One more for the road.8950 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 1 minute ago, Chaba.5410 said: Same as the playerbase balances matches by destacking and so we don't need WR. Doesn't happen. Oh, so just another statement taken from thin air about how things supposedly works. Who would have imagined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeWolfe.2174 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 3 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said: Same as the playerbase balances matches by destacking and so we don't need WR. Doesn't happen. Players can and have moved if they can't get on map because of queues. Players can and have moved if there isn't sufficient content too. Players can and have moved if they aren't comfortable and enjoying other players on their World. To say people haven't moved is wildly dishonest. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeWolfe.2174 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 (edited) Ugg... how to delete when it posted 3 copies? Edited January 15 by DeWolfe.2174 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeWolfe.2174 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 (edited) Sorry folks o/ Edited January 15 by DeWolfe.2174 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 (edited) 5 minutes ago, DeWolfe.2174 said: Players can and have moved if they can't get on map because of queues. Players can and have moved if there isn't sufficient content too. Players can and have moved if they aren't comfortable and enjoying other players on their World. To say people haven't moved is wildly dishonest. It's dishonest to talk past my point about balancing matches with this fluff. I should add, dishonest to misrepresent my statement as well. Edited January 15 by Chaba.5410 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeWolfe.2174 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 Just now, Chaba.5410 said: It's dishonest to talk past my point about balancing matches with this fluff. All tiers should not be balanced, that's the point. People have different goals, objectives, temperaments, and maturity levels. We literally have teen's up to people in their 70's playing WvW. You think older folks appreciate some of what goes on in game, especially map/team chat? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One more for the road.8950 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 Just now, DeWolfe.2174 said: All tiers should not be balanced, that's the point. People have different goals, objectives, temperaments, and maturity levels. We literally have teen's up to people in their 70's playing WvW. You think older folks appreciate some of what goes on in game, especially map/team chat? And they all agree with how you present the NA system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeWolfe.2174 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 1 minute ago, One more for the road.8950 said: And they all agree with how you present the NA system? The answer to your question is this question. Ask players in NA if they've altered their play style to target being in or avoid a specific tier? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 (edited) 8 minutes ago, DeWolfe.2174 said: The answer to your question is this question. Ask players in NA if they've altered their play style to target being in or avoid a specific tier? Are you suggesting that avoiding Maguuma is players organizing the tiers by playstyle? Maguuma has moved up and down the tiers depending upon who they get linked with. Edited January 15 by Chaba.5410 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 (edited) 18 minutes ago, DeWolfe.2174 said: You think older folks appreciate some of what goes on in game, especially map/team chat? Really I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. I know some grandpas who play. They aren't how you think they are. You think their mindset magically becomes non-competitive and they take offense at everything? Edited January 15 by Chaba.5410 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 17 minutes ago, DeWolfe.2174 said: All tiers should not be balanced, that's the point. People have different goals, objectives, temperaments, and maturity levels. We literally have teen's up to people in their 70's playing WvW. You think older folks appreciate some of what goes on in game, especially map/team chat? Ah so you argue how you think tiers should be, not how it’s been in reality with populations, coverage and people bandwagoning just to win. Or are you saying that worlds end up in T5 just because it’s grandpas and grandmas playing there? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One more for the road.8950 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 Just now, Dawdler.8521 said: Ah so you argue how you think tiers should be, not how it’s been in reality with populations, coverage and people bandwagoning just to win. Or are you saying that worlds end up in T5 just because it’s grandpas and grandmas playing there? Oh my, did they get put in the retirement home server without knowing? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said: Or are you saying that worlds end up in T5 just because it’s grandpas and grandmas playing there? And all the teens are playing in T1. In fact, when you reach the age of 50, you are automatically placed on a T4 server and if you are under 20, you can only be in T1. New WR team formation algorithm. /sarcasm Edited January 15 by Chaba.5410 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One more for the road.8950 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 22 minutes ago, DeWolfe.2174 said: The answer to your question is this question. Ask players in NA if they've altered their play style to target being in or avoid a specific tier? Oh, that we do in EU as well. It's a far cry from "organizing the tiers" tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mabi black.1824 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 14 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said: Do you want to know the way your posts read here? Like someone who willfully ignores the actual implementation and just makes stuff up. No need to take you seriously. I mean, when the betas come in, players appear on the forum that you almost never see, or even have never seen. They come here and express their concerns about a new mechanic that is profoundly changing this game mode. The fact that all these players talk about team/server, teaming up with others, building a common action, participation, feeling that that Garry is your Garry etc etc should somehow make you think. Don't you think? 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeWolfe.2174 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 4 minutes ago, Mabi black.1824 said: I mean, when the betas come in, players appear on the forum that you almost never see, or even have never seen. They come here and express their concerns about a new mechanic that is profoundly changing this game mode. The fact that all these players talk about team/server, teaming up with others, building a common action, participation, feeling that that Garry is your Garry etc etc should somehow make you think. Don't you think? For me, yes I barely ever visit the forums since they were replaced years ago. But, when the Dev's actively choose to destroy my World, a World that I have spent over 10k hours on with others, I will have strong words and opinions about that! You can also see a large difference in our points of view by the language we use. Especially those who use the word "server" instead of "World". One is mechanical, cold, and disposable. While the other has value, meaning, and purpose. