Natural Healing and Relic of Nourys

[howdy.7604]

Hello gents, how many of you use Natural Healing? 

Few, I assume. You consume your own boons, along with your conditions. Up to seven. What you gain is Attacker's Insight (so the Wiki says) per consumed boon, as if you stripped one off of someone, despite that someone being you. And health, of course. 

Enter Nourys, which will be based on boonstrips. For unintelligible reasons, said boonstrips get nerfed into uselessness basically every patch. Now, I haven't checked the upcoming patch, and I don't even know if it's live yet, but does Nourys specify that you have to strip off of enemies? If it does, does Natural Healing count as that? 

If so, and bear with me a second, Natural Healing could be used to ramp up Hunger and trigger Nourys.

Picture you're a classic hammer spellbreaker in wvw. You strip boons more than most, but that's not saying much. Not even WoD has a place anymore. But here you go: if you can't eat enough enemy boons, you eat your own. And become very hungry very, very very fast. In a zerg? Even better. Everybody has every boon in a zerg and the application is continuous. Even if you eat seven boons, you'll get them back immediately. Free hunger, attacker's insight and health, then you consume the hunger and become beastly. Depending on relic ICD and duration, Natural Healing may very well make us a walking nuke. 

 

I know it sounds ridiculous to use meditation skills, but even if this weren't the case, I hope Anet considers this option.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Interesting concept. I do think it only accounts for boon removal on enemies? Sounded like that the way it was worded.

Despite that, even if SpB is nerfed to the ground, you can most probably rip enough boons on your own to gain hunger. 

I also doubt it has anything to do with the Relic. As in, number of boons stripped. It has more to do with the removal itself. So it will probably have an ICD per boon removal instance, like 3 seconds or 2. At which point you are better off with Defiant Stance as a heal skill to survive long enough to gather Nourys' hunger. 

The logic you present is definitely interesting and may potentially work and I'm just unaware. But I don't see it being a case since the relic will massively benefit mass-strip skills from specific classes and sound too weak for those with limited boon removal tools. Which I don't think is Anet's goal.

But let's see how it goes. I don't even have the expac, nor do I see myself getting it unless core weps are decent, but the theorycrafting is kinda fun.

[howdy.7604]

5 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Interesting concept. I do think it only accounts for boon removal on enemies? Sounded like that the way it was worded.

Despite that, even if SpB is nerfed to the ground, you can most probably rip enough boons on your own to gain hunger. 

I also doubt it has anything to do with the Relic. As in, number of boons stripped. It has more to do with the removal itself. So it will probably have an ICD per boon removal instance, like 3 seconds or 2. At which point you are better off with Defiant Stance as a heal skill to survive long enough to gather Nourys' hunger. 

The logic you present is definitely interesting and may potentially work and I'm just unaware. But I don't see it being a case since the relic will massively benefit mass-strip skills from specific classes and sound too weak for those with limited boon removal tools. Which I don't think is Anet's goal.

But let's see how it goes. I don't even have the expac, nor do I see myself getting it unless core weps are decent, but the theorycrafting is kinda fun.

Fair points, all. What tipped me off to a possible interaction is the fact you gain Attacker's Insight, which is weird. I hope the ICD isn't per single boon, but per boon removal in the sense that if you pop a skill that removes 3, you gain 3 stacks instead of just 1, then the ICD goes off. Otherwise mass boonstrips would be punished in favour of continuous and steady application of single strips. Might be the latter, since consistent "bomb" removal such as old WoD got essentiality axed. The relic would be very slow to escalate, in this case. 

One can hope, still. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

From my reading, Nourys gains stacks on a CD, but we'll find out in about 5 hours or so.

[howdy.7604]

10 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

From my reading, Nourys gains stacks on a CD, but we'll find out in about 5 hours or so.

I just hope those stacks scale with how many boons you remove in one go, instead of 1 per any skill that removes any number of boons and then the cd. I'm very curious, though I see that my hope is very unlikely. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

4 minutes ago, howdy.7604 said:

I just hope those stacks scale with how many boons you remove in one go, instead of 1 per any skill that removes any number of boons and then the cd. I'm very curious, though I see that my hope is very unlikely. 

It's probably a 1s CD to stop people from instant proccing it. Also, that gives people a way to pace it out and proc it when desired rather than, oops I used Break Enchantments with Enchantment Collapse to close to the enemy Firebrand, welp time to be Chuck Nourys.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Natural Healing is one of the healing skills of all time. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

5 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Natural Healing is one of the [redacted?] healing skills of all time. 

Worst?

Best?

Dumbest?

Useless?

Underrated?

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Just now, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Worst?

Best?

Dumbest?

Useless?

Underrated?

