How weaver has become a problem and why its matter

[Rittsu.5698]

The spear is actually fantastic, but we need to talk about the Weaver problem. Since the Hammer, what is forgivable once that was an exclusive weapon before, weaver lost his most incredible concept. The last 3 weapons, including spear, does not mix the elements in the 3 skill. Yes, the amount of utility from spear "mix skills" make the class more reliable but it should'nt came at cost of the fantasy of the spec. I know that Ele is a burden since of his 300 skills, but is trully sadly remember of how elite-specs used to be a f* incredible concept and see how one of the best of that has turned into a just upgraded core elementalist instead a Weaver.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Hammer is a bit lazy, there's no value to double attune/unravel. I don't find it sad, but lazy, but actually it's may be the best experience on hammer (Low CD on attunement, easy weakness spam, easy 100% precision...)

About Pistol, man you're wrong ?! ... It's weaver concept x10000, 6 new skills, with 6*2 new effects for bullets, rather than core effects. They didn't forget weaver concept, they just forgot we're human being with 10IQ while gaming,  2 eyes and 10 fingers; how are we supposed to read the UI, remember every skills and effects, anticipate enemies ... ? Even on Golem Benchmark they fail on half shots.

About landspear, I like the unravel/fresh air mechanic, it's appealing for people having issue with weaver, who don't like unravel/weavesel, arcane ...
But it's true the skills on themself feel like fillers without any consideration. No damage, no movement, just random same and poor utilities as always, 15-18sec CD (not affected by traitlane) no buff/enhancing effect for following core#3 or any explication on how it will work with #5. For example a bit sad the Air/Earth storm has no damage or blindness/weakness, or no dodge on water/air.
Maybe I wasn't paying attention but landspear has no mobility skill outside  Air #3  superspeed, it's problematic with weaver.

[rwknoll.7824]

I just watched the livestream recording and I think people may be underestimating the possible combos and strategies that the dual attacks allow by immediately refreshing your cooldown for the primary element attunement. This could allow you to rapidly use your other skills and pull off some really versatile choices, which I think is actually really solid. 

[Rittsu.5698]

46 minutes ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

Hammer is a bit lazy, there's no value to double attune/unravel. I don't find it sad, but lazy, but actually it's may be the best experience on hammer (Low CD on attunement, easy weakness spam, easy 100% precision...)

About Pistol, man you're wrong ?! ... It's weaver concept x10000, 6 new skills, with 6*2 new effects for bullets, rather than core effects. They didn't forget weaver concept, they just forgot we're human being with 10IQ while gaming,  2 eyes and 10 fingers; how are we supposed to read the UI, remember every skills and effects, anticipate enemies ... ? Even on Golem Benchmark they fail on half shots.

About landspear, I like the unravel/fresh air mechanic, it's appealing for people having issue with weaver, who don't like unravel/weavesel, arcane ...
But it's true the skills on themself feel like fillers without any consideration. No damage, no movement, just random same and poor utilities as always, 15-18sec CD (not affected by traitlane) no buff/enhancing effect for following core#3 or any explication on how it will work with #5. For example a bit sad the Air/Earth storm has no damage or blindness/weakness, or no dodge on water/air.
Maybe I wasn't paying attention but landspear has no mobility skill outside  Air #3  superspeed, it's problematic with weaver.

Yep, i just can play hammer with Weaver, the rest the weapon feels tough. Sorry if i was wrong with the pistol, im kinda that dont see nothing happens in the pistol skills, except for the iced version of fire warhorn skill. I remember look to the earth air staff mixed skill and tough "Wow thats very fun, its a pitty that is not the 1 skill" and now im kinda "Please bring me back the fun mixed element skill with 30s of cd that once bothered me"

[Rittsu.5698]

13 minutes ago, rwknoll.7824 said:

I just watched the livestream recording and I think people may be underestimating the possible combos and strategies that the dual attacks allow by immediately refreshing your cooldown for the primary element attunement. This could allow you to rapidly use your other skills and pull off some really versatile choices, which I think is actually really solid. 