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mabi black.1824 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 I joined this forum for exactly this reason 3 years ago. And after all the discussions we've had since you called me 'ridiculous' just a few days ago, I still have all my concerns about this new mechanic. Because while it leads you to a much better distribution and balance, you're also breaking WVW with respect to what is the purpose and participation of the players. ANET should open a serious discussion on the merits of this. in my opinion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One more for the road.8950 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 8 minutes ago, DeWolfe.2174 said: For me, yes I barely ever visit the forums since they were replaced years ago. But, when the Dev's actively choose to destroy my World, a World that I have spent over 10k hours on with others, I will have strong words and opinions about that! You can also see a large difference in our points of view by the language we use. Especially those who use the word "server" instead of "World". One is mechanical, cold, and disposable. While the other has value, meaning, and purpose. Well, I am - and probably several others - glad that you have had a good experience with your server, or world, or what you want to call it. The world for me is Tyria, if y you want to nitpick. Good for you! Perhaps you could be kind enough to show the same level of understanding for those that haven't? And that perhaps the people that's having the same experience as you are dwindling in a rate that makes this change necessary? And instead of just disregarding their experiences take a moment to reflect on it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 11 minutes ago, Mabi black.1824 said: I mean, when the betas come in, players appear on the forum that you almost never see, or even have never seen. They come here and express their concerns about a new mechanic that is profoundly changing this game mode. The fact that all these players talk about team/server, teaming up with others, building a common action, participation, feeling that that Garry is your Garry etc etc should somehow make you think. Don't you think? They don't look like they want to have a serious discussion when they proclaim a loss of freedom in chosing who you play with when that choice is being moved from servers onto guilds. The function is still there, just shifted. Players coming here are upset that the system bugged in a way preventing them from playing with their choice, which they should be. It didn't work as advertised. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One more for the road.8950 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 Resistance to change shows in all aspects of life, what you know is safer because it is not new and something you have to adapt to. Even if that adaption is just a matter of changing perspective a little bit and otherwise it's business as usual. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 14 minutes ago, Mabi black.1824 said: I joined this forum for exactly this reason 3 years ago. And after all the discussions we've had since you called me 'ridiculous' just a few days ago, I still have all my concerns about this new mechanic. Because while it leads you to a much better distribution and balance, you're also breaking WVW with respect to what is the purpose and participation of the players. ANET should open a serious discussion on the merits of this. in my opinion. Wait, who are you responding to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mabi black.1824 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 4 minutes ago, One more for the road.8950 said: Resistance to change shows in all aspects of life, what you know is safer because it is not new and something you have to adapt to. Even if that adaption is just a matter of changing perspective a little bit and otherwise it's business as usual. I understand very well what you are saying. Personally, I have repeatedly stated that I am also waiting for WR like many others. If I reflect on this, I can tell you that probably participating in WVW every year in a new team/server could be more fun and more unpredictable than a team/server forever. But here we want to redo the servers every 30 days. And that puzzles me quite a bit. Players need more time to team up, get to know the other players, learn schedules and habits as well as the most diverse strategies etc etc. not to mention how necessary it is to give players the opportunity to participate in WVW in a competitive way, so a points ranking (carrot and stick) a symbolic award of winners compared to those who lose. WR should be a tool to make this server-based mode more compelling and not the other way around. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeWolfe.2174 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 21 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said: a loss of freedom in chosing who you play with when that choice is being moved from servers onto guilds. The function is still there, just shifted Guilds are tiny fraction of the size of Worlds. So yes, you are losing choice to whom you play with. And, it's a fallacy to believe WvW players only play with their guilds. Guilds are also controlled by an individual, which places player under their control. So yes, a player is certainly losing freedom and agency in the process. Worse, for those of us that are 5 of 5 on Guilds, we lose out on even having a choice without a loss of something else. This is a bad system and was flawed from the start however many years ago it's been now. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mabi black.1824 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 23 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said: Wait, who are you responding to? Quiet is aimed at all the guys who come here on the forum rarely, after a beta, to better understand how the new WR mechanic should work, with all their perplexities, which they will get as an answer that ''they are not taken seriously''. So they should not be discouraged, and demand all the answers they need. or constructively express all their opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 5 minutes ago, DeWolfe.2174 said: And, it's a fallacy to believe WvW players only play with their guilds. I didn't say I believe that. This is what alliances were supposed to be for. Up to 500 of your favorite players. It's a fallacy to believe everyone on your server picked it to play with everyone on that server. You don't have control over groups that you don't like transferring to your server. You don't have a choice in them or groups you do like leaving either. In this there is no difference with WR nor with server linking. Not sure why you want to pretend otherwise. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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