It's existence if often forgotten. 

[howdy.7604]

2 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

It's probably a 1s CD to stop people from instant proccing it. Also, that gives people a way to pace it out and proc it when desired rather than, oops I used Break Enchantments with Enchantment Collapse to close to the enemy Firebrand, welp time to be Chuck Nourys.

I'm gonna dream a bit more: I hope that either we get control over when to consume Hunger stacks, or that dedicated builds get ways to trigger it as often as possible no matter what. 

Besides, if "by chance" I use break enchantment (man, I would, but it just strips 1, bit hard to slot it) and plink off a firebrand, and this makes me Chuck Nourys, I ask you this: would I ever not want to murder everything anyways? Big demon dude, I take less damage and heal for part of what I deal. Since I'm in the fray stripping stuff, is there really a wrong time for me to become a hulking beast? If I "erroneously" strip a firebrand, you bet I'm gonna make a very serious attempt on butchering that firebrand and anything close, which is going to be much better if I'm Chuck Nourys. 

We are just oogas, brother. We must booga

Edited November 7, 2023 by howdy.7604
Addedum

[howdy.7604]

1 hour ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

It's existence if often forgotten. 

Hehe, warrior is so full of awkward, dated and forgotten stuff that, given new conditions, I always check if some of these things suddenly come out of the left field as new, viable and unorthodox variants. 

Love this class. If Natural Healing suddenly becomes the trigger of a possessed ooga booga build, I am going to pioneer such a thing and slap meta folks with it

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

23 minutes ago, howdy.7604 said:

I'm gonna dream a bit more: I hope that either we get control over when to consume Hunger stacks, or that dedicated builds get ways to trigger it as often as possible no matter what. 

Besides, if "by chance" I use break enchantment (man, I would, but it just strips 1, bit hard to slot it) and plink off a firebrand, and this makes me Chuck Nourys, I ask you this: would I ever not want to murder everything anyways? Big demon dude, I take less damage and heal for part of what I deal. Since I'm in the fray stripping stuff, is there really a wrong time for me to become a hulking beast? If I "erroneously" strip a firebrand, you bet I'm gonna make a very serious attempt on butchering that firebrand and anything close, which is going to be much better if I'm Chuck Nourys. 

We are just oogas, brother. We must booga

That oops moment is when trying to coordinate a spike though. In general yeah, I'm going to wreck face when given the opportunity.

Teapot got into this on his stream though. A lot of these relics are nice, but they would work better if we could use them off of a special action key rather than upon XYZ skill used or after ABC stacks of bleh icon on the already polluted icon bar.

There needs to be a dedicated bar somewhere on the UI that houses the Special Actions, other than that one spot that pulls double duty. We can put the reclic activation hotkey there so that it becomes just anohter skill to activate as needed.

[howdy.7604]

16 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

That oops moment is when trying to coordinate a spike though. In general yeah, I'm going to wreck face when given the opportunity.

Teapot got into this on his stream though. A lot of these relics are nice, but they would work better if we could use them off of a special action key rather than upon XYZ skill used or after ABC stacks of bleh icon on the already polluted icon bar.

There needs to be a dedicated bar somewhere on the UI that houses the Special Actions, other than that one spot that pulls double duty. We can put the reclic activation hotkey there so that it becomes just anohter skill to activate as needed.

Fair. Guess it will require more discipline (no pun intended) to coordinate strips and trigger Nourys on time. Besides, if you're close enough to use the boonstrips we have, you're likely already in melee, and therefore out of position for what concerns a coordinated spike, or otherwise already engaged and triggering defensive cooldowns instead of applying the counter pressure strips entail. 

I'm not home yet. Won't be on pc for another 5 hours I think. I rarely watch steamers. This night, no pun intended, I'm gonna have a field day getting this new stuff and testing it out. I'm super curious 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

9 minutes ago, howdy.7604 said:

Fair. Guess it will require more discipline (no pun intended) to coordinate strips and trigger Nourys on time. Besides, if you're close enough to use the boonstrips we have, you're likely already in melee, and therefore out of position for what concerns a coordinated spike, or otherwise already engaged and triggering defensive cooldowns instead of applying the counter pressure strips entail. 

Eh, it could be a melee push with the com calling for strips on voice chat with the understanding that there will be Nourys procs after a certain interval. You'd want your melees already there then.

9 minutes ago, howdy.7604 said:

I'm not home yet. Won't be on pc for another 5 hours I think. I rarely watch steamers. This night, no pun intended, I'm gonna have a field day getting this new stuff and testing it out. I'm super curious 

I won't be home for a while yet, much less in game.

[howdy.7604]

1 minute ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

it could be a melee push with the com calling for strips on voice chat with the understanding that there will be Nourys procs after a certain interval. You'd want your melees already there then.

