Anet its time to lock MMR, best single change you could ever make

[Mne Malo Tebya.2965]

1 minute ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Premade AT has nothing to do with this, I know a lot of decent players who are in and out of g3/p1

You tell me that 20% of g3 players are actually plat but only stuck in gold due wide mmr. I tell you that g3 players cant even remotely compete with true plat players because they get farmed in AT's. If you watch a match of plat lfg team vs a gold lfg team, you will see that they have a skill gap. The gold players are gold for a reason, not because mmr makes them stuck in gold. 

[Flowki.7194]

12 minutes ago, Mne Malo Tebya.2965 said:

You tell me that 20% of g3 players are actually plat but only stuck in gold due wide mmr. I tell you that g3 players cant even remotely compete with true plat players because they get farmed in AT's. If you watch a match of plat lfg team vs a gold lfg team, you will see that they have a skill gap. The gold players are gold for a reason, not because mmr makes them stuck in gold. 

And if that were true, then it actually plays into my argument even more. Why are p2s in the same games as g2s?

[Last Crab.6054]

6 hours ago, maxwelgm.4315 said:

As much as it'd be funny to see the top duos queueing for hours and as nice as it would be to never match to them, there's a cascade of changes not considered here, such as: having to make sure the MMR is locked by the highest rated player in a duo, changing the class matchmaking system to allow for classes to overlap (or not allowing swaps at least) otherwise with the low amount of players, matchmaking would become entirely controllable and predictable by p3/p2 players on their side of things, and also (maybe not even possible?) controlling for multiboxing with alts as it also means you can potentially and utterly control the matchmaking if your pool of competitors is a group of ~25 people at most. And there's probably other things that would make this change not really have the impact you'd expect.

honestly, I couldnt care if the "top" duos ever got a game again.

they don't spend money on the game, they don't add anything to content

they dont play fairly

they exploit every thing they can.

it would be nice if they could never q again

[Mne Malo Tebya.2965]

7 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

And if that were true, then it actually plays into my argument even more. Why are p2s in the same games as g2s?

I repeat myself again for the 235th time. YES it sucks and it is bad that p2 get matched into g2. And i say it again, your solution will make things worse.

[Flowki.7194]

9 hours ago, Mne Malo Tebya.2965 said:

I repeat myself again for the 235th time. YES it sucks and it is bad that p2 get matched into g2. And i say it again, your solution will make things worse.

I had a suspition you were a p2+ player, and confirmed that on your posts in another thread, I kinde don't trust your position to remain unbias, aka youre only thinking about p2+ players. The silver, gold, and p1 population would survive absolutely fine with a tighter MMR range as they are like 95% of the playerbase, it is p2+ that "could" suffer. Tighter MMR will improve match competition for 95% of the playerbase, but "could" make it worse for the top 5%. I say could, becuase a more stable MMR range would lead to more people getting into p1, which is what p2s would be matched with. P3s? I actually don't care, becuase any p3 who wants to keep in place a system that screws over 95% of the playerbase just for their own benefit, is a fking loser.

Edited July 29 by Flowki.7194

[Mne Malo Tebya.2965]

19 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Tighter MMR will improve match competition for 95% of the playerbase, but "could" make it worse for the top 5%

Since you dont seem able to understand that it would make it worse for the entire pvp population. Im gonna stop this conversation  at this point. ty

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Locking mmr in that way would probably make queue times so long that the already small population would never be able to get matched.  The impatience that leads players to afk matches the instant they sense it isn't a cakewalk is present for queue waiting too.

How about instead, the following:

* players cannot duo queue in ranked, only tournaments (suddenly the matchmaker works again)

* apart from match win rating gain, players are rewarded largely for in game performance via a pool of metrics that are revealed post game, so nobody knows what metrics get the point weighting and can't build around ensuring obtaining a couple. 

* The reward multiplies generously if one player has multiple metric leads, so a bad team doesn't reduce the game to a state where not trying is preferable. 

* top two MVP in team have half of their rating loss split against the remaining 3 players. If one player has the extreme lead for the game aspects monitored during that match, they are exempt from rating loss and the match is considered a draw for them. 

* close matches carry less rating loss (losing team 400 or higher at game end)

The problem with mmr isn't ONLY that you get matched with weak links, its that strong links can prestack and if that happens there is no provision for effort or mastery in a losing match anyway, despite that being out of your control. 

Anet needs to understand why people hate doing group projects where they don't pick the groups themselves, and appeal to the people that obviously have a reason to dislike group projects. 

Literally nobody wants to try to carry four silvers because the two plat players in that pool are tied together by bungie cords, especially when one of the silvers thinks they're a temporarily embarrassed legend and afks after losing 1v5 at mid.

 

Edited July 29 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Flowki.7194]

Its actually depressing how short sighted people are on this topic. Its like staying in an abusive relationship becuse "you might not find another parnter".

 

It is this simple read it carefully: A game that puts top players in the same game as players with half their skill IS ALREADY DEAD.

 

Decent players are sticking around chasing the carrot on a stick of titles nobody gives a fk about (coz 80% of the pople you killed to get them had half your skill).. and that particular cohort of the playerbase, which is most of you posting on here, are dismissing the fact that farming those players is bleeding the sPVP retention rates <as evidecned by the wide MMR>

Edited July 29 by Flowki.7194

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

15 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

It is this simple read it carefully: A game that puts top players in the same game as players with half their skill IS ALREADY DEAD.

Its not very difficult to understand that if you have 1 silver player, 6 gold 2 players and three plat players queuing all at the same time, its more preferable to put them in a match than wait 10+ minutes hoping more people sign on that match the bracket, all the while hoping to Grenth none of them decide to go watch Netflix instead. 

