Why did Orr lose to the Charr

[Lukeers.2053]

Due to the guild wars, Orr had a lot of casualties anyway. Plus the charr had "god-magic" from their own ie the titans.

Either way the charr theoretically did not lose, as both lost. The vizier killed both Orrians and the charr with the cataclysm

[Slowpokeking.8720]

12 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

 

"summon Balthazar's hounds" - you know these aren't the real Temur and Tegan, right? They're just the human elite skill, which isn't god magic - if any human was capable of god magic, Livia wouldn't have created such emphasis on what god magic was in Abaddon's Reliquary.

"summon Grenth's minions" - you mean those super generic Shades that any charr, asura, sylvari, and norn necromancer can summon?

"change nature form" - not sure what "change nature form" you're talking about since the Priestess of Melandru doesn't change forms, but becoming a spectral oakheart is something all the druids did and they were neither exclusively human nor exclusively followers of Melandru. Their magic wasn't god magic, it was nature magic.

They are part of his power, from his bless.

Melandru's priest could also summon Flora.

Grenth's priests have Grenth's Blessing

Yes humans, Risen could NOT use it. Do you get it?

What did Livia say?

Exemplar Kerida: I can try, but it's god magic. Why don't you see if you can find a way across?

Also those priests were described as:

A corrupted avatar of Balthazar, the god of war. Zhaitan's power was immense to have corrupted an aspect of the gods.

 

 

Edited December 2, 2023 by Slowpokeking.8720

[Slowpokeking.8720]

6 hours ago, Eekasqueak.7850 said:

Mesmers can turn people into moas, don't see how that means it's god magic. 

I don't understand why ppl are still denying this.

The Risen priest in Arah even clear made the bless and mark is from Grenth.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grenth's_Protection

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grenth's_Blessing_(Arah)

 

[Slowpokeking.8720]

5 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

He has very weird ideas on what "God-magic" is. Also apparently views things through a power-scaling lens with "Priests means Orr is more powerful then Charr so they should've won!" even though the Charr broke the army so fast it's unlikely any temple or even the king got warning the army was gone lol. 

A corrupted avatar of Balthazar, the god of war. Zhaitan's power was immense to have corrupted an aspect of the gods.

Same with other priests, they indeed carry the gods' power.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

4 hours ago, Lukeers.2053 said:

Due to the guild wars, Orr had a lot of casualties anyway. Plus the charr had "god-magic" from their own ie the titans.

Either way the charr theoretically did not lose, as both lost. The vizier killed both Orrians and the charr with the cataclysm

And the Orrian got strong army, the charr got to split their forces to 3 and march long distance.

Orrians got powerful magic as well.

[Kalavier.1097]

4 minutes ago, Slowpokeking.8720 said:

And the Orrian got strong army, the charr got to split their forces to 3 and march long distance.

Orrians got powerful magic as well.

Charr army wasn't small. Also Orrian army is unclear how many, or how powerful their spellcasters were.

Priests are not army spellcasters. The priests in the temple were at the temple when they died.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

Just now, Kalavier.1097 said:

Charr army wasn't small. Also Orrian army is unclear how many, or how powerful their spellcasters were.

Priests are not army spellcasters. The priests in the temple were at the temple when they died.

So Orrian army are small?

Quote

The Orrian army was the equal of any in Tyria, and the invaders had already fought a long battle against the Ascalons.

They are powerful fighters as they were shown, along with the Source of Orr's magic to buff them. There is no reason they lost in 1 day.

So are you saying that Orrian leaders are utter idiots, keep all of their powerful weapons: magic at bay when their nation is in trouble?

 

[Slowpokeking.8720]

To be fair, priests of Lyssa and Dwayna didn't even have to fight directly, just use their illusion and healing would help the army a lot.

[Kalavier.1097]

17 minutes ago, Slowpokeking.8720 said:

So Orrian army are small?

They are powerful fighters as they were shown, along with the Source of Orr's magic to buff them. There is no reason they lost in 1 day.

