This update proves that previews are needed.

[peperoncino.2516]

29 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

It's likely SOME WAY exists already, since we have seen evidence of it in the past. 

is it likely? if a way even exists, most changes can also be traced to how they affected metrics here and there, or to some popular streamer complaining about the issue.

either way, whole process is not obvious, which is not great for a feedback system.

41 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I would argue that if Anet is trying to get feedback from a specific group of players that they have identified as highly knowledgeable about the game, patch previews on the forums is probably the WORST way to get it. 

first of all, you forgot your "why". as in "why, if given tools to do it, like forum previews or whatnot, community cannot also try to add those who it deems as knowledgeable?" 

second of all, i will argue even against such a ghost of an argument.

issue with your example is, you assume those who anet identified as "specific group of highly knowledgeable players" are actually that, and its not just a giant echo chamber, or anet just being wrong. i mean, even if all sides are competent, it still makes little sense to have basically no clear way for the community to have a say in the process, if such process even exists that is.

as i said previously, forums might require an update here and there to help differentiate between more/less helpful posts. that said, publishing patch previews allows to both streamline a way of dev-player communications, and actually finally opens it up for both players and developers. meaning, community at large can, without a need to jump through current barely known about hoops, make arguments for and against planned changes, and if arguments are reasonable to both the community and the developers, then expect at least something out of it.

can work both ways, too! community will be able to hear reasons for proposed changes, or even argue those reasons.

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

But sure, let's pretend your reasoning

???

either argue against, or dont bother both me and yourself.

[Obtena.7952]

39 minutes ago, peperoncino.2516 said:

is it likely? if a way even exists, most changes can also be traced to how they affected metrics here and there, or to some popular streamer complaining about the issue.

either way, whole process is not obvious, which is not great for a feedback system.

OK ... still that doesn't prove we need previews.  The process is not obvious? OK ... I doesn't need to be. We don't pay for 'balance process transparency' as customers. That's not something Anet has to share with us if they don't want to. 

39 minutes ago, peperoncino.2516 said:

issue with your example is, you assume those who anet identified as "specific group of highly knowledgeable players" are actually that, and its not just a giant echo chamber, or anet just being wrong. i mean, even if all sides are competent, it still makes little sense to have basically no clear way for the community to have a say in the process, if such process even exists that is.

There are going to be issues with any approach to get feedback from players and the forum is no exception to that, so 'issues' can't be a reason to exclude anything BUT patch previews as the way Anet gets highly knowledgeable player feedback.

The forum is already a clear way for the community to have a say in the balancing process, it's just not necessary for Anet to provide previews for that to happen. 

39 minutes ago, peperoncino.2516 said:

as i said previously, forums might require an update here and there to help differentiate between more/less helpful posts. that said, publishing patch previews allows to both streamline a way of dev-player communications, and actually finally opens it up for both players and developers. meaning, community at large can, without a need to jump through current barely known about hoops, make arguments for and against planned changes, and if arguments are reasonable to both the community and the developers, then expect at least something out of it.

can work both ways, too! community will be able to hear reasons for proposed changes, or even argue those reasons.

Sure it allows it ... but that doesn't change the fact we don't need previews for Anet to get our feedback on changes. 

Edited October 14, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[peperoncino.2516]

36 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

OK ... still that doesn't prove we need previews.  We don't pay for 'balance process transparency' as customers. That's not something Anet has to share with us if they don't want to. 

well, what do we pay for? access to a live-service mmorpg game and its expansions seems about right, meaning, anet can just not care about balance/anything else at all..?

following your logic, none of the implemented systems are actually needed, for "what we pay for" is to... what exactly? game to function? either way, point is, those systems provide different ways for the overall betterment of the end product.

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

The process is not obvious? OK ... I doesn't need to be.

well, why? inclusivity will only be to the betterment of the process... or is it just that technically "it doesnt need to be"? kinda lost you there. 

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

There are going to be issues with any approach to get feedback from players and the forum is no exception to that.

exactly my point. the clearer, more transparent the system - the easier it is to navigate, to start and to continue working with, and only with a great deal of transparency you can actually examine issues of each approach to work around them.

