main issue that i have with wizards vault

[major.8356]

I completely understand its getting reworked and stuff but my biggest issue with wizards vault is that it is locked behind one's account having reached level 80. The old system allowed accounts to casually level and still have access to being allowed to complete daily objectives and collect the rewards,. While the new system is completely locked behind forcing new players to just use the level 80 booster to force a character to level 80 to unlock the daily/weekly/monthly rewards. They should bring back the tier system that they had implemented with the old daily system to allow people who want to explore the game at a casual pace and still be able to collect daily rewards.  I understand that they want you to be max level to do expansions and things, but not everyone likes to just boost to level 80 without enjoying the casual grind to reach level 80 right from the start. It's as if Arenanet is just saying if you've never gotten a level 80 on your account tough break your just going to miss out on content until you eventually reach level 80.

Edited August 30, 2023 by major.8356

[Doggie.3184]

The blame for this falls on the people with 100 GW2 accounts, though all this does it slow them down.

[Danikat.8537]

That's one way of looking at it. Another possibility is that they don't want players to focus on grinding repetative activities like dailies until they're level 80 and have hopefully seen more of what the game has to offer. That was part of the motivation behind removing champion trains from low level maps - they didn't want new players being told the game was all about repetative grinding for rewards just because that's what some players had chosen to do and it happened to be very visible to new players.

They've previously experimented with using the daily achievements to encourage players to try a wider range of activities, but now they've got the tutorial achievements to do that for new players so I suspect they thought it was better to keep dailies for later.

I don't think it's a big change because there's already a lot of activities you can't do until you're level 80. At this point I think most of the game is level 80 maps (it is possible to enter a lot of them before then, but there's not much a low level character can actually do), as well as things like Fractals, the last few dungeons, strike missions.

[major.8356]

7 minutes ago, Danikat.8537 said:

That's one way of looking at it. Another possibility is that they don't want players to focus on grinding repetative activities like dailies until they're level 80 and have hopefully seen more of what the game has to offer. That was part of the motivation behind removing champion trains from low level maps - they didn't want new players being told the game was all about repetative grinding for rewards just because that's what some players had chosen to do and it happened to be very visible to new players.

They've previously experimented with using the daily achievements to encourage players to try a wider range of activities, but now they've got the tutorial achievements to do that for new players so I suspect they thought it was better to keep dailies for later.

I don't think it's a big change because there's already a lot of activities you can't do until you're level 80. At this point I think most of the game is level 80 maps (it is possible to enter a lot of them before then, but there's not much a low level character can actually do), as well as things like Fractals, the last few dungeons, strike missions.

But with that thought wouldn't it just be better to completely remove levels from the game completely and just focus on mastery points, since in theory levels mean nothing until you start unlocking masteries after hitting level 80.

[Geronmy.3298]

1 hour ago, Doggie.3184 said:

The blame for this falls on the people with 100 GW2 accounts, though all this does it slow them down.

Not even that. If they had them for a while they have enough tomes that it doesn't matter.

 

[Geronmy.3298]

40 minutes ago, major.8356 said:

But with that thought wouldn't it just be better to completely remove levels from the game completely and just focus on mastery points, since in theory levels mean nothing until you start unlocking masteries after hitting level 80.

If they do that then they will no longer be able to sell lvl 80 boosts

 

/s?

[jokke.6239]

Lvl 80 huh ..Oh yeah, then the alt account farm should be almost completely dead

One would have to put in a lot of time or gold as an investment for like 1/3 of the reward compared to before

 

Unless one only did ahandful accounts to unlock stuff in the wizard vault, but you would actually have to put in some gameplay

Edited August 31, 2023 by jokke.6239

[enigmatic.3576]

3 hours ago, Doggie.3184 said:

The blame for this falls on the people with 100 GW2 accounts, though all this does it slow them down.

I doubt it since players have been using multiple accounts for login rewards since it became a thing back in 2014 or sometime around then.

[Danikat.8537]

9 hours ago, major.8356 said:

But with that thought wouldn't it just be better to completely remove levels from the game completely and just focus on mastery points, since in theory levels mean nothing until you start unlocking masteries after hitting level 80.

Levelling in this game basically acts as an extended tutorial - it gradually introduces new mechanics, options and areas of the world until you get to level 80 and then the game becomes almost completely free-roaming - you can go anywhere, do anything, but you're not going to get much guidance on where to go and what to do so you've got to know what the options are and what you enjoy to avoid getting lost or stuck without a goal.

Personally I do think 80 levels is too many. If it was up to me there would be 40 at most (same amount of stuff to unlock, but more condensed) so you'd hit the level cap about 1/2 way through the personal story like in GW1.
 

8 hours ago, Geronmy.3298 said:

Not even that. If they had them for a while they have enough tomes that it doesn't matter.

It wouldn't surprise me if the number of accounts just used to farm login rewards was a factor in changing them, but that's a good point. I upgraded my free account to the heroic edition in 2018 and I've got about 600 tomes of knowledge saved up, plus a few birthday scrolls so it was easy to get a character to 80. It does make it harder to set up new ones using free promotions because you won't get a level 80 boost and now won't get tomes. (Paid accounts don't change because these days that means buying an expansion and then you get a level 80 boost.)

What might make a difference is they've flipped the rewards around so just logging in is less rewarding (you only get 5aa) and doing dailies (and weeklies) is more rewarding. It's not nothing, 5aa a day allows you to get 15 Mystic Coins every 28 days, or other items of your choice but it's not as much as you used to get.

