Necromancer Spear Description

[XECOR.2814]

15 hours ago, Magmi.6723 said:

How have you decided this? lol.

Unless I’m missing something here. Necromancers other options don’t have teleports etc etc that this class brings, 

let’s of course ignore the condition it has completely unique to itself while we are here.

for its comparison to greatsword, that will be down to numbers. If it does more damage then greatsword it will simply do it better then anything we have. 

im ngl, it simply just sounds like your salty regarding the role it fills, it doesn’t need to be unique in its additions to be a better option to what exists. 

ignore numbers on a DPs weapon, interesting take. 

it has higher mobility baked into it then necros alternatives. It has a unique condition only applicable by the spear. It also has CD resets which simply allow the necromancer to execute more times. 

to try and say it does nothing current necro weapons can’t do, is abit weird. 

You think you can execute, you cant. You will see that as soon as you take these builds into beta agianst others lmao unless you play games where enemy doesnt do anything and stand and facetanks a necromancer in melee range while they have 0 debuffs.
Just because it does some new tricks doesnt change the overall role it wants to do. And it doesn't do anything new to change any matchup.

I'm not against the design, but it should do what it wants to do well. Not half bake it and copy paste old code to just make it barely work. 
I would be happy if the #4 did a blind on port. Because that means it gives u cover after u port to land your skills.
Similarly if the #3 was 300 range cone to reliably hit enemies because that is your only lf generator on this whole kit and the only disrupt ability. Rather than a 130range single target skill.
Or if the autos did anything other than 130range, 3/4sec cast (only damage, only damage then chill chain)
Or if the stacking mechanic is garbanzo life siphon that eats up the power budget while giving nothing in return but also making the weapon not have higher power burst than whats existing already. Just because of life siphon, anet wont make spear do more damage than gs, because otherwise no one will play gs. But the thing is gs already not an execute level damage. So anything below that is already not an execute.
These are all logical statements and this is the truth of what going to happen. I pity people who are on cope and people who dont have ability to see how things will turn out.
If it wanted to execute, it shouldve had faster auto 1/2s cast, no life siphon mehcanic, just omega dps stacking mechanic through Soul shards and boon stack
and it should do more damage than greatsword in competitive modes.

Edited Sunday at 11:56 AM by XECOR.2814

[Magmi.6723]

41 minutes ago, XECOR.2814 said:

ou think you can execute, you cant. You will see that as soon as you take these builds into beta agianst others lmao unless you play games where enemy doesnt do anything and stand and facetanks a necromancer in melee range while they have 0 debuffs

We have one of the highest sustains in the game. Lol

your argument is melee weapons don’t work on spvp? Why not? We are literally already the focus target permanently? 

were you one of the ones screaming harbinger will never be good during its beta? 😂😂 that elite turned out so overpowered despite the claims 

Edited Sunday at 12:10 PM by Magmi.6723

[Magmi.6723]

45 minutes ago, XECOR.2814 said:

f it wanted to execute, it shouldve had faster auto 1/2s cast, no life siphon mehcanic, just omega dps stacking mechanic through Soul shards and boon stack

Why are you so against life siphon. U are aware this isn’t swords life cost mechanic right? It’s just a self heal for hitting the target. 

and no, that description just fits “if you want be absolutely overpowered beyond what the games seen so far” with necros sustain, Shroud and more. That’d just be another Overpowered launch…

you can’t have a class that actively is self sufficient and does huge damage, the reason reapers dmg is nerfed is to trade off for its self sufficiency….

i am sure 99% of the weapons will absolutely suck normally they do in beta, but it’s known what launched was the polar opposite. 

Edited Sunday at 12:15 PM by Magmi.6723

[XECOR.2814]

17 hours ago, Magmi.6723 said:

We have one of the highest sustains in the game. Lol

your argument is melee weapons don’t work on spvp? Why not? We are literally already the focus target permanently? 

were you one of the ones screaming harbinger will never be good during its beta? 😂😂 that elite turned out so overpowered despite the claims 

another case of didnt read all.
I'l tldr it for you.
Life Siphon => (Defense mechanic, not really) => The power damage lower than greatsword because power budget went to "defense"
But greatsword is alread low damage for execute.
Every decent player knows life siphon sucks, im the only one who has to explain it to forum people fml.

