Ways to help people integrate into the community (originally about mentor program idea scrapped)

[Mistwraithe.3106]

12 hours ago, Infinity.2876 said:

I agree that mentor tags should be about "mentoring" however there should also be a "I need help with this achievement" tag that you can use to call people from the map to help you with difficult events that not many people do regularly. This was immensely helpful for doing the events for both griffon and skyscale.

I was reading this thread and thinking what's really needed is a way for new players to say they would like some help (yes they can type in map chat, but that does require a bit more confidence than turning a tag on). Then I saw your message, so we think alike.

I would be very much behind a "I Need Help" tag. I think that would be much better than trying to improve usage of the mentor tag.

When I'm playing GW I'm not usually sitting there thinking "I want to help someone". It's far more reactive, if I see someone who seems to need help then I'm happy to help. However, you often can't tell if someone needs help unless they are in down state.

So a better way of knowing when other players need help would go a long way to increasing how much mentoring happened.

(Of course, this could end up in a situation where 20 people in each zone have the "I Need Help" tag up all the time at which point everyone just ignores the tag. So it might not work out, but it's worth considering further and perhaps trialing).

[SinisterSlay.6973]

23 hours ago, Mistwraithe.3106 said:

I was reading this thread and thinking what's really needed is a way for new players to say they would like some help (yes they can type in map chat, but that does require a bit more confidence than turning a tag on). Then I saw your message, so we think alike.

I would be very much behind a "I Need Help" tag. I think that would be much better than trying to improve usage of the mentor tag.

When I'm playing GW I'm not usually sitting there thinking "I want to help someone". It's far more reactive, if I see someone who seems to need help then I'm happy to help. However, you often can't tell if someone needs help unless they are in down state.

So a better way of knowing when other players need help would go a long way to increasing how much mentoring happened.

(Of course, this could end up in a situation where 20 people in each zone have the "I Need Help" tag up all the time at which point everyone just ignores the tag. So it might not work out, but it's worth considering further and perhaps trialing).

An I need help drop would be good.  Players are given an unlimited use SOS item or ability at the start, using it drops flares on the ground and a very large circle.  If the player leaves the circle too long, the flares disappear.  As long as the flare is up, it shows on the map for everyone that someone needs help.  Ideally you can drop this flare once downed or even dead so someone knows to come revive you.

Edited July 20, 2023 by SinisterSlay.6973

[jason.1083]

1 hour ago, SinisterSlay.6973 said:

An I need help drop would be good.  Players are given an unlimited use SOS item or ability at the start, using it drops flares on the ground and a very large circle.  If the player leaves the circle too long, the flares disappear.  As long as the flare is up, it shows on the map for everyone that someone needs help.  Ideally you can drop this flare once downed or even dead so someone knows to come revive you.

The map chat is good enough for people who need help, they can provide much info about what they need help with. An SOS button or anything like that will be weird for new players and might even end up be confusing/annoying. 

Personally I don't mind help requests on map chat, if it's just a question usually most people are eager to reply, sometimes maybe a bit too many, to the point where map chat clutters with replies to that question for a few minutes. 

I don't even think the mentor tag is really needed honestly, I never use it, yet I've helped hundreds of people through the years I've been playing and I few of them I mentored long-term. People don't look for a tag or a sign on the map, they look for anyone who can help, the mentor tag doesn't mean much. 

[Stelawrat.6589]

On 7/18/2023 at 12:39 PM, Sobx.1758 said:

Yeah, I also think finding a guild "relevant to the content of your interest" would be a better solution here. As far as I know these can help you find some:
-in lfg, sometimes there are guilds recruiting in "guild tab"
-https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/forum/30-looking-for-guild/
-and a site I recently learned about (accidentally, through map chat 😉) https://gw2.guildex.org/guilds/na (try using filters)

 

On 7/18/2023 at 12:43 PM, FaithlessZealot.9254 said:

I'll try I appreciate you being patient with me. I probably made myself look like a complete tit here so I'm feeling a bit awkward but I do often find it difficult to express myself. I also think that maybe my standards for finding "The Perfect Guild" are a little too high cos been trying for a couple of years and haven't found any that really suited me well.