So are you saying that Orrian leaders are utter idiots, keep all of their powerful weapons: magic at bay when their nation is in trouble?

 

We don't know the exact size of the Orrian army, or how it compared size wise to the Charr. It's implied at the very least, the Charr army was equal.

Also, the source of orr isn't a buff applied to spellcasters. That isn't a thing that happens. And they did lose in one day, that is literally the lore, and saying anything otherwise is silly. You ask "Why did they lose" then promptly and constantly ignore every single reason that could be given. You are not interested at all in hearing anything else.

You know there is such a thing as "Don't place your eggs in one basket" They could've been preparing the spellcasters and the army marched out to buy time. It got destroyed so quickly (12 hours) they didn't have time to send warning back that things went south. You are acting like they had everything on hand, immediately ready to go, at the front lines. 

[Slowpokeking.8720]

9 minutes ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

We don't know the exact size of the Orrian army, or how it compared size wise to the Charr. It's implied at the very least, the Charr army was equal.

Also, the source of orr isn't a buff applied to spellcasters. That isn't a thing that happens. And they did lose in one day, that is literally the lore, and saying anything otherwise is silly. You ask "Why did they lose" then promptly and constantly ignore every single reason that could be given. You are not interested at all in hearing anything else.

You know there is such a thing as "Don't place your eggs in one basket" They could've been preparing the spellcasters and the army marched out to buy time. It got destroyed so quickly (12 hours) they didn't have time to send warning back that things went south. You are acting like they had everything on hand, immediately ready to go, at the front lines. 

Didn't you see?

Quote

The Orrian army was the equal of any in Tyria, and the invaders had already fought a long battle against the Ascalons.

Ascalon suffered from the Searing so they lost quickly.  Also the charr hadn't split their forces yet.

Quote

Anyone alive today will remember the day the lands of Ascalon were blasted and torn with magic fire. Whole cities and guilds were destroyed in the Searing, and the might of Ascalon was shattered. Now the Great Northern Wall lies broken, and the Charr have overrun much of the kingdom, defiling it with their unholy shrines, killing those who stand in their way.

Yet it still had power to fight and the capital didn't fall for long. Without the Searing, even if the charr could break through the war, they would not be able to occupy much of Ascalon this easily. We know that the charr already fought a long battle, which means they didn't just go through Orr immediately, not until they were able to occupy most of Ascalon so they could march through a safe route without worrying about being cut from supply line.

So the charr didn't just split their forces, but also fought a long battle before they went to Orr.

How? Even the gods could use the magic to empower stuff. Even Zhaitan had to use it to spread it corruption. It's very powerful for sure.

Yeah the "they lost in 1 day" is in the lore but makes no sense when we combine other facts together. Why would they not send their casters, when they knew clear that the Charr's biggest weapon was magic? If they didn't put it in one basket, then why did they send most of their army there?

[Kalavier.1097]

13 minutes ago, Slowpokeking.8720 said:

Yeah the "they lost in 1 day" is in the lore but makes no sense when we combine other facts together. Why would they not send their casters, when they knew clear that the Charr's biggest weapon was magic? If they didn't put it in one basket, then why did they send most of their army there?

It makes no sense because you refuse to accept or ponder any reason why.

They didn't know a thing about the Charr fighting style or magical abilities. They had never fought, and likely never saw a Charr before.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

34 minutes ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

It makes no sense because you refuse to accept or ponder any reason why.

They didn't know a thing about the Charr fighting style or magical abilities. They had never fought, and likely never saw a Charr before.

It's not real life event, dude, it's just lore they established, but obviously it makes little sense.

Again, they realized the Charr's threat, and the Charr got to go through Ascalon to get to Orr. Obviously they knew the Searing.

Keeper of the Shrine: The charr are at the doorstep of Orr. They plan to sear our nation as they did Ascalon.

Kryta being the example, they never fought the charr before as well, and they quickly adapted the tactic. I don't think the Mursaat had fought the charr before.

THIS is the problem: The charr couldn't wipe Ascalon for decades even after the Searing gave them huge advantage. And the Titans came out for a while.