Its trully solid, and brings a lot of possibilities but Weaver looks like Just a less engessed core elementalist, where is the magic of mix the elements, at least earth air had some cool effects. If only they can made something like: youre in Water/Air, uses the Air 5, use mix skill to reset Water, use Water 5 and the Fields combined releases in the 3 skill something like a Ice Spear trowed with some electric effects It would make sense. I know that Ele is taken all he never had before with Spear, and i dont cant complain, but trully upsets me that Weaver is not weaving more.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

31 minutes ago, rwknoll.7824 said:

I just watched the livestream recording and I think people may be underestimating the possible combos and strategies that the dual attacks allow by immediately refreshing your cooldown for the primary element attunement. This could allow you to rapidly use your other skills and pull off some really versatile choices, which I think is actually really solid. 

It isn't something new either, it's Lesser Unravel but on #3 instead of Slot skills. Which is already interesting as you liberate a slot for an other utility. 
Yet, I'm perplexed about the CD on those skills and globally the random filler effects; I don't think it has the same strenght as Unravel over time nor the good utilities for "range" weaver.

Edited June 23 by Zhaid Zhem.6508

[Chyro.1462]

2 hours ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

Maybe I wasn't paying attention but landspear has no mobility skill outside  Air #3  superspeed, it's problematic with weaver.

There is a dash/evade on water 3 for mobility in addition to the superspeed on air 3. And one of the dual skills with air also gives superspeed, so weaver has a bit more of that than the others.

[draxynnic.3719]

2 hours ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

Hammer is a bit lazy, there's no value to double attune/unravel. I don't find it sad, but lazy, but actually it's may be the best experience on hammer (Low CD on attunement, easy weakness spam, easy 100% precision...)

I think hammer can be excused on the basis that it wasn't intended to be used with weaver when it was designed, and as boring as "you generate two orbs at once if you don't have either of them", it can make it a bit faster to get the orbs you really care about (usually fire and air) out quickly, and the weapon would probably be incredibly awkward if the dual skills didn't produce orbs.

2 hours ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

About Pistol, man you're wrong ?! ... It's weaver concept x10000, 6 new skills, with 6*2 new effects for bullets, rather than core effects. They didn't forget weaver concept, they just forgot we're human being with 10IQ while gaming,  2 eyes and 10 fingers; how are we supposed to read the UI, remember every skills and effects, anticipate enemies ... ? Even on Golem Benchmark they fail on half shots.

Yeah, technically speaking weaver does have special dual skills with pistol... the problem is that most of pistol is designed around using skill 3 in order to generate bullets and then skill 2 in order to convert the bullet into damage, and then weaver turns this into a whole new even-more-complex-to-operate thing that nobody wants to deal with and doesn't seem to offer any practical benefits over less painful weapons even if you did put the effort in.

2 hours ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

About landspear, I like the unravel/fresh air mechanic, it's appealing for people having issue with weaver, who don't like unravel/weavesel, arcane ...
But it's true the skills on themself feel like fillers without any consideration. No damage, no movement, just random same and poor utilities as always, 15-18sec CD (not affected by traitlane) no buff/enhancing effect for following core#3 or any explication on how it will work with #5. For example a bit sad the Air/Earth storm has no damage or blindness/weakness, or no dodge on water/air.
Maybe I wasn't paying attention but landspear has no mobility skill outside  Air #3  superspeed, it's problematic with weaver.

The big concern, I think, is that the dual skills lacking an offensive component means they cannot trigger a key weaver damage trait. Mind you, if they compensate for this in the weapon's characteristics themselves, an alternative trait might give a bit of extra superspeed.

PS It IS a bit disappointing, though, that I was looking forward to crazy mixed-element spear skills and... well, I guess the air/earth projectile block field counts, but otherwise...

Edited June 23 by draxynnic.3719

[Jski.6180]

Hammer needs to be 900 ranges or pure melee with a lot more def and mobility the in-between realty did not work out too well. Spear will comply replace it and weaver will be a lot better for it. 

For all of its flaws pistol is at least 900 range making it an more usable wepon.

That being said weaver needs to have self quickness and alacrity as it dose not have such effects that say an tempest or cata has. Most other classes have some type of quickness or alacrity on there core kit but not the ele class but say for conja hammer and well that not very viable.

Weaver stances need to buff the weaver wepon skill and not just have an effect at melee on the weaver. Even if its just the melee effect at where your skill are going off. So your "next attk for x sec also apply the effect of the stances."

[ippy.9048]

I mean no offense, but if you feel that the pistol is weak, it might just be that you need a bit more practice. It's definitely not weak. Are you perhaps using Fire #2 on enemies that you haven't immobilized? Just like randomly typing on a keyboard won't produce a beautiful melody, that's how the Elementalist profession works.