@Sobx - I'm not tech savvy at all, but boy, it would be great if this type of Guild Finder utility could be integrated into the existing UI. I realize there must be copyright issues & most likely the UI is suffering from bloat as it is, but wonder if maybe, our hard working Wiki team could create something along the same lines. Imagine being able to access this tool while in-game with the typical /wiki command. So neat! 😄 

@Faithless - I read everything that you wrote in this thread & from my pov, I totally appreciate your honesty, how you expressed yourself, how genuine you are. Many years ago, in a previous much loved game, I was a member of a guild & enjoyed that experience so much, no discord, no voice comms, just plain ordinary chat, so much fun. 

I've been playing GW2 for ~ 6 years now & have yet to find that connection. Have played solo much of that time as a result. It's not because I'm overly shy, or unable to properly express myself. I suspect it's that the game itself is so deep, that even after 6 years I'm still so ignorant about much of its features, its gameplay, that it makes me feel stupid & why the heck would I expose my stupidity in plain sight of any guildies?? 😕

Coincidentally, I recently joined a guild for solo players & while I appreciate having access to the GH etc., it gave me the incentive to push myself out of my comfort zone & just yesterday I requested an invite, which was accepted today, to a "regular" guild. I may get back to you on that! 😛 

[FaithlessZealot.9254]

1 hour ago, Stelawrat.6589 said:

 

@Sobx - I'm not tech savvy at all, but boy, it would be great if this type of Guild Finder utility could be integrated into the existing UI. I realize there must be copyright issues & most likely the UI is suffering from bloat as it is, but wonder if maybe, our hard working Wiki team could create something along the same lines. Imagine being able to access this tool while in-game with the typical /wiki command. So neat! 😄 

@Faithless - I read everything that you wrote in this thread & from my pov, I totally appreciate your honesty, how you expressed yourself, how genuine you are. Many years ago, in a previous much loved game, I was a member of a guild & enjoyed that experience so much, no discord, no voice comms, just plain ordinary chat, so much fun. 

I've been playing GW2 for ~ 6 years now & have yet to find that connection. Have played solo much of that time as a result. It's not because I'm overly shy, or unable to properly express myself. I suspect it's that the game itself is so deep, that even after 6 years I'm still so ignorant about much of its features, its gameplay, that it makes me feel stupid & why the heck would I expose my stupidity in plain sight of any guildies?? 😕

Coincidentally, I recently joined a guild for solo players & while I appreciate having access to the GH etc., it gave me the incentive to push myself out of my comfort zone & just yesterday I requested an invite, which was accepted today, to a "regular" guild. I may get back to you on that! 😛 

Admittedly when I started this topic I wasn't in a great headspace I'm still not and upon self-reflection I was kind of making the assumption there are more people like myself who may not be the greatest at socialising but still want to both out of necessity because I mean it's life we have to to get anywhere and at a small degree desire because, although I prefer my own company 95% of the time that 5% I'm currently missing. Map chat often feels overwhelming to me and at least in my case, I tend to prefer one on one encounters or smaller groups of at most 4 which I've at least known for a bit 2 weeks minimum. It's annoying to be this picky but also desire this it's hard to describe and I thought rather than whining about how I suck at socialising I tried (and perhaps, failed) at creating a thread to change to game to hide the fact I feel insecure about my inability to socialise.

[robertthebard.8150]

9 minutes ago, FaithlessZealot.9254 said:

Admittedly when I started this topic I wasn't in a great headspace I'm still not and upon self-reflection I was kind of making the assumption there are more people like myself who may not be the greatest at socialising but still want to both out of necessity because I mean it's life we have to to get anywhere and at a small degree desire because, although I prefer my own company 95% of the time that 5% I'm currently missing. Map chat often feels overwhelming to me and at least in my case, I tend to prefer one on one encounters or smaller groups of at most 4 which I've at least known for a bit 2 weeks minimum. It's annoying to be this picky but also desire this it's hard to describe and I thought rather than whining about how I suck at socialising I tried (and perhaps, failed) at creating a thread to change to game to hide the fact I feel insecure about my inability to socialise.

