My thoughts on updated pistol for elementalist

[Anthony.8056]

So, they couldn't bother with showing off anything during the livestream because from the looks of it nothing has changed other than nerfs. Who are the people designing the skills for this class? It is a boring weapon that lacks creativity and nothing about it screams Elementalist. Just because it is a pistol doesn't mean every skill has to be a simple shot animation, many are fire a shot with conditions attached especially weaver. It is the same animations across four attunements and I can't see some of the earth animations. I honestly could care less about the numbers or balance because if the weapon isn't fun why bother with it.

[Atoclone.4810]

Just now, Anthony.8056 said:

So, they couldn't bother with showing off anything during the livestream because from the looks of it nothing has changed other than nerfs. Who are the people designing the skills for this class? It is a boring weapon that lacks creativity and nothing about it screams Elementalist. Just because it is a pistol doesn't mean every skill has to be a simple shot animation, many are fire a shot with conditions attached especially weaver. It is the same animations across four attunements and I can't see some of the earth animations. I honestly could care less about the numbers or balance because if the weapon isn't fun why bother with it.

This.  i'm quite happy to play something uncompetitive for general open world mucking about if it's fun. the pistol gives me no joy. them guardian pistols however.... 

[Doctor Hide.6345]

1 hour ago, Anthony.8056 said:

So, they couldn't bother with showing off anything during the livestream because from the looks of it nothing has changed other than nerfs. Who are the people designing the skills for this class? It is a boring weapon that lacks creativity and nothing about it screams Elementalist. Just because it is a pistol doesn't mean every skill has to be a simple shot animation, many are fire a shot with conditions attached especially weaver. It is the same animations across four attunements and I can't see some of the earth animations. I honestly could care less about the numbers or balance because if the weapon isn't fun why bother with it.

     Well, I actually don't mind the pistol. I like what they did with the animations, and I plan to use it as my main weapon from now on. The reason I started getting heavy into Ele was because I know pistol was coming for that spellslinger feel. And I am happy that it balances well at like 44k or 45k which makes it icing on the cake for me. 

     I know the idea of it was never well received though by the community here. I frankly don't care for bows now, the idea of a longbow for ele is just as boring in my mind as the pistol is for others here. I am just happy it won out even some don't like it. I still plan to use it. /shrug 

Edited February 28 by Doctor Hide.6345

[draxynnic.3719]

6 hours ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

     Well, I actually don't mind the pistol. I like what they did with the animations, and I plan to use it as my main weapon from now on. The reason I started getting heavy into Ele was because I know pistol was coming for that spellslinger feel. And I am happy that it balances well at like 44k or 45k which makes it icing on the cake for me. 

     I know the idea of it was never well received though by the community here. I frankly don't care for bows now, the idea of a longbow for ele is just as boring in my mind as the pistol is for others here. I am just happy it won out even some don't like it. I still plan to use it. /shrug 

From my perspective, I was advocating for a firearm-using elementalist, and I'm still disappointed. They focused too much on the gimmick (which manages to make ele rotations even MORE complicated) and not enough on making the skills themselves fun or distinctive.

[Shaman.2034]

On 2/27/2024 at 7:20 PM, Reig.8173 said:

Welp, every projectile weapon would be
A short bow: shot
A long bow: shot
A rifle: shot
 

...which is why the ideal weapon would have been (ranged) greatsword. But no, everyone wants lame projectiles for some reason

[draxynnic.3719]

9 hours ago, Shaman.2034 said:

...which is why the ideal weapon would have been (ranged) greatsword. But no, everyone wants lame projectiles for some reason

There are ways to do better than 'shot' and power scepter is already pretty good at punching through projectile hate.

There's precedent for making the magic bow (or gun) theme work without it being a boring case of nearly everything being a shot that hits a single target. The Amazon of Diablo 2 and the Demon Hunter of Diablo 3 are both examples of what could be done with an elemental archer theme. Even in the original Guild Wars there were a few elemental arrow skills in both ranger and elementalist, and they weren't all 'shoot one guy and the specific skill used only matters in the precise effect on the target when it lands' effects (and this was a game where that was the norm). Lava Arrows, for instance, had a low enough recharge to be the equivalent of an autoattack, and it had the effect of creating multiple projectiles directed at separate targets. Slap that on an elementalist bow and you could bring back something like the original Guild Wars barrage playstyle.

What we're seeing here isn't the fault of the weapon chosen, it's the fault of the devs thinking that the bullet mechanic would carry the weapon so they didn't have to make the skills themselves attractive.

[Doctor Hide.6345]

20 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

From my perspective, I was advocating for a firearm-using elementalist, and I'm still disappointed. They focused too much on the gimmick (which manages to make ele rotations even MORE complicated) and not enough on making the skills themselves fun or distinctive.

     So, I have been thinking about this all day. And basically,  I came to the conclusion I like the pistol so much aside from its theme of being a Spellslinger is because of the ammo mechanic. I don't see it as a gimmick at all. I think if they didn't do the ammo bullet mechanic like they did; it would have been an even more boring weapon to use. I don't think just adding spells for fire 1 2 3, water 1 2 3 etc... would have made it fun in my opinion because they would have no interaction.