They got wiped by Saul's men and 3 Mursaat.

Why would Orr, who had much better preparation than Kryta and Ascalon, didn't suffer the Searing, had such powerful magic casters and the Source lose in 1 day?

And even their most powerful weapon: The Searing was not stronger than Foefire, which was caused by Orr artifacts.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Slowpokeking.8720

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

4 hours ago, Slowpokeking.8720 said:

I don't understand why ppl are still denying this.

The Risen priest in Arah even clear made the bless and mark is from Grenth.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grenth's_Protection

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grenth's_Blessing_(Arah)

 

Spell named after dude != spell powered by dude

If every Orrian priest or human was using god magic, then these exchanges wouldn't happen in Seaosn 3:

Exemplar Kerida: It's been warded. Recently. Fire magic, not mursaat magic. God magic.

Exemplar Kerida: If the last aspect is here, then Balthazar came this way.

<Character name>: Can you shut it down?

Exemplar Kerida: I can try, but it's god magic. Why don't you see if you can find a way across?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Last_Chance

God magic is super special, and humans do not have ease of access of it. For example, divine fire wards away dragon minions:

Marjory Delaqua: Strange... As soon as you completed the ritual with the Divine Fire, the Mordrem got spooked and ran off. Almost like—

<Character name>: Like it was warding them off?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Mystery_Cave#Looking_for_the_final_memory_location

The spells you cite as "god magic" are merely god-themed magic. In the end, it's still Tyrian magic. Just like how Dwayna's Sorrow isn't god magic, merely god-themed magic - otherwise, why would a Modniir use it? Why would a charr use Dwayna's Kiss?

Edited December 2, 2023 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[Slowpokeking.8720]

1 hour ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Spell named after dude != spell powered by dude

If every Orrian priest or human was using god magic, then these exchanges wouldn't happen in Seaosn 3:

Exemplar Kerida: It's been warded. Recently. Fire magic, not mursaat magic. God magic.

Exemplar Kerida: If the last aspect is here, then Balthazar came this way.

<Character name>: Can you shut it down?

Exemplar Kerida: I can try, but it's god magic. Why don't you see if you can find a way across?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Last_Chance

God magic is super special, and humans do not have ease of access of it. For example, divine fire wards away dragon minions:

Marjory Delaqua: Strange... As soon as you completed the ritual with the Divine Fire, the Mordrem got spooked and ran off. Almost like—

<Character name>: Like it was warding them off?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Mystery_Cave#Looking_for_the_final_memory_location

The spells you cite as "god magic" are merely god-themed magic. In the end, it's still Tyrian magic. Just like how Dwayna's Sorrow isn't god magic, merely god-themed magic - otherwise, why would a Modniir use it? Why would a charr use Dwayna's Kiss?

It's kitten clear. It was from Grenth's bless.

Even if you ask about those Risen Priests, the answer is

A corrupted avatar of Balthazar, the god of war. Zhaitan's power was immense to have corrupted an aspect of the gods.

A corrupted avatar of Melandru, the god of nature. How powerful are these Elder Dragons?

A corrupted avatar of the death-god, Grenth. Someone must find our gods and tell them of this atrocity!

They are avatars, they are aspect of the gods.

 

What does Livia's words have to do with it? She never said anything about those priests don't have god magic. She is not a priest, and obviously she knew a bit about god magic, just not 100% sure she could solve it.

 

We are not talking about ease, actually the Divine Fire chapter had made it clear

 

Your race's benefactors—the gods—enchanted their favorite followers with their magic.

The humans' benefactors enchanted their favorite humans with their magic, perhaps even their own essence.

 

This actually proved that those priests hold god magic, since they are guarding the gods' temple when they set foot on Tyria, and they directly communicate with their gods or through avatar.

Edited December 3, 2023 by Slowpokeking.8720

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

7 minutes ago, Slowpokeking.8720 said:

It's kitten clear. It was from Grenth's bless.

Even if you ask about those Risen Priests, the answer is

A corrupted avatar of Balthazar, the god of war. Zhaitan's power was immense to have corrupted an aspect of the gods.

