Vindicator Suggestion

[arazoth.7290]

Just an example for vindi what they could do instead dodge damages/ healing/barrier giving and few other traits/abilities listed: 

• Death Drop instead of the damage it does, it empowers archemorus abilties, 1 charge/dodge, they stack up.

• Imperial Impact instead of the damage it does, it empowers archemorus/Saint viktor abilities, 1 charge/dodge, they stack up. It would been a generalised effect for both, no different.

• Saint's Shield Instead of the healing/barrier it grants, it empowers Saint Viktor abilities, 1 charge/dodge, they stack up.

• Reaver's Curse: enchances these further and reduces Energy meld cd like it is now.

• Angsiyan's Trust: stays same

• Song of Arboreum: Grants vigor to you/allies, no instant endurance increase anymore.

Outgoing Allies affected by your vigor have 10% higher outgoing damage and 10 % higher incoming healing, 15% higher incoming boon duration.

• Redemptor's Sermon: Simplest way, reduce cd to 45 seconds in pvp/WvW and pve to 20 seconds. Health minimum effect trigger on 80% health. 

• Energy meld: Instead of the 15, 25 endurance it, if used it grants you 2 empowerment charges.

• Alliance Tactics: in PvP/WvW 5 second cd, in pve 3 second cd is fine. So now switching between each other is more fluent but still has some cd to be aware off.

[arazoth.7290]

At this point people are just following with confused marks because others do it 😂🫶

[idolin.2831]

No dude, there is a reason almost every single comment of you has been reacted to with confused. Take a hint. 

[arazoth.7290]

6 hours ago, idolin.2831 said:

No dude, there is a reason almost every single comment of you has been reacted to with confused. Take a hint. 

I see you're too narrow minded, the same about that reaction on that build which you didn't even try and already had your mind set on 😅.

People are having complains about the vindicator grandmajor dodge traits in every content.

Either they want it nerfed because too much damage, self sustain, allies sustain because you just dodge, reducing the dodges to noting nerf after nerf. Or either in pve they want to press it more often and they can't, they want more high uptime vigor/empowered vigor for more dodges.

So I don't see why it can't be solved by linking it to alliance stance. Vindi evade empowers yourself with the passive effect still, but direct stuff is gone like said explained, and it also now empowers alliance stance abilties like explained. Energy meld would be linked with this all more too.

If they can't balance a dodge direct effects on enemies/allies like healing, damage, barrier, let them do it like this. They did empowerment effects succesfull on centaur tablet/salvation/kalla stance too.

Yes I am saying kalla stance too, the only things there is missing is rework on e-spec traitline, F2 skills, overall lower energy on stance/f-skills. But the empowerment effects are nice, it only misses the other stuff to complete.

So why don't you all try to think what for empowerment effects could be added to alliance stance in such way. 

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

6 hours ago, idolin.2831 said:

No dude, there is a reason almost every single comment of you has been reacted to with confused. Take a hint. 

Obtena has a contender now.

[arazoth.7290]

Oke have fun letting them keep on nerfing it because they don't know what to do. That far it doesn't matter even more, because it's a bad design and holding your head in the ground doesn't help not seeing what they keep on doing

[UncreativeGreen.2019]

1 hour ago, arazoth.7290 said:

They did empowerment effects succesfull on centaur tablet/salvation/kalla stance too.

I would call those both those reworks far from successful…Your rework ideas tend to add layer upon layer of extra effects outside of anets basic ability to tweak cool downs and boon durations. Is it possible to change more? Absolutely, and I’d love to see some of peoples ideas injected into the game (although watered down some so it’s not something like x causes y which interacts with z causing x to reset…) It’s just the current balance team has shown time and time again that design isn’t their forte, and neither is balance xD… you generally get a confused reaction from me because it’s so left field and outlandish. It’s like a rocket scientist bringing their schematics to a bunch of preschoolers that just wanna draw on walls with crayons … it’s too complex for what this games design is, and what the current devs are capable of. Better off screaming into a void than any suggestion, especially complete reworks, making it through (which is an accurate description of 99% of these forum posts)

Edited May 3 by UncreativeGreen.2019

[Jobber.6348]

3 hours ago, Vasdamas Anklast.1607 said:

Obtena has a contender now.

