If you don’t think Rabid Amulet is problematic…

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

8 minutes ago, ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

Condi berserker is the only functionable rabid build.

Saying that doesn't make it so.

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And besides, rabid is never a healthy amulet, even outside of condi berserker.

If this was true you shouldn't be able to hold the opinion above this one.  You're proposing both extremes (it works too well) (it doesn't work well enough to be picked) but neither is true. 

Warrior being balanced is important, but it's not important enough that otherwise not-problematic amulets should be removed from the pool of options just so skull grinder doesn't get a mild tapping. 

Edited October 20, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Lonecap.4105]

4 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Saying that doesn't make it so.

If this was true you shouldn't be able to hold the opinion above this one.  You're proposing both extremes (it works too well) (it doesn't work well enough to be picked) but neither is true. 

I can slap together any condi build and put rabid on it, but that doesn’t mean it’s good, or that it can’t also work fine with carrion - it’s not like power builds get a real choice of amulet. Anything outside of berserker amulet can’t even do relevant damage.

And both extremes are true. The amulet is obnoxious on the handful of specs that have the HP to slot it, and it’s not a viable option on ones that don’t.

I will say though I respect you for making actual arguments, instead of having a childish tantrum like some people in this topic.

[arazoth.7290]

7 minutes ago, ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

I can slap together any condi build and put rabid on it, but that doesn’t mean it’s good, or that it can’t also work fine with carrion - it’s not like power builds get a real choice of amulet. Anything outside of berserker amulet can’t even do relevant damage.

And both extremes are true. The amulet is obnoxious on the handful of specs that have the HP to slot it, and it’s not a viable option on ones that don’t.

I will say though I respect you for making actual arguments, instead of having a childish tantrum like some people in this topic.

by this logic they should('nt) remove berserker amulet because many high dps and some 1 shot builds. If that would be removed for same logic, it would be bad too. Since again, removing an amulet isn't solving the problem that lays un traits or abilties or both together. And 1 more why I am not going in detail on warrior what precise is the problem for changing, because I don't play it. So I don't know precise where the problem originates from, I leave that discussion part for others who do and have more experience.

I am just looking at the allround picture WHY for other classes/builds it is less atm or why suddenly some time ago this build became meta. It is because certain changes in abilties/traits over many patches did it. Rabid build just by change fitted these changes, it could have happened with other amulets too. So if in the future something happens and suddenly another amulet fits and makes it tough, it should be removed too?

You see the problem you're trying create? Probably not and you're going to argument again. So I am going to grab some 🍿and enjoy this one ^^

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

14 minutes ago, ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

I can slap together any condi build and put rabid on it, but that doesn’t mean it’s good, or that it can’t also work fine with carrion

True, but there are a number of builds that exist right now that do work, or that are being used by players that have made them work. I don't think we have the budget to ask them to rebuild with carrion or sage, especially if their builds require precision.

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- it’s not like power builds get a real choice of amulet. Anything outside of berserker amulet can’t even do relevant damage.

Assassin works fine. I run that on power zerker when I run blood reaction, because you can crit-cap on assassin on some builds.

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And both extremes are true. The amulet is obnoxious on the handful of specs that have the HP to slot it, and it’s not a viable option on ones that don’t.

It's only generally obnoxious on condizerker, otherwise you'd be able to think of other builds that may run it off the top of your head. That being said, I have seen a few rangers and weird engineer players run it for shenanigans, and shenanigans are the lifeblood of pvp. It also is a go-to for a herald sparring partner of mine who's been running Mallyx for the better part of...four ish years now? Maybe more?

Anyhow, which is easier? nuking those or -1 confusion? 

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I will say though I respect you for making actual arguments, instead of having a childish tantrum like some people in this topic.

I try to give people the respect they earn.

[Lonecap.4105]

6 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

True, but there are a number of builds that exist right now that do work, or that are being used by players that have made them work. I don't think we have the budget to ask them to rebuild with carrion or sage, especially if their builds require precision.

I do sympathise with people running off-meta rabid builds that are perhaps not neccessarily good builds even with rabid. I play off-meta power berserker. And when they nerfed eternal champion and savage instinct, my build was needlessly nerfed in an attempt to address solely condition berserker. Well? Czerk remains unphased by those changes, it still has it's own personal sustain amplied by rabid. 

Since rabid is only so effective on Warrior, because of it's base HP, and since you have raised valid concerns that I admit I was insensitive to, then I'd ask you your thoughts on adjusting the stat spread of Rabid, rather than an outright deletion: 1000/1000 precision+condition damage, 400/400 toughness/vitality. This way, it actually hits warrior being able to stack so much armor rating, while helping out the builds that want to use rabid but have a lower health pool.