A corrupted avatar of Melandru, the god of nature. How powerful are these Elder Dragons?

A corrupted avatar of the death-god, Grenth. Someone must find our gods and tell them of this atrocity!

They are avatars, they are aspect of the gods.

They are not avatars, their names are very clearly High Priest.

Randall even calls them High Priests in the audio dialogue:

 

Only does he call them avatars - falsely - in text dialogue. This is likely an oversight due to changed plans mid-development.

Furthermore, you first talk about the priests in the temples, now you're talking about the High Priests in Arah. Make up your mind.

8 minutes ago, Slowpokeking.8720 said:

What does Livia's words have to do with it? She never said anything about those priests don't have god magic. She is not a priest, and obviously she knew a bit about god magic, just not 100% sure she could solve it.

Livia's words make it clear that god magic is actually distinct and special magic, not something mundane like the temple priests and the High Priests use.

8 minutes ago, Slowpokeking.8720 said:

Your race's benefactors—the gods—enchanted their favorite followers with their magic.

The humans' benefactors enchanted their favorite humans with their magic, perhaps even their own essence.

 

This actually proved that those priests hold god magic, since they are guarding the gods' temple when they set foot on Tyria, and they directly communicate with their gods or through avatar.

How about you quote the full line of dialogue:

Your race's benefactors—the gods—enchanted their favorite followers with their magic. It allowed these humans to access hidden places. You will not be Ascended, however, so touching it could kill you.

Want to know what this is referencing? It's in the bold.

It's referencing this from GW1: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Divine_Fire

It's talking about the rite of Ascension. That's the magic left over that enchant their favorite followers with their magic.

Orrian priests were not Ascended.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

36 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

They are not avatars, their names are very clearly High Priest.

Randall even calls them High Priests in the audio dialogue:

 

Only does he call them avatars - falsely - in text dialogue. This is likely an oversight due to changed plans mid-development.

Furthermore, you first talk about the priests in the temples, now you're talking about the High Priests in Arah. Make up your mind.

Livia's words make it clear that god magic is actually distinct and special magic, not something mundane like the temple priests and the High Priests use.

How about you quote the full line of dialogue:

Your race's benefactors—the gods—enchanted their favorite followers with their magic. It allowed these humans to access hidden places. You will not be Ascended, however, so touching it could kill you.

Want to know what this is referencing? It's in the bold.

It's referencing this from GW1: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Divine_Fire

It's talking about the rite of Ascension. That's the magic left over that enchant their favorite followers with their magic.

Orrian priests were not Ascended.

Well they are, they hold a big part of the gods' magic. Now. you. are. directly. denying. what. was. given.

They were said to be avatars, they also use unique god power with direct name of the god's blessing. Stop denying it.

What are you talking about? These priests are the god's most faithful followers, guarding the places where they set foot upon. Even after their demise, Grenth wanted his keeper to return.  Obviously they are the ones most likely to be favored by the gods and share their power for their faithful service? Mundane? You must be wrong.

No, nowhere said only the divine fire/Ascension was given to their favorite followers, it's just part of the power.

Ascension—communion with the six gods. We knew that the high priests can communicate with the gods directly,  it's obvious that they were enchanted by the gods.  Their power also showed it.

Edited December 3, 2023 by Slowpokeking.8720

[Kalavier.1097]

6 hours ago, Slowpokeking.8720 said:

It's not real life event, dude, it's just lore they established, but obviously it makes little sense.

Again, they realized the Charr's threat, and the Charr got to go through Ascalon to get to Orr. Obviously they knew the Searing.

Keeper of the Shrine: The charr are at the doorstep of Orr. They plan to sear our nation as they did Ascalon.

Kryta being the example, they never fought the charr before as well, and they quickly adapted the tactic. I don't think the Mursaat had fought the charr before.

THIS is the problem: The charr couldn't wipe Ascalon for decades even after the Searing gave them huge advantage. And the Titans came out for a while.

They got wiped by Saul's men and 3 Mursaat.

