So many low effort bunker/duel builds

[Flowki.7194]

This was an enemy team, and its not uncommon to have this kind of loadout in most games.

 

Core gaurd: King of face tank

Blood scourge: Queen of fecetank

Spellbreaker: Prince of facetank

Bunker chrono: Princess of facetank

Powernecro: Identifying as bladesworn, god of facetank

 

Things are so much better now that ele has been knocked off the top. All the ranged 2 button hero specs and meme 1 shot builds that ele kept in check, now being countered by low effort bunker builds instead. Great fun. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Wild.1705]

If you have enough damage, you can kill just about anything. A good warrior on a bunker build is the exception.

That being said, core Guardian, heal Scourge, distortion signet mesmer, dodgy Revanents, and a few others, can be nearly immortal for a while while they have abilities off cooldown. Eventually they run out of defenses if you can keep up the pressure (and in the case of some specs like mesmer, survive their toxic attacks during distortion) then you can kill them.

Once again, warriors are the only class I see that don't die eventually. The combination of self healing, damage immunity, self healing, kiting, and self healing(why are they healing so much?) makes them immortal to most 1v1s.

[magickthief.6492]

So, i guess when these classes lose, they rush to forums and say damage is too high lmao

[Gotejjeken.1267]

  

2 minutes ago, Wild.1705 said:

If you have enough damage, you can kill just about anything. A good warrior on a bunker build is the exception.

...

Once again, warriors are the only class I see that don't die eventually. The combination of self healing, damage immunity, self healing, kiting, and self healing(why are they healing so much?) makes them immortal to most 1v1s.

Eventually being the key word--which is a problem considering the capture/hold nature of the mode.  By time you eventually get one to low HP you most likely either get +1'd by a DPS or they stall long enough to accomplish the goal of wasting time.

The real issue is, even when you are fighting there's a good chance you can die to these bunkers too--because a bunker can do decent damage as well as have insane sustain.  The only thing to stop them is the meme one-shot builds, which just creates a terrible balance scenario.

Not really sure how to fix this given the nature of how all boons are just available to everyone and now all weapons across all specs--would need a complete overhaul but they just double down on chaos = balance approach for years now.  

[rank eleven monk.9502]

Complaining about bunker chrono that doesn't even exist any more - while the dumbest of all Virtuoso builds are running rampant (signet build, shield offhand etc). Ok

[Khalisto.5780]

Bunkers have always been the best tool for not so good players to climb, you just 1vX ppl of your level or worse easily, when you come across a better player their waste so much time on you that it's such a big value, they could prolly have gotten 2 or more kills elsewhere.

 

There are always 2 or 3 degen bunker bunker builds, but sometimes they're not very popular

[dead.7638]

1 hour ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Things are so much better now that ele has been knocked off the top. All the ranged 2 button hero specs and meme 1 shot builds that ele kept in check, now being countered by low effort bunker builds instead. Great fun. 

So as long as ele is top dog you’re okay with the insane burstiness of the game?   Okay, I’m start calling you lil 🤡m🤡 

[Flowki.7194]

23 minutes ago, rank eleven monk.9502 said:

Complaining about bunker chrono that doesn't even exist any more - while the dumbest of all Virtuoso builds are running rampant (signet build, shield offhand etc). Ok

It doesnt matter what mesmer bunker build, they all take more effort and know how to kill, than to play. Same with warrior duelist builds where 15/17 or so abilitys can be spammed in any situation, with no situational thought other than ''is the target in range'', while the warrior mechanics across any spec force the opponent to understand exactly what to dodge, in order to not hit a stunlock, meme one shot, or mass condi spam.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Flowki.7194]

10 minutes ago, dead.7638 said:

So as long as ele is top dog you’re okay with the insane burstiness of the game?   Okay, I’m start calling you lil 🤡m🤡 

Thats the opposite to what I said. Tempest/scepter cata kept a lot of lower skill floor, meme, or 3 button burst specs (LB ranger) in check.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 hour ago, magickthief.6492 said:

So, i guess when these classes lose, they rush to forums and say damage is too high lmao

 

[vilesoldier.9826]

2 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

All the ranged 2 button hero specs and meme 1 shot builds that ele kept in check

 

"My class is a saint, your class is a heathen"

 

and how exactly was cata "keeping them in check" again?

trying to see if that ele brain can think outside the box for a sec

Edited September 24, 2023 by GeneralBM.5781

[Flowki.7194]

23 minutes ago, GeneralBM.5781 said:

 

"My class is a saint, your class is a heathen"

 

and how exactly was cata "keeping them in check" again?

trying to see if that ele brain can think outside the box for a sec

Im playing revenent tbf. Its possible to make a statement that isnt from a bias position.

