vindicator is ridiculous

[EnderzShadow.2506]

19 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

I figured out what it is. Any specs that have a high skill floor/punishing, yet hit meta, 

Nope, stop. You think vindi dodge takes skill? laughable.

 

[Flowki.7194]

2 hours ago, Mhina.1827 said:

I think this part of your take will never be acknowledged as much as it needs to.    I think right now I feel completely discouraged over the state of PvP, which sucks because gw2 is kinda like my "last hurrah" with competitive games at the moment. But having such a beautiful combat system be diluted with an overreliance on blocks, stealth, invulnerabilities, compounding passive stat bonuses, etc just kinda feels bad. And a lot of times these "secret sauce" builds that people cook up are simply builds that can rotate through the unhealthiest mechanics the best. But because people haven't discovered the "secret" yet, it's considered skill. I just think right now there's so many unfun things to fight, WIN or LOSE. I'd just like to have fun again. Might have to go back to WvW roaming. 

The problem is, the cope denial runs strong, wide and deep, your post is just be a blur, a pixelation 😜. Im done with expecting encounters that feel 80% skilled, rather than 80% spec based, so its a case of bait my line, and see how many of the trump card players bite, the skill is in picking the right card after all.

35 minutes ago, EnderzShadow.2506 said:

Nope, stop. You think vindi dodge takes skill? laughable.

 

Oh look, a strawman trying to speak with authority 😆 

[vilesoldier.9826]

2 hours ago, Mhina.1827 said:

I think this part of your take will never be acknowledged as much as it needs to.    I think right now I feel completely discouraged over the state of PvP, which sucks because gw2 is kinda like my "last hurrah" with competitive games at the moment. But having such a beautiful combat system be diluted with an overreliance on blocks, stealth, invulnerabilities, compounding passive stat bonuses, etc just kinda feels bad. And a lot of times these "secret sauce" builds that people cook up are simply builds that can rotate through the unhealthiest mechanics the best. But because people haven't discovered the "secret" yet, it's considered skill. I just think right now there's so many unfun things to fight, WIN or LOSE. I'd just like to have fun again. Might have to go back to WvW roaming. 

 

Yeah taking GW2 so seriously, esp when the devs don't expect you to, isn't healthy. I think Flowki's niche of "self-proclaimed mechanically weak players who want to stand a fighting chance without needing to be a gamer god" is a valid population and something Anet could address more (this game is not easy), it's just he'll make like two level-headed points then surround them with 5 paragraphs ranting about how every class with less buttons than ele/holo/vind etc is carried in some way.

 

Most people understand there are degenerate mechanics surrounding the metagame, and that it's mostly a subjective matter as to which ones you think are more degenerate. Flowki would just have you believe that any class that can be more effective than ele with less buttons is objectively "coping".

2 valid points out of 10 is a failing grade :(

[Endo.1652]

On 7/14/2024 at 6:52 AM, arazoth.7290 said:

hammer vindi meta just carried by duo queus, make it solo queues and they won't carry/dominate along with other builds that can be stacked for that.

I want to see any play solo only and get top 25 with it 😂 (no wintrading obv). That would become now a real challenge, 100% sure they won't be in top 10.

 

Bro isnt that lost meta specs???? 

[arazoth.7290]

13 minutes ago, Endo.1652 said:

Bro isnt that lost meta specs???? 

??? Sorry, I don't understand what you're trying to say 😅

[Endo.1652]

4 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

??? Sorry, I don't understand what you're trying to say 😅

Youre saying hammer vindi is only carried by duo queues. Any meta out at the moment you can apply that argument for. C reaper, spellbreaker, thief, ranger and vindi... It doesnt just cancel out when something is strong in ranked.

[arazoth.7290]

3 minutes ago, Endo.1652 said:

Youre saying hammer vindi is only carried by duo queues. Any meta out at the moment you can apply that argument for. C reaper, spellbreaker, thief, ranger and vindi... It doesnt just cancel out when something is strong in ranked.

That's why I said right after it, along with others that can be stacked, not only implying vindi

[Flowki.7194]

3 hours ago, Endo.1652 said:

Youre saying hammer vindi is only carried by duo queues. Any meta out at the moment you can apply that argument for. C reaper, spellbreaker, thief, ranger and vindi... It doesnt just cancel out when something is strong in ranked.

 

People still think it is "primary the necro" meta, and let the vindi free cast all game, then act all shocked when they take massive damage. Vindi gets less and less effective around people who treat it like scrapper/de in groups, swat it away, but kill it if it gets greedy. The real problem is the average game (even the ones full of plats+golds) is not that coordinated. I know for an absolute fact playing as vindi, and against it, that surrounded by equally skilled opponents, it is one of the easier specs to pressure into retreat from a group/skirmish. I find it hilarious I have to keep pointing this out with all the virts, spbs, reapers, DHs, WBs, mace rangers running around.. who litterally have face tank friendly/stop attack mechanics baked into them, to varying degree.