The thing is, it's hard to know people for a couple of weeks unless you put yourself out there to meet people.  My solution to this in other games was to group up with people running stuff that I was wanting to run, and seeing how we get along.  I was in the same guild in DDO for over 7 years, and I met them in a quest that went pear shaped early, and stayed that way the whole time, but everyone was having a good time laughing and pointing at the dead people, which made the whole situation fun, instead of stressful.  However, w/out taking the risk to get to know people, it's hard to do anything like that.

[FaithlessZealot.9254]

6 minutes ago, robertthebard.8150 said:

The thing is, it's hard to know people for a couple of weeks unless you put yourself out there to meet people.  My solution to this in other games was to group up with people running stuff that I was wanting to run, and seeing how we get along.  I was in the same guild in DDO for over 7 years, and I met them in a quest that went pear shaped early, and stayed that way the whole time, but everyone was having a good time laughing and pointing at the dead people, which made the whole situation fun, instead of stressful.  However, w/out taking the risk to get to know people, it's hard to do anything like that.

In the past I feel this was the case but, nowadays you run most pug groups nobody wants to talk they just want to get the content over and done with. That's been my experience especially on WoW NOBODY talks to you on that game it is super anti-social. I do put myself out there just not all the time because at least for me it's super exhausting.

Edited July 20, 2023 by FaithlessZealot.9254

[robertthebard.8150]

2 hours ago, FaithlessZealot.9254 said:

In the past I feel this was the case but, nowadays you run most pug groups nobody wants to talk they just want to get the content over and done with. That's been my experience especially on WoW NOBODY talks to you on that game it is super anti-social. I do put myself out there just not all the time because at least for me it's super exhausting.

Sure, you're going to get those groups.  However, it's impossible to integrate into a community if you're being introverted.  It doesn't matter if someone has a tag on or not, if you're not willing to take a chance on getting to know people.  Not every MMO is like WoW.

[Khisanth.2948]

Chat? Meh ... that would be the low effort option I guess. In another game I am playing they have a decent system for this despite being a solo game 99% of the time. The system allows would be mentors to include stuff like when they play and what they play. This shows up when someone searches for a mentor. There are weekly tasks to do together for the mentor and mentee which gives a currency(only to the mentor) that has both general materials as well as some exclusive skins and decorations. As the weekly tasks are completed the mentee progresses towards graduation and the tasks end after that. IIRC each mentor can have 3 mentees. There is a slight nudge towards this system in the form of achievements. One for getting a mentor the other one for listing yourself as a mentor. In the case of GW2 those can go into the character guide achievements.

[Mistwraithe.3106]

21 hours ago, jason.1083 said:

The map chat is good enough for people who need help, they can provide much info about what they need help with. An SOS button or anything like that will be weird for new players and might even end up be confusing/annoying.

I agree. Map chat works very well so long as people use it.

My point was essentially that some people lack confidence to use map chat (pretty much confirmed by OP) and a "I need help" button is likely to require less courage to use (I think it would often lead to using chat to talk to those who come to help, possibly just in local Say chat, which is good thing as it would help improve confidence in using chat with other players in general).

Actually, one other point. A "I need help" tag would provide location information which is a significant advantage over map chat. It can be hard to know where someone is and how to meet up via just chat, particularly if the person who needs help is new and doesn't know the zone well.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Mistwraithe.3106

[jason.1083]

1 hour ago, Mistwraithe.3106 said:

I agree. Map chat works very well so long as people use it.

My point was essentially that some people lack confidence to use map chat (pretty much confirmed by OP) and a "I need help" button is likely to require less courage to use (I think it would often lead to using chat to talk to those who come to help, possibly just in local Say chat, which is good thing as it would help improve confidence in using chat with other players in general).

Actually, one other point. A "I need help" tag would provide location information which is a significant advantage over map chat. It can be hard to know where someone is and how to meet up via just chat, particularly if the person who needs help is new and doesn't know the zone well.

I'm thinking maybe the game should actually promote the mentoring LFG. It's pretty much always empty, and I think it's definitely a more direct way for someone to ask/offer help than map chat. 

