Willbender not as advertise base on the elite spec description Arenanet please listen to your players.

[MalekithDG.6124]

4 hours ago, jayson.6512 said:

I dunno what you on about but if you are happy about every class getting useless utilities in every new elite specs in every expansions well you are one of the big problem. Most guardians runs the same elite skills in wvw and pvp because other elite skills are not worth picking up. Some pick FMW but most guardians use RF for obvious reason and spending my hard earned money to get the expansion and play my favorite class in game with a new elite spec then knowing 90% of its utilities are useless and feels like just a filler or random skill thrown by the dev.

Tell me which content in the game WB can use all those utilities that is more worth other than the current existing guardian utilities?  sure you can play with it in open world pve doing random stuff but for a more serious content like fractals,strike,raids,spvp,wvw only whirling light is worth using on all those physical utilities of the WB.

If you cant win 1v1 against a WB thats a skill issue because there are a lot of other elite specs out there that can melt a WB.

If, to beat a class, I am supposed to press 50 different buttons while having to think about various elements of battle where as my opponent gets the same result with 10 buttons without that much pressure on him that implies a balance problem.

I often make fun of other games balance teams but seeing you guys I know it could be worse. Imagine thinking with "skill" alone you can achieve everything. People made that word so common these days that if anything is awry then it must be something to do with skill. Yes, having lots of skill does help and in our case you can off a willbender but good luck recruting hot bloods to WvW in the long term, good luck keeping roaming scene healthy LOL. I assure you 9 out of 10 people that will come through that door will never be that "skillful" (whatever that means).

You cant choose the worst character in a fighting game and then go win a world tournament unless you are "that guy". No matter how god level you are with the character your character is still bound by their frames. On a worst character you have to burn 10x more "skill" to achieve what best character can with ease man LOL.

[jayson.6512]

1 hour ago, MalekithDG.6124 said:

If, to beat a class, I am supposed to press 50 different buttons while having to think about various elements of battle where as my opponent gets the same result with 10 buttons without that much pressure on him that implies a balance problem.

I often make fun of other games balance teams but seeing you guys I know it could be worse. Imagine thinking with "skill" alone you can achieve everything. People made that word so common these days that if anything is awry then it must be something to do with skill. Yes, having lots of skill does help and in our case you can off a willbender but good luck recruting hot bloods to WvW in the long term, good luck keeping roaming scene healthy LOL. I assure you 9 out of 10 people that will come through that door will never be that "skillful" (whatever that means).

You cant choose the worst character in a fighting game and then go win a world tournament unless you are "that guy". No matter how god level you are with the character your character is still bound by their frames. On a worst character you have to burn 10x more "skill" to achieve what best character can with ease man LOL.

You really confuse me with your answer its like apple to orange 50 different buttons? what class needs 50 buttons i played ele,warrior,revenant,eng and i never need to press that much buttons.

Sometimes just admit that you are wrong but i guess for a people like you its very difficult because you are probably the kind that will blame consumers like me if im just asking for a quality product that i paid with my hard earned money. 

And again for the sake of clarity i never ask for a buff i don't know what is your problem with my original post is reworking willbender physical utilities to make it useful for other game modes is it too much? its like telling me willbender doesn't need it because core guardian already have useful utility skills so lets just accept whatever we have even the quality is sub par/below average and throw away our money just like that. We are the consumers here if we don't voice out the issue we will not get the game quality we deserve i'm not even asking to buff willbender spec to make it god mode im not sure what is wrong with my english if you can't understand that.

[MalekithDG.6124]

13 minutes ago, jayson.6512 said:

Sometimes just admit that you are wrong but i guess for a people like you its very difficult because you are probably the kind that will blame consumers like me if im just asking for a quality product that i paid with my hard earned money. 

My dear friend, we all pay the same amount for the game and I literally have 0 animosity towards you. If you think the product you got is bad in quality then I am terribly sorry and thats between you and ANET. But why your class should get even more advantage than mine does? Why should my product get worse for your benefit? If you want PVE buffs sure go for it, there arent many WB's running around in PvE so you guys are probably in need of a buff but in WvW you guys are at least in for some nerfs until you can get reworks/buffs in. You need to acknowledge that WB is literally at least S tier in roaming.

