Where are the airships built?

[XCLASSGAMING.9830]

I was wondering last night, where do they build these things? especially the glory of tyria, the huge one in HOT's first zone. Is there some form of ship yard?

[Forgotten Legend.9281]

I'm really tired while posting this, so i might be VERY bacon deficient, and therefore forgetting something very important, but here goes: 

there have been very few locations revealed in game (Twilight Arbor, Aerodrome in Lion's Arch after HoT raids), but obviously not all factories were revealed to us (such as Core build locations before season 1, and other pact locations that built the airships used in season 2 leading up to HoT)

My best guess, would be irrelevant because it has to be very vague, and core maps never really showed any airship factory sites. You'd think there'd be some evidence in Black Citadel or Rata Sum or even Fort Trinity, but nothing. we saw Aetherblade factory (i don't remember if they built them in edit: Gendarren Fields near Lion's Arch in the cave, so i don't know if we can add that to their factory in Twilight Arbor)

but so far, no info about where they built the larger ships (like Glory of Tyria)

EDIT: i'm not even sure that Twilight Arbor was a factory or just a hideout... the wiki is unfortunately not very informative, because neither is the game: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Airship

Edited June 9 by Forgotten Legend.9281

[Kalavier.1097]

The thing is core maps rarely change unless something huge goes down.

We know LA has their own airships (beyond the ones stolen from aetherblades). Kryta has airships as well. The Pact fields the largest fleet, and the corsairs also obtained a bunch of airships. The aetherblade airship fleet is defunct now though, but showcased a wide range of airship sizes that everybody presumably has access to.

Vigil Keep, LA aerodome, Black citadel, are all likely locations for it. We know of a few private citizen airships (The Nobles airship that was at the jungle, and Tixx's custom airship).

Twilight arbor was a hideout + a factory, but it was rendered null. There is the Aetherblade airship dock in Gendarren though. 

[Dean Calaway.9718]

There's no good answer to be given here, we are never told where the Glory of Tyria was built or that we even had it until we see it... you'd think the commander of the pact would be previous to that information.

On 6/9/2024 at 12:49 PM, Forgotten Legend.9281 said:

no info about where they built the larger ships

I wouldn't touch on that either, considering the Aerodrome features miniature ships.

Even in Orr you can fly up to the ships there if you're skilled enough only to contemplate how these ships are smaller than your Skyscale, forced perspective defeated by mounts.

 

[Kalavier.1097]

35 minutes ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

There's no good answer to be given here, we are never told where the Glory of Tyria was built or that we even had it until we see it... you'd think the commander of the pact would be previous to that information.

I wouldn't touch on that either, considering the Aerodrome features miniature ships.

Even in Orr you can fly up to the ships there if you're skilled enough only to contemplate how these ships are smaller than your Skyscale, forced perspective defeated by mounts.

 

They did compartmentalization of information because if you got killed and became Risen, Zhaitan knows. Also IIRC, it wasn't even fully ready by the time Arah assault started. And the Commander was a frontline champion, not a shot caller.

And there are some cases of perspective toying with size to make things look normal sized while the maps are smaller. This can be easily inferred that the Aerodrome is capable of handling full sized airships of the various "classes" we've seen throughout the base game and EoD.

[draxynnic.3719]

Minor nitpick, but there is a discussion in an instance that reveals the existence of a bigger airship that "isn't ready yet" before you see the Glory of Tyria. 

On the OP - I suspect the first wave were built by the Legions. with human and asura engineers from the Pact providing additional touches. A large part of the point of the Citadel of Flames dungeon from the PC's perspective was getting the High Legions to make their industrial capacity available for the Pact. The Inquest (and through them the Aetherblades) acquired them through some form of industrial espionage or piracy, and they were probably spread to all of the capitals between the Dry Top and Silverwastes portions of Season 2).

Edited June 17 by draxynnic.3719

[Trejgon.9367]

11 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

They did compartmentalization of information because if you got killed and became Risen, Zhaitan knows. Also IIRC, it wasn't even fully ready by the time Arah assault started. And the Commander was a frontline champion, not a shot caller.