Why would Orr, who had much better preparation than Kryta and Ascalon, didn't suffer the Searing, had such powerful magic casters and the Source lose in 1 day?

And even their most powerful weapon: The Searing was not stronger than Foefire, which was caused by Orr artifacts.

The Foefire was caused by an artifact that was not in Orr, and there is no indication that it can be cast by anything other then those two swords. This also is going off the whole problem of "Did they have time to prepare and get the artifacts? Not after the army was beat."

We can use RL battles to gain some insight into why things may have gone terribly. Overconfidence of the Orrian commanders perhaps, leading to their army being unprepared for actual battle (Much like how IRL battles were lost because the troops were hyped up with "We've already won, we just gotta walk over there and claim it!" )  When the army was destroyed and routed, it didn't have time to warn the rest of the nation before the Charr pushed through.

Ascalon survived because it was A: already well used to fighting the Charr and trained people specifically in that regard and B: had the great northern wall and their other fortifications. Even after the searing, the Charr had to push to get a foothold beyond the wall, until chunks of Ascalon's population left (To Kryta and to what was Ebonhawke).

Ascalon was used to fighting Charr. Orr was not. Kryta got lucky and managed to kill the leadership and the Charr forces retreated from there. The Mursaat also have the whole "Hidden one" thing. Kinda makes things lopsided in battle if you can hide yourself from their vision since the Charr aren't ascended.

[CETheLucid.3964]

On 11/18/2023 at 1:07 PM, Slowpokeking.8720 said:

Why did Orr lose to the Charr

The charr were being supported by Abaddon via the titans, and Abaddon had a man on the inside in Orr who he then used to magically nuke the place. Orr didn't win the war nor did it lose it as it was cut short before victory or defeat could be decided.

It could be said a charr victory was imminent (both sides say theirs was doing great) and that's why the Vizier went Sampson, but I have a feeling Khilbron would have ended up nuking the place either way. Evil god gets what evil god wants. Humans, charr. Everyone dies and sinks to the bottom of the ocean. The end. Unless a couple centuries later a (formerly) giant magical super dragon of undeath raises both the land and it's dead from their watery graves.

Also I kind of feel we've had this topic before already. Very recently. Did you not get a good answer the first go? Maybe I'm misremembering or thinking of another person who had the exact same question. 🤔

[Lukeers.2053]

Guys when the cataclysm happened, the human guild wars were on going. A lot of soldiers were lost due to it and the charr had the upper hand.

Furthermore humans weren't used to the charr fighting tactics. The charr had an element of surprise.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Guild_Wars

And might I add, the charr were all soldiers except for the females. There are no "civilians", all charr are born to fight.

Humans had townsfolk, civilians and priests. One may argue that humans had good artifacts and mages, plus they stayed on top of a leyline hub* + elderdragon, but the charr had titan magic, and they fought very dirty.

With one ritual spell, the charr brought destruction to ascalon.

I'm sure although it's not confirmed that the charr were bringing searing couldrons to both kryta and Orr.

Edited December 3, 2023 by Lukeers.2053
Update

[Kalavier.1097]

10 hours ago, CETheLucid.3964 said:

The charr were being supported by Abaddon via the titans, and Abaddon had a man on the inside in Orr who he then used to magically nuke the place. Orr didn't win the war nor did it lose it as it was cut short before victory or defeat could be decided.

Also I kind of feel we've had this topic before already. Very recently. Did you not get a good answer the first go? Maybe I'm misremembering or thinking of another person who had the exact same question. 🤔

You know, on the "Artifacts side" The soldiers, and IIRC even priests of Grenth comment on Vizier preparing the spell that should wipe out the Charr. That could've lead some officers in the army to act as if they already won, which could be disaster for the formation. Squads thinking the war is already over, they fall the squads around them start splintering, then total army rout and destruction.

 

As for second part, the OP disappeared for a while then returned and commented on this.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

16 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

The Foefire was caused by an artifact that was not in Orr, and there is no indication that it can be cast by anything other then those two swords. This also is going off the whole problem of "Did they have time to prepare and get the artifacts? Not after the army was beat."

