Let's talk about how bad shortbow is

[Alec B.8905]

OK so I am several fights deep, small group, zerg, 1v1. I have tried cele power mix, full cele, marauder zerk and I am on holosmith. I play wvw exclusively in this game mainly roaming.

This weapon is a nightmare with how unreliable it's ability is to hit anything including yourself. I will do my best to just focus on the weapon and not compare it to existing weapons.

• In the middle of battle I have to slow myself down so I can get the aoe effect of the abilities if I want to cast them on myself.
• I need something to catch people with the abilities
• The arrows feel impossible to hit a moving target including your own group if you are supporting or attacking another player (by the time they activate you are already gone from them)
• it takes too long for the arrow to hit the ground then activate 
• the aoe is so tiny you are able to walk out of most of the damage before the well can activate or the buffs
• SPEAKING of damage, it's got none even on full berserker this is hitting for nothing. it just needs more umf or reward the dps by chaining more arrows
• I would also like to say that for abilities that require chaining these cooldowns are crazy weird to try to plan proper chaining in the heat of battle
• I need these wells to last longer so I can play around the chaining ability and not only that they are just so short to do any of the effects
• I need a range increase to compensate for movement, by the time they can be detonated I can walk forwards and am already touching the arrow well, how am I supposed to hurt a moving enemy target?
• I think the wells need to be instant casts without the tiny delay when they hit the ground

They should just swap this to longbow so we can have adequate range to use this weapon.

I do think this weapon can be fun if we just get some compensating changes to make the weapon have more umf.

engi never wanted a full support weapon.

[Zzik.5873]

6 minutes ago, Alec B.8905 said:

OK so I am several fights deep, small group, zerg, 1v1. I have tried cele power mix, full cele, marauder zerk and I am on holosmith. I play wvw exclusively in this game mainly roaming.

This weapon is a nightmare with how unreliable it's ability is to hit anything including yourself. I will do my best to just focus on the weapon and not compare it to existing weapons.

• In the middle of battle I have to slow myself down so I can get the aoe effect of the abilities if I want to cast them on myself.
• I need something to catch people with the abilities
• The arrows feel impossible to hit a moving target including your own group if you are supporting or attacking another player (by the time they activate you are already gone from them)
• it takes too long for the arrow to hit the ground then activate 
• the aoe is so tiny you are able to walk out of most of the damage before the well can activate or the buffs
• SPEAKING of damage, it's got none even on full berserker this is hitting for nothing. it just needs more umf or reward the dps by chaining more arrows
• I would also like to say that for abilities that require chaining these cooldowns are crazy weird to try to plan proper chaining in the heat of battle
• I need these wells to last longer so I can play around the chaining ability and not only that they are just so short to do any of the effects
• I need a range increase to compensate for movement, by the time they can be detonated I can walk forwards and am already touching the arrow well, how am I supposed to hurt a moving enemy target?
• I think the wells need to be instant casts without the tiny delay when they hit the ground

They should just swap this to longbow so we can have adequate range to use this weapon.

I do think this weapon can be fun if we just get some compensating changes to make the weapon have more umf.

engi never wanted a full support weapon.

Honestly its useless, sure if you want to handicap yourself go for it. But this weapon is not fixable, its flaw in its base design. They cant fix it, even if the number were overpower, its just super unfun to play with. And the what this weapon bring to the table we already have it perma or in tone elswhere.

So yeah, anet could not release it and nothing would change. They need to redesign it from the ground up.

Lets check what it does:
-A small amount of heal (engi aint missing heal at all)

-A tiny amount of barrier (its not like we cant cap it already on mech and scrapper lol)

-Condi cleanse (were the class that have the most amount of condi cleanse in our kit)

-Super speed (scrapper exist)

-Might (really, do I have to explain)

-Some soft cc condi wich are nice I guess

-1 explosion combo...

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Zzik.5873

[Drakensoul.1608]

6 minutes ago, Zzik.5873 said:

its just super unfun to play with

jeah so damm true

but the concept of shooting magic infused arrow from other classes is not that bad only the implementation is bad. 

[Gendalfs.7521]

Just tried it. Its trash. Traaaash. Clumsy, slow. Dmg is nonexistant. That my first impresions. Who t f design this? Mortar kit is already slow. 

[Sindust.7059]

Repackaged mortar kit with nerfed range... What even is the point of this weapon? And there isn't even a point if you want to free up the elite skill slot, because there are no good elite skills for support.

All other classes get something they did not have before, and engi gets something he already had but worse.

[VixenHack.7829]

It's a bad support weapon.

It's a pretty good tagging weapon. But that's about it.

 

[lorddarkflare.9186]

I actually think it is easily fixable without redesigning too much.

1. Detonations should be blast finishers (remove the fire field)
2. Essences should last at least twice longer
3. Auto-Attack gains +25% damage for each essence on the field.
4. Double all chain effects.