 

I hit a new record btw. In a single duel, a plat SPB tried to CC me 6 times consecutively while I had stab/aeg. Imagine the nerve of such players then telling me to "just stow FC", being a far more reactive skill than just basic boon checking, especially on teather, hilarious. @arazoth.7290 Would you expect to reach plat on herald while pumping 6 consecutive sunless nukes into invulnd? A player on the games greatest duelist, built around CC, doesn't even bother to check for stab before CC, and is still plat.

 

The casual creep is on 🤘

Edited July 15 by Flowki.7194

[arazoth.7290]

2 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

 

@arazoth.7290 Would you expect to reach plat on herald while pumping 6 consecutive sunless nukes into invulnd? 

Jup if enemy team has some people like me today. Some people in my team when enemy is downed and I target the down one so they should focus but a certain player keeps targeting me, while i put again target on enemy (we all died obv)

[Flowki.7194]

48 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Jup if enemy team has some people like me today. Some people in my team when enemy is downed and I target the down one so they should focus but a certain player keeps targeting me, while i put again target on enemy (we all died obv)

P2+ duos: MMR working as intended

[arazoth.7290]

50 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

P2+ duos: MMR working as intended

that too but this guy in my team was just straight up ruining because of a weird grudge, yesterday he afk'd my report for 3 day ban still not processed in system apparantly. But the moment you say some toxic word to these kind of people they report you and their report gets faster progressed then yours. Because anet preferes to solve verbal abuse faster/supports these toxic people by being really slowww in what should be done. 🤢🤮

[Myror.7521]

@Flowki.7194 playing against vindicator as spell is kinda lel. I think both can win the Match up well Played..... but now for real i think he cced you 6 times in stabi is cause its the only real way to punish a vindicator as a warr...... just cc him xp. And obv the only way to get rid off your stabi stacks is to wait till they are away or remove it with dagger burst. First one gives you free Window to do what ever you want and second well its one big telegraphed Skill especialy on vindi its easy to Dodge xp. 

This been said its kinda lel that the warr didnt try to kite away ..... lol. But also could easily be myself just try to Play aggressive xD

Edited July 15 by Myror.7521

[Flowki.7194]

1 hour ago, arazoth.7290 said:

that too but this guy in my team was just straight up ruining because of a weird grudge, yesterday he afk'd my report for 3 day ban still not processed in system apparantly. But the moment you say some toxic word to these kind of people they report you and their report gets faster progressed then yours. Because anet preferes to solve verbal abuse faster/supports these toxic people by being really slowww in what should be done. 🤢🤮

Sounds like he had a friend of a friend of the guy who cleans Anets toilet, or something.

 

58 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Flowki.7194 playing against vindicator as spell is kinda lel. I think both can win the Match up well Played..... but now for real i think he cced you 6 times in stabi is cause its the only real way to punish a vindicator as a warr...... just cc him xp. And obv the only way to get rid off your stabi stacks is to wait till they are away or remove it with dagger burst. First one gives you free Window to do what ever you want and second well its one big telegraphed Skill especialy on vindi its easy to Dodge xp. 

This been said its kinda lel that the warr didnt try to kite away ..... lol. But also could easily be myself just try to Play aggressive xD

 

Vindi does not have anywhere near that amount of stab, I was on core, I thought I made that obvious many times that it is what I mostly play. He tried to CC me 6 times when I had stab, I dunno what else to say, aside from it showcases how bloated SPB is, given that he was plat. Untamed/druid are much the same in their own way, can eat CC after CC, condi app after condi app, but high daze/cleanse output to the rescue. The only way to punish such bloated specs is with daze/spike power burst, and to me thats not good enough. I have genuinely played all classes/specs to varying amounts, and dueled them all many times on core rev which has formed a good baseline (+watching good players on various specs duel each other). It is enough for example to suggest that gaurd resolotion mechanics are broken, nion perma uptime for 0 effort, and nobody can offer a good reason why, aside from "it isn't vindi so w/e". Same with virt, what an abomination, all agree with this? Yet every time I log in, I see more and more virts. It is a horribly designed spec, maybe even worse than DH.

 

Specifically for vindi, I havent really played the meta build much, I don't see the point. I played it before, and some off meta after buffs, it is difficult to do well with despite the haters, and it is likely to get nerfed into the ground, so what is the point of sinking time into it, same reason I am not sinking time into mace ranger. Im not a fotm player so once hammer gets nerfed im not going to jump onto the next band waggon, so I just settle with core rev, and some off meta rev things that are unlikely to get nerfed.