 

More eles in game the better, they are easier to punish when bad, unlike multiple specs now. When they are good, rediculous specs like meme zerker and LB rangers at1500 get put in line, like they should be.

[vilesoldier.9826]

1 minute ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Im playing revenent tbf. Its possible to make a statement that isnt from a bias position.

cute.

 

2 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

When they are good, rediculous specs like meme zerker and LB rangers at1500 get put in line, like they should be.

 

Yeah, "get put in line" along with the entire pvp gamemode for months 😴

 

just say you don't think anet did the best job handling nerfs to ele after signet cata and make a coherent argument for why you think so. This virtue signaling angle is cringe. Are you afraid of critique? Too jaded to think anet won't ever give ele back some of its tools? Flowki just let it out, it's ok to stand up for your true love.

[Flowki.7194]

9 minutes ago, GeneralBM.5781 said:

cute.

 

 

Yeah, "get put in line" along with the entire pvp gamemode for months 😴

 

just say you don't think anet did the best job handling nerfs to ele after signet cata and make a coherent argument for why you think so. This virtue signaling angle is cringe. Are you afraid of critique? Too jaded to think anet won't ever give ele back some of its tools? Flowki just let it out, it's ok to stand up for your true love.

My position has always been the same. Effort, and skill floor should corrolate with spec effectiveness. These current low skill floor duelist/bunker builds are out of line. Zerker meme and zerker condi is out of line, etc.

 

The game does not get better when you nerf the effectiveness of higher skill floor specs, it gets worse. Where are all the complicated and effective engi builds that should be viable? I would be playing one if so, and even if I wasnt very good at it. Why play a complicated spec that isnt effective. Clearly nobody is, playerbase is downword spiraling to the next most degenerate spec that is the most effective for the least effort.

 

For the record I wasnt even that great on power cata, but I died if I kitten up, as I should. Yet, played well, I did well, as I should.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Asuran.5469]

this is most diverse meta we had in long time PvP Builds - MetaBattle Guild Wars 2 Builds stop hyperbole

[vilesoldier.9826]

2 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

The game does not get better when you nerf the effectiveness of higher skill floor specs, it gets worse.

 

Nah, this is such a thinly veiled "I'm upset that my obscure ele build got hard nuked bc of signet cata" and you are too afraid to plainly say it. And the craziest part, ITS OK to feel that way! 

 

My proudest moment for you Flowki would be the day you make a forum topic detailing buffs you would like to see for ele, instead of this meek bs

[Flowki.7194]

29 minutes ago, GeneralBM.5781 said:

 

Nah, this is such a thinly veiled "I'm upset that my obscure ele build got hard nuked bc of signet cata" and you are too afraid to plainly say it. And the craziest part, ITS OK to feel that way! 

 

My proudest moment for you Flowki would be the day you make a forum topic detailing buffs you would like to see for ele, instead of this meek bs

If only any of that were true. Im more than happy playing vindi, just noting facts since the ele nerfs, but aparently thats not allowed. It was also obvious what needed to happen to ele, I posted that at the time, look it up since you care so much.

 

Back on point, are you defending the amount of low skill floor duelist builds now?

Edited September 24, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[vilesoldier.9826]

3 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

If only any of that were true.

 

39 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

The game does not get better when you nerf the effectiveness of higher skill floor specs, it gets worse.

💀

[Flowki.7194]

3 minutes ago, GeneralBM.5781 said:

 

💀

Trying so hard to be edgy

 

What spec/s do you play currently?

[Myror.7521]

The trueth is .... the Game is omega powercreeped in all ways (boon Spam, Defence Spam, Power Dmg, condi dmg, evade Spam, Blocks Spam, invuln Spam) difference is still. Some builds are the best in those things and thats why they meta xd. Thats also the reason why peops will always cry about "class is too broken". Most of the time its Just a Build that is juust broken means a Comb of skills, traits, weapons ^^

[Flowki.7194]

12 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

The trueth is .... the Game is omega powercreeped in all ways (boon Spam, Defence Spam, Power Dmg, condi dmg, evade Spam, Blocks Spam, invuln Spam) difference is still. Some builds are the best in those things and thats why they meta xd. Thats also the reason why peops will always cry about "class is too broken". Most of the time its Just a Build that is juust broken means a Comb of skills, traits, weapons ^^

 

There will always be ''broken specs'', or meta even, but the issue is when yhose broken specs are also so easy to play. Where do you force mistakes? when all of the sustain is built into smashing 5 buttons, which in alot of cases also doubles up as damage. Casual is not a strong enough word for it.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[vilesoldier.9826]

21 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Back on point, are you defending the amount of low skill floor duelist builds now?