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

The forum is already a clear way for the community to have a say in the balancing process, it's just not necessary for Anet to provide previews for that to happen. 

balance patch previews allow for catching things before they can harm general gameplay, which is, obviuosly, impossible without previews being published with feedback on it at least being processed. idea and end goal is same as behind beta/test servers, and those are pretty much a standart.

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Sure it allows it ... but that doesn't change the fact we don't need previews for Anet to get our feedback on changes. 

...? then how would it actually be possible to get feedback on upcoming changes without them? it can be in some other form, sure, but they still will need to show the community a preview of whats to come to get any feedback on it.

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, peperoncino.2516 said:

...? then how would it actually be possible to get feedback on upcoming changes without them? it can be in some other form, sure, but they still will need to show the community a preview of whats to come to get any feedback on it.

They wouldn't but that doesn't mean we need previews. Don't pretend Anet needs to give us those previews because they need the feedback from the heap of forum rando's  giving their significantly different opinions about how they THINK the changes will affect the game.

The most relevant measure of how some change affects the game is for it to be put IN the game and observe the impact. For the vast majority of changes, that's exactly what happens. 

Edited October 14, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[peperoncino.2516]

5 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Don't pretend Anet needs to give us those previews because they need the feedback from the heap of rando's on the forum about how they THINK the changes will affect the game.

which is why i also suggested a change to forums themselves, so that, in the end, there is a way to differentiate between quality of the feedback, for actually good feedback does exist here, albeit from time to time and it often does indeed appear buried under a lot of nonsense. 

5 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

They wouldn't but that doesn't mean we need previews.

but it also means that balance previews (or any form of feedback, really) will add to quality of the end product. so, theres apparently no "need" for said quality then?

5 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

The most relevant measure of how some change affects the game is for it to be put IN the game and observe the impact.

if that would be the case, noone would also have a need for beta versions/testing servers, or for any feedback for that matter. but, that is simply not the case, and vast majority of game companies consider those things a usual routine. i already explained as for why that is, so i wont bother.

Edited October 14, 2023 by peperoncino.2516

[Obtena.7952]

4 hours ago, peperoncino.2516 said:

but it also means that balance previews (or any form of feedback, really) will add to quality of the end product. so, theres apparently no "need" for said quality then?

I'm saying we don't need to see previews. Whatever quality you are claiming player feedback adds to the game is irrelevant to whatever need you want to claim exists to get previews.

I mean, people should be taking a hint here. If Anet don't give you a preview, clearly, that 'feedback quality' isn't desired for that patch instance. The need for previews is ONLY established by Anet's desire to get player feedback about a patch prior to it's release. 

4 hours ago, peperoncino.2516 said:

if that would be the case, noone would also have a need for beta versions/testing servers, or for any feedback for that matter. 

That doesn't make sense. The high value of observing how changes impact the game when implemented does not mean there isn't any value in the things you list here. 

Edited October 14, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[SeTect.5918]

41 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I'm saying we don't need to see previews.

No you are saying YOU dont need to see previews.

Some players want to prepare their equipment based on what they will lose. Sure, anet doesnt have to do that, but it would still be nice to see it.

Example: My only geared char is my engi atm. Imagine they nerf condi engi down. Lets say i cant change my gear in an instant because of lack of gold or something like that. Would be nice if i wouldve known before then ofc, dont u think?

Edited October 15, 2023 by SeTect.5918

[peperoncino.2516]

45 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That doesn't make sense. The high value of experience from seeing how changes impact the game once made does not mean there isn't any value in the things you list here. 

sorry, forgot everything needs to be spelled out.

if "high value of experience" really is as "high" as you claim it to be, then majority of game companies wont be offering to try patches out on a beta or a testing server, or make previews, or encourage feedback, etc. case in point, there obviously wont be a need, for they would just slap the patch to then observe the "high value" xD

in reality, it just takes investemnts of both time and moneys to implement either of those systems, and especially so to do a good job at it.

5 minutes ago, SeTect.5918 said:

Some players want to prepare their equipment based on what they will lose

that, too! your build might actually be unplayable after patch hits, so why not at least know about it in advance?

i, for one, am not gamer enough to practice ten different alts, yet still want to enjoy group content i was planning on, like raids, or fractals, or whatever really. previews will give plenty of time for a preparation, so you have an opportunity to tinker and see what else works for you weeks before you are forced to. 