All of this conversation started with you requesting "control" skills and calling willbender "mobile, a bit". I just felt like you are downplaying the spec and requesting more stuff to it. Rightfully I voiced my opinion. There is nothing wrong with your english nor mine.

Untamed skills are also niche and mostly unused, Daredevil skills are unused... Lots of especs have only 1 or if they lucky 2 new usable skills. This doesnt imply that there is something wrong with the product. And if you have any ideas on how to improve the physical skills do voice them so we can talk but there is a reason majority of guardians roam with Willbender and not with DH/FB/CoreG. You cant get more "options" that would overthrow your already good previous skillsets. You have to take some nerfs first.

Edited October 1, 2023 by MalekithDG.6124

[jayson.6512]

2 hours ago, MalekithDG.6124 said:

Daredevil skills are unused... Lots of especs have only 1 or if they lucky 2 new usable skills. This doesnt imply that there is something wrong with the product. 

This is the issue we are so used to just accept getting 1 or 2 usable skills and the rest is just a filler that is why im asking for rework but your mindset is why would your elite spec get a rework while mine doesn't.

Instead of supporting we both get a rework for those different classes that has filler skills its been 10 years now and some guardian skill are still buggy so should i just ignore it because your class has buggy skills too? should we just play a buggy game because my class doesn't deserve the bugged fix?

2 hours ago, MalekithDG.6124 said:

My dear friend, we all pay the same amount for the game and I literally have 0 animosity towards you. If you think the product you got is bad in quality then I am terribly sorry and thats between you and ANET.

As much i want to support ANET but if we keep getting this type of quality they don't deserve our money i'm a gw1 player and it pains me to see the developer im supporting for the longest time is becoming blizzard.

2 hours ago, MalekithDG.6124 said:

And if you have any ideas on how to improve the physical skills do voice them so we can talk but there is a reason majority of guardians roam with Willbender and not with DH/FB/CoreG. You cant get more "options" that would overthrow your already good previous skillsets. You have to take some nerfs first.

There are others who already posted their idea about physical skill for WB i don't have to make another thread for that. And if majority of guardians roaming as WB but they are running the same utilities and elite skills that is the point of  my post because that means we don't have diversity.
 

Again we are just circling around im asking for a rework not a buff because i want diversity its great to see a game where you fight another willbender with a different build than mine because if we are running the same build same utilities same trait lines then that means something is wrong. 

Reworking WB physical utility will open up more build options and if you think having more build option is OP again i don't know what to say anymore to you im not even asking for a flat damage buff my post is not asking for a FLAT DAMAGE buff DAMAGE buff is not the point of my post.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

4 hours ago, MalekithDG.6124 said:

Untamed skills are also niche and mostly unused, Daredevil skills are unused... Lots of especs have only 1 or if they lucky 2 new usable skills. This doesnt imply that there is something wrong with the product. And if you have any ideas on how to improve the physical skills do voice them so we can talk but there is a reason majority of guardians roam with Willbender and not with DH/FB/CoreG. You cant get more "options" that would overthrow your already good previous skillsets. You have to take some nerfs first.

I don't know what server you're playing on, but it's not mine because I see DH traps EVERYWHERE in WVW. I probably see more DH players than WB, actually. Both group and roaming play. You don't see FB roaming much, because it has very few mobility skills and has to look outside its own feature set to make it work. WB is great for mobility but lacks a few key features, has subpar sustain (it's just... really bad), and has inconsistent tracking on too many skills compared to other classes that all keep it from being a top roamer. The meta community generally ranks it as a mid-A tier roamer, not S. https://metabattle.com/wiki/Tier_List GuildJen is the only major content creator I know that puts WB in the S tier, but Vallun qualifies that you have to be good enough to hit its burst or it drops to A, which makes it A by default in my book, since tier lists are supposed to evaluate ease of play too, and WB doesn't have that.

Also, WB utilities could seriously use some work. Just because other classes are weaker in WVW roaming, doesn't mean multiple classes can't get the fixes they need. Anet makes changes to all classes during almost every patch. Love for one class does do preclude love for others, and balance can come to both at the same time.