Obtena at least took the hint that their absolute L takes do not vibe with people who play Revenant on the regular. This dude just straight up doubles down and thinks his idea is hot stuff.  His "reworks" also LOVE to do the stupid trade-off philosophy that Anet loves doing and then tries to sell it to us like it's an improvement. 

Edited May 3 by Yasai.3549

[arazoth.7290]

2 hours ago, UncreativeGreen.2019 said:

I would call those both those reworks far from successful…Your rework ideas tend to add layer upon layer of extra effects outside of anets basic ability to tweak cool downs and boon durations. Is it possible to change more? Absolutely, and I’d love to see some of peoples ideas injected into the game (although watered down some so it’s not something like x causes y which interacts with z causing x to reset…) It’s just the current balance team has shown time and time again that design isn’t their forte, and neither is balance xD… you generally get a confused reaction from me because it’s so left field and outlandish. It’s like a rocket scientist bringing their schematics to a bunch of preschoolers that just wanna draw on walls with crayons … it’s too complex for what this games design is, and what the current devs are capable of. Better off screaming into a void than any suggestion, especially complete reworks, making it through (which is an accurate description of 99% of these forum posts)

It would be more complex yea and I can agree that others apparantly clearly don't like it 😂

But I just want to see others their suggestions too and maybeeee out of the many comes something good. That balance team might notice and think about using it.

Without input they seem to stay longer stagnant, thinking things are fine 😐. For example about scepter since we got it, we should keep reminding them what they did isn't going well.

[arazoth.7290]

16 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Obtena at least took the hint that their absolute L takes do not vibe with people who play Revenant on the regular. This dude just straight up doubles down and thinks his idea is hot stuff.  His "reworks" also LOVE to do the stupid trade-off philosophy that Anet loves doing and then tries to sell it to us like it's an improvement. 

Any better ideas? Feel free to share, the more ideas, the higher chance we get something good 😁.

I care about revenant and it's my main, this idea was just a suggestion noting more. Nobody has always good suggestions, I have had good ones and bad ones in the past and some outrageously stupid ones too 😅. 

But this post is also to see mostly how others think some problems might be solved. Stuff that they keep happening from balancing out in the right ways. So any help is welcome, not involved further on my idea of ofcourse.

Also I am always open for feedback as long it's responded in "civilized" way, but not everyone is like that sadly enough. I try to keep as much as I can that myself in forum section... so I hope others would too

[zeyeti.8347]

The only thing i will add to vindi is more cc , cause it really lacks ... and no no for staff i am staying 2x sword/Greatsword , but besides that vindicator is fine and really fun (especially against trash mobs with sigil of endurance , making me feel like a bomber with infinite ammo and fuel).

And your suggestion will nerf his damage , many vindicator i know (and myself) generally use to remove from archemorus/viktor legend to help the group with dwarf road or ventari bubble and stay with shiro cause "impossible odds" rocks ! so your suggestion will make every vindi dps go archemorus/viktor no matter what and that's a bad design having a whole 3 choice for gm traits affect only one legend is really not a good idea... also idc what happens to Vassals of the Empire and Saint of zu Heltzer but don't touch Forerunner of Death , this trait is the icing , the toping and the cherry of the cake !

Maybe add alacrity to one of the other trait , i could really get some use for a good alacrity power dps.

And energy meld must stay with 1/2 dodge refill , more dodges = more damage, only thing i would do is remove the cast time and make it instant.

Sorry but i am with the confused group (plz anet add a "disagree" emoji ... i am not confused i just don't agree ^^)

 

Edited May 3 by zeyeti.8347

[UncreativeGreen.2019]

55 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

The only thing i will add to vindi is more cc , cause it really lacks ... and no no for staff i am staying 2x sword/Greatsword

I really wish the flip over skill on GS4 was never just more damage. In fact, remove all its damage for some type of 'vacuum' pull skill. Like a version of warriors staff 'snap pull' skill or kinda like the mallyx leap pull. Then add the removed damage back into GS5.... Can you imagine how good it'd feel to cancel your block on GS4 to use the flip over skill that pulls 5 mobs together in a nice tight pile and then GS5 them all down.... If only.