45 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I don't know if there is no need for whatever quality you are claiming it adds to the game. I'm simply saying we don't need to see previews.

yes, that is exactly what i am talking about! you do not know and do not understand, refuse to observe and learn, yet are "simply saying we don't need".

the "quality" i was talking about is not being stuck waiting for yet another patch with a broken build or interactions, yknow like warriors were, or with some overnerfed prof, like nowadays ele, or, thats more of a case for implementing beta server, with bugging out skills/mechanics, like weaver is.

...

huh, you really do enjoy going in circles. i know cause i kinda did tag along lol

wait, are you about to tell me how anet does how they want? are you then to suggest not to overthink it? xDDD

Edited October 15, 2023 by peperoncino.2516

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, SeTect.5918 said:

No you are saying YOU dont need to see previews.

Some players want to prepare their equipment based on what they will lose. Sure, anet doesnt have to do that, but it would still be nice to see it.

Example: My only geared char is my engi atm. Imagine they nerf condi engi down. Lets say i cant change my gear in an instant because of lack of gold or something like that. Would be nice if i wouldve known before then ofc, dont u think?

No, I'm saying no one needs to see previews. Sure it's NICE to see it. That's doesn't establish a need. 

You want to prepare your equipment based on the changes? OK but if you don't get previews, that doesn't stop you from doing that once the changes are in the game either. Again, not getting previews doesn't prevent you from adapting your builds to those changes. It simply changes when you would do it. 

I would actually argue that anyone "preparing their equipment" prior to a patch based on a preview is doing so at their own jeopardy and it's a pre-mature move to do so because we know Anet can (and has) adjusted the changes even after they give previews and because the impact to those changes isn't actually known until we can test them ingame. 

Edited October 15, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, peperoncino.2516 said:

wait, are you about to tell me how anet does how they want? are you then to suggest not to overthink it? xDDD

I'm not going to suggest anything. You're simply going to tell me all these great reasons why we should get previews. I haven't disagreed there aren't good reasons to get them. I just understand those good reasons don't establish a need to get previews. The need for previews is only established if Anet wants player feedback prior to the patch. Obviously, there are cases, like this recent patch, where they didn't ... so there was no need to have a preview. 

Edited October 15, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[peperoncino.2516]

8 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

You're simply going to tell me all these great reasons why we should get previews. I haven't disagreed there aren't good reasons to get them. I just understand those good reasons don't establish a need to get previews.

so, and thats where we at, clear benefits of doing previews still do not "establish a need" of doing them, apparently.

9 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

The need for previews is only established if Anet wants player feedback prior to the patch. Obviously, there are cases, like this recent patch, where they didn't ... so there was no need to have a preview. 

okay, lets just say... thats one way to look at it... completely backwards that is.

but actually, what does "establishing a need" even mean? anyhow, said "need" does not exist in a vacuum, and like all needs will actually be present regardless of if its acknowledged by any/all parties involved. in the end, any "need" is just some part of the community arguing for the benefit of some decision, like healthcare, or police, or basic hygiene, or whatever - those are all considered as needs for some, but can and, infamously, previously were done without. lack of "establishment" of those needs, however, does not unexist any of them.

to reiterate, unwillingness of those making end decisions for a community to accept and cater to needs of people involved in a said community does not mean said needs suddenly cease to exist. in this case, a need can be denied, or accepted and supported, or ignored, but will still exist regardless.

funniest thing, in reality, it actually works other way around - needs are in the end get to be accepted and supported by decisional bodies as something to provide, like healthcare, or police, or work ethics, etc.

[Obtena.7952]

2 hours ago, peperoncino.2516 said:

so, and thats where we at, clear benefits of doing previews still do not "establish a need" of doing them, apparently.

That's right because that need is based on information Anet wants from players for their balance process. Getting previews has nothing to do whatever needs players think they have for them. If Anet feels that there is benefit in giving us previews, we will get them. Obviously there are instances where that benefit isn't significant enough to Anet to provide previews, likely because our feedback isn't necessary for that patch. 

