Would a merchant gizmo providing cheap/free versions of base relics be a good reward for collecting legendary runes?

[PseudoNewb.5468]

Quote

Why only "progress towards," rather than rewarding the relic itself? 

• The relic will need to be unlocked separately because relics will have new abilities beyond those covered by runes previously, and the legendary relic will be capable of expanding with new relic releases.

Since Anet wants the future legendary rune to be an expanding with future effect expansions, as all legendaries do, I was thinking of a way that legendary rune/relic progressions could be integrated and provide partial legendary functionality for people who have pursued these legendary crafting trees. The idea is that collection of 6 legendary runes, which will provide significant progress towards the legendary relic can be a precursor item, but also be an item that also acts as a gizmo that provides partial legendary relic functionality.

Partial legendary relic functionality could be an item that dispenses versions of all the base relics that can't be salvaged or forged. Lets call them ethereal relics that can't be turned into any other material. This would allow a player to fill their inventory with their preferred relics for each character, and then the functionality of swapping relics will work quite easily in the existing gear loadout. If a player needed to get a different relic for experimenting or because they cleared their inventory for space, they would have to fish out this item to re-buy the missing relics. This may be a bit of a hassle, but would provide the player ethereal relic replacements with no or minimal economic cost.

Significant progress towards an new legendary relic can be easily provided as a placeholder precursor item, even if the legendary item and recipe sheet isn't fully finalized. The costs of alternate ways of obtaining the precursor, the cost of obtaining the other components, and the final legendary functionality can be determined at a later dates. So it seems like the precursor and this gizmo can be one and the same item. This shouldn't be a problem for the systems in the current game, as there are existing gizmo's that can be put in the mystic forge as evidenced by the  Gleam of Sentience crafting tree. One the legendary relic is crafted, the player would have no need of the ethereal relic merchant so it it ok for it to be consumed in this manner.

I don't have a set of legendary armor or legendary runes right now, nor do I have an infinite upgrade extractor, so I am at the mercy of destroying runes or expensive consumables to change runes on my gear. Personally I am happy that this new slot means I can swap out those effects without destroying anything. But other players, does this merchant gizmo seem like a good replacement for not being able to get the 6th slot effect on legendary runes?

Game systems wise, this precursor/gizmo doesn't seem like it would push the game to do unheard of thins, and it seems like it would be quite safe to implement. An achievement could tracks the number of legendary runes you have, just like twice-told legend tracks if the player have 2 of the same legendary. This achievement can reward the precursor/gizmo at 6 runes the some bonus materials or something at 7 runes. In the future there can be alternate ways to get this precursor if only the legendary relic is desired. It seems like this gizmo could be implemented quickly as it is just a merchant, and a second version of all the base relic (this does add more item ids, but I don't think that is a big deal). So it could be given far in advance of the full development of the legendary relic. In my opinion this wouldn't be a huge burden or risk to the game to develop. Does anyone else think there might be problems with this?

Regardless of any of the Ideas out there, it is up to Anet to ultimately figure out what they want to do. I just want to provide some ideas and suggestions and see what people think.

[Dark Red Killian.3946]

I stated this in a different thread:

“Make a special vendor for people who have all 7 lege runes. Allow free relic purchasing for all the current effects. You can buy as many as you need for all characters on your account. This way we get what we need, when legendary relics come out, we can make that, and it allows access to all relics going forward.“

just allowing use to choose 3 relics is not enough. This means at most you can gear 3 characters. For many with the legendaries, we have a dozen or so characters with variety of builds; the reason we got legendaries is to be able to gear and experiment without restraint. Seeing the backlash from other players comments, this solution would be the most effective way to give the players what they need so you can keep some of your most loyal players. Otherwise, I’ve seen many people saying they are leaving the game because of this.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

1 hour ago, Dark Red Killian.3946 said:

I stated this in a different thread:

“Make a special vendor for people who have all 7 lege runes. Allow free relic purchasing for all the current effects. You can buy as many as you need for all characters on your account. This way we get what we need, when legendary relics come out, we can make that, and it allows access to all relics going forward.“

just allowing use to choose 3 relics is not enough. This means at most you can gear 3 characters. For many with the legendaries, we have a dozen or so characters with variety of builds; the reason we got legendaries is to be able to gear and experiment without restraint. Seeing the backlash from other players comments, this solution would be the most effective way to give the players what they need so you can keep some of your most loyal players. Otherwise, I’ve seen many people saying they are leaving the game because of this.

