Emboldened Mode - Raids

[Quirin.1076]

CM is available for Raids / Strikes / Fractals - 100% of the time, simply by clicking a little glowing NPC.

Could Emboldened Mode work in a similar way as CM are?  Only recently learned that this type of mechanic exists in other games that have raiding and it is used as a way to learn the mechanics of the fight as well as see the raid. 

Just a thought.

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Quirin.1076 said:

CM is available for Raids / Strikes / Fractals - 100% of the time, simply by clicking a little glowing NPC.

Could Emboldened Mode work in a similar way as CM are?  Only recently learned that this type of mechanic exists in other games that have raiding and it is used as a way to learn the mechanics of the fight as well as see the raid. 

Just a thought.

The idea of limiting emboldened mode is probably about funneling players wanting to try it out into one wing instead of splitting them between 7.
The idea of having CMs always available is for the players/groups to clear them weekly.

Edited April 2 by Sobx.1758

[Quirin.1076]

On 4/2/2024 at 4:40 PM, Sobx.1758 said:

The idea of limiting emboldened mode is probably about funneling players wanting to try it out into one wing instead of splitting them between 7.
The idea of having CMs always available is for the players/groups to clear them weekly.

Why the limit though?   It seems being able to learn a raid mechanic every other month seems extremely limiting.  Also could you imagine learning trigonometry if you could only go to class a single day every other month?

I used CM is an example of a mechanic in the game which allows a player to change the difficulty.  Fractals allows you to choose the difficulty, you get level and CM.  Dungeons allows you to choose the difficulty, you get story and paths.   

[Cyninja.2954]

50 minutes ago, Quirin.1076 said:

Why the limit though?   It seems being able to learn a raid mechanic every other month seems extremely limiting.  Also could you imagine learning trigonometry if you could only go to class a single day every other month?

I used CM is an example of a mechanic in the game which allows a player to change the difficulty.  Fractals allows you to choose the difficulty, you get level and CM.  Dungeons allows you to choose the difficulty, you get story and paths.   

Your entire premise is flawed given you don't NEED emboldened mode to learn mechanics. Every player is perfectly capable to practice on raids any day of the week, if he has the group for it.

Emboldened simply funnels a certain type of player into 1 wing per week, making sure those players have an easier time to find groups.

Are you seeing the issue here? You are assuming emboldened mode is there to allow players to practice mechanics, when it is not in fact. Emboldened mode makes 1 select wing easier in order to funnel players into that wing. Once players are successful, they are free to enjoy other raid wings, ideally with the connections they have made.

As far as CMs, they actually suffer from the same issue: lack of players willing to engage with them. Here though both the target audience is more niche, as well as a base assumption is present that players actually interested in CMs will be already familiar with the content and most important: game play basics. These players don't need to learn to play this game, unlike players which enter certain instanced content for the first time.

Edited April 16 by Cyninja.2954

[Quirin.1076]

11 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Your entire premise is flawed given you don't NEED emboldened mode to learn mechanics.

It was a question about why not be able to always choose the difficulty.   Not a question about funneling players, not sure where that is coming from.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Emboldened
Emboldened (also known as Emboldened Mode) is an effect active in a single raid wing on a weekly rotation, effectively lowering the difficulty of each encounter and giving players a chance to familiarize themselves with each boss's mechanics.
 

Not every player is perfectly capable to do raids.  Some have sensitivity to bright flashes due to medical conditions.  Some are color blind and struggle to see mechanics.  Some people have difficulty using their hands properly and feel it is a burden if they are carried.  Some people do not see the mechanics because their computer simply does not render them or they do not see them.  I am not questioning why people struggle with playing 10 player content.

Is being able to choose which raid is emboldened hurtful to the game and player base?  Does it harm the game in any way to allow players to be able to choice the difficulty?   Or does being able to choose emboldened hurt funnels?

[Cyninja.2954]

30 minutes ago, Quirin.1076 said:

Is being able to choose which raid is emboldened hurtful to the game and player base?  Does it harm the game in any way to allow players to be able to choice the difficulty?   Or does being able to choose emboldened hurt funnels?

Yes, it does. 

Making emboldened available at all times would:

1. Remove its effect of funneling similar players into the same content. 

2. Effectively introduce a lower difficulty, which would either undermine the content, or would need to have its rewards adjusted. Either change would damage the content integrity

The wiki is player maintained. Instead of treating it as the be-all end-all, put in some personal critical thought and take 5 minutes to think about how certain implementations affect player engagement (and how altering them changes player behavior).