 

 

Anyway, the REAL game meta is there to see for anybody who takes the time to look at sPVP spec representation, it isn't vindi.

 

Spoiler

Reaper/SPB

 

Edited July 15 by Flowki.7194

[Gotejjeken.1267]

15 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Specifically for vindi, I havent really played the meta build much, I don't see the point. I played it before, and some off meta after buffs, it is difficult to do well with despite the haters, and it is likely to get nerfed into the ground, so what is the point of sinking time into it, same reason I am not sinking time into mace ranger. Im not a fotm player so once hammer gets nerfed im not going to jump onto the next band waggon, so I just settle with core rev, and some off meta rev things that are unlikely to get nerfed.

Mace already got nerfed.  The next FoTM will hopefully be spear.  

I would like to see you duel a mace ranger on a meta vindi build, it should be very close.  I find that if Ranger doesn't outplay by a large margin they lose, especially with all the free obfuscated damage on dodge Vindi can pump in melee.  

Pretty sure that's all anyone here is talking about, not the off-meta core rev hipster builds that are around.  They don't care about these as if you run them, you are an active detriment to your team, no matter how much you enjoy them.  

 

 

[arazoth.7290]

Just now, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Mace already got nerfed.  The next FoTM will hopefully be spear.  

I would like to see you duel a mace ranger on a meta vindi build, it should be very close.  I find that if Ranger doesn't outplay by a large margin they lose, especially with all the free obfuscated damage on dodge Vindi can pump in melee.  

Pretty sure that's all anyone here is talking about, not the off-meta core rev hipster builds that are around.  They don't care about these as if you run them, you are an active detriment to your team, no matter how much you enjoy them.  

 

 

untamed/druid doesn't need maces to be OP.

Best example of one who mains ranger, El Gato (my favorite cat), doesn't even need to use maces to make the top 10 players in eu getting anhilated in 1v1 pretty fast like they are silver 😂. And while same having HP above 50% always and manys times not even below 75%.

So it isn't just maces.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

2 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

untamed/druid doesn't need maces to be OP.

Best example of one who mains ranger, El Gato (my favorite cat), doesn't even need to use maces to make the top 10 players in eu getting anhilated in 1v1 pretty fast like they are silver 😂. And while same having HP above 50% always and manys times not even below 75%.

So it isn't just maces.

I have no idea what an El Gato is outside recording software.

If they are annihilating people on Ranger then they would be doing same on Vindi, is the point.  

[arazoth.7290]

15 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

I have no idea what an El Gato is outside recording software.

If they are annihilating people on Ranger then they would be doing same on Vindi, is the point.  

it's a person*

And no, if this one can defeat the top vindis with almost 100% after each duel and killing them rather fast, then it isn't the enemy player fault

[Myror.7521]

@Flowki.7194 nah sir in one point your straight up wrong the meta is build around all builds that are meta and not just 2 xp. 

For example ranger with Mace Mace/ Hammer is kinda broken rn even after it nerfs. The clue how to counterplay it is that you need CCs in comb with boon remove and gues thats what spellbreaker just got.

Reaper is played mainly cause its in mid fight (as it was ever good in it) u use it to do not only mid dps but also boon rip and make the supp/healer less good.

Vindicator is played cause its okayish in 1v1 (means it can hold it) and can even plus one,  roaming around or doing some mid fights (kinda like you can do everything but there is always something better)

Chrono is played cause it can stay longer alife in a CC/burst Meta than core guard does. But it can also CC plus grant quickness and some other stuff into the mid fight.

Deadeye is played cause its the by far fastest and most safe to play/ roam around Just make peops get angry on u kinda like a fly xD.

 

So in the end the meta is the Meta cause its the best Builds that counter them selfes in some ways or another and bringing the best things in the table. This been said rn the meta is defined by Ranger)spellbreaker on sidenodes and reaper/Chrono in mid Point. Rest of Meta classes are basicly there to roam and be as penetrant as you can to the 4 best classes xp

 

[Dreamonology.8362]

On 7/13/2024 at 8:44 PM, Ixl Super Eu Ixl.3259 said:

Those "copers" probably think players who pick mechanically difficult specializations but always complain about "easier-to-use" stuff are just coping with the inability to play well in general by clinging to such built-in excuses. 

It's their excuse why they are so bad, they pretend they are playing some hard game, and hard class, and whenever they lose their excuse is "you play ez class my classi hard" with that logic your all bad and i'm god because i'm grandmaster in starcraft 2 a 200000x harder game than gw2 lol, some of these people are funny, they wonder why Spvp in gw2 is dead, 50% of is the high school mentality playerbase left in it.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 hour ago, arazoth.7290 said:

it's a person*

And no, if this one can defeat the top vindis with almost 100% after each duel and killing them rather fast, then it isn't the enemy player fault

Almost 100% and 'rather fast' mean it's a balanced matchup then, the only other factor being skill, and they obviously are outskilling who they are fighting.