We can use RL battles to gain some insight into why things may have gone terribly. Overconfidence of the Orrian commanders perhaps, leading to their army being unprepared for actual battle (Much like how IRL battles were lost because the troops were hyped up with "We've already won, we just gotta walk over there and claim it!" )  When the army was destroyed and routed, it didn't have time to warn the rest of the nation before the Charr pushed through.

Ascalon survived because it was A: already well used to fighting the Charr and trained people specifically in that regard and B: had the great northern wall and their other fortifications. Even after the searing, the Charr had to push to get a foothold beyond the wall, until chunks of Ascalon's population left (To Kryta and to what was Ebonhawke).

Ascalon was used to fighting Charr. Orr was not. Kryta got lucky and managed to kill the leadership and the Charr forces retreated from there. The Mursaat also have the whole "Hidden one" thing. Kinda makes things lopsided in battle if you can hide yourself from their vision since the Charr aren't ascended.

Foefire was caused by artifact from Orr. Again, the charr don't teleport to Orr, they had to march long way through Orr, and they had to occupy Ascalon first to make the route clear so their supply line can't be cut.

I don't see them being overconfident, they immediately went back to defend and gather:

At first, Orr was saved from much of the fighting. The guilds with allegiances to Ascalon and Kryta withdrew, heading back to defend their homes. Orr regrouped, granted a moment to prepare simply because they were farther south. The Charr had to make their way through Ascalon before they could reach the gates of Arah. But eventually Ascalon fell, and the Charr arrived in Orr.

And Kryta was in a worse situation, far worse if we compare..

Much of Ascalon was destroyed by the Searing, without the Searing, Charr would not gain such upper hand easily. Orr got their advantage:

Least loss in Guild Wars

Powerful magic source

Powerful casters

Time to gather and make plan

The charr got to split their army.

Ascalon hold for decades, Kryta was saved and Orr was destroyed in 1 day, it made ZERO sense.

 

[Slowpokeking.8720]

14 hours ago, CETheLucid.3964 said:

The charr were being supported by Abaddon via the titans, and Abaddon had a man on the inside in Orr who he then used to magically nuke the place. Orr didn't win the war nor did it lose it as it was cut short before victory or defeat could be decided.

It could be said a charr victory was imminent (both sides say theirs was doing great) and that's why the Vizier went Sampson, but I have a feeling Khilbron would have ended up nuking the place either way. Evil god gets what evil god wants. Humans, charr. Everyone dies and sinks to the bottom of the ocean. The end. Unless a couple centuries later a (formerly) giant magical super dragon of undeath raises both the land and it's dead from their watery graves.

Also I kind of feel we've had this topic before already. Very recently. Did you not get a good answer the first go? Maybe I'm misremembering or thinking of another person who had the exact same question. 🤔

And Orrians have powerful magic source, along with the 5 gods' magic power behind them. I don't see how the charr wins a war of magic.

Orrians: 5 gods' magic, many powerful spellcasters, Artesian Waters

Charr: titan magic

They didn't use the Searing, again.

We also saw that Mursaat being to kick their kitten easily. Are you saying that god magic<mursaat magic?

Edited December 3, 2023 by Slowpokeking.8720

[Slowpokeking.8720]

13 hours ago, Lukeers.2053 said:

Guys when the cataclysm happened, the human guild wars were on going. A lot of soldiers were lost due to it and the charr had the upper hand.

Furthermore humans weren't used to the charr fighting tactics. The charr had an element of surprise.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Guild_Wars

And might I add, the charr were all soldiers except for the females. There are no "civilians", all charr are born to fight.

Humans had townsfolk, civilians and priests. One may argue that humans had good artifacts and mages, plus they stayed on top of a leyline hub* + elderdragon, but the charr had titan magic, and they fought very dirty.

With one ritual spell, the charr brought destruction to ascalon.

I'm sure although it's not confirmed that the charr were bringing searing couldrons to both kryta and Orr.

No.