What you are essentially trying here is:"I didn't ask about this effect on the issue I am talking about, therefor it does not apply" and that kitten will not fly.

TL;DR:

Does allowing players to select emoboldened mode freely negatively impact the content? Yes it does.

Edited April 17 by Cyninja.2954

[Dibit.6259]

Think the main reason they made it one wing per week was to make sure people didn't abuse the system. Emboldened gives the same rewards as normal, so if they had more than 1 wing per week, say 1 wing per day, people would just do Emboldened in each wing for weekly clears rather than nm. There would be no incentive to learn and improve to then do nm weekly clears.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

its important to understand that in this game, the difficulty curve ranges from something like 1-100 instead of 1-10 like in other games. the game may seem easy to hardcore veterans, but casual players can't even begin to touch instanced end-game content, then you have everyone in the middle who can do both casual or hardcore but isn't going to full clear all wings every week because they'd have to raid every day to do that.

 

i think what you're looking for is something more like "story mode", or "dungeon mode", which currently don't exist in raids (though maybe should). this was something they rectified for strike missions but never went back and updated raids for it.

Edited April 18 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[Trevor Philips.3824]

I wish emboldened mode gave you the +50% stat boost from the beginning, rather than slowly increment it by 10% each time. Feel like that would make it more fun for experienced players. If players don't want to skip mechanics because their dps becomes too high, they can just turn emboldened off. 

Edited May 1 by Trevor Philips.3824

[Sobx.1758]

On 4/16/2024 at 3:02 PM, Quirin.1076 said:

Why the limit though?

I explained that in the post you just quoted there. Which part exactly requires further explaining?

On 4/16/2024 at 3:02 PM, Quirin.1076 said:

 It seems being able to learn a raid mechanic every other month seems extremely limiting.  Also could you imagine learning trigonometry if you could only go to class a single day every other month?

Raid mechanics aren't locked in any way behind emboldended mode, so not sure what this is supposed to be about. If anything, "/gging for the dps/dmg resistance" encourages (and makes it easier) skipping certain mechanics. Your reasoning here doesn't seem to match the request/question.

 

On 4/17/2024 at 12:03 PM, Dibit.6259 said:

Think the main reason they made it one wing per week was to make sure people didn't abuse the system. Emboldened gives the same rewards as normal, so if they had more than 1 wing per week, say 1 wing per day, people would just do Emboldened in each wing for weekly clears rather than nm. There would be no incentive to learn and improve to then do nm weekly clears.

Exactly. Wonder if OP would be all for 24/7 emboldened mode availability "to learn mechanics" if that mode locked the rewards. I suspect that suddenly "learning the mechanics" wouldn't really be the goal there.

Edited April 18 by Sobx.1758

[Quirin.1076]

On 4/18/2024 at 11:24 AM, Sobx.1758 said:

I explained that in the post you just quoted there. Which part exactly requires further explaining?

So why not funnel CM's?  Change CM's to only work one per day.    That way you can funnel players wanting to do CM's

[Cyninja.2954]

57 minutes ago, Quirin.1076 said:

So why not funnel CM's?  Change CM's to only work one per day.    That way you can funnel players wanting to do CM's

I explained this above:

Because the goal with CMs is a different one.

Would CMs benefit from being locked out similar to emboldened for giving more players an opportunity to try them? Sure.

Is that the goal with CMs? No.

The goal for CMs is not to provide more players easier access to said content but rather give experienced players a challenge.

2 different design principles behind 2 different mechanics.

This is really not that hard to understand.

[zeyeti.8347]

As said above the emboldened is for players to train more easily on encounters they have hard times on , not to provide players an easy quick source of LI/Kp , and anet disabled all achievements linked to the encounter when emboldened so that's another prove of the goal of this design , you just had to look the lfg the first time w5 was emboldened , it was full of training session.

Emboldened = train on a boss so you can do it regularly every week without emboldened.

Cm = as Cyninja stated above.

5 hours ago, Quirin.1076 said:

Change CM's to only work one per day

For fractals i suppose ? cause raids Cm works only once a week as normal or emboldened or you think the 3 green and 6 blue non id gear is a good reward for making dhuum cm a second time a week 😆? Because you can do as many cms as you want and to the wing who is emboldened as much as you want , it's only the reward who is really not worth the time.

 

 

 

Edited April 21 by zeyeti.8347

[Sobx.1758]

8 hours ago, Quirin.1076 said:

So why not funnel CM's?  Change CM's to only work one per day.    That way you can funnel players wanting to do CM's

Did you read the initial post?