The population IS dead. The solution isn't to make it deader.

Edited July 29 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Flowki.7194]

25 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Its not very difficult to understand that if you have 1 silver player, 6 gold 2 players and three plat players queuing all at the same time, its more preferable to put them in a match than wait 10+ minutes hoping more people sign on that match the bracket, all the while hoping to Grenth none of them decide to go watch Netflix instead. 

The population IS dead. The solution isn't to make it deader.

Your numbers are wrong. It is more like 3-5 silver, 3-5 gold, and 1-2 plat on peak in terms of ratios. You know full well most plats are off peak or duo. I see them all online after 12, like gremlings. Off peak is more like 1-5 silver, 3-5 gold, 4-7 plats. I don't exactly know why plats off-peak, is it to avoid the wide MMR and get in games with more plats? or to avoid plats and farm golds? You tell me.

Edited July 29 by Flowki.7194

[Flowki.7194]

Btw I just been in a game vs 2 duos, multiple plats, and a god of arena. I am g3, and we had two g2s. Justify this bs any more?... very clear what that game was about.

[Yerlock.4678]

On 7/28/2024 at 3:40 PM, Flowki.7194 said:

Lets say you are S3, you que up, the game will only try to match you with S3. That should last 5 min. After 5 min, it will then widen the search so that S2 and G1 can be recruited to join the S3 game. Thats it.. no wider.

 

Slowly but surely this is what happens. People who play the game with team work have a much higher chance of climbing. Those who do not work as a team, more chance of falling. Currently, the system is so wide that a few "true plat" skilled players can carry games, and those types of players who don't work as a team can stay at higher rankgs (g2/3) becuase of the 50/50 carries. In this current system, that means you get absolutely penalised for playing anything other than a roam spec, which is least impacted by the complete lack of team work. Not suprisingly, roam specs are highly over represented now, which further reduces team work, and any group fight ability, which alienates all support/group fight specs.

 

Ontop of that, plat duos then capitalise on the chaos and 0 team work vs solo plats, and get to duo farm the rest of the players who have half their skill.

 

Locking MMr allows supports, group fighters, teamworkers, and solo que plats to ALL be more viable, while competition overall would increase 10 fold. Selfish players would eventually plumet in rating, and duo plats would be far less effective when the enemy team is mostly p2/1.. who will all have a far better understanding of the game and team work. More players from g2/3 on specs like full support, now have a much better chance of climbing into p1 as solo que, the plat population would gradually increase at p1, and p2/3 would reduce, since those players are now no logner benefiting from duo off peaking.. we get to finally see who the real best players are.

Locking MMR also makes q times 25+ minutes. If the population wasn't 8 people per search then it would be a cool idea, but the matchmaker works the way it does cuz they know even in ranked if people wait longer than 8-10 minutes at most they log off. And btw, que times even now are becoming more 10 minutes'ish.

There's no good solution unless you get to the root of the problem which is population. Every temporary solution would be a band aid fix with a negative aspect.

That being said if it were up to me I'd seriously start pushing AT's as the group based playstyle and have all of what is now ranked/unranked into a single ranked ungrouped matchmaker.

I'd also ditch the concept of Daily AT's on a  set schedule, and instead have it as a que based system. Don't have a fully group with you? No problem the matchmaker finds pugs for you to play with. When you think about the insane incentives of having 1st place win 25 gold with potentially no downtime hours in between, I think that would drastically help with the pvp population. To the point where anet would have to nerf the rewards slightly lol.

TLDR: Combine unranked/ranked into only solo able ranked. Change  daily AT's from a set schedule to que based, so that groups can do their group thing anytime they want. Weeklies/Monthlies would be unchanged.

[arazoth.7290]

Just remove duo queues and remove being able to swap class while waiting

Edited August 1 by arazoth.7290

[Saiyan.1704]

3 hours ago, Yerlock.4678 said:

Locking MMR also makes q times 25+ minutes.

Exactly the queue times would be astronomical. This isn't an argument, it's just a fact because Anet has attempted to do exactly what OP is wanting but it failed.

If you don't know your history, then you risk repeating it.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

Out of interest, are you EU or NA OP? The EU population isn't healthy in a lot of ways, but it is more healthy than NA from what I gather. 

On topic: There is no guarantee that your change would enable more people to move up from gold to plat, in fact it's practically guaranteed to change almost nothing long term while killing off anything higher than gold rank at the same time.

Think about it. You're saying that single or duo plat players are causing blowout games in lower rankings, right? Locking the MMR would temporarily stop the blowout 500-10 type of matches as the plat players are forced to endure insane ques instead of playing in your games, but what happens next? Either you'll get stuck in gold with your 50% win rate, changing nothing, or you'll win more games, move up to plat, have to queue much, much longer for a game in the short term only to get your head stamped on by those same one or two plat players you were trying to get out of your gold ranked games. Even if loads of people moved up to plat, you'd end up with games with 7-8 gold players and 2-3 plat players. How is this different than what you had before? All you have done is moved the goalposts. 

I hate to say it, but if the problem of unbalanced matches is that those 1-2 plat players are dominating games, it doesn't matter if the plat players are in a gold game or if the gold players are in a plat game: if the problem is caused by a skill gap then the lower skill players are still gonna get stomped. The real core issue is that the population is too small. Your solution may make gold more stable in the short term but in truth it only kicks the problem somewhere else, devalues the higher rankings and kills off the incentive to rise in rankings in the process.