From  https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/134203-relics-bring-new-equipment-to-guild-wars-2-secrets-of-the-obscure/#comment-1946697

•  Is the relic choice box granted to each character over level 60, or do you get one per account?  
  • The relic choice box is granted per character.

[Kranlor Greyhelm.8417]

I've said this before as well. This is the absolute minimum they need to do, and they need to announce it quickly. It needs to be in place between the start of the expansion and when the legendary relic is available. And they need to make it absolutely 100% clear that either 6 or 7 legendary runes will give you 100% of what you need for the legendary relic, with no additional effort or materials required. And if it is 7, they need to make it clear what the material difference will be between the partial completion for 6 runes and the full version, so players can make an educated choice about which option to go for.

Oh, and the vendor needs to be free. Zero cost.

Anything else, and they've broken the trust of players who've put the time and materials into legendaries. That trust will be gone for good.

These politician style announcements need to stop. Tell us facts, or say nothing. You keep giving us posts that pretend to tell us useful information while saying nothing.

[Batalix.2873]

On 7/22/2023 at 7:58 AM, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

I've said this before as well. This is the absolute minimum they need to do, and they need to announce it quickly. It needs to be in place between the start of the expansion and when the legendary relic is available. And they need to make it absolutely 100% clear that either 6 or 7 legendary runes will give you 100% of what you need for the legendary relic, with no additional effort or materials required. And if it is 7, they need to make it clear what the material difference will be between the partial completion for 6 runes and the full version, so players can make an educated choice about which option to go for.

Oh, and the vendor needs to be free. Zero cost.

Anything else, and they've broken the trust of players who've put the time and materials into legendaries. That trust will be gone for good.

These politician style announcements need to stop. Tell us facts, or say nothing. You keep giving us posts that pretend to tell us useful information while saying nothing.

This is kind of delusionally entitled? They need to incentivize all players, leggy runes or not, to invest in the leggy relic.

The minimal cost of needing to use a vendor for no gold, currency, or other mats does nothing to solidify the leggy relic's place in the game.

Heavily enabling leggy rune players to get a leggy relic is clearly the way to go, it's one of the few decisions (in a general sense, we haven't seen specific implementation) that I actually agree with given the fact that relics are decidedly happening.

[Kranlor Greyhelm.8417]

1 hour ago, Batalix.2873 said:

This is kind of delusionally entitled? They need to incentivize all players, leggy runes or not, to invest in the leggy relic.

The minimal cost of needing to use a vendor for no gold, currency, or other mats does nothing to solidify the leggy relic's place in the game.

Heavily enabling leggy rune players to get a leggy relic is clearly the way to go, it's one of the few decisions (in a general sense, we haven't seen specific implementation) that I actually agree with given the fact that relics are decidedly happening.

In what planet is this "delusionally entitled"? Have you completely misunderstood what I was asking for?

I literally said that the vendor needs to be in place between the expansion dropping and the point where the legendary relic is available. The vendor is ONLY there for people that have either 6 or 7 legendary runes already unlocked (as stated by the poster I was responding to). What the hell would this do to incentivising players to invest in the legendary relic? If you've got the 6/7 runes, you should get the relic as soon as it's available. If you haven't, you have incentive to work towards the legendary relic to get the advantages it offers, just like everyone else.

Maybe read the post before throwing out insults?

[Gehenna.3625]

On 7/22/2023 at 4:58 PM, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

I've said this before as well. This is the absolute minimum they need to do, and they need to announce it quickly. It needs to be in place between the start of the expansion and when the legendary relic is available.

The thing is, they don't need to do this at all.

On 7/22/2023 at 4:58 PM, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

And they need to make it absolutely 100% clear that either 6 or 7 legendary runes will give you 100% of what you need for the legendary relic, with no additional effort or materials required. And if it is 7, they need to make it clear what the material difference will be between the partial completion for 6 runes and the full version, so players can make an educated choice about which option to go for.

They also don't need to do this.

On 7/22/2023 at 4:58 PM, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

Oh, and the vendor needs to be free. Zero cost.

Sure but it's gonna cost them some development resources and for how many people exactly?

On 7/22/2023 at 4:58 PM, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

Anything else, and they've broken the trust of players who've put the time and materials into legendaries. That trust will be gone for good.