[arazoth.7290]

4 hours ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

The only thing i will add to vindi is more cc , cause it really lacks ... and no no for staff i am staying 2x sword/Greatsword , but besides that vindicator is fine and really fun (especially against trash mobs with sigil of endurance , making me feel like a bomber with infinite ammo and fuel).

And your suggestion will nerf his damage , many vindicator i know (and myself) generally use to remove from archemorus/viktor legend to help the group with dwarf road or ventari bubble and stay with shiro cause "impossible odds" rocks ! so your suggestion will make every vindi dps go archemorus/viktor no matter what and that's a bad design having a whole 3 choice for gm traits affect only one legend is really not a good idea... also idc what happens to Vassals of the Empire and Saint of zu Heltzer but don't touch Forerunner of Death , this trait is the icing , the toping and the cherry of the cake !

Maybe add alacrity to one of the other trait , i could really get some use for a good alacrity power dps.

And energy meld must stay with 1/2 dodge refill , more dodges = more damage, only thing i would do is remove the cast time and make it instant.

Sorry but i am with the confused group (plz anet add a "disagree" emoji ... i am not confused i just don't agree ^^)

 

disagree emoji would be nice addition of choice yes😁.

My point was that imo the instant effects of dodge specs like extra direct damage, healing/barrier (not the passive buffs) are giving some designs that are hard to balance. And they keep getting nerfed by them because they think it's either too strong or other reasons they decide by idk all. 

So they implemented this but don't seem to fully want it. Last patch Imperial impact boon removal for example, maybe because of WvW so it got overall removed?

If they would take a look at it different we need some overal more damage implemented back yes, because atm it's like you say tuned around the output of dodge. 

So I can see why people disagree because they ofcourse don't want a lot lower damage and so on

[arazoth.7290]

3 hours ago, UncreativeGreen.2019 said:

I really wish the flip over skill on GS4 was never just more damage. In fact, remove all its damage for some type of 'vacuum' pull skill. Like a version of warriors staff 'snap pull' skill or kinda like the mallyx leap pull. Then add the removed damage back into GS5.... Can you imagine how good it'd feel to cancel your block on GS4 to use the flip over skill that pulls 5 mobs together in a nice tight pile and then GS5 them all down.... If only.

That would be some nice fluent mechanic yes

[Jobber.6348]

17 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

I care about revenant and it's my main, this idea was just a suggestion noting more. Nobody has always good suggestions, I have had good ones and bad ones in the past and some outrageously stupid ones too 😅. 

Probably because you keep calling out people confuse reacting as if they've done you a huge injustice. Just swallow the pill and accept no one likes your rework ideas, or it's not popular with forum users in general. Agree with other dude: maybe add a disagree instead of confuse react being the defacto disagree emote. 
 

I have also posted plenty of suggestions but if people hate it you don't see me going all defensive. If people think it's bad, then it's probably bad, but that's the point of the post anyway: to put an idea out there and see how many people vibe with it. So far, very few of your suggestions vibe with the Revenant players (at least on forum) so just take it as it is. If you want to keep suggesting, no one is telling you to stop, but just be aware no one here is "out to get you" as your little callouts suggest. 

There's been a trend lately with Anet class design which basically culminates in one simple term: RANDOM BULLS**T GO!

Vindicator is the prime example of this design and to be honest your Vindi suggestions all double down on this random nonsense. There's no focus at all in the suggestions. Do you want Vindicator to be better at DPS? Do you want Vindicator to be better at Support? Do you want to refocus Vindicator into a DPS with BoonDPS capabilities? What the heck is buffing Redemptor's Sermon even gonna do for the spec as a whole? Also, even more shackling to Alliance Legend via your GM trait suggestions. Yes what we need is for traits to force us to use certain things, as if Reaver's Curse wasn't already enough to force us to hit that Energy Meld button.