    Now, I am not saying it is totally perfect because I do agree the showing the ammo needs some work to make it more visually different to see it easier. But that us more an UI problem than a pistol problem. The gun itself I am ok with because I think the ammo mechanic makes it interesting especially on weaver. And,  I am also ok with the damage of it coming out if the 44k stuff is true. I am all for them making scepter the power range if that is a true statement on their end. I am ok with pistol being the ranged condi weapon.

Edited March 1 by Doctor Hide.6345

[draxynnic.3719]

13 minutes ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

     So, I have been thinking about this all day. And basically,  I came to the conclusion I like the pistol so much aside from its theme of being a Spellslinger is because of the ammo mechanic. I don't see it as a gimmick at all. I think if they didn't do the ammo bullet mechanic like they did; it would have been an even more boring weapon to use. I don't think just adding spells for fire 1 2 3, water 1 2 3 etc... would have made it fun in my opinion because they would have no interaction.

    Now, I am not saying it is totally perfect because I do agree the showing the ammo needs some work to make it more visually different to see it easier. But that us more an UI problem than a pistol problem. The gun itself I am ok with because I think the ammo mechanic makes it interesting especially on weaver. And,  I am also ok with the damage of it coming out if the 44k stuff is true. I am all for them making scepter the power range if that is a true statement on their end. I am ok with pistol being the ranged condi weapon.

I see where you're coming from, and that's probably what the devs were thinking as well. I could point out how there are interactions between skills that happen organically with staff and scepter, without needing something like the bullet mechanic, because of the distinctive behaviours of the skills in question. However, possibly more importantly:

There's no reason, apart from developer resources, that we couldn't have had both.

And it really does feel as if the devs have been skimping on ele after Path of Fire. Catalyst feels like it's been assembled out of pieces left on the cutting room floor after Tempest and Weaver. It works, but it still feels like it worked because it copied the homework of its elder siblings. Hammer is mostly melee attacks with particle effects, and the exceptions are, with a couple of exceptions, still pretty simple. And now we have pistol where most of the skills feel like I cast bullet, I cast bullet, I cast bullet again and that's great. Also, while we're at it, the second weapon in a row that is gimmick-based (a gimmick that many people find just serves to make complicated ele rotations even more complicated).

Now, I'm sure it would be even worse without the gimmick, and if the gimmick is enough for you to have fun for it, good for you. However, I would ask this: Do you think you'd be having less fun if it had more distinctive skills AND the gimmick?

[Doctor Hide.6345]

6 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I see where you're coming from, and that's probably what the devs were thinking as well. I could point out how there are interactions between skills that happen organically with staff and scepter, without needing something like the bullet mechanic, because of the distinctive behaviours of the skills in question. However, possibly more importantly:

There's no reason, apart from developer resources, that we couldn't have had both.

And it really does feel as if the devs have been skimping on ele after Path of Fire. Catalyst feels like it's been assembled out of pieces left on the cutting room floor after Tempest and Weaver. It works, but it still feels like it worked because it copied the homework of its elder siblings. Hammer is mostly melee attacks with particle effects, and the exceptions are, with a couple of exceptions, still pretty simple. And now we have pistol where most of the skills feel like I cast bullet, I cast bullet, I cast bullet again and that's great. Also, while we're at it, the second weapon in a row that is gimmick-based (a gimmick that many people find just serves to make complicated ele rotations even more complicated).

Now, I'm sure it would be even worse without the gimmick, and if the gimmick is enough for you to have fun for it, good for you. However, I would ask this: Do you think you'd be having less fun if it had more distinctive skills AND the gimmick?

     To answer your question, it would maybe feel better depending on how it is done? So, I can see where you are coming from with your suggestions. I think some stuff on it can be improved, but I don't think it is trash tier because it doesn't have those distinct skills which I guess is one of the major things I disagree with here for some peeps. If they made it more skill distinct eventually, I wouldn't be complaining which is why I am not really fighting those ideas with people. I am ok with that. The main people I have a beef with is people who think it should be changed to an off hand when the chance of that is 0. They will build an off hand separately eventually for it if they keep this route up for weapons.

     But back to the main point which is I think it is an ok weapon. I think some stuff on it can be improved like bullet UI and some other tweaks. It is not a train wreck though like a lot make it out to be.

 

[draxynnic.3719]

14 minutes ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

     To answer your question, it would maybe feel better depending on how it is done? So, I can see where you are coming from with your suggestions. I think some stuff on it can be improved, but I don't think it is trash tier because it doesn't have those distinct skills which I guess is one of the major things I disagree with here for some peeps. If they made it more skill distinct eventually, I wouldn't be complaining which is why I am not really fighting those ideas with people. I am ok with that. The main people I have a beef with is people who think it should be changed to an off hand when the chance of that is 0. They will build an off hand separately eventually for it if they keep this route up for weapons.

     But back to the main point which is I think it is an ok weapon. I think some stuff on it can be improved like bullet UI and some other tweaks. It is not a train wreck though like a lot make it out to be.