On 4/2/2024 at 10:40 PM, Sobx.1758 said:

The idea of limiting emboldened mode is probably about funneling players wanting to try it out into one wing instead of splitting them between 7.
The idea of having CMs always available is for the players/groups to clear them weekly.

Because it's right there. There's less new players who try getting into the content at the same time than there are players who at least relatively consistently replay the cms. Funneling new players towards one wing makes it easier for them to find/make a group for an encounter.

You're trying to claim that you need emboldened mode to learn mechanics, but that's false. You also don't need to repeatedly learn the mechanics anyways, so even if you actually believed in the argument you're going for, you don't need to replay emboldened mode every week to learn the same mechanics every week. You learn them once and then you should be able to play in normal mode, because the mechanics are the same.
Emboldened mode shouldn't even have the same rewards as normal mode and shouldn't include LI. Again, wonder if then you'd still try claiming it's about "learning mechanics".

Edited April 21 by Sobx.1758

[Quirin.1076]

I used CM as an example of how you can select the difficulty.  

It was only a question and I was not implying it was only to learn mechanics,  I did say that on my first post mainly because that is part of the wiki.  However posts after that I also claimed people have disabilities and there is already other content in the game that allows you to pick the difficulty.   Emboldened Mode would kill raid sellers market and it would also hurt groups that require your account API in order to join their raid training.  It would not hurt the random lfg groups as they typically cover all the boons and healing and fill with dps.

 

The raids are story content, but I have honestly ran so many raids,  I simply skip over all the cut scenes as soon as they pop up.  However when I run a training raid with friends who have never done raiding content and they stop to watch all those cut scenes, it is content they have never seen and they have played since the start of Guild Wars 2.   They really appreciate the story content, because that is what they really like about the game. That is what Guild Wars 2 started as and has always been sold as,  a Living Story.  They also get a sense of accomplishment when they killed the boss with no stacks of emboldened.   Emboldened Mode simply helps to them to that goal.

Just a suggestion, I do not have anything against funnels.  

[Sobx.1758]

7 hours ago, Quirin.1076 said:

It was only a question and I was not implying it was only to learn mechanics,

On 4/16/2024 at 3:02 PM, Quirin.1076 said:

Why the limit though?   It seems being able to learn a raid mechanic every other month seems extremely limiting.  Also could you imagine learning trigonometry if you could only go to class a single day every other month?

You sure tried claiming it's about learning mechanics and that emboldened mode is somehow needed to do it in the first place.

7 hours ago, Quirin.1076 said:

They also get a sense of accomplishment when they killed the boss with no stacks of emboldened. 

Which they don't need emboldened mode for. If emboldened mode is always there, what's the point of them learning anything when they can just stack the buff instead. I don't think your argumentation is in line with your request.

[Quirin.1076]

On 4/27/2024 at 9:13 AM, Sobx.1758 said:

Which they don't need emboldened mode for. If emboldened mode is always there, what's the point of them learning anything when they can just stack the buff instead. I don't think your argumentation is in line with your request.

I have given other comments outside of "learning mechanics" this is direct from the wiki, so you are arguing with Areanet wiki.    Why not quote the other ones,  Color Blindness not available in game,  Light sensitive players not seeing mechanics, physical disabilities due to age,  Limited time for gaming due to jobs and families, computers not rendering mechanics due to game being over 10 years old. 

[rawisz.6439]

You are clearly stating that you only care for geting free loot every week in emobldened mode without any effort. This is exactly a reason why there is only 1wing with this mode rotating. If they would change so you have emoldened for every wing all the time they would have to cut rewards from it. You cant have  same rewards for same content where in one mode you can afk encounter and in other you have to put some effort and learn mechanics and group coordination... There would be no point to do harder difficulty.

Edited April 29 by rawisz.6439

[Sobx.1758]

11 hours ago, Quirin.1076 said:

I have given other comments outside of "learning mechanics" this is direct from the wiki, so you are arguing with Areanet wiki.    Why not quote the other ones,  Color Blindness not available in game,  Light sensitive players not seeing mechanics, physical disabilities due to age,  Limited time for gaming due to jobs and families, computers not rendering mechanics due to game being over 10 years old. 

It's not "arenanet wiki", it's "player's wiki". If color blindness is an issue, go ask for color blind mode. If players are light sensitive (and yet they're able to play the rest of the content of the game?), maybe working on their monitor settings could help. Someone not having time to play the game isn't a reason to change the game. If "computers are not rendering mechanics due to the game being over 10 years old"(???), make a thread in bug/technical support subforum. If you want free rewards, play some autoafker/clicker game instead. It was explained to you why it is like it is, not sure what you're still not understanding here.