13 minutes ago, howdy.7604 said:

If Natural Healing were to work for the purposes of Hunger, it would be a pretty surefire way of triggering Nourys when you need it

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 minute ago, howdy.7604 said:

If Natural Healing were to work for the purposes of Hunger, it would be a pretty surefire way of triggering Nourys when you need it

Maybe. You'd still rip all those useful boons though.

[howdy.7604]

3 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Maybe. You'd still rip all those useful boons though.

Zerg wise you'd get most of it back, I think. Besides, it seems like a fair price for immediate max attacker's insight, whatever boons you get on heal, a lot of health, cleanse, and Nourys

[DanAlcedo.3281]

1 hour ago, howdy.7604 said:

Hehe, warrior is so full of awkward, dated and forgotten stuff that, given new conditions, I always check if some of these things suddenly come out of the left field as new, viable and unorthodox variants. 

Love this class. If Natural Healing suddenly becomes the trigger of a possessed ooga booga build, I am going to pioneer such a thing and slap meta folks with it

We have mending. 

Sizable heal on a short CD that cleans conditions and a dps buff when you run strength. 

 

There is simply no reason to slot Natural Healing. 

[howdy.7604]

Just now, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

We have mending. 

Sizable heal on a short CD that cleans conditions and a dps buff when you run strength. 

 

There is simply no reason to slot Natural Healing. 

Yeah, I hope it gets some competition 

[Lucentfir.7430]

Mending is still better by far,  the Noryus relic has a short ICD on boon removal stacking. You only get one stack of the relic from Natural healing for a the stack of boons removed while getting however many procs of attacker's insight per boon. 

Edited November 7, 2023 by Lucentfir.7430

[Grand Marshal.4098]

51 minutes ago, Lucentfir.7430 said:

Mending is still better by far,  the Noryus relic has a short ICD on boon removal stacking. You only get one stack of the relic from Natural healing for a the stack of boons removed while getting however many procs of attacker's insight per boon. 

Yeah that makes more sense

[Lighter.5631]

i feel like all these new relic reads good into warrior pvp

but really..not so much

noury ICD too short, does not account for how many boon you remove, spellbreaker does not remove boon consistently reliably in pvp, it hardly lands any hit, it's just when it lands, it hurts.

 

demon queen, very meh, there's already akeem, hambow is just a spec that's completely outdated, without celestial it has no spot

 

midnight king can be interesting as it gives fury, which is what warrior needs, but i dont know what build use it...it's more for hit and run builds, but warrior has no hit and run build because warrior can't run, other bruiser big hit builds there's sigil of intel for that

karakosa, warrior literally does not stick enough to ally with that 300 radius healing, also takes too long to even start blasting for that 300 radius

febe is too specific

nayos is too gimick

 

 

 

Edited November 8, 2023 by Lighter.5631

[howdy.7604]

12 hours ago, Lucentfir.7430 said:

Mending is still better by far,  the Noryus relic has a short ICD on boon removal stacking. You only get one stack of the relic from Natural healing for a the stack of boons removed while getting however many procs of attacker's insight per boon. 

Oi mate, thanks for testing. Haven't got the relic yet, and from the other posts I see it might be a bit borked in implementation. 

However, this has the very interesting side connotation. Natural Healing counts as a boonstrip, and this means the following 

1-The main logical leap that lead me to believe it was so (the fact that you gain Attacker's Insight) is substantially compounded by the fact that Natural Healing interacts with Nourys.  G R A T I F I C A T I O N

2-There is now room for an interesting hypothesis: does Natural Healing trigger Loss Aversion and Enchantment Collapse? Still pretty useless, but there would be room for popping Endure Pain, hopping in the fray and popping Natural Healing to allow more unblockable cascade boonstrip, adrenaline because you boonstrip, damage because you boonstrip, cleanse, and health because despite being pretty useless it's still a heal skill. Since most strips are based on Dispelling Force, and the required bonk doesn't work if the enemy has stab, stacking the Natural Healing trigger with Break Enchantment before hammer time could work as a primer to ensure the cc and further stripping goes off. Additional Attacker's Insight is also welcome, I guess 

Addendum and correction: wiki says point 2 is correct. Listed under Related Traits. Also of notice that Natural Healing, as per wiki, has some 2000 health gain more than mending. I need to see this in game, but if it is so, and it eats 7 conditions against Mending's 5, and it additionally heals for each boon it consumes, then it might be worth it. Even against peak performance, that's attacker's insight, loss aversion and enchantment collapse going off. And a bit of Nourys fuel, even if less than hoped

Edited November 8, 2023 by howdy.7604
Addendum