[SoO Expansion Lore discussion] Tyria finally has Cellphones!

[EdwinLi.1284]

5 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

It does fit with a theory I've espoused before - that while the asura believe they're the best at magic, evil asura are pretty much always a threat due to their technology, while major human villains, and less frequently sylvari, flame legion charr, and the occasional norn, are much more likely to be dangerous due to their own magical power. Their treatment of magic as a power source for technology, while it certainly generates results, makes them less able to foster the more intuitive connection with magic that allows spellcasters of other races to channel immense magical power directly, without the aid of magitech.

Zojja seems like she's being set up as the exception that proves the rule - she's going to become one of those powerful spellcasters, but to do so, she had to remove herself from the magitech community of Rata Sum and receive guidance from mentors that embody a more direct association with magic.

I suspect that such a reinvention might have even been needed from a narrative perspective for her to come back. Pre-HoT Zojja really felt a bit like an adult Taimi (or, perhaps more accurately for the time, Taimi was a mini-Zojja) and having two golemancy experts in the cast is probably redundant, so Zojja was put on a bus. However, there isn't really an expert on the more mystical side of magic in the group (Kasmeer and Marjory tend to treat their magic more as a tool), and Zojja becoming a literal wizard would fit in that role.

Shame Mr Sparkles is gathering dust as a result of Zojja's development though. Atleast Zojja manage to get him back despite it just sitting in her workshop in Wizard's Tower now. 

For those who do not know, you can find him in Zojja's workshop in the Story instance for Act 2 for the Wizard's Tower section of the story

Edited September 5, 2023 by EdwinLi.1284

[Morvran.8265]

5 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Gw2 has never been about "Being alone on an adventure" It, and Gw1, have always been about a team of heroes going out and stopping trouble/saving the day.

Please stop this "things have always been like this since GW1" gaslighting, it's annoying and false.

GW2 narrative changed too much, deliberately, since GW1 and it's really alienating for a lot of us.

[EdwinLi.1284]

5 hours ago, Morvran.8265 said:

Please stop this "things have always been like this since GW1" gaslighting, it's annoying and false.

GW2 narrative changed too much, deliberately, since GW1 and it's really alienating for a lot of us.

Sorry for the long post again. It is how I get when it comes to discussion post when certain topics interests me.


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While agree the theme shift from GW1 to GW2 is far different than most expected (I was expecting GW2 to be more Fantasy theme considering the years I spent on GW1), I cannot say it alienates a lot of people. Ya people are mixed on GW2 theme being Science Fantasy but it feels mostly not care as much since pure Fantasy and Sci-fi theme series dominate most of the video game market these days. Science Fantasy is just not touched alot which may causes certain people to feel unconfortable due to it being a mix of Sci-fi and Fantasy.

 

As for why the shift in theme may have happened, in my opinion, I think it was just Anet's handling on how the technology advanced and reasoning. They put themselves in a bit of a corner when they set the logic that Elder Dragons cannot be defeated by Pure Magical Powers no matter how overpowered it becomes and any advancement in pure technology is useless because their massive amount of Magical Power makes technology alone useless unless magic is added to the mix. If they had not set this up then they may have been able to keep it more Fantasy. Back in GW1 a lot of the logic behind the Fantasy ways of killing the Antagonists at the end was because our character, and their companions, manage to defeat X, Z, and Y antagonist with their own powers with X Magical powers helping them in Y way. A common theme with handling story progress that always been useful for keeping a series within the Fantasy theme which may have kept GW2 in the Fantasy theme setting as well. However, with Aurene's introduction (she literally acts as the Commanders Fantasy theme series logic of "You are the Chosen One with X powers to defeat Y Antagonist Powers") I think it was their attempt to get the story back on the Fantasy theme track a bit but they couldn't fully do so as a result of everyone else who is not the Commander being unable to fight the growing threats Elder Dragons pose without the new advancements in resisting the Elder Dragons created from the new technology.

 

A pure Fantasy theme series tend to not get itself involved with technology advancement because of the reasoning behind why their series world do not need to advance their technology despite years passing in the game's time. For something like the Warcraft series, as a example, they use the logic of "X character" has powerful Magic to defeat Y Antagonist with Magic still being the superior choice for everyone over technology which leaves them no reason to develop the world and just keep it the same no matter how much time passes unless the race has a interests in investing in technology.

 

It is the same for a Fantasy series like Final Fantasy, based on which FF game you look at, but let us use Final Fantasy 14 as the example since it has far more time progress in its story. Years have passed story wise in FF14 since certain event stories only happen once a year but their technology has not advanced a bit in most places. The reasoning behind this is mostly because of the logic "Magic still does better than technology". It is what keeps most regions in their fantasy theme setting since they consist of mostly people who can use magic which does far better than technology in vital areas of daily life. Even the reason behind our Main Character defeating every single Big Bad Boss ends up being "Our Magical Powers are OVER XXXXXX" Logic so there is never any need for advancement in technology since everything is solved with Magical Powers most of the time. Funny enough Linkpearls has been confirmed by Cid that they are the cellphones of their world (it literally use microchips based on our world cellphone microchips) but Cid does not let that knowledge become common because too many people still believe Linkpearls can perform its function because "magic" which shows a bit of another reason why technology rarely advance in FF14 is due to how most people not from a more technology advance civilization tend to default their logic to "because of Magic".

