Obsidian Heavy Visual Feedback

[Malus.2184]

It looks great, except for the gap between the helmet and the chestplate. It just screams "ENEMY WEAK SPOT HERE!" Please add a high gorget to the chest and something that extends a little from the helm so that the material of the two connects.

Edited March 2 by Malus.2184

[Zera.9435]

21 minutes ago, Malus.2184 said:

It looks great, except for the gap between the helmet and the chestplate. It just screams "ENEMY WEAK SPOT HERE!" Please add a high forget to the chest and something that extends a little from the helm so that the material of the two connects.

That's what the shoulder armor is for: to protect the neck.

[Malus.2184]

7 minutes ago, Zera.9435 said:

That's what the shoulder armor is for: to protect the neck.

There's still a visible gap between the helmet and the chestplate. The shoulders would only protect against a horizontal attack. Against a frontal attack, it's just an advertisement to "ATTACK HERE!"

[Zera.9435]

4 minutes ago, Malus.2184 said:

There's still a visible gap between the helmet and the chestplate. The shoulders would only protect against a horizontal attack. Against a frontal attack, it's just an advertisement to "ATTACK HERE!"

This isn't Soul Calibur. This is a fantasy game. There are no vertical or horizontal attacks mechanics wise. They're just plain hits on the ENTIRE hitbox of a character regardless of what they are wearing.

Let's not try to bring 'realism' into this, because then we'd have to talk about how Sylvari should take extra damage from fire and charr should move more slowly after being hit by a water spell due to getting soaked and weighed down, or the fact that all light armor classes should technically be dying in one hit from any physical attack, or the fact that no player characters should be 'fat' because they're constantly running around killing things and burning calories like crazy, or the fact that technically we should also be taking our characters to someplace private to relieve themselves of urine or feces.

[Malus.2184]

18 minutes ago, Zera.9435 said:

This isn't Soul Calibur. This is a fantasy game. There are no vertical or horizontal attacks mechanics wise. They're just plain hits on the ENTIRE hitbox of a character regardless of what they are wearing.

Let's not try to bring 'realism' into this, because then we'd have to talk about how Sylvari should take extra damage from fire and charr should move more slowly after being hit by a water spell due to getting soaked and weighed down, or the fact that all light armor classes should technically be dying in one hit from any physical attack, or the fact that no player characters should be 'fat' because they're constantly running around killing things and burning calories like crazy, or the fact that technically we should also be taking our characters to someplace private to relieve themselves of urine or feces.

Many heavy armors in this game have the space between the helmet and the chest plate closed off in one way or another. Saying "this isn't Soul Calibur" is a thought-terminating cliche since this is GW and a lot of enclosed armour has this gap covered. Things must be narratively plausible. It's narratively implausible that people go into combat while advertising a weak spot as if they were a video game bosses.

Also Soul Calibur? The last entry that had "realistic armour" was Soul Blade and that was only in the case of Siegfried who was a knight. After he canonically took Soul Calibur it morphed into a generous interpretation of a chaos warrior armour.

Sophitia wore less armor than anyone in Xena. Taki's "armour" was pure fan service, etc, etc.

.

[Zera.9435]

4 minutes ago, Malus.2184 said:

Many heavy armors in this game have the space between the helmet and the chest plate closed off in one way or another. Saying "this isn't Soul Calibur" is a thought-terminating cliche since this is GW and a lot of enclosed armour has this gap covered. Things must be narratively plausible. It's narratively implausible that people go into combat while advertising a weak spot as if they were a video game bosses.

Also Soul Calibur? The last entry that had "realistic armour" was Soul Blade and that was only in the case of Siegfried who was a knight. After he canonically took Soul Calibur it morphed into a generous interpretation of a chaos warrior armour.

Sophitia wore less armor than anyone in Xena. Taki's "armour" was pure fan service, etc, etc.

.