I have massive issue with Vindicator's traitline in general. 4 Traits are linked and shackled to 1 feature of the whole spec (That dodge). That is TERRIBLE design. And you want to shackle them further to Alliance via the GMs. Why? What should be done is to make sure each trait offers a way for the player to express a playstyle they want to play. I have already made this example in another thread: DD has 3 GMs that significantly alters how their dodge functions. All Vindicator has is changing the property of the dodge but it's the same old up down which is neither interesting or changes your gameplay. You still mashing that dodge and making your entire focus into mashing that dodge more as part of your rotation. 
 

[Gazrul.3086]

I just want the middle Vindicator traits to be reverted to how they were, and for the F2 to be reworked into something actually fun. 

[zeyeti.8347]

On 5/3/2024 at 10:47 PM, arazoth.7290 said:

That would be some nice fluent mechanic yes

Gave you a heart so you are less in disagreement with people ... euh i mean confusing ... dang.

Don't take it too personal , many people like reading ideas of others , but fact is vindi. is really appreciated the way it is actually , the energy meld need some adaptation and people seem to agree we need more cc , but for the rest it's a solid spec , fun and efficient the way it is , also you have 15 utilities ! that's some hard versatility here.

And if anet is really afraid to put cc on a hard nuking class for pvp and wvw , well why not add very little cc (like 1/4 sec daze) but with a huge breakbar bonus damage (like renegade Darkrazor's Daring) making it a solid pick for pve endgame, cause this is one of the reason i play reaper instead of vindi. , the cc !

Edited May 5 by zeyeti.8347

[Jobber.6348]

4 hours ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

And if anet is really afraid to put cc on a hard nuking class for pvp and wvw , well why not add very little cc (like 1/4 sec daze) but with a huge breakbar bonus damage (like renegade Darkrazor's Daring) making it a solid pick for pve endgame, cause this is one of the reason i play reaper instead of vindi. , the cc !

Good example is Arch's Stunbreak has a daze on it. 30 Energy/35 Energy for a Stunbreak that does aight damage and a daze. 

1. It's overloaded that it does so much

2. Must it cost so much? Can't we trim some of this and move the CC over to another skill? 

If Anet doesn't like abilities to be too powerful then they shouldn't have designed it to be like that, then force us to adapt to an ever increasing Energy cost "for balance reasons" It's just so insanely frustrating that Revenant is constantly being plagued with the "too much utility on a button with low cooldown so we jack that Energy cost up up up up, deal with it" 

Really wish we have CC that doesn't cost a bomb to even use. Our "best" pocket CC atm is on Mallyx too and even then it has a 30 Energy cost and a 5s cooldown. The least they could do is finally rework Forced Engagement into what it should have been from the start: an AoE ranged taunt up to 5 targets in 240 range. Now that'll be a good reliable CC for Revenant's arsenal that has a fair cooldown, fair effect and just leagues better than its current form.

Another CC skill which could use a brush up is Jade Winds. OH MY GOD PLEASE MAKE THIS COST LESS OR REWORK IT. It's so underwhelming to throw 50 Energy out the window for some Vuln stacks that Revenant can already poop out the butt and do no damage in competitive or kill your entire DPS rotation in PvE. There's a reason why this skill is pressed so little in EVERY GAME MODE. IT'S JUST NOT GOOD. 

 

[zeyeti.8347]

23 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Another CC skill which could use a brush up is Jade Winds. OH MY GOD PLEASE MAKE THIS COST LESS OR REWORK IT. It's so underwhelming to throw 50 Energy out the window for some Vuln stacks that Revenant can already poop out the butt and do no damage in competitive or kill your entire DPS rotation in PvE. There's a reason why this skill is pressed so little in EVERY GAME MODE. IT'S JUST NOT GOOD. 

yeah the jade winds is te perfect example , very good cc in a large aoe , but the 50 enrgy cost ... wth , this skill should be halved cost in energy in pve , cause if you choose shiro as a stance it's because impossible odds amazing dps and this skill cannot be used if you use 50 energy ... that's one problem with revenant , all skills are used in very specific situation but the skill who has maintenace cost is always prio one to use in dps mode , it only do not matter as healer.