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[Psycoprophet.8107]

51 minutes ago, Spellhunter.9675 said:

Ranger already has blocks, evades, biggest range in the game (with LB), best melee weapon in the game (GS), good amount of sustain, addition utility in form of pets etc. Even glassiest ranger builds have more def capabilities than some classes. There is no reason for it to has it's own stealth on a pet with already good damage and utility. I'd say ranger shoud not have stealth access at all.

  

It is free because you are not sacrificing anything to get it.

Ranger shouldnt have stealth? Stealth is almost as integral to the ranger archetype as it is with thief/rogue so no thanks, especially since it's nowhere even close to a overperforming mechanic on ranger as it currently is. Ranger has one block on gs, many other classes have blocks on their weapon kits as well as on thier utility skills, to many to list so ur point is? And ur point about it being free makes zero sense as u sacrifice taking SC over another pet, it has a very noticeable cast time and telegraph, ranger had to use a weapon cd to leap thru etc etc. Post like urs are why the forums are a laughing meme now, literal delusional bias comments regarding classes u dislike lmao pathetic.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Psycoprophet.8107

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

2 hours ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

Ranger shouldnt have stealth? Stealth is almost as integral to the ranger archetype as it is with thief/rogue so no thanks, especially since it's nowhere even close to a overperforming mechanic on ranger as it currently is. Ranger has one block on gs, many other classes have blocks on their weapon kits as well as on thier utility skills, to many to list so ur point is? And ur point about it being free makes zero sense as u sacrifice taking SC over another pet, it has a very noticeable cast time and telegraph, ranger had to use a weapon cd to leap thru etc etc. Post like urs are why the forums are a laughing meme now, literal delusional bias comments regarding classes u dislike lmao pathetic.

Ranger stealth is fine. What I'd like is for lightning reflexes to have a higher CD though, given the fact that rangers can bombard you from range, disappear into thin air and make you guess whether they are repositioning or about to maul you, then have a 24 second cd stunbreak that evades when you happen to catch them -while- you're also dealing with their pet. It takes 24 seconds for you to wait out their stealthchain rotation/block/block reversal to begin with

But that's just me. 

Edited November 2, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Psycoprophet.8107]

7 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Ranger stealth is fine. What I'd like is for lightning reflexes to have a higher CD though, given the fact that rangers can bombard you from range, disappear into thin air and make you guess whether they are repositioning or about to maul you, then have a 24 second cd stunbreak that evades when you happen to catch them -while- you're also dealing with their pet.

But that's just me. 

Thing is most utility skills that are evades share similar cd as lighting reflexes along with thier own other effects. Roll for ini is longer tho at 28 but others are similar iirc that is.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Psycoprophet.8107

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

3 minutes ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

Thing is most utility skills that are evades share similar cd as lighting reflexes along with thier own other effects. Roll for ini is longer tho at 28 but others are similar iirc that is.

Roll for ini is 35 in pvp. I wish it was 28.

That's recent too. It used to be 50.

Lightning Reflexes seems to have escaped this balancing notion.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[aymnad.9023]

2 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Roll for ini is 35 in pvp. I wish it was 28.

That's recent too. It used to be 50.

Lightning Reflexes seems to have escaped this balancing notion.

Ignoring similar utilities on other professions is a bad sign but comparing without looking at the full picture is nonsense. Roll for ini does not risk breaking stealth or triggering enemies effects AND (most importantly) has more effects with one very unique mechanic that will greatly impact the fight.

Now if you think making your opponent use resources is bad I wonder what you would think about builds having almost perma stab without even looking at any utility or other defense options (evades / stunbreaks). You can find thinks you do not enjoy to fight but that does not mean they are wrong or there is not something equivalent on profession X.

Edited November 2, 2023 by aymnad.9023

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

9 minutes ago, aymnad.9023 said:

Ignoring similar utilities on other professions is a bad sign but comparing not looking at the full picture is nonsense. Roll for ini does not risk breaking stealth or triggering enemies effects AND (most importantly) has more effects with one very unique mechanic that will greatly impact the fight.

Okay, remove the damage packet as well then.

9 minutes ago, aymnad.9023 said:

 

Now if you think making your opponent use resources is bad I wonder what you would think about builds having almost perma stab without even looking at any utility or other defense options (evades / stunbreaks). You can find thinks you do not enjoy to fight but that does not mean they are wrong or there is not something equivalent on profession X.

