a fundamental design level, not on a "let's change this number to make it better" level.

Alright, what mechanics does rifle have that should be changed to make rifle competitive, rewarding, but risky at the same time?

Every weapon doesn't need to be viable in every game mode.

Ok, but then what mechanics are overperforming right now in PvP that should be nerfed?

Instant cast skills. Some classes have too many of them.

Fast health regen when you drop combat.

Overall I think damage is a little too high, but I'd rather have that then healing/defense being too strong.

[Maugetarr.6823]

@Faux Play.6104 said:I think > @Maugetarr.6823 said:

@Faux Play.6104 said:

@Maugetarr.6823 said:

@Swagg.9236 said:

@Maugetarr.6823 said:It seems like the same thread just pops up over and over again.

Just a question to those who want it nerfed: what multiplier do you think DJ should have to make it balanced well?

I'm not asking for a maximum damage value, but for the multiplier.

Things like DJ are not "fixable" by just moving numbers around. DJ is part of a pervasive GW2 syndrome of effortless, no-risk attacks. It's bad on a fundamental design level, not on a "let's change this number to make it better" level.

Alright, what mechanics does rifle have that should be changed to make rifle competitive, rewarding, but risky at the same time?

Every weapon doesn't need to be viable in every game mode.

Ok, but then what mechanics are overperforming right now in PvP that should be nerfed?

Instant cast skills. Some classes have too many of them.

Fast health regen when you drop combat.

Overall I think damage is a little too high, but I'd rather have that then healing/defense being too strong.

So not necessarily rifle, or thief, but across the board cuts. If every class were going to be nerfed simultaneously, I wouldn't care too much about it, but these threads tend to pop up on thief and mesmer specifically. For the most part, I'd rather not see most classes nerfed specifically at this point. I wouldn't mind a change to the ramp time of condi, but on a skill by skill basis, I don't think the overall damage is too high.

I think we actually agree on the damage over bunker part.

[sephiroth.4217]

@KrHome.1920 said:

@ArcanistSeven.8720 said:if your getting hit by DJ which is highly telegraphed you deserve to die its your fault for not paying attention and blowing all your dodges and blocks a rifle DE is one of the most easiest things to kill in pvp.You don't get the point... teamfights, quickness DJs, mind games, 1 missed dodge = dead is bad design... so much viable critisim you ignore completely.

I think he's trying to point out that DJ has about 3 tells that you're about to get shot....

"position acquired" - you hear this when a sniper takes position near you some where.You get hit my the mark, possibly boon ripped and dazed.A big red laser aims at your character.(the basic build most people have been going with anyway, haven't seen too many run D/D weapons with bas venom and stun on first hit trait but they don't run rifles)

I'm not defending DE, I barely even play it but DJ has quite a few tells and is extremely hard countered by one aura share tempest. It's a pure gimmick build that can hit really hard but that's about it. Does well on some maps like Legacy where you have the cliffs and pillars around mid point and you can retain point control via range but falters severely on Nhifel, Temple and other close quarter maps.

This is a little off topic, how come no one ever complains about dagger storm combined with signet heal? I can post a video if you don't know what I mean but currently using dagger storm with healing signet equipped will give you a full heal + tank any hits you take and put you back at full health while also dealing large amounts of AoE damage and reflecting projectiles..... That seems a bit more broken than DJ.

EDIT:

Video of Healing using Daggerstorm. Not the right set up or build but to give an idea. I'm pretty sure this is a bug though.

[Morwath.9817]

Oooooow, my eye! Quaggan took bullet in eye!

@ArcanistSeven.8720 said:if your getting hit by DJ which is highly telegraphed you deserve to die its your fault for not paying attention and blowing all your dodges and blocks a rifle DE is one of the most easiest things to kill in pvp.

Quaggan disagrees, no 1200 range skill should be able to one shot another player in game where team fights happen, its not 1v1 game. While DJ burst seems to be a bit too stronk, Quaggan believes entire Rifle skillset deserves reworks, sadly it can't be on pair with Ranger Longbow, because Thief can have too much stealth and mobility, so probably reworking it into support weapon is the only way.

[Rezzet.3614]

De vs mesmer i say mesmer is the one that needs a nerf, DJ is a one trick pony while mesmers unleash a diarhea of nonstop bursts while spamming stealth and distortion

[babazhook.6805]

@Morwath.9817 said:Oooooow, my eye! Quaggan took bullet in eye!

@ArcanistSeven.8720 said:if your getting hit by DJ which is highly telegraphed you deserve to die its your fault for not paying attention and blowing all your dodges and blocks a rifle DE is one of the most easiest things to kill in pvp.

Quaggan disagrees, no 1200 range skill should be able to one shot another player in game where team fights happen, its not 1v1 game. While DJ burst seems to be a bit too stronk, Quaggan believes entire Rifle skillset deserves reworks, sadly it can't be on pair with Ranger Longbow, because Thief can have too much stealth and mobility, so probably reworking it into support weapon is the only way.

Again you should qualify the statement "no 1200 range skill should be able to one ahot another player in game".

What exactly do you mean by this? Does this apply to a person in 2118 armor with 11k health being on the end of a Rapid Fire or Gunflame or a number of other skills that will down him instantly at range or do you intend that this statement applies only to persons using heavier armors and with higher health pools?

If the latter , then other balance issues are created. Not only is that skill easily dodged with its tell and not only does it eat up half of the INI that a thief has , but the ability to inflict damage at range is one of the few things able to keep the Scourge in check.