There is NPC chatter about glory of tyria being behind the schedule and not making it to the assault in the fort trinity right before you go to assault arah. Even calling it the pact flagship.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

from what we've seen, the airships use modular construction and were likely built directly at fort trinity and camp resolve. i guess they only have to bring the parts through the gate, then put it together, a process which you can see happening in twilight arbor with ships that are still being completed.

 

(this is a standard of industrial fabrication processes, which the charr are known for.)

Edited June 17 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[Kalavier.1097]

16 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Minor nitpick, but there is a discussion in an instance that reveals the existence of a bigger airship that "isn't ready yet" before you see the Glory of Tyria. 

On the OP - I suspect the first wave were built by the Legions. with human and asura engineers from the Pact providing additional touches. A large part of the point of the Citadel of Flames dungeon from the PC's perspective was getting the High Legions to make their industrial capacity available for the Pact. The Inquest (and through them the Aetherblades) acquired them through some form of industrial espionage or piracy, and they were probably spread to all of the capitals between the Dry Top and Silverwastes portions of Season 2).

It's mentioned that the reason the Airships work was a combined effort of Asura, Human, and Charr engineers working together which would have the originals be Pact, but then everybody else started getting them. EoD did give us variant airship classes on the smaller side though which I'd say probably existed for a while in general but weren't used by the Pact because lack of weapons.

[EdwinLi.1284]

I always assume there are construction areas built for them that is located in a spot where our character can never explore. Off screen plot stuff tend to be the easiest method to explain things that we are never allowed to see.

Edited June 18 by EdwinLi.1284

[draxynnic.3719]

11 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

It's mentioned that the reason the Airships work was a combined effort of Asura, Human, and Charr engineers working together which would have the originals be Pact, but then everybody else started getting them. EoD did give us variant airship classes on the smaller side though which I'd say probably existed for a while in general but weren't used by the Pact because lack of weapons.

Design was a combined effort, yes, but the same is said of the Pact submersibles even though the Iron Barracuda exists. The original airship configuration looks vary charr externally, and as I commented, getting charr industrial capacity to sign on was one of the Pact goals before the full invasion of Orr.

I suspect, although I don't have any hard evidence beyond the circumstantial, is that with the Vigil, Priory, and Whispers not exactly having large factories available, the airships were designed by the collaboration of Pact engineers described, but most of the production was done by the charr. However, it's entirely likely that this involved a lot of prefabrication and some of the parts were made elsewhere. Lion's Arch is a strong possibility for the main hulls, for instance, both because they have experience with shipbuilding, appear to have their own airship production now, and because large pieces like that probably need to be constructed pretty close to where they're built. There might also be some pieces that are made in Kryta, and any asura tech in the design is probably made by Pact asura directly since non-Inquest asura don't really do mass production very well anyway.

[Kalavier.1097]

1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Design was a combined effort, yes, but the same is said of the Pact submersibles even though the Iron Barracuda exists. The original airship configuration looks vary charr externally, and as I commented, getting charr industrial capacity to sign on was one of the Pact goals before the full invasion of Orr.

I suspect, although I don't have any hard evidence beyond the circumstantial, is that with the Vigil, Priory, and Whispers not exactly having large factories available, the airships were designed by the collaboration of Pact engineers described, but most of the production was done by the charr. However, it's entirely likely that this involved a lot of prefabrication and some of the parts were made elsewhere. Lion's Arch is a strong possibility for the main hulls, for instance, both because they have experience with shipbuilding, appear to have their own airship production now, and because large pieces like that probably need to be constructed pretty close to where they're built. There might also be some pieces that are made in Kryta, and any asura tech in the design is probably made by Pact asura directly since non-Inquest asura don't really do mass production very well anyway.

My personal understanding of it was that the Charr had been working on it (Like the submarines and the helicopters of the two different models we've seen ingame used in diffierent areas) but hadn't been able to make the airship properly work under the humans and Asura stepped in and added their knowledge.

[EdwinLi.1284]

11 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

My personal understanding of it was that the Charr had been working on it (Like the submarines and the helicopters of the two different models we've seen ingame used in diffierent areas) but hadn't been able to make the airship properly work under the humans and Asura stepped in and added their knowledge.