I don't dislike fighting rangers, and I don't dislike making them use resources.  My problem is with the availability of one resource that's inexplicably low cooldown.

I dislike that you need to triple stun them to get them to hold still, within 24 seconds, when it already protects itself with stealth and blocks and can do solid damage from a variety of ranges. None of that other stuff is concerning, but free escapes every 24 seconds is kind of much. 

Longer window to burst them is reasonable. I don't think I'm asking for anything outside of what the other professions need to deal with. 

Edited November 2, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Psycoprophet.8107]

14 minutes ago, aymnad.9023 said:

Ignoring similar utilities on other professions is a bad sign but comparing without looking at the full picture is nonsense. Roll for ini does not risk breaking stealth or triggering enemies effects AND (most importantly) has more effects with one very unique mechanic that will greatly impact the fight.

Now if you think making your opponent use resources is bad I wonder what you would think about builds having almost perma stab without even looking at any utility or other defense options (evades / stunbreaks). You can find thinks you do not enjoy to fight but that does not mean they are wrong or there is not something equivalent on profession X.

Of course u have to look at the whole picture when comparing skills/classes, that's why I mentioned the part of "with their own effects". My analysis of lightning reflexes cd was just a broad look saying it's cd is pretty in line with other elite skills that include evade frames, of course there's further nuances to each.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

21 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Okay, remove the damage packet as well then.

I don't dislike fighting rangers, and I don't dislike making them use resources.  My problem is with the availability of one resource that's inexplicably low cooldown.

I dislike that you need to triple stun them to get them to hold still, within 24 seconds, when it already protects itself with stealth and blocks and can do solid damage from a variety of ranges. None of that other stuff is concerning, but free escapes every 24 seconds is kind of much. 

Longer window to burst them is reasonable. I don't think I'm asking for anything outside of what the other professions need to deal with. 

I agree damage should be removed from reflexes, wierd it's there anyways. Movement impairment removal, evade and stun break is enough for one skill. That said roll for ini returns ini on top of  doing basically same thing, so if reflexes had the insignificant damage removed and replaced with lower last skills weapon cd by 2 secs or so  I'd expect I'd be 35 sec or so cd to, that ini return is pretty great part of the skill aside from the stunbreak and evade lol.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Psycoprophet.8107

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

29 minutes ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

I agree damage should be removed from reflexes, wierd it's there anyways. Movement impairment removal, evade and stun break is enough for one skill. That said roll for ini returns ini on top of  doing basically same thing, so if reflexes had the insignificant damage removed and replaced with lower last skills weapon cd by 2 secs or so  I'd expect I'd be 35 sec or so cd to, that ini return is pretty great part of the skill aside from the stunbreak and evade lol.

It also grants you 10 seconds of vigor, which is an extra dodge in 7 seconds instead of 10 (10 seconds normally for one dodge at 5 end per second, vigor makes it 7.5, so 50 end in 7 seconds) , but sure; go for it. 2 sec cd reduction is fine.

Quote

that ini return is pretty great part of the skill aside from the stunbreak and evade lol.

It used to be. It's 4 init now which is one extra skill out of a limited pool of skills. Most of thief damage skills cost 5-6. 

Edited November 2, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[aymnad.9023]

4 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Okay, remove the damage packet as well then.

I don't dislike fighting rangers, and I don't dislike making them use resources.  My problem is with the availability of one resource that's inexplicably low cooldown.

I dislike that you need to triple stun them to get them to hold still, within 24 seconds, when it already protects itself with stealth and blocks and can do solid damage from a variety of ranges. None of that other stuff is concerning, but free escapes every 24 seconds is kind of much. 

Longer window to burst them is reasonable. I don't think I'm asking for anything outside of what the other professions need to deal with. 

I see your point. But there are just so many combination and mechanics that I dislike on every professions (on defense AND offense) yet I struggle to see how they could get changed without breaking some builds (same thing for the buffs suggestions that I see on the forums). It also is what allows profession identity / uniqueness.

I know it will sounds like I pick bulls charge just for contradiction (and it kind of is) but I mean it when I say that I find the cd too short. I dislike the long range evade giving either a free engage / disengage and the long cc it provides. Even worst when it gets added to a kit that is really defensive / cc heavy.