Soon after Orr mobilized its armies, Kryta and Ascalon did as well, and what had started as a dispute between localized groups became an all-out war. The Guild Wars raged for nearly fifty years. During that time, none of the three human empires was able to assert dominance over either of the other two. While Ascalon, Orr, and Kryta were busy fighting with each other, they became blind to the threat from the north—the Charr. The northern beasts swept in, taking Ascalon in a spectacular magical battle.

At first, Orr was saved from much of the fighting. The guilds with allegiances to Ascalon and Kryta withdrew, heading back to defend their homes. Orr regrouped, granted a moment to prepare simply because they were farther south. The Charr had to make their way through Ascalon before they could reach the gates of Arah. But eventually Ascalon fell, and the Charr arrived in Orr.

 

It doesn't matter you can fight or not, you need supply lines to support your army, so it's limited based on your supply line. Even if all of your men and women can fight, your backup resource and supply line will limit how much troops you can send.

The Orrians have 5 gods magic and the source of Orr, that's surely stronger than titan's magic. Again they didn't use Searing on Orr when Orrian army was destroyed, evidence was given before.

Edited December 3, 2023 by Slowpokeking.8720

[Slowpokeking.8720]

4 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

You know, on the "Artifacts side" The soldiers, and IIRC even priests of Grenth comment on Vizier preparing the spell that should wipe out the Charr. That could've lead some officers in the army to act as if they already won, which could be disaster for the formation. Squads thinking the war is already over, they fall the squads around them start splintering, then total army rout and destruction.

 

As for second part, the OP disappeared for a while then returned and commented on this.

Trahearne: As hope failed, an Orrian named Vizier Khilbron read the Lost Scrolls and unleashed an ancient curse.

I will read this scroll, fully knowing the consequences. Orr will be gone. Perhaps forgotten. But it will not be remembered as a land conquered by brutes. To me, that is worth the sacrifice. I'm sorry, old friend—and I hope one day, when we meet in the afterlife, you will greet me with forgiveness.

With defeat at the doorstep and the kingdom nearly in ruins, one man turned to a forbidden magic.

The Orrians were already nearly defeated before Cataclysm, and before the charr even use the Searing power.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

18 hours ago, Slowpokeking.8720 said:

Well they are, they hold a big part of the gods' magic. Now. you. are. directly. denying. what. was. given.

They were said to be avatars, they also use unique god power with direct name of the god's blessing. Stop denying it.

Got a source that isn't self-contradictory?

18 hours ago, Slowpokeking.8720 said:

What are you talking about? These priests are the god's most faithful followers, guarding the places where they set foot upon. Even after their demise, Grenth wanted his keeper to return.  Obviously they are the ones most likely to be favored by the gods and share their power for their faithful service? Mundane? You must be wrong.

There were no priests "guarding the places where they set foot upon" or any other place of faith, just the temples in Orr.

Grenth wanted the soul that was stolen back, nothing special - he is the god of the dead, it's his job to ensure souls don't get misused.

In the context of Ogden's dialogue that you took only a tiny portion of, the "most faithful followers" was in clear reference to Ascension and was about gifting Divine Fire.

18 hours ago, Slowpokeking.8720 said:

No, nowhere said only the divine fire/Ascension was given to their favorite followers, it's just part of the power.

Ascension—communion with the six gods. We knew that the high priests can communicate with the gods directly,  it's obvious that they were enchanted by the gods.  Their power also showed it.

You literally quoted the dialogue which stated divine fire / Ascension was given to their favorite followers. It's literally right there, in your own "proof" of it.

And where is your source that the high priests can communicate with the gods directly? The closest we've ever seen to this is specific non-High priests receiving visions from their god in question, like Meerak and Kehanni receiving a vision from Dwayna and Lyssa respectively. But this is one-way communication, not two way. Most communication with the gods post-Exodus happens through Avatar intermediaries - and nothing ever says priests are the only ones (as proven by the fact the PC does this personally), let alone high priests being capable of it.

You've went from having a biased and filtered view to literally just making kitten up.