I used Soul Calibur purely as an example of gameplay mechanics by referencing vertical and horizontal attacks. Don't make this about the 'armors' worn by Soul Calibur characters, as that is NOT what I was talking about.

[Malus.2184]

The visuals should always follow the narrative, or else you get narrative dissonance. For example, if a character behaved in a way that was utterly bloodthirsty, killed people left and right and was then without warning or reason depicted as the stereotypical hippie it would create narrative dissonance. And frontal attacks still exist in GW2. Any attack that only hits one target is by definition a frontal one.

[Zera.9435]

28 minutes ago, Malus.2184 said:

The visuals should always follow the narrative, or else you get narrative dissonance. For example, if a character behaved in a way that was utterly bloodthirsty, killed people left and right and was then without warning or reason depicted as the stereotypical hippie it would create narrative dissonance. And frontal attacks still exist in GW2. Any attack that only hits one target is by definition a frontal one.

So is an attack from behind or from the side, or above, or below, or all around the player's hit box. It's still one hit regardless of where it visually lands.

[Malus.2184]

45 minutes ago, Zera.9435 said:

So is an attack from behind or from the side, or above, or below, or all around the player's hit box. It's still one hit regardless of where it visually lands.

Imagine using game mechanics because there's nothing else to debate a visual.

[Zera.9435]

4 hours ago, Malus.2184 said:

Imagine using game mechanics because there's nothing else to debate a visual.

Imagine thinking that a character's visual style choice affects actual gameplay.

[Malus.2184]

10 hours ago, Zera.9435 said:

Imagine thinking that a character's visual style choice affects actual gameplay.

I've never argued that. Visual style affects how we interpret things. Look at Eparch's model for an example of this. People are so disappointed that he's something other than this eldritch horror they had made up in their minds that they overlook the far more interesting fact that he looks like Isgarren's current form and that Isgarren took it long after dismissing Eparch. This means that while Isgarren just wants Eparch to go away, Isgarren lives rent-free in Eparch's head.

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

I am presuming you mean it for charr edition of the armor? on humans as far as my previews goes, the neck is adequatelly protected 😉

but yeah, charr expose too much of the neck, even after the "fixes"...

[Malus.2184]

If I look at the model in game, Human and Sylvari female models, there's a visible gap of flesh between where the chest piece ends and the helm begins. The forget on the chest only goes halfway up the next where it should had been a full-lenght forget that went under the bottom of the helmet. The Charr gap is just straight-up insulting.

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

1 hour ago, Malus.2184 said:

If I look at the model in game, Human and Sylvari female models, there's a visible gap of flesh between where the chest piece ends and the helm begins

I see no flesh gaps here 🤔 https://imgur.com/a/Q4iP9ZR
I'd say that neck is sensibly protected at all feasible angles.

Cannot talk on sylvari, didn't try to look how it looks on them.

[Malus.2184]

1 minute ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

I see no flesh gaps here 🤔 https://imgur.com/a/Q4iP9ZR
I'd say that neck is sensibly protected at all feasible angles.

Cannot talk on sylvari, didn't try to look how it looks on them.

Then the male model have a higher gorget, the female model has a visible gap between the chest and the helm.

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

14 minutes ago, Malus.2184 said:

Then the male model have a higher gorget, the female model has a visible gap between the chest and the helm.

Let me quickly boot the game to take a look at previews there....

Ok, had to rotate her to see it: https://imgur.com/a/AVCOuBC

Frankly seeing how it is, I would not call it "screaming hit here", and it should be reasonable covered against slash attacks, but it would be indeed very vulnerable to being stabbed at.
Seeing how it was not exactly visible from the up front on female, I decided to hop back to my guardian...

When I rotate it I can just about see the gap there https://imgur.com/a/ihE3biU
This is also a case of could be stabbed there, but at this gap size, it would be difficult to spot or aim for in the first place.