I am fairly sure that I will see comments telling me that it is mandatory for its engage + setup but on the other side I used to play a lot of ranger and felt the lack of stability for years which has to be counterbalanced by stunbreaks. War hates the in / out of ranger and ranger hates the cc of war. But again I can say it for every professions.

edit : at best vigor uptime can be changed but I do not see any reason to increase the cd on lightning reflexes

Edited November 2, 2023 by aymnad.9023

[Last Crab.6054]

On 10/30/2023 at 1:25 AM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Not RNG my dude.  

On pet swap smokescale will do smoke assault then takedown--all pets have patterns like this.

Also, again, not the only pet with a non-F2 CC.

L2P?

remove pet actions on down, including swap

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 hour ago, Last Crab.6054 said:

remove pet actions on down, including swap

As long as you remove downstate across the board, sure.  

[Last Crab.6054]

2 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

As long as you remove downstate across the board, sure.  

no, ranger shouldn't have access to any skills other than down skills, just like every other class. 

this isn't even a fair comparison.

 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

3 hours ago, Last Crab.6054 said:

no, ranger shouldn't have access to any skills other than down skills, just like every other class. 

this isn't even a fair comparison.

 

The pet is not the ranger...are you new to the game? 

Just stealth before you stomp or apply stab like any normal person would and you'll be fine.  

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

12 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

The pet is not the ranger.

It's the ranger's mechanic, which gets removed on every other class upon entering downstate. Why do you get weirdly obtuse whenever people point these things out and start arguing semantics instead of the point? You're sharp as a knife when it comes to anything but ranger.

In theory, keep it for lick wounds and autos, but swap should be locked so you cant stack 3 ccs on top of people trying to cleave you while also having the strongest self rez in the game.

This is pointless shadowboxing anyway, they won't do that, people would howl in pve, and the interactions in situations where this matters (while frustrating when they carry the ranger) are limited. 99% of cases ranger dies.

And since smokescale can't KD anymore as of next patch it's less of an issue, because most rangers will continue to run it for smoke field, I assume. 

Still though, Crab's right.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Remove downstate from pvp entirely is best way to go about balancing downstate, leave downstate in pve where rangers downstate is fine cuz its pve so who cares. If u don't remove downstate from pvp I'd be fine with pet not being able to to rez ranger as it is a bit op but at same time remove every single insta rez skill from every class like guardian etc. It's very annoying to work for a kill to just have a player insta rez them with a utility skill.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

It's the ranger's mechanic, which gets removed on every other class upon entering downstate.

Annoying how topics always devolve into downstate discussion.  Anyway, engis mech can still attack you during downstate, warrior can get up and fight after a certain period of time using all their mechanics, thief can still stealth and shadowstep, necro can still condi bomb you from downstate...etc. etc.

The complaining about a few pet CC's is nuts when half the time it's on CD and you can't swap to the other one anyway.  So at least 50% of the time you are only eating one potential CC if the pet has it, and all that can be avoided by either stealth stomp, stab, or simply waiting the short CC out and re-stomping (same as you'd have to with thunderclap, guard bubble, rev knockback, etc.).

Also, I know this is mainly only a forum problem as from my experience ingame I always get complemented for actually using the pet in downstate.  I can't think of many rangers I fight against that do it.

Finally, call it 'obtuse' but all this downstate complaining? You really can only do chain CC to great effect if you are Untamed--as that smokescale KD? Can't use it on your own in downstate if not Untamed. 

Basically, it's not even baseline across the specs as you can only control one spec and IIRC you can't unleash and leash in downstate, so the pet has to be unleashed when you go down or you get no CC's at all.  

Edited November 3, 2023 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Marxx.5021]

As for sPvP related balance changes I would say game designers are shitting on you and you don't even notice.

[Sweetbread.3678]

21 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

The pet is not the ranger...are you new to the game? 

Just stealth before you stomp or apply stab like any normal person would and you'll be fine.  

Well 2 stabs, because ranger inexplicably gets a full extra cc ability in downstate, but hey it's Ranger so why would anyone ever expect you to be honest about any of this kitten, ever? Such a pathetic joke.

[Rap Tiger.1257]

42 minutes ago, Sweetbread.3678 said:

Well 2 stabs, because ranger inexplicably gets a full extra cc ability in downstate, but hey it's Ranger so why would anyone ever expect you to be honest about any of this kitten, ever? Such a pathetic joke.

if you are dying to rangers in downstate because of a cc, I recommend that you train until you leave the bronze or silver tier, if I die to any class in downstate I will be ashamed to come here to complain....