I am kind of surprised all these years that Anet has not atleast releasedone map that allow us to explore a spot where they have Airship being constructed.

Construction area that is focus on Airship production for each country (military and civilian use) and our allies is obviously somewhere but we never get to go there. 

Edited June 18 by EdwinLi.1284

[draxynnic.3719]

16 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

My personal understanding of it was that the Charr had been working on it (Like the submarines and the helicopters of the two different models we've seen ingame used in diffierent areas) but hadn't been able to make the airship properly work under the humans and Asura stepped in and added their knowledge.

I don't recall there being any experiments with lighter-than-air flight in charr territory, though. Closest thing are the balloons used to travel for Queen's Jubilee and Four Winds, and that was done after the fact. It's possible that the basic idea for airships came from humans and the main charr input was in mechanical parts.

[Kalavier.1097]

15 hours ago, EdwinLi.1284 said:

I am kind of surprised all these years that Anet has not atleast releasedone map that allow us to explore a spot where they have Airship being constructed.

Construction area that is focus on Airship production for each country (military and civilian use) and our allies is obviously somewhere but we never get to go there. 

Because Core areas don't often get changed, and there is some compression of the world. example being how LA, Kryta, and the Pact all have navies but we don't see it at all really.

10 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I don't recall there being any experiments with lighter-than-air flight in charr territory, though. Closest thing are the balloons used to travel for Queen's Jubilee and Four Winds, and that was done after the fact. It's possible that the basic idea for airships came from humans and the main charr input was in mechanical parts.

There is one event which is a Charr trying to get a helicopter flying, but that particular attempt fails.

[Morvran.8265]

GW2 writers don't care about worldbuilding or details like that. Things just spawn in when the writers want them.

Another great question is where do people learn magic? Apparently they just know it.

[Kalavier.1097]

1 hour ago, Morvran.8265 said:

GW2 writers don't care about worldbuilding or details like that. Things just spawn in when the writers want them.

Another great question is where do people learn magic? Apparently they just know it.

the writers do care about details like that, hence why the Pact often spent long periods of time rebuilding and recruiting to replenish their lost ranks before heading out in campaign.

[XCLASSGAMING.9830]

im pretty sure a mesmer school is mentioned at somepoint

[draxynnic.3719]

On 6/19/2024 at 8:36 PM, Kalavier.1097 said:

Because Core areas don't often get changed, and there is some compression of the world. example being how LA, Kryta, and the Pact all have navies but we don't see it at all really.

Heck, based on what we see, Kryta shouldn't even have a port on the Sea of Sorrows to operate a navy from any more.

On 6/19/2024 at 8:36 PM, Kalavier.1097 said:

There is one event which is a Charr trying to get a helicopter flying, but that particular attempt fails.

Hence why I specified lighter-than-air flight.

3 hours ago, Morvran.8265 said:

GW2 writers don't care about worldbuilding or details like that. Things just spawn in when the writers want them.

Another great question is where do people learn magic? Apparently they just know it.

GW1 lore established that Kryta had magic academies. They likely still exist, albeit in a new location, even if we don't see them. Possibly in the parts of Divinity's Reach we can't explore.

[Kalavier.1097]

3 hours ago, XCLASSGAMING.9830 said:

im pretty sure a mesmer school is mentioned at somepoint

There is also the Queensdale Academy.  While we don't personally see it, it is referenced.

50 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Heck, based on what we see, Kryta shouldn't even have a port on the Sea of Sorrows to operate a navy from any more.

Hence why I specified lighter-than-air flight.

GW1 lore established that Kryta had magic academies. They likely still exist, albeit in a new location, even if we don't see them. Possibly in the parts of Divinity's Reach we can't explore.

We also have no idea where Port Stalwart was, if it got rebuilt or not. But Kryta operates both a navy and Airships/balloons. + We know the Charr at one point had a port on the Sea of Sorrows and the Norn, Charr, and Asura visited Port Stalwart in their vessels (Indicating a Minor Norn presence on the sea, reinforced with that Norn crew that died when Orr rose and became ghosts). Assuming some reclamation of places as time moves on, Port Noble (Turned Tabitha's pirate haven) and the ruins of the old fort on the cost could be returned to use. 