I suspect some people will start doing dailies on at least some of their alt accounts, but I doubt they'd be able to do that on dozens of accounts every day and means they actually have to play to get the rewards.

I know they'll never tell us but I'd love to see how this affects player activity, especially for accounts that used to just log in and then immediately log out again.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Danikat.8537

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

Limiting dailies to level 80 characters does suck. I would have never found Dry Top when I originally played if it wasn't for dailies.

As an aside, getting in there on a low level character made me appreciate how I could get into any map I wanted as long as it was connected.

[major.8356]

17 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

Levelling in this game basically acts as an extended tutorial - it gradually introduces new mechanics, options and areas of the world until you get to level 80 and then the game becomes almost completely free-roaming - you can go anywhere, do anything, but you're not going to get much guidance on where to go and what to do so you've got to know what the options are and what you enjoy to avoid getting lost or stuck without a goal.
 

I completely understand that but when they want to reward people for playing the game and then go around and lock it behind being required have a level 80 it defeats the purpose of even having to go around leveling. When basically they just want you to boost your account to level 80 with the booster given when buying expansions. Before the change the daily system had different tiers if your account didnt have a level 80 toon yet. So say your max toon was only level 40 you would still see daily tasks but it was in a more manageable area vs being in all high level maps only, like if the daily was to gather wood in frostgorge map, lower tier would just have you gather in shiverpeaks or something instead. But with the way the new system is implemented if you forgo boosting your character to level 80 you are basically locked out of the system until you reach level 80, thus missing out on things that the old system would have still rewarded you for exploring.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

And all those free Heroic accounts now can't reap Daily rewards until they create a L80 character; this may be one of the reasons the Wizard's Vault requires L80 character. 

[Danikat.8537]

3 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

And all those free Heroic accounts now can't reap Daily rewards until they create a L80 character; this may be one of the reasons the Wizard's Vault requires L80 character. 

As mentioned earlier it only really affects recently created ones, and ones created after the update. Under the old system everyone got 10 tomes of knowledge every 28 days, so it would take 8 months to get enough to fully level a character. You could easily cut that down to 7 months because getting out of the tutorial gets you to level 2, any heart gets you to level 3 and the little bit of exploration they'll do on the way to a bank is likely to get them to level 4. It's not hard to get another 6 levels quickly, then use tomes from that point on.

I think it will discourage players from creating new accounts to farm login rewards (or at least ensure they have to pay to do so by buying an expansion to get a level 80 boost) but the big thing which might kill the trend of some players cycling through dozens of accounts to collect login rewards is that most of the reward has shifted from logging in to doing the dailies. I know some people in other topics are claiming they'll just spend all their time doing dailies on all their accounts instead of actually playing but I'm sceptical of how many people will do that because if you spend all your time farming gold it becomes pointless because you never get to use the things you buy. But even if they do there's a much lower limit on how many accounts they can do that on in a day.
 

6 hours ago, major.8356 said:

I completely understand that but when they want to reward people for playing the game and then go around and lock it behind being required have a level 80 it defeats the purpose of even having to go around leveling. When basically they just want you to boost your account to level 80 with the booster given when buying expansions. Before the change the daily system had different tiers if your account didnt have a level 80 toon yet. So say your max toon was only level 40 you would still see daily tasks but it was in a more manageable area vs being in all high level maps only, like if the daily was to gather wood in frostgorge map, lower tier would just have you gather in shiverpeaks or something instead. But with the way the new system is implemented if you forgo boosting your character to level 80 you are basically locked out of the system until you reach level 80, thus missing out on things that the old system would have still rewarded you for exploring.

I still don't understand why you think it's a problem for this system but not for anything else you can't do until you get to level 80. Unless it's just the fact that this is a new change?

That's why I said levelling is an extended tutorial - you're not supposed to be able to do everything until you get to the max level. That doesn't mean they're trying to force people to skip the tutorial, it means they don't think players are ready to have all those options until they complete it. In this case I think they don't want people to fall into the habit of just doing the dailies every day and then logging out because they never get around to figuring out what else they could do, and then getting burned out after a while of doing nothing but dailies.

[major.8356]

5 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

I still don't understand why you think it's a problem for this system but not for anything else you can't do until you get to level 80. Unless it's just the fact that this is a new change?

That's why I said levelling is an extended tutorial - you're not supposed to be able to do everything until you get to the max level. That doesn't mean they're trying to force people to skip the tutorial, it means they don't think players are ready to have all those options until they complete it. In this case I think they don't want people to fall into the habit of just doing the dailies every day and then logging out because they never get around to figuring out what else they could do, and then getting burned out after a while of doing nothing but dailies.

So what you're saying is new accounts that choose to slowly level and explore the game are to be locked out of content since they chose to casually explore the game vs a new account that chooses to just boost to level 80 from the start. Outside of them removing the 28 day login bouncy chest I don't see what removing dailies from low level accounts does other then lock them out of content.

Edited September 1, 2023 by major.8356

[major.8356]

5 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

And all those free Heroic accounts now can't reap Daily rewards until they create a L80 character; this may be one of the reasons the Wizard's Vault requires L80 character. 

I understand that the new system is trying to get rid of the login reward in an attempt to deter account farming, but it completely removes the daily tasks as well from any account that does not have a level 80 on it. The old system outside of the login reward would still have tiered tasks dependent on accounts max level until they reached level 80, which meant they were still able to reap the benefits of spending time to do dailies to collect the bouncy chest.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Yes?  I think most are aware of how the previous Dailies worked.  Now everyone needs to level up at least one character to reap the rewards; players with one account or one hundred accounts.