Garlemald is the only civilization current that has developed to our world's standards of technology in FF14 only because they are a civilization that had to develop technology due to lacking magical abilities but even then their advancements into having modern weapons, actual modern day cars, modern day guns, working electricity (well use to have), and etc still could not compare to other civilization's abilities to use magic. Ceruleum was a nice compensation to create weapons that may come close to Magic but it was still never strong as Magic itself. They actually had a moment in Endwalker to show us what it was like for a Garlean, who physiology is basically 99% close to us Humans in the real world, fighting to survive for a small moment to reach point X to point Y. It was like Dark Souls for them because they lack all the benefits that a species born with magical abilities, even small amounts, had such as faster injury healing, greater physical strength, faster reflexes, and etc. 

Edited September 5, 2023 by EdwinLi.1284

[NateffEct.2930]

On 8/24/2023 at 8:50 AM, EdwinLi.1284 said:

Well the Epilogue of SoO Part 1 does suggest that certain Jade Tech has spread out more than others.

In the Epilogue we see the results of our interview from Prologue on a Jade Tech Holo TV News show that Mi Rae works for. Instead of Cantha she says all of Tyria instead which suggests that the Jade Tech Holo TV has spread out more into Core Tyria regions so it may have become a more common house item in current time. Being a household item now, we obviously cannot see it since we cannot enter every single house in GW2 so this is something they have to tell and not show as the timeline progress.

 

Keep in mind that 1 year has passed since events of EoD in the timeline being EoD takes place in 1335 AE (which includes the events of EoD Epilogue involving the Oni) and SoO takes place in 1336 AE (Aurene went to her long sleep during early 1336 AE). So the one year passing has atleast started to bring certain jade tech from Cantha into more commonly used civilian life items for Core Tyria Civilizations.

For anyone that is confused by that the game moves in real time now year for year

[NateffEct.2930]

15 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

It does fit with a theory I've espoused before - that while the asura believe they're the best at magic, evil asura are pretty much always a threat due to their technology, while major human villains, and less frequently sylvari, flame legion charr, and the occasional norn, are much more likely to be dangerous due to their own magical power. Their treatment of magic as a power source for technology, while it certainly generates results, makes them less able to foster the more intuitive connection with magic that allows spellcasters of other races to channel immense magical power directly, without the aid of magitech.

Zojja seems like she's being set up as the exception that proves the rule - she's going to become one of those powerful spellcasters, but to do so, she had to remove herself from the magitech community of Rata Sum and receive guidance from mentors that embody a more direct association with magic.

I suspect that such a reinvention might have even been needed from a narrative perspective for her to come back. Pre-HoT Zojja really felt a bit like an adult Taimi (or, perhaps more accurately for the time, Taimi was a mini-Zojja) and having two golemancy experts in the cast is probably redundant, so Zojja was put on a bus. However, there isn't really an expert on the more mystical side of magic in the group (Kasmeer and Marjory tend to treat their magic more as a tool), and Zojja becoming a literal wizard would fit in that role.

I would most definitely agree, this may have been (and I would think) a major factor in the cataclysm that befell Rata Novus

[EdwinLi.1284]

56 minutes ago, aesur.1457 said:

For anyone that is confused by that the game moves in real time now year for year

It is not really recent style of time frame with GW2 though. It has been like that for a very long time but just not always consistent when you play the game in certain areas of the story. A example is in SoO Epilogue being that when Taimi is called by Zojja, Taimi mentions it has been weeks since the Commander been with the Astral Ward (from the other character's perspective the Commander went MIA after getting that letter after the News Show interview) even though the current SoO main story can be done within a single day by the players.

The wiki provides the full timeline of GW series already for those who want to keep track on when X and Y events happen.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Timeline

Edited September 5, 2023 by EdwinLi.1284

[Kalavier.1097]

16 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

It does fit with a theory I've espoused before - that while the asura believe they're the best at magic, evil asura are pretty much always a threat due to their technology, while major human villains, and less frequently sylvari, flame legion charr, and the occasional norn, are much more likely to be dangerous due to their own magical power. Their treatment of magic as a power source for technology, while it certainly generates results, makes them less able to foster the more intuitive connection with magic that allows spellcasters of other races to channel immense magical power directly, without the aid of magitech.

Zojja seems like she's being set up as the exception that proves the rule - she's going to become one of those powerful spellcasters, but to do so, she had to remove herself from the magitech community of Rata Sum and receive guidance from mentors that embody a more direct association with magic.

I suspect that such a reinvention might have even been needed from a narrative perspective for her to come back. Pre-HoT Zojja really felt a bit like an adult Taimi (or, perhaps more accurately for the time, Taimi was a mini-Zojja) and having two golemancy experts in the cast is probably redundant, so Zojja was put on a bus. However, there isn't really an expert on the more mystical side of magic in the group (Kasmeer and Marjory tend to treat their magic more as a tool), and Zojja becoming a literal wizard would fit in that role.