[Kuma.1503]

1 hour ago, ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

I do sympathise with people running off-meta rabid builds that are perhaps not neccessarily good builds even with rabid. I play off-meta power berserker. And when they nerfed eternal champion and savage instinct, my build was needlessly nerfed in an attempt to address solely condition berserker. Well? Czerk remains unphased by those changes, it still has it's own personal sustain amplied by rabid. 

Since rabid is only so effective on Warrior, because of it's base HP, and since you have raised valid concerns that I admit I was insensitive to, then I'd ask you your thoughts on adjusting the stat spread of Rabid, rather than an outright deletion: 1000/1000 precision+condition damage, 400/400 toughness/vitality. This way, it actually hits warrior being able to stack so much armor rating, while helping out the builds that want to use rabid but have a lower health pool.

So you're suggesting giving rabid:

+100 precision 

+ 400 vitality 

- 200 condition damage 

- 500 toughness

For a net loss of - 200 stats

 

I see what you're trying to do here, but this still effectively deletes Rabid from the game. The same way nerfing paladin was no different from axing it from the game. Giving up 200 stats is  never worth it. People will pick an un-nerfed amulet with sub-optimal stats before they pick a nerfed amulet with optimal stats.  

To put this nerf in perspective. 1 stack of might is 30 power. Losing 200 stat points is the rough equivalent of losing -6.66 stacks of might worth of stats compared to anyone not using a nerfed amulet. No build wants to make this trade-off. People would simply swap to swashbucklers/wizard if they need precision + condi. or Carrion/sage if they want tankiness + condi. Any build reliant on rabid would cease to exist. 

 

Azure's suggestion is better. Target nerf the problematic build. Leave amulets alone. 

Edited October 20, 2023 by Kuma.1503

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Rabid is fine. Get off it.

[Sweetbread.3678]

Honestly if they aren't going to fix the terrrrrribly designed Condi system in this game so that Expertise / Condi Duration aren't completely useless and it actually requires more than one stat to reach peak dps in pvp then there probably shouldn't even be an amulet with 1200 Condi damage on it at all. It's always been absurd that Power damage requires three stats to Condi's one.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Deleting amulets is never the answer. Targeted nerfs are. Remove one stack of confusion from skullgrinder and put it on pommel bash. Make it a combo rather than a all in one skill.

[Dreams.3128]

On 10/20/2023 at 9:56 AM, ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

We can all agree that Bladesworn sustain is especially obnoxious.

Imagine for a moment, that Bladesworn is able to deal condition damage with even the slightest bit of efficiency. It now slots Rabid.

Incase you didn’t know, Rabid is like having permanent protection, since 900 toughness is roughly equivalent to -33% incoming power damage.

This is why the balance team wastes their time and steps on the toes of other existing builds like power berserker when trying to address condition berserker. Just delete rabid, it’s not a healthy amulet.

Only condition berserker is even running this amulet.

Now I'm going to say this again: 

EVERY time people ask to get an amulet deleted, PvP gets worse. I am warning you now, there were people just like YOU who vouched for most if not all support-like amulets to be deleted and we barely have two support builds (maybe three if we include druid). This is the only game where I see people trying to push the deletion of raw stats instead of just ADJUSTING the stat value itself like any normal company. a

 

Also, seeing threads like this affirms the reason why I remain in WvW for my PvP itch. 

Edited October 22, 2023 by Dreams.3128

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

12 minutes ago, Dreams.3128 said:

Now I'm going to say this again: 

EVERY time people ask to get an amulet deleted, PvP gets worse. I am warning you now, there were people just like YOU who vouched for most if not all support-like amulets to be deleted and we barely have two support builds (maybe three if we include druid). This is the only game where I see people trying to push the deletion of raw stats instead of just ADJUSTING the stat value itself like any normal company. a

 

Also, seeing threads like this affirms the reason why I remain in WvW for my PvP itch. 

The wvw side has threads like this one wanting celestial removed from the game.

[Dreams.3128]

Just now, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

The wvw side has threads like this one wanting celestial removed from the game.

As someone who plays in WvW consistently now and has fought against cele builds, they're not as bad as people think. Yea, they have ticking boons, but most people that play them are really bad. Even the ones that aren't bad, they use cele as a cushion that really doesn't prevent them from taking more damage. It's more for boons than anything else, which is solved by the boon strip through skills/sigils.

They're annoying but not impossible like people claim. Just like in PvP majority doesn't know how to properly play their class.