[Quirin.1076]

On 4/29/2024 at 6:25 AM, rawisz.6439 said:

You are clearly stating that you only care for geting free loot every week in emobldened mode without any effort. This is exactly a reason why there is only 1wing with this mode rotating. If they would change so you have emoldened for every wing all the time they would have to cut rewards from it. You cant have  same rewards for same content where in one mode you can afk encounter and in other you have to put some effort and learn mechanics and group coordination... There would be no point to do harder difficulty.

On 4/29/2024 at 9:05 AM, Sobx.1758 said:

It's not "arenanet wiki", it's "player's wiki". If color blindness is an issue, go ask for color blind mode. If players are light sensitive (and yet they're able to play the rest of the content of the game?), maybe working on their monitor settings could help. Someone not having time to play the game isn't a reason to change the game. If "computers are not rendering mechanics due to the game being over 10 years old"(???), make a thread in bug/technical support subforum. If you want free rewards, play some autoafker/clicker game instead. It was explained to you why it is like it is, not sure what you're still not understanding here.

I was making a suggestion based on talking to a friend who plays other games that have raids with a similar mechanic as Emboldened Mode.

I was simply suggesting to pick Emboldened Mode and not wait over a month to play the same raid.   I know that posting on forums is a solid way to get toxic responses instead of constructive conversation.   Thanks again for the toxic response.

[Sobx.1758]

17 minutes ago, Quirin.1076 said:

I was making a suggestion based on talking to a friend who plays other games that have raids with a similar mechanic as Emboldened Mode.

I was simply suggesting to pick Emboldened Mode and not wait over a month to play the same raid.   I know that posting on forums is a solid way to get toxic responses instead of constructive conversation.   Thanks again for the toxic response.

There were plenty of constructive answers to the exact arguments you used here (and isn't that what you asked for in your last post too?). Just because you dislike those answers or people disagreeing with them, doesn't make anything about it "toxic". If you keep overusing words like this, they lose all meaning.
So until you're ready to have an actual discussion about it, you probably should reread this thread and take a note how what you were writing from the start of the thread does not line up with what you started saying later. First it was about learning mechanics, now -after the obvious has been pointed out- it's "because you[r friend] want to keep replaying easy mode without waiting a month". It's almost as if that's the least the easy mode can do to nudge players towards actually learning the mechanics and playing the encounters on their normal difficulty level.

Either you want an honest discussion or you want to scream "toxic!" any time someone responds to your argument and you dislike it. For now, you sure are not discussing anything, instead you're throwing out whatever you can think of (color blindness? Light sensitivity? Someone not having time to play the game??? Mechanics not rendering because the game is 10 years old??) and hope something sticks.

Edited May 1 by Sobx.1758

[Cyninja.2954]

1 hour ago, Quirin.1076 said:

I was making a suggestion based on talking to a friend who plays other games that have raids with a similar mechanic as Emboldened Mode.

I am going to go out on a limb here and assume: those other games are not as horizontally designed as GW2 and giving players stacking buffs to overcome raid content before or after the next set of raid content has dropped is one way of keeping the gear thread-mill going.

Different itemization and reward design basically.

Quote

I was simply suggesting to pick Emboldened Mode and not wait over a month to play the same raid.   I know that posting on forums is a solid way to get toxic responses instead of constructive conversation.   Thanks again for the toxic response.

You did and you got responses which explained, multiple times, why changing emboldened mode to be permanent would undermine the contents integrity as well as undermine one of its main design functions (funneling).

You then decided to keep altering your argument, in way to obvious ways, without actually getting to the point: you want easier raid rewards.

In the end, the decision is Arenanets to make and given emboldened does exactly what it is meant to do, I would not hold my breath on them changing the way it works.

Edited May 1 by Cyninja.2954

[Quirin.1076]

On 5/1/2024 at 1:49 PM, Cyninja.2954 said:

Different itemization and reward design basically.

Raid rewards are a joke for the time to play them.   How is content you can only do once a week considered an exploit with Emboldened Mode?

 

On 5/1/2024 at 1:49 PM, Cyninja.2954 said:

main design functions (funneling)

If the Main design function of Funneling players was real they would fix the massive issue of maps closing and moving players to empty maps.  They would also do a better job on keeping players in the same party on the same map.  Oh yeah they do, simply select join map after you joined map, funneling works as well as an avalanche, some rocks will hit the mark.