EDIT: if you find it to be too big of an immersion issue, this ceases to be a problem if you swap the shoulderpiece to the kodan from sorrows embrace dungeon. This one will protect your neck from grand most of the angles 🙂

Edited March 2 by Lord Trejgon.2809

[Malus.2184]

That you can see it at all makes it visible. This is WOW's Battlegear of Moight on a male model's levels of exposure.

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

4 minutes ago, Malus.2184 said:

That you can see it at all makes it visible. This is WOW's Battlegear of Moight on a male model's levels of exposure.

Things that are visible at particular angle, are definitelly not things, anyone would be able to just notice in the heat of fight. Since I don;t play WoW I had to google it, and the graphics I found outside of completely missing any helmet in the first place, were not specifically exposing any bit of the nack for males, but had some chest exposure for females, so I have no idea what do you mean here.

[Malus.2184]

https://www.wowhead.com/classic/item-set=209/battlegear-of-might

Should be on a male model with a helmet. What you see as exposed is a result of the armour in WoW for the most part being a texture. Look up "Jade Armor WoW Female" if you really want to see exposed.

https://imgur.com/hD0WQMB

White armour because that Sylvari has dark skin. If I can see something clearly once I'm past the faceplate then it's visibly exposed.

 

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

4 minutes ago, Malus.2184 said:

https://www.wowhead.com/classic/item-set=209/battlegear-of-might

Should be on a male model with a helmet. What you see as exposed is a result of the armour in WoW for the most part being a texture. Look up "Jade Armor WoW Female" if you really want to see exposed.

https://imgur.com/hD0WQMB

White armour because that Sylvari has dark skin. If I can see something clearly once I'm past the faceplate then it's visibly exposed.

 

Ok once I found the buttons for 3d preview, it came out clean, that what I thought was a collar, is supposed to be face mask.

That being said, seriously? it is nowhere near close to same neck exposure.

Also your choice of picture for sylari, is not really telling, because at this combination it looks like a shadow, not exposed bit of anything 😉

[Ashen.2907]

2 hours ago, Malus.2184 said:

https://www.wowhead.com/classic/item-set=209/battlegear-of-might

Should be on a male model with a helmet. What you see as exposed is a result of the armour in WoW for the most part being a texture. Look up "Jade Armor WoW Female" if you really want to see exposed.

https://imgur.com/hD0WQMB

White armour because that Sylvari has dark skin. If I can see something clearly once I'm past the faceplate then it's visibly exposed.

 

That WoW armor would get you killed faster than any small gap in the new obby.

[Malus.2184]

13 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

That WoW armor would get you killed faster than any small gap in the new obby.

Only due to location. The gaps are pretty much the same size. Helm of Might protects you if the attack comes from the side and Obsidian Heavy protects you if the attack comes from the front, that's the only difference.

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

5 hours ago, Malus.2184 said:

Only due to location. The gaps are pretty much the same size. Helm of Might protects you if the attack comes from the side and Obsidian Heavy protects you if the attack comes from the front, that's the only difference.

ok, but did you try to like rotate the model of the WoW armor? because the gap in that one is easilly 3 times the size of gap in obsidian armor (for human male/female) if not more. Like thing is huge and any upward jab going towards the head is going to bypass the faceplate that armor you referenced seems to call a helmet.

[Malus.2184]

4 minutes ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

ok, but did you try to like rotate the model of the WoW armor? because the gap in that one is easilly 3 times the size of gap in obsidian armor (for human male/female) if not more. Like thing is huge and any upward jab going towards the head is going to bypass the faceplate that armor you referenced seems to call a helmet.

I played the game for a decade and looked at Might for years and there's a huge difference between male and female since for some reason the female head model is tilted and the helmets are lowered, so on females, the gap would be large non-existent in return for more of the top of the head being revealed. The same is apparently present here where the male model of Obsidian Heavy has no gap while the female does.

[Malus.2184]

Dude, the picture I posted IS rotated. I no longer believe that you're debating in good faith since you ignored something I objectively did. This shows that you've already decided by bias that the gap is okay. Please, give that argument to anyone who knows about full-plate.