Bottomline: If we get previews, it's because Anet wants our feedback prior to patch release

 

Edited October 15, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[peperoncino.2516]

35 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That's right because that need is based on information Anet wants from players for their balance process. Getting previews has nothing to do whatever needs players think they have for them. If Anet feels that there is benefit in giving us previews, we will get them. Obviously there are instances where that benefit isn't significant enough to Anet to provide previews, likely because our feedback isn't necessary for that patch. 

a need in question exists for both players and anet, how come you cannot realise it? we, players, "need" balance previews to judge what will happen in an upcoming patch, to tinker with builds so we are ready for it, whatever reason really, and maybe even give our feedback. while anet can also use this opportunity to take in some of the feedback or share/discuss ideas. or can not use, it does not really matter, for players part of a "need" for this process exists regardless of what anets wishes. players need in this case might not be fulfilled, sure, but it will exist regardless.

i cannot stand to repeat it any more times, even if anet is against taking any part in basically this whole process, or any process for that matter, it still will not diminish players need for benefits said process brings.

42 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Bottomline: If we get previews, it's because Anet wants our feedback prior to patch release

again, please focus, for you keep missing my point. while yes, end decision on how to screw with their game is entirely up to people at anet, it does not exactly affect the players need of balance previews.

[Obtena.7952]

7 hours ago, peperoncino.2516 said:

a need in question exists for both players and anet, how come you cannot realise it? we, players, "need" balance previews to judge what will happen in an upcoming patch, to tinker with builds so we are ready for it, whatever reason really, and maybe even give our feedback. 

Because I'm not re-inventing what 'need' means to justify getting previews. It's NICE if you can get a preview to judge what will happen in the upcoming patch ... but it's not needed. I know you don't want to acknowledge it but if you are making changes to your play based on previews, Anet is doing you a favour by not providing them because those judgements are likely to be inaccurate. Judgements made after the patch is released are 100% accurate because they are based on what a player is actually doing in the game with those changes. 

But I mean, if your argument is that people need to make inaccurate judgements to change their play based on previews ... then it's pretty clear why the last patch was not previewed and why most players' feedback based on previews is completely worthless.

7 hours ago, peperoncino.2516 said:

while yes, end decision on how to screw with their game is entirely up to people at anet, it does not exactly affect the players need of balance previews.

That's about the oddest thing you have written thus far. Maybe it's poorly written but when I read this, it seems you are indicating there is some player need for previews besides seeing how Anet propose tochange the game. What is the need players have for previews if it's NOT about seeing how Anet propose to change the game? If there IS some need, it's most certainly not fulfilled with a preview, because seeing how Anet proposes to change the game is the only information those previews have. 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[GamerToad.9248]

On 10/11/2023 at 6:58 PM, Barraind.7324 said:

Meanwhile, balance is probably the best this patch its ever been, minus a couple outliers on the unacceptably low end. 

There are ~28 dps builds, including power, condi, and hybrid, all within 3k of each other, and dps boons are in a similar state

PvE is not only thing that exists in the game.. competitive modes is a mess right now.

[peperoncino.2516]

10 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That's about the oddest thing you have written thus far.

entirely because you either lack comprehension, or are being dishonest.

10 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Because I'm not re-inventing what 'need' means to justify getting previews. It's NICE if you can get a preview to judge what will happen in the upcoming patch ... but it's not needed.

do you know the definition of the word? if so, do you understand it? it is "nice" exactly because it allows for things, like preparing builds and judging state of whatever is about to change, which are otherwise impossible. hence, they are "needed" for said things.

10 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

But I mean, if your argument is that people need to make inaccurate judgements to change their play based on previews ... then it's pretty clear why the last patch was not previewed and why most players' feedback based on previews is completely worthless.

while it is true that "most players" lack the ability to judge accurately, how exactly will it be different to those same "most players" making "inaccurate" judgements after the patch hits?

players will be facing those changes either way when patch hits. difference is, without previews, now all players and not "most players", which means including those who not lack the ability needed for an accurate judgement, all will just have to adapt at the same time.

which leaves us with some of those "most players" with inability to accurately judge what changes mean what, but who also understand their inability, in a not so great place, for there wont be any feedback at all - even from players who are entirely able to judge accurately. 

10 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

because seeing how Anet proposes to change the game is the only information those previews have.

at least that we both can fully agree on. good job 🙂

p.s.