Vindi is not like say thief to me...a good Ranger should be able to win against thief nearly 100% of time, even DE, as can simply just kite it and attack when they unstealth.  This is the case even if the thief outskills the ranger, as ranger is almost a natural counter, even more now with upcoming stealth access.

Instead, Vindi is a lot like Mesmer in that when you do see them, they are going to be a very tough matchup for Ranger.  As all three specs have enough 'carry' portions to make them rather equal, especially in duels.  

[Flowki.7194]

1 hour ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Almost 100% and 'rather fast' mean it's a balanced matchup then, the only other factor being skill, and they obviously are outskilling who they are fighting.

Vindi is not like say thief to me...a good Ranger should be able to win against thief nearly 100% of time, even DE, as can simply just kite it and attack when they unstealth.  This is the case even if the thief outskills the ranger, as ranger is almost a natural counter, even more now with upcoming stealth access.

Instead, Vindi is a lot like Mesmer in that when you do see them, they are going to be a very tough matchup for Ranger.  As all three specs have enough 'carry' portions to make them rather equal, especially in duels.  

I think I agree with what you are getting at, but I think the point you are missing is the punishment for mistakes element. All vindi really has is evades and dps pressure, I can't really be bothered to get into why that matters, but I jsut know from playing horn/mace, the amount of daze access got me off the back foot so many times when I kitten up. When I miss time evades on vindi it is far harder to recover from it, being why you need to just not kitten up, and play those evades nion flawlessly. It is comparable to playing SPB with 20% more damage but no FC/stab. Hammer cata kinde went that way, more damage and less control/utility, where is hammer cata? Vindi might well end up that way too if the next nerf is too much, a high dmg spec rotting away becuase it is all gank and no tank/utility.

Edited July 16 by Flowki.7194

[arazoth.7290]

2 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Almost 100% and 'rather fast' mean it's a balanced matchup then, the only other factor being skill, and they obviously are outskilling who they are fighting.

Vindi is not like say thief to me...a good Ranger should be able to win against thief nearly 100% of time, even DE, as can simply just kite it and attack when they unstealth.  This is the case even if the thief outskills the ranger, as ranger is almost a natural counter, even more now with upcoming stealth access.

Instead, Vindi is a lot like Mesmer in that when you do see them, they are going to be a very tough matchup for Ranger.  As all three specs have enough 'carry' portions to make them rather equal, especially in duels.  

That person I am talking about is outskilling the entire eu top players in 1v1??? 

That ranger almost has always 100% and makes her kills still fast enough. You call that balanced in what world of yours?

[ArthurDent.9538]

2 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Almost 100% and 'rather fast' mean it's a balanced matchup then, the only other factor being skill, and they obviously are outskilling who they are fighting.

Vindi is not like say thief to me...a good Ranger should be able to win against thief nearly 100% of time, even DE, as can simply just kite it and attack when they unstealth.  This is the case even if the thief outskills the ranger, as ranger is almost a natural counter, even more now with upcoming stealth access.

Instead, Vindi is a lot like Mesmer in that when you do see them, they are going to be a very tough matchup for Ranger.  As all three specs have enough 'carry' portions to make them rather equal, especially in duels.  

My 1v1 winrate against other vindi's is like 80%, my 1v1 winrate against any sort of mace untamed is maybe 10%. Sure, I could take more time to learn the inns and outs of the green fart cloud class but I don't believe for a second it's a balanced matchup.

[arazoth.7290]

1 minute ago, ArthurDent.9538 said:

My 1v1 winrate against other vindi's is like 80%, my 1v1 winrate against any sort of mace untamed is maybe 10%. Sure, I could take more time to learn the inns and outs of the green fart cloud class but I don't believe for a second it's a balanced matchup.

He tried to protect extra hard his ranger ;).

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 minute ago, arazoth.7290 said:

That person I am talking about is outskilling the entire eu top players in 1v1??? 

That ranger almost has always 100% and makes her kills still fast enough. You call that balanced in what world of yours?

It's balanced as everything you type here sounds like hyperbole.  On EU I only know Boyce, does this cat person have a stream?

2 minutes ago, ArthurDent.9538 said:

Sure, I could take more time to learn the inns and outs of the green fart cloud class but I don't believe for a second it's a balanced matchup.

Yeah, would be a good start to actually learn what's wrecking you.  

There's a reason you see a vindi in nearly every plat game, along with creaper.  Because they're weak, that's it.