Why can't Catalyst generate energy outside of combat?

[kapenike.6793]

This is mostly an issue in fractals. I try not to bring a qCata into pugs because it just has so many problems. If we wipe and have to reset, no quickness pre boon ... And even if you get mistlock youre still locked out of your jade sphere for some reason. If the fight ends unexpectedly and I didn't conserve energy ... Well that next fight a mile down the road is gonna start very slow.

Invuln breather stage for everyone to relax at? Nope. Catch your qcata running around trying to find some 0 damage to do for that good good energy

Love the class since Soto let us use good weapons, but man it's just not there with the final touches. It feels like anet gave up on it after the 7th patch.

And we need a better energy UI PLEASE

Bonus: managing pistol bullets as a buff bar icon is absurd

[zeyeti.8347]

It needs to get rid off energy ! other class have no struggles like that , herald give quickness almost afk (and don't compare energy management from rev to catalyst plz , we all know one has a good design and the other is an absolute clusterf***) and other just press some buttons to give boons. 

catalyst has to :

1:managed energy.

2:managed cooldown of spheres

3: managed this cluncky non energy load for 5 secs after each sphere launch

4:keep multihit skills to launch when the 5 secs non energy loader is off to quickly fill this tiny bar up to be allowed to launch as many sphere as possible.

5:Look at stacks of EE because it gives you more BD

6:Take an eye exam to guess how many energy you have , is it 19 ot is it 20 ? who knows... 

And if you play pistol , howdy doo add another lair of complexity ... and for what , better boon uptime ? better dps ? better utilitys ? hell no , nothing of that , a complete mess of an e-spec designed with 2 foots instead 2 hands.

 

[Mevelios.4809]

TBH pre-boons in fractals is just a habit that came to be but isn't a need, targets in strikes/raids are tougher and we manage those encounters without pre-boons. Mesmers have a similar issue, requiring clones for mirages to provide alacrity (yes, one could provide a little before the fight but then they're out of endurance to ramp up alac duration) & chronos are helpless for quick/alac. I tend to find that pre-boon habit a mere waste of time since you can provide pretty much everything at the start of the fight, besides the stacking of might (even then it's arguable for some who can ramp it up in a matter of three seconds).

Taking mistlock on its own does lock you, but if you bother using the trait Energized elements it somehow unlocks it while out of combat (despite being unable to produce energy, as the trait reads). Go figure why does it work...! Anyway, being unable to produce any energy out of combat is likely taken from the adrenaline system the catalyst energy imitates - it's unrelated to the revenant, only part of the name is shared but the mechanic is clearly an imitation of the warrior's.

It takes some effort to play the e-spec, however indeed the UI could welcome some work to be able to tell whether we're capable to release one, two or three spheres - there should also be markers when standing at 18 & 26 energy for those playing the aforementioned trait (Energized elements). Many impractical facts and limitations were also mentioned in a similar topic.

The pistol's a different topic IMO, I like how it's been made (although I'd think it's a poor match in PvP since a knowledgeable opponent would be able to tell which effects you have in store): the elemental bullets are colourful enough in your buff bar to notice them, and there are also visuals around your character that allow you to take your eyes off your skill bar to notice what's actually going on in the fight. It takes some getting used to but it's not the poorest choice at generating energy (it's no staff, eh?) while its skills aren't that difficult to remember, since the effects are very binary (either 2>3 either 3>2 depending attunement, one having offensive purposes, the other defensive effects)!

Edited June 10 by Mevelios.4809

[kapenike.6793]

5 hours ago, Mevelios.4809 said:

TBH pre-boons in fractals is just a habit that came to be but isn't a need, targets in strikes/raids are tougher and we manage those encounters without pre-boons. Mesmers have a similar issue, requiring clones for mirages to provide alacrity (yes, one could provide a little before the fight but then they're out of endurance to ramp up alac duration) & chronos are helpless for quick/alac. I tend to find that pre-boon habit a mere waste of time since you can provide pretty much everything at the start of the fight, besides the stacking of might (even then it's arguable for some who can ramp it up in a matter of three seconds).

Taking mistlock on its own does lock you, but if you bother using the trait Energized elements it somehow unlocks it while out of combat (despite being unable to produce energy, as the trait reads). Go figure why does it work...! Anyway, being unable to produce any energy out of combat is likely taken from the adrenaline system the catalyst energy imitates - it's unrelated to the revenant, only part of the name is shared but the mechanic is clearly an imitation of the warrior's.

It takes some effort to play the e-spec, however indeed the UI could welcome some work to be able to tell whether we're capable to release one, two or three spheres - there should also be markers when standing at 18 & 26 energy for those playing the aforementioned trait (Energized elements). Many impractical facts and limitations were also mentioned in a similar topic.

The pistol's a different topic IMO, I like how it's been made (although I'd think it's a poor match in PvP since a knowledgeable opponent would be able to tell which effects you have in store): the elemental bullets are colourful enough in your buff bar to notice them, and there are also visuals around your character that allow you to take your eyes off your skill bar to notice what's actually going on in the fight. It takes some getting used to but it's not the poorest choice at generating energy (it's no staff, eh?) while its skills aren't that difficult to remember, since the effects are very binary (either 2>3 either 3>2 depending attunement, one having offensive purposes, the other defensive effects)!

Pre boon isnt required, youre right. But after so long of fractals most get in the groove of minmaxing the boss with absolute precision .... qCatalyst can't compete at the same level being left out of the start. Probably too niche, but still a nicety they could fix. Also it would be nice if in wvw or pvp a new encounter wouldn't start with your tail between your legs. 