Edited Monday at 06:08 AM by XECOR.2814

[Magmi.6723]

12 minutes ago, XECOR.2814 said:

another case of didnt read all.
I'l tldr it for you.
Life Siphon => (Defense mechanic, not really) => The power damage lower than greatsword because power budget went to "defense"
But greatsword is alread low damage for execute.
Every decent player knows life siphon sucks, im the only one who has to explain it to forum people fml.

You think greatsword will do more damage then Spear? 

I honestly doubt that will be the case by final product, none of its power budget is going to go to Defense, lol, it’s literally referred to as a high burst assassin weapon. 

which means they basically looking at WB, I.e the ability to leap on someone and explode them. 

The idea is U isolate, perforate, shroud. that’s basically the combo they’re driving. 

I find it unlikely they’re going to make spear worse than GS lol. 

Edited Monday at 06:20 AM by Magmi.6723

[Dadnir.5038]

6 hours ago, Magmi.6723 said:

You think greatsword will do more damage then Spear?

Yep I do. Soul shards are a noob trap that look great on paper but drag you down in practice. The spear will have unsatisfying damage output for the very same reason warhorn and focus does.

Now, if you're playing in cleric gear, I don't doubt that you'll get a higher damage output with spear than with any other necromancer weapon. If you're playing a build with crit chance, GS will undoubtly be the better option.

[XECOR.2814]

1 hour ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Yep I do. Soul shards are a noob trap that look great on paper but drag you down in practice. The spear will have unsatisfying damage output for the very same reason warhorn and focus does.

Now, if you're playing in cleric gear, I don't doubt that you'll get a higher damage output with spear than with any other necromancer weapon. If you're playing a build with crit chance, GS will undoubtly be the better option.

finally someone who understands whats going on.

[Asum.4960]

On 6/23/2024 at 2:13 PM, Magmi.6723 said:

Why are you so against life siphon.

Probably because we've been around for almost 12 years now and seen how it performed ingame over that time. 

Let's look at some of the precedents:

Soul Grasp (Focus 4): Pretty much a dead skill that's not worth it's cast time to press since it was changed to Life Siphon in 2019. Despite having been quadruplet in power since, it's at best very meh.

Locust Swarm (Warhorn 5): Pretty much a dead skill that's not worth it's cast time to press since it was changed to Life Siphon in 2019, aside from getting some measly 50% Swiftness uptime, but which also puts you in combat if you walk past any enemy. 

Blood Magic (Vampiric+Vampiric Presence): Never even remotely been a viable DPS line in 12 years, even if you are willing to sacrifice some DPS for sustain, the Life Siphons just are not even close. 

Augury of Death (Reaper Shout Trait): Lol

Battle Scars/Dance of Death (Revenant; Devastation): The only Life Siphon in GW2 that was ever good (in PvE), so good in fact that it was the highest DPS choice - for which it's coefficient was nerfed not by 20%, not by 50%, but 94%. It does <1/16th of it's original damage now. 

But I'm sure Soul Shards will be different! No way it will either be already terrible on launch or get nerfed into the ground later. 

8 hours ago, Magmi.6723 said:

The idea is U isolate, perforate, shroud. that’s basically the combo they’re driving. 

And while the idea is nice enough on paper, we literally already have this ingame. It's core Death Shroud. Dark Path/Pursuit (projectile engage skill that needs to hit, priming and warning the target of a teleport follow up) into Tainted Shackles (Immob) followed on by Life Transfer (a "burst skill" with a lot of it's power budget being spent on a siphon-like). 

That's what Isolate, Addle, Perforate is, except with likely higher single target damage, but fully melee and without being shielded by a 50% damage reducing second health bar, and therefor being even more prone to being CC'ed and bursted, Necromancer's biggest weakness as class with no active defense.