Well, and Mr Sparkles got smashed to hell and back. Would've been weird if we had Sparkles and Scuffy without their owners.

 

Just now, EdwinLi.1284 said:

It is not really recent style of time frame with GW2 though. It has been like that for a very long time but just not always consistent when you play the game in certain areas of the story. 

The wiki provides the full timeline of GW series already for those who want to keep track on when X and Y events happen.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Timeline

 

I mean, recently they've included explicit time jumps or references to that. Such as Taimi commenting how the commander has been out of touch for a week/weeks IIRC at the end of the current part of soto?

 

11 hours ago, Morvran.8265 said:

Please stop this "things have always been like this since GW1" gaslighting, it's annoying and false.

GW2 narrative changed too much, deliberately, since GW1 and it's really alienating for a lot of us.

What gaslighting? GW1 is LITERALLY Player character + group of other characters (players, heroes, henchmen who became legendary heroes or not in the lore) from the very start after the relevant tutorials. Nightfall explicitly had "You never fight alone" as a tagline of the Sunspears.

So yes, saying that GW1 wasn't about a solo hero off doing his own adventures and planning his next big villain to defeat by himself is true.

 

[Teknomancer.4895]

17 hours ago, Morvran.8265 said:

I was happy to finally move away from that with SotO and then the first story step gives us an improved comm device.. I almost quit right then and there.

I'm still unclear on whether it can just be deleted, the wiki isn't clear. I try to use it and it says it "short-circuited" so it's probably played its part, but there's that part of me that says "they may use it in another mission and what if you don't have it?" Paranoid, I know.

Speaking for myself, I cannot stand the inescapable NPC chatter in the new zone. Once I get the story and whatever loot I want done, I will likely leave the zone never to return. I don't like listening to other people's conversations and getting distracted by loud chatter in real life, why would I want it in my game too?

[Sime.3681]

12 hours ago, Teknomancer.4895 said:

I'm still unclear on whether it can just be deleted, the wiki isn't clear. I try to use it and it says it "short-circuited" so it's probably played its part, but there's that part of me that says "they may use it in another mission and what if you don't have it?" Paranoid, I know.

It is only used for the Beta Tester achievement in the second story instance, otherwise you can delete it. If it is needed in the future, it's been confirmed you can reobtain the gizmo from Eye of the North.

[NateffEct.2930]

On 9/5/2023 at 5:46 PM, EdwinLi.1284 said:

It is not really recent style of time frame with GW2 though. It has been like that for a very long time but just not always consistent when you play the game in certain areas of the story. A example is in SoO Epilogue being that when Taimi is called by Zojja, Taimi mentions it has been weeks since the Commander been with the Astral Ward (from the other character's perspective the Commander went MIA after getting that letter after the News Show interview) even though the current SoO main story can be done within a single day by the players.

The wiki provides the full timeline of GW series already for those who want to keep track on when X and Y events happen.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Timeline

Doesn't have anything to do with how long it takes to complete content though, Anet just develops the story time frame with real time. In other words there isn't going to be an expansion six months from now and the games world has advanced ten years, it will be roughly six months later in the games timeline give or take a few months at most.

Edited September 9, 2023 by aesur.1457

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

44 minutes ago, aesur.1457 said:

Doesn't have anything to do with how long it takes to complete content though, Anet just develops the story time frame with real time. In other words there isn't going to be an expansion six months from now and the games world has advanced ten years, it will be roughly six months later in the games timeline give or take a few months at most.

This is no longer universally true.

A year passed irl between the launch of End of Dragons and What Lies Beneath, however, What Lies Beneath and What Lies Within are still marked as 1335 AE - the same year as EoD events - in the story journal. We did eventually go to 1336 AE for Forward: Interlude and SotO, though.

And when HoT launched, though 8 months passed irl, in story only 24 hours passed since the end of S2E8 - the only time syncing that's been happening since S2 (until What Lies Beneath) was the year progression... Mostly, at least.

Edited September 9, 2023 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[NateffEct.2930]

On 9/8/2023 at 11:19 PM, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

This is no longer universally true.

A year passed irl between the launch of End of Dragons and What Lies Beneath, however, What Lies Beneath and What Lies Within are still marked as 1335 AE - the same year as EoD events - in the story journal. We did eventually go to 1336 AE for Forward: Interlude and SotO, though.

And when HoT launched, though 8 months passed irl, in story only 24 hours passed since the end of S2E8 - the only time syncing that's been happening since S2 (until What Lies Beneath) was the year progression... Mostly, at least.

Agreed and there have been exceptions even earlier on that you could have referenced, I would never have stated this as being universal even at the start. That was why I qualified the statement with "roughly" but I do believe if the actual timeline was fully flowcharted then the matchup between real time and lore time would matchup more often than not and that the exceptions would not involve crazy time differences like ten or a hundred years for example.