Though that might be the case for some of these players, it's an exaggeration as a general statement. And again, how many people are we talking? You see, I think that the people who have legendary runes represent such a small portion of the entire player base that it's not worth investing more into. And they're counting on most of them getting used to it after a little while and accepting it eventually. And I think they are right. Not very nice but that's where I think it is. In effect those players drew the short end of the stick this time around.

On 7/22/2023 at 4:58 PM, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

These politician style announcements need to stop. Tell us facts, or say nothing. You keep giving us posts that pretend to tell us useful information while saying nothing.

They have given some information. Not everything but it's also not nothing. You're just looking for something specific and as long as you're not getting that, you simply dismiss the rest. Now I do agree that Anet is not clear in their communication on various fronts. You'll get no argument from me there.

I think it's their version of managing players' expectations. Look, if they were to tell players everything from A to Z that's a huge distance to cover. But if you first go from A to B and then questions and frustrations arise and so you go from B to C, etc. it's small steps every time and people will get angry but they also get time to get used to some of these things. It's not necessarily nice but I think that's what they're doing.

[Batalix.2873]

22 minutes ago, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

In what planet is this "delusionally entitled"? Have you completely misunderstood what I was asking for?

I literally said that the vendor needs to be in place between the expansion dropping and the point where the legendary relic is available. The vendor is ONLY there for people that have either 6 or 7 legendary runes already unlocked (as stated by the poster I was responding to). What the hell would this do to incentivising players to invest in the legendary relic? If you've got the 6/7 runes, you should get the relic as soon as it's available. If you haven't, you have incentive to work towards the legendary relic to get the advantages it offers, just like everyone else.

Maybe read the post before throwing out insults?

No, I just bothered to think through the logic of your statement.

Maybe if it was a temporary vendor that was removed as soon as the leggy relic was available, that might be a reasonable spaceholder. Even though players could theoretically stock up on endless relics before hand and never need to get a leggy relic.

At minimum, this sort of vendor would need costs associated with the relics. Gold, currency, mats, something. Otherwise you and every other leggy owner would never bother to engage with legendary relics, and the game would start adopting this really weird schism between legacy players with extra benefits and the game design moving forward.

Unless, by "between the dates" you intended to mean the vendor would disappear once the leggy relic was available? I understood it to mean that you just wanted the vendor to drop sometime in the interim but otherwise remain indefinitely.

[Kranlor Greyhelm.8417]

49 minutes ago, Batalix.2873 said:

Maybe if it was a temporary vendor that was removed as soon as the leggy relic was available, that might be a reasonable spaceholder.

 

I literally said in the post you replied to: "It needs to be in place between the start of the expansion and when the legendary relic is available."

Thanks for confirming that you didn't read my post properly before firing insults off.

[Batalix.2873]

38 minutes ago, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

I literally said in the post you replied to: "It needs to be in place between the start of the expansion and when the legendary relic is available."

Thanks for confirming that you didn't read my post properly before firing insults off.

You didn't word it especially clearly, to be fair, but sure I will apologize because you are also mostly right about that.

And even still it poses problems like relic-hoarding if they can just grab whatever they want from the vendor for free, so it is still an imperfect, under-considered solution.

[Astralporing.1957]

11 hours ago, Batalix.2873 said:

This is kind of delusionally entitled? They need to incentivize all players, leggy runes or not, to invest in the leggy relic.

Showing that legendaries are no longer as "safe" from change-induced grind as we assumed actually disincentivizes investing in them - and for all legendaries.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Astralporing.1957

[Serephen.3420]

8 hours ago, Batalix.2873 said:

You didn't word it especially clearly, to be fair, but sure I will apologize because you are also mostly right about that.

And even still it poses problems like relic-hoarding if they can just grab whatever they want from the vendor for free, so it is still an imperfect, under-considered solution.

Unless they make them soulbound and expire when the legendary relic is released?

[Kranlor Greyhelm.8417]

9 hours ago, Batalix.2873 said:

You didn't word it especially clearly, to be fair, but sure I will apologize because you are also mostly right about that.

And even still it poses problems like relic-hoarding if they can just grab whatever they want from the vendor for free, so it is still an imperfect, under-considered solution.

You are right that I didn't spell out that the relics need to be account bound, unsalvageable and with no vendor value. That would be vital, and I hadn't mentioned it.

Anything that is done has to be fair to the people that have legendary relics and have zero impact in the economy.