[Rap Tiger.1257]

On 11/2/2023 at 1:27 PM, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Ranger stealth is fine. What I'd like is for lightning reflexes to have a higher CD though, given the fact that rangers can bombard you from range, disappear into thin air and make you guess whether they are repositioning or about to maul you, then have a 24 second cd stunbreak that evades when you happen to catch them -while- you're also dealing with their pet. It takes 24 seconds for you to wait out their stealthchain rotation/block/block reversal to begin with

But that's just me. 

for that there is stun, I tried to use lightning reflex and I have to tell you that it didn't help me much, warrior with ax gave me a stun, I used lightning reflex and took two other attacks with stun, being paralyzed, nothing resolved, I had to use stance dolyak same.

[Rap Tiger.1257]

On 11/2/2023 at 9:55 AM, Spellhunter.9675 said:

Ranger already has blocks, evades, biggest range in the game (with LB), best melee weapon in the game (GS), good amount of sustain, addition utility in form of pets etc. Even glassiest ranger builds have more def capabilities than some classes. There is no reason for it to has it's own stealth on a pet with already good damage and utility. I'd say ranger shoud not have stealth access at all.

  

It is free because you are not sacrificing anything to get it.

You must be new to PvP, it is recommended that you fight against bladesworn, it has everything you described about rangers and much more, such as druid healing, soulbeast damage with pets in beastmode, untamed defense, stun, stunbreak, aegis, unblockable, all that's missing is stealth and invulnerability for bladesworn to become the game's demi-god in PvP

[Sweetbread.3678]

6 minutes ago, Rap Tiger.1257 said:

if you are dying to rangers in downstate because of a cc, I recommend that you train until you leave the bronze or silver tier, if I die to any class in downstate I will be ashamed to come here to complain....

It's about being able to get a stomp off, you pathetic dumbkitten. Sorry you need a gigantic crutch, but that isn't actually a reason for Ranger to get a free Warrior/Necro downstate 2 on top of the rest of their already substantial downstate abilities. Like, kitten you'd think just having Lick Wounds would be enough of a handout, but nope, not for Rangers. I guess when your entire class is explicitly designed to be low-skill/high-reward certain expectations are set.

[Rap Tiger.1257]

23 minutes ago, Sweetbread.3678 said:

É sobre ser capaz de dar uma surra, seu idiota patético. Desculpe, você precisa de uma muleta gigantesca, mas isso não é realmente uma razão para o Ranger obter um Warrior / Necro downstate 2 grátis além do resto de suas já substanciais habilidades no downstate. Tipo, gatinha, você pensaria que apenas lamber feridas seria uma esmola suficiente, mas não, não para Rangers. Eu acho que quando toda a sua turma é explicitamente projetada para ser de baixa habilidade/alta recompensa, certas expectativas são definidas.

If you're complaining about rangers like that, imagine when you face bladesworn, because even a warrior can get up and finish the person coming back alive after finishing, necro sucks so much life and does so much damage in the downstate that it kills rangers in the downstate, even though the clones hit strong also in the downstate.... I think your complaint is without reason....

[Sweetbread.3678]

12 minutes ago, Rap Tiger.1257 said:

If you're complaining about rangers like that, imagine when you face bladesworn, because even a warrior can get up and finish the person coming back alive after finishing, necro sucks so much life and does so much damage in the downstate that it kills rangers in the downstate, even though the clones hit strong also in the downstate.... I think your complaint is without reason....

Warrior doesn't get an extra CC. Necro doesn't get an extra free CC. They both only have 4 abilities in downstate. Ranger inexplicably has 5 abilities. This isn't a hard concept for anyone who isn't being willfully stupid.

Lol. Honestly my bad. I don't know why I even bother with Ranger mains on this forum; yall are just a special, unique breed of straight up delusional. You inexplicably get a free 5th downstate ability, a CC no less, and just handwave it away; like I know you play the class because you're so stupid and lacking in integrity that you couldn't pull anything else off, but I at least thought you would be able to acknowledge that 5 is a greater number than 4. I have literally no doubt in my mind that they could  give the class a 20000 range, unblockable, instant-killing, downstate finishing, nuclear bomb ult on a 15 second cooldown and we'd have multiple Ranger mains in here, without a shred of irony, trying to defend it by comparing it to Warrior banner.