It might be slightly weaker than a fully optimized Hammer Catalyst.

At the same time, feeling disappointed just because Spear #3's effect isn't unique seems a bit greedy to me.

This #3 is extremely powerful, and to be honest, it's so overpowered that I think it can't avoid a nerf.

[draxynnic.3719]

5 minutes ago, ippy.9048 said:

I mean no offense, but if you feel that the pistol is weak, it might just be that you need a bit more practice. It's definitely not weak. Are you perhaps using Fire #2 on enemies that you haven't immobilized? Just like randomly typing on a keyboard won't produce a beautiful melody, that's how the Elementalist profession works.

It might be slightly weaker than a fully optimized Hammer Catalyst.

It benches well against a golem. But that's basically all it has. In most competitive and open world situations, it's better to use sceptre for its greater AoE and/or lack of projectiles on two attunements. In bossfights, it's a complex and easily disrupted rotation that provides zero utility to your group. We know it provides high DPS - ArenaNet made sure it did to make sure it didn't get completely abandoned - but the general consensus is that when you've layered complexity on more complexity on an elite specialisation that's adding complexity for a profession that's already known for its complexity, it's just not worth it to get a little more damage on a single target (but usually less damage when fighting groups).

[Arheundel.6451]

1 hour ago, ippy.9048 said:

I mean no offense, but if you feel that the pistol is weak, it might just be that you need a bit more practice. It's definitely not weak. Are you perhaps using Fire #2 on enemies that you haven't immobilized? Just like randomly typing on a keyboard won't produce a beautiful melody, that's how the Elementalist profession works.

It might be slightly weaker than a fully optimized Hammer Catalyst.

At the same time, feeling disappointed just because Spear #3's effect isn't unique seems a bit greedy to me.

This #3 is extremely powerful, and to be honest, it's so overpowered that I think it can't avoid a nerf.

It may be good in PvE vs stationary targets but in PvP/wvw vs other ranged specs, the pistol suffers greatly for its inability to maintain pressure on moving targets, you literally require a hard CC to land your most damaging skills, a single 1s+ immobilize on a slow-moving boulder does not cut it. Scepter does a much better job at this and it doesn't suffer from the ever present projectile denial. Unless you consistently land fire 3...that's it for you in competitive modes. Truly the only reason why there is no more talk about pistol, it's because it does well on a golem and that's it really....they need to speed up the projectiles and add more burst to apply pressure

[Santo.2419]

On 6/24/2024 at 2:45 AM, draxynnic.3719 said:

The big concern, I think, is that the dual skills lacking an offensive component means they cannot trigger a key weaver damage trait. Mind you, if they compensate for this in the weapon's characteristics themselves, an alternative trait might give a bit of extra superspeed.

PS It IS a bit disappointing, though, that I was looking forward to crazy mixed-element spear skills and... well, I guess the air/earth projectile block field counts, but otherwise...

Yeah, me too. I would have liked offensive components to the #3 skill of weaver for burst rotations more (but I hold hope that there will be work arounds). The projectile block looks very good, but will no doubt get nerfed to nothing after the beta haha (at least in wvw, I reckon). I'm not sure if the recast on skills was different on the stream than will be for live, but if it's the same then the skill is gonna be nerfed hard imo (competitive at least).

Overall though, I'm very excited for the spear. The runic circle looks dope and loving the effect. Feels like a lot of possibilities.

[draxynnic.3719]

17 hours ago, Santo.2419 said:

Yeah, me too. I would have liked offensive components to the #3 skill of weaver for burst rotations more (but I hold hope that there will be work arounds). The projectile block looks very good, but will no doubt get nerfed to nothing after the beta haha (at least in wvw, I reckon). I'm not sure if the recast on skills was different on the stream than will be for live, but if it's the same then the skill is gonna be nerfed hard imo (competitive at least).

Overall though, I'm very excited for the spear. The runic circle looks dope and loving the effect. Feels like a lot of possibilities.

I'm not sure the projectile block will be nerfed. Having a spear means you don't have the projectile block on focus, and the weaver spear projectile block is less accessible, shorter duration, and has a stronger visual tell.

[Chester.4516]

Weapon Beta is coming up. Try out the spear and then give your feedback on it here.

Anet have a good history of taking the feedback they get form these betas and incorporating it into meaningful changes for the class - even if it doesn't come in time for the release, see them adding more spell effects for Pistol, adding piece to Pistol Earth 1 etc for other classes too.