Spoiler

On 10/14/2023 at 10:06 AM, zeyeti.8347 said:

Ah yes just a little rant , for those arguing with Obtena : Trust me it's not worth your time , ignore him as i did, or you ll get stucked in an infinite loop of "it doesnt matter" "you are nonsensical".

i might be a sweet summer child, but i also am a believer xD

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by peperoncino.2516

[Obtena.7952]

5 hours ago, peperoncino.2516 said:

do you know the definition of the word? if so, do you understand it? it is "nice" exactly because it allows for things, like preparing builds and judging state of whatever is about to change, which are otherwise impossible. hence, they are "needed" for said things.

Sure ... IF we needed to do those things, we would need previews ... except we don't need to do those things so we don't need previews because of those things.

5 hours ago, peperoncino.2516 said:

players will be facing those changes either way when patch hits

That's right, so previews are actually redundant. They aren't needed for players to be able to adjust to the changes once they are in game. 

The best part is that the history of the game already proves we don't need previews because there was a long period where we didn't get them ... and it wasn't a problem. 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[peperoncino.2516]

5 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Sure ... IF you need to do those things, you would need previews ... except you don't need to do those things so you don't need them.

well i be damned, you actually do not understand the definition of a word "need"xD

i suggest you read it up and then come back enlightened. hint-hint, "to want something very much", cause you dont get hints.

or are those dictionary-type dudes also "trying to re-invent the word"? lmao, you basically treat "need" only as "necessity", which is both wrong and is somewhat hillarious xD

5 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

They aren't needed for players to be able to adjust to the changes once they are in game. 

ok? i was not saying they are necessary tho, yet again you miss the point.

state of (not) having previews affects needs of those people who want to see previews, period. it does not matter if change is forced on them in the end, or if their judgement is inaccurate, or whatever, for if they really want to look previews - to tinker with builds prepatch, to be ready for all the changes when the patch hits, or for the overall quality previews tend to give - they by the definition have a need, because they need previews to do any of those actions.

therefore, previews become needed for at least those described players from that point on..

5 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

The best part is that the history of the game already proves we don't need previews because there was a long period where we didn't get them ... and it wasn't a problem.

...

seriously, what are you on about? besides having almost nothing to do with the point, your argument is basically "it historically was like that, i see no issues, it might as well stay the same" which is pretty much the worst argument for support of anything - it does no job of arguing for or against benefits, or about the process itself, and is only really spoken from the ignorance to the issue at hand.

dunno what to say, you clearly outdone yourself here.

so, yeah. in the end, previews still are considered "needed" for as long as there is at least a single soul with a need for them, no matter the circumstances or why for. single soul also does not have to be anet, for unfulfilled needs do exist.

or will you straight up argue with the definition? will you now "re-invent the word", but actually? i cannot xDDD 

Edited October 16, 2023 by peperoncino.2516

[Obtena.7952]

57 minutes ago, peperoncino.2516 said:

state of (not) having previews affects needs of those people who want to see previews, period.

Sure ... but that doesn't mean people need them, period. Wanting to see previews does not equal needing them. 

57 minutes ago, peperoncino.2516 said:

besides having almost nothing to do with the point, your argument is basically "it historically was like that, i see no issues, it might as well stay the same"

No, my argument is that history proves we don't need previews, which is entirely what this thread is about. So if what I'm saying has nothing to do with whatever point you have, it's not really a big concern to me to not argue with you about some point that has nothing to do with the fact that players don't need previews. 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[peperoncino.2516]

17 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Sure ... but that doesn't mean people need them, period. Wanting does not equal needing. 

my guy, i advised you to check it yourself and i also literally copied you a cambridge dictionary definition of the word - "to want something very much".

granted, you can disagree with the literal definition of the word, but ever thought what will that speak of you considering your claim of 

19 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

re-inventing what 'need' means

xD

and some players really do have a need for previews to accomplish any of things they really want to do, for accomplishment of them is impossible without previews - cant tinker with a build before patch hits, cant get yourself ready for when it does hit, whatever really.

therefore, by the definition, those players have what consitutes a need of previews, and previews themselves in turn become needed from that point on. again, by the definition.

huh, getting a feeling of déjà vu.