Yeah I tend to just go with the theory that Charr were naturally trying several options, and just were able to finalize them with human and Asura aide.

[draxynnic.3719]

1 minute ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

There is also the Queensdale Academy.  While we don't personally see it, it is referenced.

We also have no idea where Port Stalwart was, if it got rebuilt or not. But Kryta operates both a navy and Airships/balloons. + We know the Charr at one point had a port on the Sea of Sorrows and the Norn, Charr, and Asura visited Port Stalwart in their vessels (Indicating a Minor Norn presence on the sea, reinforced with that Norn crew that died when Orr rose and became ghosts). Assuming some reclamation of places as time moves on, Port Noble (Turned Tabitha's pirate haven) and the ruins of the old fort on the cost could be returned to use. 

Yeah I tend to just go with the theory that Charr were naturally trying several options, and just were able to finalize them with human and Asura aide.

From memory, Sea of Sorrows pretty strongly implied that Port Stalwart was somewhere in the general vicinity of where Caledon Forest is now. We don't see any signs of the ruins, but that's nothing new - Riverside Province had what was probably Kryta's second-largest city in GW1 and there's little indication that there was a large city there now.

I think it's actually an important point that the charr were specifically experimenting with heavier-than-air flight - it gives a very strong possibility that lighter-than-air flight was somebody else's idea. And given that Krytans use balloons for smaller-volume transportation, this makes it entirely likely that it was a Krytan idea. The Charr might be the top engineers in many respects, but that doesn't mean they had the initial idea for everything.

[Kalavier.1097]

24 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I think it's actually an important point that the charr were specifically experimenting with heavier-than-air flight - it gives a very strong possibility that lighter-than-air flight was somebody else's idea. And given that Krytans use balloons for smaller-volume transportation, this makes it entirely likely that it was a Krytan idea. The Charr might be the top engineers in many respects, but that doesn't mean they had the initial idea for everything.

Not saying they had the initial idea for everything. The Airships were clearly stated to be a collaborative effort that only worked because of the joint skills of the races and would've failed if only one group tried it.  Even if the first draft was "what if we fought the dragons in the air instead of on the ground?"

[draxynnic.3719]

1 hour ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Not saying they had the initial idea for everything. The Airships were clearly stated to be a collaborative effort that only worked because of the joint skills of the races and would've failed if only one group tried it.  Even if the first draft was "what if we fought the dragons in the air instead of on the ground?"

Well, we do see the ultimate result of the charr efforts in the helicopters. Point being that the idea of airships specifically might be more likely to have come from humans, since we don't really see any indication of their use in the charr territories.

The charr would have provided the guns, most of the mechanical parts, and probably designed most of the hull apart from the envelope.

(Let's not think about how most of the envelope is open internally, so either most of the lift is coming from lifting cells in the outer layer, or it has to be really warm in there...)

[Kalavier.1097]

6 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Well, we do see the ultimate result of the charr efforts in the helicopters. Point being that the idea of airships specifically might be more likely to have come from humans, since we don't really see any indication of their use in the charr territories.

The charr would have provided the guns, most of the mechanical parts, and probably designed most of the hull apart from the envelope.

(Let's not think about how most of the envelope is open internally, so either most of the lift is coming from lifting cells in the outer layer, or it has to be really warm in there...)

Human: We got balloons.
charr: How about attaching a boat to the balloon. Cannons.
Asura: And how exactly will this move forward?

😄

[draxynnic.3719]

9 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Human: We got balloons.
charr: How about attaching a boat to the balloon. Cannons.
Asura: And how exactly will this move forward?

😄

I think the charr would have motive force handled - they've had underwater propellors for a while, and it's not hard to apply the same principle in the air as long as you're not relying on it to provide lift. If I had to guess, I'd probably say that the asura were responsible for avionics (from memory, the pilot station looks similar to an asura terminal), and possibly some magitech that supplements buoyancy.

Edited June 21 by draxynnic.3719