[VixenHack.7829]

Honestly this isn't bad, but i would add:

FIX THE LOS PROBLEM. 

You can drop your canisters, walk around the corner, and activate them and everything EXCEPT THE DAMAGE will go off. It will just flash "obstructed"

[jason.1083]

11 minutes ago, VixenHack.7829 said:

Honestly this isn't bad, but i would add:

FIX THE LOS PROBLEM. 

You can drop your canisters, walk around the corner, and activate them and everything EXCEPT THE DAMAGE will go off. It will just flash "obstructed"

That's the game asking you "If you didn't see your enemies get hit, did they really get hit?"

[VixenHack.7829]

its super super stupid. It's a canister. Traps don't need LOS. and yet

 

[Zzik.5873]

4 hours ago, lorddarkflare.9186 said:

I actually think it is easily fixable without redesigning too much.

1. Detonations should be blast finishers (remove the fire field)
2. Essences should last at least twice longer
3. Auto-Attack gains +25% damage for each essence on the field.
4. Double all chain effects.

Maybe but will it be fun? Not in my opinion... Even if it was bug free and not total garbage, it would still be the most unfun weapon of the game... its just a more clunkier mortar kit...

[Bigbizz.9406]

I was very surprised that the arrows didn't pulse the conditions on deployment just like flame turret. I'm also not a fan on how it fights with medkit and elixir gun for uptime. The arrows take a very long time in WvW to land and activate with such a small area that your intended target has to be standing still to get marginal benefits (or marginal condi). Your ally will die to the solo willbender power dive before the first arrow detonates to start a chain to give them 5k barrier.

I think that arrows should pulse conditions on arrival and then activate to detonate boons for allies. Arrows should also be able to detonate mid flight before they land so they deliver the buffs on arrival. Increasing the AOE would be a great QoL too considering the mobile nature of WvW. Also, taking shortbow means you sacrifice blocks from hammer or shield, which makes it almost unjustifiable to take considering it's already not synergizing well with the engineers other tools.

[krill.4902]

Simple idea : they should have made the arrows stick to the target and explode with a timer, the target becomes a walking time bomb

[Fueki.4753]

I had a decent bit of fun with Shortbow, blasting Drakes in Bitterfrost Frontier.

I wouldn't use it for anything other than diddling around with regular enemies.

[Dawdler.8521]

An engineer weapon that's slow and unreliable? 

I'M SHOCKED!

[Zzik.5873]

8 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

An engineer weapon that's slow and unreliable? 

I'M SHOCKED!

Its not like we dont have tone of choice for our weapons...

[Remus Darkblight.1673]

19 hours ago, Alec B.8905 said:

OK so I am several fights deep, small group, zerg, 1v1. I have tried cele power mix, full cele, marauder zerk and I am on holosmith. I play wvw exclusively in this game mainly roaming.

This weapon is a nightmare with how unreliable it's ability is to hit anything including yourself. I will do my best to just focus on the weapon and not compare it to existing weapons.

• In the middle of battle I have to slow myself down so I can get the aoe effect of the abilities if I want to cast them on myself.
• I need something to catch people with the abilities
• The arrows feel impossible to hit a moving target including your own group if you are supporting or attacking another player (by the time they activate you are already gone from them)
• it takes too long for the arrow to hit the ground then activate 
• the aoe is so tiny you are able to walk out of most of the damage before the well can activate or the buffs
• SPEAKING of damage, it's got none even on full berserker this is hitting for nothing. it just needs more umf or reward the dps by chaining more arrows
• I would also like to say that for abilities that require chaining these cooldowns are crazy weird to try to plan proper chaining in the heat of battle
• I need these wells to last longer so I can play around the chaining ability and not only that they are just so short to do any of the effects
• I need a range increase to compensate for movement, by the time they can be detonated I can walk forwards and am already touching the arrow well, how am I supposed to hurt a moving enemy target?
• I think the wells need to be instant casts without the tiny delay when they hit the ground

They should just swap this to longbow so we can have adequate range to use this weapon.

I do think this weapon can be fun if we just get some compensating changes to make the weapon have more umf.

engi never wanted a full support weapon.

Well one of you is wrong 😅

[Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365]

The actual problem with it is that the chain reaction-mechanic holds the entire weapon hostage. In order for that to work the entire weapon needs to have the same theme. 
This would be fine for an elite spec with utilities and traits to support it, but on a weapon - especially on a class without weapon swap - you want a wide variety of skills providing different things.
The more streamlined the weapon is, the fewer utility choices you will find viable since you need to compensate for the lack of those skills the weapon lacks.

The entire thing is so far off the mark its rediculous

Edited November 29, 2023 by Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365

[Eekasqueak.7850]

1 hour ago, Remus Darkblight.1673 said:

Well one of you is wrong 😅

The creator of that thread has a vendetta against the class.