Besides, a slow, obvious, projectile which if dodged leaves you sitting there with zero engage or chase options is just not a good idea, esp. against universally more mobile foes. Nor is announcing your teleport burst with a giant skull on the targets head, which you need to follow up on within 3 seconds, giving the target the ideal time to sort out their response, store up a dodge, prep their invuln/block/teleport, etc. 

What's the winning condition with this in a game where everything else is more mobile and has active defenses? 

On 6/23/2024 at 2:09 PM, Magmi.6723 said:

your argument is melee weapons don’t work on spvp? Why not? We are literally already the focus target permanently? 

Didn't you just answer your own question? Out of Shroud you have to run and kite for your life as Necromancer, or if you can escape being the focus target for a moment, poke from range. How does Spear either serve that purpose, or provide the tools (evades, blocks, projectile destruction, stability, invuln, etc.) to overcome having to do that?

[Vennyhedgie.5369]

On 6/23/2024 at 2:35 AM, StraightPath.3972 said:

Polar opposite of me then. The more I think about it, the more excited I get and ideas pop into my head.
But to sum it up real short on my end - from where I stand spear's design is solid, the only make or break being the numbers.
Both dps and healing from shards need to have proper values to matter, and encourage build craft.
Still it's far easier to adjust the numbers if they are off, than a bad weapon design and I'm totally not talking warrior spear... maybe.

But you can already do that with Greatsword and Swords...

[Magmi.6723]

20 hours ago, Asum.4960 said:

But I'm sure Soul Shards will be different! No way it will either be already terrible on launch or get nerfed into the ground later

In all honesty, all the weapons sit on gimmicks that will be nerfed into the ground, weapon mechanics existing on some weapons and not others is power creep and objectively would make every other weapon obselete if were done well. 

but this isn’t the first time Anet have launched something nobody thought would work and suddenly came out beyond meta.

willbender and Harbinger being examples of this, these 2 specs received outright outrage during their betas and they were terrible in beta. But they launched OP as hell lol 

with or without the siphon is irrelevant, they referred to the weapon as a assassin weapon, which means they intend the weapon to immediately hit really hard, but long term fall off. That design would never instill CC options or proper survivability. 

I don’t think it being a melee weapon means it’s doomed, as the weapons literally built on the idea of initating and immediately weapon swapping / shrouding. And tbh the siphons won’t change what the weapon is intended to be.

However sure your likely correct this isn’t balancable, we are far more likely to see necro go off the walls for 3 months and it be nerfed into a pve exclusive weapon without heavy changes to things, but tbh if we were to spend the year exclusively using spear, it’d be pretty bad also and likely people would grow bored so weather that’s good or bad is debatable 

the primary concern of the weapon id argue is its shroud generation being fairly low. 

- make Isolate generate larger Shroud. 
- Soul shares generate an amount of shroud juice per stack added. 

give us a a large boost on the generation of our instant combo and it’d follow the assassin theme 

Edited Tuesday at 11:22 AM by Magmi.6723

[Asum.4960]

2 hours ago, Magmi.6723 said:

In all honesty, all the weapons sit on gimmicks that will be nerfed into the ground

I don't agree with this. Most other Spears are full of simply good, solid core mechanics - which are either really difficult to nerf and or have plenty precedent of staying unnerfed. 

Taking Warriors as example since they have been complaining maybe the loudest (from what I've seen): A ~900 range weapon with 2 Evades, target free movement skill, Immob, and multiple Combo finishers, including 2 Blasts, is just a solid kit, always is, always will be, no gimmicks. Is it what I wanted for Warrior? No. Does everybody have to be happy with it? Of course not. But it certainly looks like a far more solid skill kit.

Ele Spear is so full of just solid, proven mechanics, it's impossible to even sum them up quickly, but between Condition Cleanses, Evades, Stability, Projectile Destruction, Superspeed, Barrier, Pulls, Floats and more Combo Fields and Blasts on one weapon than all of Necromancer combined, it's safe to say it's stacked - and those aren't gimmicks either.