I do still stand by my point that a "help button" won't be the best solution, especially if it has a map indicator since it will confuse other new players and honestly it will only add one more mechanic for them to ask what's it about, and we already have enough of those. 

About the newbies not having the courage to talk in map chat, the best solution we got to that is to keep map chat rolling at a decent(not overwhelming) pace with less than serious or end game related conversation. But obviously you can't really control that. That's why I think the game should actually promote the mentoring LFG. Probably right after the tutorial you should get a pop up briefly showing you what it's about, and specifically pointing out that tab. 

If new players start using it we'll also start posting on it as stand-by mentors. 

[SinisterSlay.6973]

21 hours ago, jason.1083 said:

I'm thinking maybe the game should actually promote the mentoring LFG. It's pretty much always empty, and I think it's definitely a more direct way for someone to ask/offer help than map chat. 

I do still stand by my point that a "help button" won't be the best solution, especially if it has a map indicator since it will confuse other new players and honestly it will only add one more mechanic for them to ask what's it about, and we already have enough of those. 

About the newbies not having the courage to talk in map chat, the best solution we got to that is to keep map chat rolling at a decent(not overwhelming) pace with less than serious or end game related conversation. But obviously you can't really control that. That's why I think the game should actually promote the mentoring LFG. Probably right after the tutorial you should get a pop up briefly showing you what it's about, and specifically pointing out that tab. 

If new players start using it we'll also start posting on it as stand-by mentors. 

Map chat is the worst solution.  It's literally not a solution at all.  It's the absence of a solution and new players are just expected, while on a f2p account, to be able to and to know to call out to map chat their exact location, while fighting.  Ridiculous when it could be a properly explained mechanic to call for help that would make new players feel more welcome.  The game should not require tribal knowledge.

 

Now of course I realize these boards hate any form of change what so ever.  Someone probably complaining the skill bar moved a few pixels.  All change, good or bad is met with hostility here.  So I take every response in that light, that it's just people raging because they want their favorite game to never change, be frozen in time.  

Edited July 22, 2023 by SinisterSlay.6973

[robertthebard.8150]

2 hours ago, SinisterSlay.6973 said:

Map chat is the worst solution.  It's literally not a solution at all.  It's the absence of a solution and new players are just expected, while on a f2p account, to be able to and to know to call out to map chat their exact location, while fighting.  Ridiculous when it could be a properly explained mechanic to call for help that would make new players feel more welcome.  The game should not require tribal knowledge.

 

Now of course I realize these boards hate any form of change what so ever.  Someone probably complaining the skill bar moved a few pixels.  All change, good or bad is met with hostility here.  So I take every response in that light, that it's just people raging because they want their favorite game to never change, be frozen in time.  

It's odd that you feel that way.  When I first started playing Aion, in the 2nd closed beta, I used map chat a lot when I wasn't sure what I was supposed to be doing.  I did the same in Rappelz, and swtor, and Neverwinter, and ESO, and even here.  When I'm not in a guild or legion, and I need help, map chat is the first thing I think of, because it's pretty much universal, most MMOs have a map chat where one can seek assistance.  It's pretty much why it's there.

[jason.1083]

2 hours ago, SinisterSlay.6973 said:

Map chat is the worst solution.  It's literally not a solution at all.  It's the absence of a solution and new players are just expected, while on a f2p account, to be able to and to know to call out to map chat their exact location, while fighting.  Ridiculous when it could be a properly explained mechanic to call for help that would make new players feel more welcome.  The game should not require tribal knowledge.

 

Now of course I realize these boards hate any form of change what so ever.  Someone probably complaining the skill bar moved a few pixels.  All change, good or bad is met with hostility here.  So I take every response in that light, that it's just people raging because they want their favorite game to never change, be frozen in time.  

I'm not against change, I'm not against relics, or the new skyscale acquisition method, Or anythings of the sort. I specifically think that an SOS button is not the solution to the problem, as a new player it will feel dumb to use it, or we'll end up having 100 pings around our maps calling out for help all the time, which will be simply annoying. 

Even what I said about the LFG could be seen as a change, just a more logical one in my opinion.