 

Yeah you're right, we should get back on point xd

 

Not really, I generally agree that low skill floor builds "that are overperforming" like condizerk, soulbeast (hit already), bladesworn, etc are true killers at lower ratings. What I do defend is the existence of low skill floor builds "at all" in my small indie gw2 game, and when I see something like this topic, especially with your name attached, I tend to be a little cautious. 

 

But if you want that peace of mind, yes, they should nerf condizerk 😉

[Flowki.7194]

20 minutes ago, GeneralBM.5781 said:

 

Yeah you're right, we should get back on point xd

 

Not really, I generally agree that low skill floor builds "that are overperforming" like condizerk, soulbeast (hit already), bladesworn, etc are true killers at lower ratings. What I do defend is the existence of low skill floor builds "at all" in my small indie gw2 game, and when I see something like this topic, especially with your name attached, I tend to be a little cautious. 

 

But if you want that peace of mind, yes, they should nerf condizerk 😉

 

Low skill floor specs can exist sure, but they should come with the very clear downside that they are hard capped in effectiveness. A player of a month can jump on something like warrior or bunker mesmer, and become a real pain in the kitten. They won't be doing that on a higher skill floor spec, that would take more like 6 months or more, and it should do, why shouldnt it?. 

 

At this point what are the high skillfloor specs regularly in use? their are not many left from what I can see.

 

I played today agaisnt a decent SB, he was using LB+melee and traps. It was an interesting spec and clearly took more thought than the other SB bs. Thats the kind of thing, aside from LB range which is too much imo, I don't mind. There are so many interesting engi builds possible... yet all you see is 5 button scrapper burst, or afk condi mechs. Its fking depressing, and boring to out play given the shear lack of effort to get moderately good on such specs. Oh theirs a condi mech, better find some height to abuse, and if none im likely to take a truck load of damage for 0 engi effort coz SPB just stunned me, after dodging/mitigating his first 3 attempts..

Edited September 25, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Wild.1705]

3 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

  

Eventually being the key word--which is a problem considering the capture/hold nature of the mode.  By time you eventually get one to low HP you most likely either get +1'd by a DPS or they stall long enough to accomplish the goal of wasting time.

The real issue is, even when you are fighting there's a good chance you can die to these bunkers too--because a bunker can do decent damage as well as have insane sustain.  The only thing to stop them is the meme one-shot builds, which just creates a terrible balance scenario.

Not really sure how to fix this given the nature of how all boons are just available to everyone and now all weapons across all specs--would need a complete overhaul but they just double down on chaos = balance approach for years now.  

Great insight. Finally someone responds to my post and adds to the conversation in a meaningful manner.

The part that drives me crazy is that the bunkers like Gunsworn can hit for 3K+ consistently. They shouldn't be doing any damage over 100.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Wild.1705
Grammer

[vilesoldier.9826]

1 hour ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Low skill floor specs can exist sure, but they should come with the very clear downside that they are hard capped in effectiveness.

 

It's funny bc you lose me right at the first sentence. You seem to have this weird hangup where low and high skill floor specs shouldn't ever come close in effectiveness. I plainly do not agree with that. People come to this game for different reasons, people like to play in different ways, they're all valid (except p/p daredevils 😠) and make this game interesting.

 

1 hour ago, Flowki.7194 said:

A player of a month can jump on something like warrior or bunker mesmer, and become a real pain in the kitten.

To this, I ask you simply; And??

Overperformance is one thing, but like in your head, do you think there should be a DIRECT 1:1 link between effort learning your spec and results? If so, sorry that's a delusion.

 

There's so many factors that go into "why I lost" it's insane. Like if you're wracking your brain trying to justify why you shouldn't lose to someone playing a lower skill floor spec than you then you're missing the point and actively hurting your fun & improvement because of it. 

Edited September 25, 2023 by GeneralBM.5781