The most "gimmicky" weapon arguably might be Thief Spear with the combo system - but for GW1 players, even this is a tested and true system which worked perfectly well for the Assassin Profession. How it flows in GW2 remains to be seen ofc, but at least within that system are solid skills. It has the ranged poking+melee AA which they left out for Necro as well, and while there is some lifesteal in there on 3 (which are likely the skills you'll generally skip in the chain) it also features Boon Rip, on top of Stealth, an Evade and Blocks which are all solid core mechanics. 

3 hours ago, Magmi.6723 said:

willbender and Harbinger being examples of this, these 2 specs received outright outrage during their betas and they were terrible in beta. But they launched OP as hell lol 

Design and balance are very different things. Something can be terribly designed but balanced, well designed but terrible balanced, and everything in between. 

From what I recall, and still maintain personally, the backlash these specs received was mostly for being poorly designed and boring thematically - not due to their efficacy. 

It's easy to make something, like for example Necro Spear, OP, just tune the coefficients way too high. That doesn't mean that it's a well designed kit fulfilling of the Profession's need though. 

In fact, Harbinger always performed well, contrary to what you stated I even remember it vastly overperforming in it's first Beta - to a point where Traits like Septic Corruption and co. where pretty much nerfed by 50%, but even despite it's overperformance, it was never well designed and rightfully got criticised for that. But people, including Anet, never listen, so here we go again.

[Magmi.6723]

41 minutes ago, Asum.4960 said:

don't agree with this. Most other Spears are full of simply good, solid core mechanics - which are either really difficult to nerf and or have plenty precedent of staying unnerfed

Based on? 

- Mesmer spear is designed to specifically require positioning, this is completely unreliable in a PvP environment where players move more erratically. 

- Elementalist brings the class that’s squishy deletion of active sustain, while also demanding they sit in a huge graphic which if Stunned will be completely lost and the corner point of their damage. 

- Revenants is too slow animationally to actually land an ability in PvP. 

- engineers focus mechanic will mess them up if kited as will struggle to switch targets when things go south. 

- Warriors… well yeah I don’t think anyone’s happy with them. 

- guardians 0 self sustain, lowest damage lacks a definitive role. 

- thief’s could possibly be good? But if ur against a player that reacts they can reset ur combos refusing you the initiative regeneration which will leave you unable to use ur follow up attacks.

rangers could be good? Depending on the balancing 

most of the spears are completely isolated to only rly holding hope in pve. These gimmicks conflict with PvP a lot. If the only way the weapon can work, is in the game mode that literally anything can work, then it isn’t a well designed weapon lol.

none of the spears past their shiney effects rly hold much hope outside of pve rotations. Because their gimmicks demand things which these weapons can provide unreliable results at best 

Edited Tuesday at 03:51 PM by Magmi.6723

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

44 minutes ago, Magmi.6723 said:

- Elementalist brings the class that’s squishy deletion of active sustain, while also demanding they sit in a huge graphic which if Stunned will be completely lost and the corner point of their damage.

Nitpick here, but the elementalist themselves are the only ones who can see said graphic.  Everyone else just sees the presence of the appropriate combo field.

[Vile.4387]

After watching the video, looks interesting.

[Magmi.6723]

On 6/25/2024 at 5:35 PM, Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

Nitpick here, but the elementalist themselves are the only ones who can see said graphic.  Everyone else just sees the presence of the appropriate combo field.

No ones going to wait to see if you etch? Your just gonna get dove on, it lacks sustain entirely, your a free target for any burst class really and the fastest to remove from a fight.

also other players will see a ring around you it’s just not detailed, if your using spear everyone’s gonna know what the field around you is. 

the weapon has no peel, and only has 1 real mobility weapon skill, your gonna get nuked playing ele spear in spvp, it will have use in pve providing it brings the numbers of course.