[Jitters.9401]

On 9/28/2023 at 9:28 AM, MalekithDG.6124 said:

I am convinced every single developer and designer at ANET is die hard guardian fan because ever since willbender released (been 1.5-2 years now.) not a single substantial nerf are given to them.

This!!!

[Ezrael.6859]

13 minutes ago, Jitters.9401 said:

This!!!

No, Guardian has simply remained as one of the most balanced classes for the past 11 years, receiving the fewest buffs, nerfs and changes in general.

Other professions and specs tend to swing more on the pendulum from too strong to underpowered.

 

Some players spend more time complaining on the forums rather than learning to play better and practicing.

[Jitters.9401]

18 hours ago, Ezrael.6859 said:

No, Guardian has simply remained as one of the most balanced classes for the past 11 years, receiving the fewest buffs, nerfs and changes in general.

Other professions and specs tend to swing more on the pendulum from too strong to underpowered.

 

Some players spend more time complaining on the forums rather than learning to play better and practicing.

So by your logic guardian is the benchmark?   That is humorous. I have only seen devs playing guardians and eles.... the two most op things in the game. The tankiest... the aoe damage.... the escape abilities.... must be a coincidence. Surely a coincidence 🤔.  Just happenstance.

Fate perhaps??? That the people who are supposed to balance the game play the most OP professions out there.

 

I have a lvl 80 guardian that I had never learned to play. It is has been a mule alomst from day 1 when i leveled it with tomes. Yesterday I went into wvw.... bought the exotic gear... and made a guardian.

As a pure guardian novice,  I was shocked at how tanky I was and how simple it was to play. And definitely OP.

And I am a total novice that is doing well and not getting steam rolled. 

Guardian is not balanced... why do I say this?  If someone who knows nothing about it is beating a good number of people  1v1 in wvw.... then it is OP.

[prototypedragon.1406]

https://youtu.be/Wct5kOj_i-M?si=DjppLzRHnsZ4nW5j I'm just going to leave this here.

[Jitters.9401]

12 hours ago, prototypedragon.1406 said:

https://youtu.be/Wct5kOj_i-M?si=DjppLzRHnsZ4nW5j I'm just going to leave this here.

Good choice of music.

[jayson.6512]

On 10/4/2023 at 3:56 AM, prototypedragon.1406 said:

https://youtu.be/Wct5kOj_i-M?si=DjppLzRHnsZ4nW5j I'm just going to leave this here.

All i can see here is 2 players both know how to play their class really well. If leaving this to show how OP guardian is well this is a big failed because i didn't see WB able to 100 - 0 the warrior which one of the comments here trying to imply. And the warrior even able to burst 45% of WB hp from the 10-20 second initial fight i can only imagine if WB was fighting a Berserker or other warrior build other than the shout warrior in this video im pretty sure WB will melt.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

5 hours ago, jayson.6512 said:

All i can see here is 2 players both know how to play their class really well. If leaving this to show how OP guardian is well this is a big failed because i didn't see WB able to 100 - 0 the warrior which one of the comments here trying to imply. And the warrior even able to burst 45% of WB hp from the 10-20 second initial fight i can only imagine if WB was fighting a Berserker or other warrior build other than the shout warrior in this video im pretty sure WB will melt.

Huh? Our prototypical dragon friend wasn't advocating that guardian is OP. That was jitters. I think you have your fellow j confused with someone else.

This video is likely intended to show the opposite; how guardians/willbenders are not OP when up against a similarly skilled player. At least that's what I got out of it. 

[Falseprophet.1502]

On 9/30/2023 at 4:40 PM, Arken.3725 said:

WB sucks for the following reason:

- As a roamer it lacks soft-cc, superspeed or quickness to apply damage as quickly as other roamers

You're not wrong. However, I probably wouldn't use the word 'sucks,' but maybe 'often outclassed' would be a better description. The lack of these things really does cripple it at times. If they're not willing to add any of these, then Restorative Virtues needs to become baseline baked into the Willbender Flames then it'll allow for more creative master traits for the now Restorative Virtues and Holy Reckoning. 