24 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

In case you didn't notice, I'm not all that interested in arguing with you about some point that has nothing to do with the fact that players don't need previews. 

honestly, mood. except that you once again think of a "need" as if its something completely else. "necessary" perhaps? whatever the case, i never argued that they are anything else but needed.

otherwise, absolute mood.

[Obtena.7952]

Players wanting to do something with previews does not mean Anet needs to give them previews. Ask me how I know. 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[peperoncino.2516]

2 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Players wanting to do something with previews does not mean Anet needs to give them previews. Ask me how I know. 

stop, for you once again completely missed the point.

it does not matter if anet provides, for, going by the literal definition, what you describe are just unfulfilled needs - but needs nontheless.

even logically, it matters none if someone for whatever reason is not able to get previews, or more like anything, really. peoples needs will exist regardless actual availability of what is deemed as needed.

come to think of it, real world is a good enough example of that.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

26 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Players wanting to do something with previews does not mean Anet needs to give them previews. Ask me how I know. 

In regards to proper communication between developer and playerbase, yes they are needed. As are a lot of methods and instances of communication ANet also has difficulty keeping to or doing on a consistent enough basis or in a well enough executed manner.

They need to do this, other companies do, other companies also made efforts to make publicly available Test Servers to get direct feedback on incoming changes. WoW does this, Lost Ark does this (in KR as updates happen there months prior to them being ready for release to the west), Black Desert does this (its called Global Labs), New World does this.

I am not going to lie, Obtena, often times when you debate/argue these points I often think you just simply have not actually gone to any other game and seen what other developer studios do when it comes to communication, interaction, marketing and handling of their communities. I am not kidding when I say Amazon Games Studio literally does a better job than ANet in the communication department with their playerbase, thats how low the bar is that ANet sets here. It often times feels like ANets marketing and communication teams are stuck in 2010.

I am genuinely curious as to what your experiences are, if any, with other games and their communities and how the devs interact with their communities because the points you attempt to make here and the things you say really makes it seem like you haven't seen much of anything outside of how ANet does things.

[Obtena.7952]

2 hours ago, KryTiKaL.3125 said:

In regards to proper communication between developer and playerbase, yes they are needed. As are a lot of methods and instances of communication ANet also has difficulty keeping to or doing on a consistent enough basis or in a well enough executed manner.

They need to do this, other companies do, other companies also made efforts to make publicly available Test Servers to get direct feedback on incoming changes. WoW does this, Lost Ark does this (in KR as updates happen there months prior to them being ready for release to the west), Black Desert does this (its called Global Labs), New World does this.

We aren't being communicated to properly if we don't get previews? That's a rather subjective statement. We didn't get previews this time, but Anet still communicated the intent of the patch changes to make us aware of what to expect. The funny thing about this whole thread is that there are AWESOME reasons Anet should continue to provide previews ... but players convinced they need them isn't one of them. 

I'm not really fussed about what other companies do, nor is it relevant to what Anet does. Maybe you think it's some standard should meet. I don't think anyone should expect more from a company than what they pay for. 

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[KryTiKaL.3125]

5 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

We aren't being communicated to properly if we don't get previews? That's not really accurate. We didn't get previews this time, but Anet still properly communicated the intent of the patch changes to make people aware of what to expect. The funny thing about this whole thread is that there are AWESOME reasons Anet should continue to provide previews ... but players convinced they need them isn't one of them. 

I'm not really fussed about what other companies do, nor is it relevant to what Anet does. IF those things matter to a player and they don't get them from Anet, they do what any other customer of a company does when they aren't satisfied. 

 

It isn't just the previews, its other things like notifications of when events are running and how they work and how that information is distributed, what feedback is being considered and where best to post it, if feedback is being considered, updates on roadmaps, responses to broad player concerns, etc, etc.

Also you may not be "fussed" about what other companies do, but I can assure you it provides a great deal of context and comparison to the relationship other companies have with their communities. These are important variables and have become ever increasingly important variables and considerations in the industry as more and more players themselves are pushing for more transparency and communication from these entities running and designing these games.

Also your implication in that final thought of yours is pretty direct in its consequences; the more this occurs the more people voice displeasure or dissatisfaction with the current state of things, which is the exact thing being done in this thread, or they leave the game and find somewhere else to go. Which I do recommend doing if anyone is that unsatisfied with their experience on any game.