I won't pretend otherwise, adding the ele bullets as a boon in the UI was the absolute bare minimum and easiest option. I'm sure a fix will come soon because I constantly have my buff bar overflowing the minimap. I know the ele bullets show at my char but visually it's easier to check the ui....well it should be. And I haven't tried pistol in pvp yet, it sounds good in theory but years of sword dagger makes all ele classes a melee spec imo xD as if a mag aura enjoyer would really trust a bullet...

[Jzaku.9765]

Why can't Warrior generate Adrenaline outside combat?

[kapenike.6793]

@Mevelios.4809 i wonder if energy resets after a gg in fractals while [Energized Elements] is active ... Another force dps loss by duct tape. I'll test, this may solve most of my complaints

[kapenike.6793]

@Jzaku.9765 I dunno, make your case

[Mevelios.4809]

14 minutes ago, kapenike.6793 said:

@Mevelios.4809 i wonder if energy resets after a gg in fractals while [Energized Elements] is active ... Another force dps loss by duct tape. I'll test, this may solve most of my complaints

It does reset, likely not the way you would like it to; you start from zero!

14 minutes ago, kapenike.6793 said:

@Jzaku.9765 I dunno, make your case

@Jzaku.9765 likely implies what I was saying about how cata energy mimics warrior adrenaline. The only difference being that warrior can generate some quickly through Berserker stance; yes it's no damage dealing option, my point is that the option exists whereas for cata it doesn't, but I've made a much more expansive post about that on the other topic I linked above. Considering what use catalysts have for their utilities, I'm pretty sure a thing or two could be looked at for the purpose of providing a quick burst of energy; at least I don't think utilities provide much to the core issue, there are several tools to provide extra damage but we're talking about producing energy when there are no targets.

45 minutes ago, kapenike.6793 said:

I know the ele bullets show at my char but visually it's easier to check the ui....well it should be.

That's something I got used to in strikes/raids (looking at my character to tell whether some bullets are active if I missed their use order at some point); I can easily imagine though it's hard to tell sometimes with all the visual clutter you can have on screen - already happens in the content I play sometimes. ☹️

[kapenike.6793]

@Mevelios.4809 I guess it's still just a pvp class then 😓 someone will have a brilliant idea soon that fixes the class entirely. And yeah visual clutter the enemy, it's crazy we cant just get like 4 circles that light up per bullet or per something else on an unspoken ele weapon

[Mevelios.4809]

2 minutes ago, kapenike.6793 said:

And yeah visual clutter the enemy, it's crazy we cant just get like 4 circles that light up per bullet or per something else on an unspoken ele weapon

See, that could exactly be the thing (if technically possible): when an elemental bullet is active and you're attuned to the related element, your skill bar could light up in the associated color (red fire, blue water, etc) or at least the two pistol skills able to consume it. There are still considerations about the energy level to think of as well which we approached in this very topic, so might as well make our imagination work to make suggestions!

[crosknight.3041]

because the catalyst is pretty much the equivalent to "doing your month long project the night before it was due" kind of deal. atleast that's how it feels design wise.

as for the theory that it's the equivalent to warrior adrenaline. like warrior, catalyst energy is generated most efficiently by hitting targets, the faster you hit them the more energy is produced (for cata it incentivizes using the hammer orbs to help generate energy, which is why most other weapons feel MEH on cata). However catalyst energy isn't lost at the end of combat, and warriors have significantly more ways to quickly gain it through traits, utilities, and even weapon swapping. warrior with some of their utilities can even generate it out of combat, as worthless as it is as you begin losing it almost immediately lol. catalyst only has the attunement swapping trait as an alternative to gaining energy, and that is only while in combat.

personally would love to see anet either get rid of cata energy and make orbs an ammo skill, or bolster the methods of gaining energy, such as putting energy gain on some of the stances augments, and other methods of energy generation such as healing people like druids can.

[rotten.9753]

11 hours ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

Why can't Warrior generate Adrenaline outside combat?

Catalyst's energy is more like Druid's astral force rather than adrenaline because it doesn't go to 0 outside combat. There are also no skills that can quickly generate it like in the case of adrenaline. Both Catalyst's and Druid's mechanics were added as part of elite specialization rather than being a core mechanic.

And most importantly, astral force is generated outside combat.

[Suyheuti.1732]

On 6/11/2024 at 6:43 AM, crosknight.3041 said:

because the catalyst is pretty much the equivalent to "doing your month long project the night before it was due" kind of deal. atleast that's how it feels design wise.

as for the theory that it's the equivalent to warrior adrenaline. like warrior, catalyst energy is generated most efficiently by hitting targets, the faster you hit them the more energy is produced (for cata it incentivizes using the hammer orbs to help generate energy, which is why most other weapons feel MEH on cata). However catalyst energy isn't lost at the end of combat, and warriors have significantly more ways to quickly gain it through traits, utilities, and even weapon swapping. warrior with some of their utilities can even generate it out of combat, as worthless as it is as you begin losing it almost immediately lol. catalyst only has the attunement swapping trait as an alternative to gaining energy, and that is only while in combat.

personally would love to see anet either get rid of cata energy and make orbs an ammo skill, or bolster the methods of gaining energy, such as putting energy gain on some of the stances augments, and other methods of energy generation such as healing people like druids can.

Now catalyst energy issue such a big problem which makes me miserable all the time. I’m so miserable, so I am willing to accept they allow to gain energy after deploying spheres. That won’t solve the main issue but at least, that will give us to breathe. 

[Jski.6180]

You would think doing combos would at leads generate energy outside of combat (or in combat.)