[Arken.3725]

27 minutes ago, Falseprophet.1502 said:

You're not wrong. However, I probably wouldn't use the word 'sucks,' but maybe 'often outclassed' would be a better description. The lack of these things really does cripple it at times. If they're not willing to add any of these, then Restorative Virtues needs to become baseline baked into the Willbender Flames then it'll allow for more creative master traits for the now Restorative Virtues and Holy Reckoning. 

I'll rephrase it then:

It sucks because the core aspect of Guardian forbids it from being good.  It's too slow, stationary and predictable.  These are stemmed from rooted skills(Zealot's Defense, Ring of Warding, Trueshot), poorly tracking skills that won't hit even if you're in range(Zealot's Defense, Binding Blade, Zealot's Fire, Orb of Wrath, Staff auto at max range, Long bow auto at max range and sometimes, Zealot's Embrace).

Symbols are also either a wasted skill-slot on every weapon because there's no amount of benefit to keep you in it as well as no amount of detriment to keep your enemy in it.  Think about it @falseprohet.1502, to be a good roamer you need the ability to stick and in some cases, disengage.  There's no superspeed, no quickness, no cripple, no chill, limited immobilization, poorly tracked skills.  This is just to name a few.  Guardian can always GET to their target....sticking on it is another matter entirely.

Don't even get me started on the myriad of outdated traits, utilities(consecrations, most signets, spirit weapons, most physical skills, ect)

 

[Falseprophet.1502]

12 minutes ago, Arken.3725 said:

I'll rephrase it then:

It sucks because the core aspect of Guardian forbids it from being good.  It's too slow, stationary and predictable.  These are stemmed from rooted skills(Zealot's Defense, Ring of Warding, Trueshot), poorly tracking skills that won't hit even if you're in range(Zealot's Defense, Binding Blade, Zealot's Fire, Orb of Wrath, Staff auto at max range, Long bow auto at max range and sometimes, Zealot's Embrace).

Symbols are also either a wasted skill-slot on every weapon because there's no amount of benefit to keep you in it as well as no amount of detriment to keep your enemy in it.  Think about it @falseprohet.1502, to be a good roamer you need the ability to stick and in some cases, disengage.  There's no superspeed, no quickness, no cripple, no chill, limited immobilization, poorly tracked skills.  This is just to name a few.  Guardian can always GET to their target....sticking on it is another matter entirely.

Don't even get me started on the myriad of outdated traits, utilities(consecrations, most signets, spirit weapons, most physical skills, ect)

 

Trust me man, I'm on your side. I agree with everything. I've never been a proponent of ZD or skills that root you (take a look at my post history). I don't think it sucks, it's just outclassed by the majority of the roaming classes out there. 

[Arken.3725]

2 minutes ago, Falseprophet.1502 said:

Trust me man, I'm on your side. I agree with everything. I've never been a proponent of ZD or skills that root you (take a look at my post history). I don't think it sucks, it's just outclassed by the majority of the roaming classes out there. 

I know you are!  I just like to bring examples to my argument to strengthen it.  Funny enough, even when you do, It's never enough haha.  But here's the thing, the items I listed are not reasons why It's outclassed, it just suuuucks.  These are persistent problems since launch.

Edited October 5, 2023 by Arken.3725

[Falseprophet.1502]

1 minute ago, Arken.3725 said:

I know you are!  I just like to bring examples to my argument to strengthen it.  Funny enough, even when you do, It's never enough haha

We still have forum-goers who think Hammer is a good weapon. They think the AA chain is unique and good, despite it being a very outdated, highly counter-able weapon. I empathize with you.

[Arken.3725]

7 minutes ago, Falseprophet.1502 said:

We still have forum-goers who think Hammer is a good weapon. They think the AA chain is unique and good, despite it being a very outdated, highly counter-able weapon. I empathize with you.

It's gotten better but it's slow, reactive nature doesn't justify the skills attached.  Hammer on Guard is arguably the slowest weapon in the game across any class and yet it's output doesn't match how slow it is.  This thing should be DESTROYING people given how easy it is to avoid.  The benefits attached should be massive given this fact.  

Granted, JI into Mighty Blow is easier to land....the kit itself is in rough shape.