 

On 5/1/2024 at 1:49 PM, Cyninja.2954 said:

keep altering your argument

I was simply giving reasons why some people might need Emboldened.  You do not know why someone might need emboldened and neither do I, but even ArenaNet said there was an increase of people trying raids.  They stopped short of clearing raids, simply an increase of players trying raids.  Players that spent years running raids also complained when Emboldened was add because they said it made content easier, that was not supposed to be easy.

 

On 5/1/2024 at 1:49 PM, Cyninja.2954 said:

you want easier raid rewards.

Raid rewards are a joke.  The only thing people had with doing raids is you get some gold, but you can get more gold running fractals in the same amount of time.    lol, you combined raids and rewards together, anyone that runs raids know there is no rewards after your first clear worth anything. You can run Fractals forever and keep getting the same amount of loot. Unlike Raids which work like a world boss, but for the entire week, aka not a farm.

 

Emboldened Mode is a difficulty setting and it is content in the game.  With open world PvE Legendary Armor available now, Raids are more or less dead content.

 

Edited May 8 by Quirin.1076

[Cyninja.2954]

2 hours ago, Quirin.1076 said:

Raid rewards are a joke for the time to play them.   How is content you can only do once a week considered an exploit with Emboldened Mode?

Raid rewards are actually very good, for any player which needs ascended gear.

Which is completely irrelevant regarding the itemization I was talking about, which is based around horizontal versus vertical item progression.

Quote

If the Main design function of Funneling players was real they would fix the massive issue of maps closing and moving players to empty maps.  They would also do a better job on keeping players in the same party on the same map.  Oh yeah they do, simply select join map after you joined map, funneling works as well as an avalanche, some rocks will hit the mark.

Completely different issue. Completely different design element in this game. Completely different type of content.

You are grasping at straws with poor arguments. This is funneling for instanced content where one of the major issues is getting enough similar minded and skilled players together. That issues, which also persists for certain open world content, is often far less an issue there (which does not mean that better funneling for open world content would not also be a good idea).

Quote

I was simply giving reasons why some people might need Emboldened.  You do not know why someone might need emboldened and neither do I, but even ArenaNet said there was an increase of people trying raids.  They stopped short of clearing raids, simply an increase of players trying raids.  Players that spent years running raids also complained when Emboldened was add because they said it made content easier, that was not supposed to be easy.

This can apply to any type of reward. Any reward in this game is technically something a player might "need" or let's better say "want". Handing every single reward out like candy would hilariously break this game, even more than it is already broken.

Quote

Raid rewards are a joke.  The only thing people had with doing raids is you get some gold, but you can get more gold running fractals in the same amount of time.    lol, you combined raids and rewards together, anyone that runs raids know there is no rewards after your first clear worth anything. You can run Fractals forever and keep getting the same amount of loot. Unlike Raids which work like a world boss, but for the entire week, aka not a farm.

Again, raid rewards are actually quite decent, especially for players in need of ascended gear. Let's not forget legendary armor and the legendary ring, which are even with open world legendary armor coveted by some.

Good news though, if raid rewards are so poor, there is no need to make them more accessible.

Quote

Emboldened Mode is a difficulty setting and it is content in the game.  With open world PvE Legendary Armor available now, Raids are more or less dead content.

Great, then go get open world legendary armor. You do not consider raids worth your time anyway so win-win.

To reiterate what I said earlier since you still don't seem to get it: none of us have any influence on how emboldened mode works, and given it works pretty well for what it is designed to do, the only ones which can make changes (the developers) are likely not to. Your personal disagreement with their decision is of no concern to anyone here. Some of us are merely sharing why we think the current implementation makes sense.

Edited May 8 by Cyninja.2954

[Artemis.8034]

On 4/2/2024 at 3:40 PM, Sobx.1758 said:

The idea of limiting emboldened mode is probably about funneling players wanting to try it out into one wing instead of splitting them between 7.
The idea of having CMs always available is for the players/groups to clear them weekly.

Thats because there arent enough players willing to try. the stigma this game has as an open world game is killing instanced content. There is a whole base of players out there that would love to play gw2 if they kept up on raids dungeons and instanced content. Cant even fill groups hardly, when was the last raid released? Killing raids and dungeons is a mistake, they can make dungeons relevant by having drops you cant get anywhere else, and dare i say it, mount skins linked to specific  dungeons only. Maybe make some achievements in dungeons that award a mount skin, or a box of clovers or something