 

Yeah, replacement altogether is not happening. If pistol feels rushed, throwing some replacement together outside of the normal cycle isn't going to be better.

[Thormagor.5418]

I found that loading billets before the figth make the pistol far more envoyable as you Can now react more quickly (instead of reload then shoot, you shoot then reload except in air , because you don't want cooldown réduction on thé dash)

[Puck.3697]

On 2/27/2024 at 9:41 PM, Nimrod.9240 said:

 

Yeah well, was pretty obvious from the beta what a disaster pistol will be. No point getting SotO for this, money saved, ty Anet

 

Ngl, even if pistol was fun it wouldn’t be a good reason to buy Soto lol. 
 

Legendary armour / story / able to use any weapon on any elite are tbh far larger change ups. 😂 don’t think I’ve ever bought an expansion for the sole reason of what a class gets. 
 

but if your stuck playing ele without warhorn I feel for you 😔 I’m pretty certain that leaves you with few options at the optimal side of that class 

Edited March 14 by Puck.3697

[Nimrod.9240]

4 hours ago, Puck.3697 said:

Ngl, even if pistol was fun it wouldn’t be a good reason to buy Soto lol. 
 

Legendary armour / story / able to use any weapon on any elite are tbh far larger change ups. 😂 don’t think I’ve ever bought an expansion for the sole reason of what a class gets. 
 

but if your stuck playing ele without warhorn I feel for you 😔 I’m pretty certain that leaves you with few options at the optimal side of that class 

No need to feel for me. 😄 I dont care about the story or whatever, Im only in it for WvW. I think I made it to the second HoT map years ago? Dont even know anymore, lol.

I have 2/3 legendary armor sets complete in WvW and saving up for the last one. Most of time running core sc/d ele and I am having a blast farming willbenders and getting salty whispers from mesmers. 😄 No need for an undercooked new weapon. Now thinking about it, if I remember correctly I fought one ele with pistol in WvW, right on release day, and none since then. Tells you everthing you need to know about this piece of 💩, tbh.

[Puck.3697]

56 minutes ago, Nimrod.9240 said:

No need for an undercooked new weapon. Now thinking about it, if I remember correctly I fought one ele with pistol in WvW, right on release day, and none since then. Tells you everthing you need to know about this piece

The vast majority of them are half baked, eh I still bought the expansion, just the same as I bought EoD even tho I didn’t like mechanist. 
 

when a games costing £20 every 2 years, it don’t take a lot for it to be considered value, the games too cheap to have that high of a return on 

Edited March 15 by Puck.3697

[JPUlisses.8756]

I like elementalist pistol.

[ScottBroChill.3254]

well I've been using pistol in open world group content and it's been not too shabby. Warhorn seems to be the best offhand for it. Being able to have a ranged option outside of scepter is nice, especially with less ground target abilities, easier to focus on catalyst fields. I liked playing catalyst as a buffbot with it, but weaver and tempest will get you more dps easier. The bullet mechanic does seem a little much, but like everything with ele it seems overly complicated at first but when you start to kinda know what the skills do it isn't the worst, but It does feel unnecessary.

Idk, at this point I don't think it's a terrible weapon, it gives ele another option where its lacking which is ranged combat and feels a little better to play for open world group content than scepter. I think my biggest gripe is it lacks a cool factor, but it's fun enough to where I'll probably stick with it for awhile. 

[Markus.6415]

On 2/27/2024 at 9:15 PM, RazieL.5684 said:

yup, pistol feels like using a long kitten to throw at your targets... it's by far the worst weapon in the game, even engi pistol feels better after the latest QoL changes

the diversity of skills is also amazing...

fire 1 is a SHOT, fire 2 is a SHOT, fire 3 is an aoe SHOT
water 1 is a SHOT, water 2 is 5 SHOT! water 3 is a field (this one actually is kinda nice)
air 1 is a SHOT, air 2 is a SHOT, air 3 is A DASH AND A SHOT
earth 1 is a SHOT, earth 2 is a SHOT, earth 3 is a SHOT

when i was saying that pistol is by far the worst weapon an elementalist can have people disagreed... i hate to be proven right but this weapon feels horrible to use and has literally 0 imagination used to create it... i mean my expectations were low to begin with BUT GOD kitten!

Seeing what they did with a hammer wielding Elementalist, i thought they couldn't get more unimaginative and boring. But the pistol is even worse skill wise and the kitten mechanic slapped over is is the overkill.

[nas.5249]

The original developers of gw2 were godlike compared to the current devs who clearly don't understand the elementalist class and why it used to be so enjoyable. When I think about why I stopped playing gw2 I think "pistol for ele".

[Markus.6415]

1 hour ago, nas.5249 said:

The original developers of gw2 were godlike compared to the current devs who clearly don't understand the elementalist class and why it used to be so enjoyable. When I think about why I stopped playing gw2 I think "pistol for ele".

This is the sad truth. The abilities, the skill designs... they were just great. Water trident, Dragontooth, Pheonix, healing rain, Meteorshower, the lightning whip, fire breath and ice breath. All cool ideas.