you need variance in treasure mushroom spawn timers

[Duke Nukem.6783]

I am missing out on treasure mushrooms because they always spawn at the same place and time and tryhards are just there with a stopwatch killing it instantly. i can't organically find them anymore. they are totally controlled by groups of players farming them.

[Cyninja.2954]

Treasure Mushrooms have a re-spawn timer  of 10 minutes. Most players which "farm" them call this out in map chat.

You've never found something to do for 9 minutes and 59 seconds on a map where you want to kill a treasure mushroom?

FYI: most TMs which are killed on loop are ones near meta events and shortly before and after those meta events. Most notably Auric Basin and Tangled Depths.

Now be honest, which TMs were you having in mind exactly? Is it those 2 on those maps and you are salty you couldn't nab one around the time you were heading to a meta?

Bad news, with random timers you'd still come up empty handed because a dozen other players would have checked the spot before you and worse than now: probably not made a mention in map chat to note the time of kill.

Edited August 14 by Cyninja.2954

[Duke Nukem.6783]

Just now, Cyninja.2954 said:

Treasure Mushrooms have a re-spawn timer  of 10 minutes. Most players which "farm" them call this out in map chat.

You've never found something to do for 9 minutes and 59 seconds on a map where you want to kill a treasure mushroom?

FYI: most TMs which are killed on loop are ones near meta events and shortly before and after those meta events. Most notably Auric Basin and Tangled Depths.

Now be honest, which TMs were you having in mind exactly? Is it those 2 on those maps and you are salty you couldn't nab one around the time you were heading to a meta?

Bad news, with random timers you'd still come up empty handed because a dozen other players would have checked the spot before your and worse than now: probably not made a mention in map chat to note the time of kill.

this breaks immersion, is exclusionary, and creates bad gameplay cycles where casual players can't get a treasure mushroom

 

it should change

[Cyninja.2954]

Just now, Duke Nukem.6783 said:

this breaks immersion, is exclusionary, and creates bad gameplay cycles where casual players can't get a treasure mushroom

 

it should change

As I've mentioned: you are ASSUMING that a random timer would increase your chance to see a mushroom. You are mistaken.

It's a 10 minute timer at that, both of the metas I mentioned give you at least 2 moments to kill a mushroom while naturally doing the meta.

[Duke Nukem.6783]

3 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

As I've mentioned: you are ASSUMING that a random timer would increase your chance to see a mushroom. You are mistaken.

It's a 10 minute timer at that, both of the metas I mentioned give you at least 2 moments to kill a mushroom while naturally doing the meta.

it would absolutely increase my chance to see a mushroom, people would not be preemptively congregated there killing it in under a minute

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

It should not change.

The VB TM dies right after reset and can be grabbed if you missed it after Matriarch spawns and is killed.

The TD TM dies prior to or during the next meta after reset and respawns while waiting for that damnable wall to come down.

The AB TM, if you are quick after the TD meta, can be grabbed right after the TD meta, and if you are not quick, there is enough time before Octovine starts to sit there and wait for it to spawn.

The DS TMs can be grabbed between the VB and TD metas if that meta was began prior to reset and can be fit in between the VB and TD metas/TMs.

The Bloodstone Fen TM can be grabbed after the ones above, and if it is dead when you get there, then you have time to go mine some bloodstone rubies.

The TM in Draconic Mons is on a variable timer that can last up to 1 hour and is absolutely horrendous to wait for. The TM in DM is the only one that functions the way you are asking and is a miserable experience.

Even if you do not grab the TMs on the reset meta loop, they take all of 10 minutes to spawn. Ask in chat when the last one died, someone will tell you, and you'll know how long you have to fiddle around and wait. 

Edited August 14 by Lan Deathrider.5910

[Duke Nukem.6783]

3 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

It should not change.

The VB TM dies right after reset and can be grabbed if you missed it after Matriarch spawns and is killed.

The TD TM dies prior to or during the next meta after reset and respawns while waiting for that damnable wall to come down.

The AB TM, if you are quick after the TD meta, can be grabbed right after the TD meta, and if you are not quick, there is enough time before Octovine starts to sit there and wait for it to spawn.

The DS TMs can be grabbed between the VB and TD metas if that meta was began prior to reset and can be fit in between the VB and TD metas/TMs.

The Bloodstone Fen TM can be grabbed after the ones above, and if it is dead when you get there, then you have time to go mine some bloodstone rubies.

The TM in Draconic Mons is on a variable timer that can last up to 1 hour and is absolutely horrendous to wait for. The TM in DM is the only one that functions the way you are asking and is a miserable experience.

Even if you do not grab the TMs on the reset meta loop, they take all of 10 minutes to spawn. Ask in chat when the last one died, someone will tell you, and you'll know how long you have to fiddle around and wait. 

you teaching me when they spawn does not fix the problem. you did not explain why it should stay the way it is. it is exclusionary, it ruins immersion, and makes people set timers or they miss it. its not casual friendly.

you are just suggesting workarounds, and then saying that because work arounds exist a problem is OK to leave behind.

[Cyninja.2954]

3 minutes ago, Duke Nukem.6783 said:

it would absolutely increase my chance to see a mushroom, people would not be preemptively congregated there killing it in under a minute

No it would not. Okay guess it's time to explain why changing a PREDICTABLE npc spawn into an UNPREDICTABLE npc spawn does NOT increase your chances and in fact might reduce them:

1. Making TMs unpredictable would lead to less players globally getting kills on them (because on average, less players would tag the mushroom)

2. Less TMs killed means less invisible shoes

3. Less invisible shoes means higher price, which creates higher demand

4. Higher demand and the inability to go for the npc as desired will lead to MORE individuals to check on the mushrooms more frequently

 

You are defacto creating  a situation where globale less players get the kill, while simultaneously more players look for the mushroom.

Your idea would lead to you seeing even less mushrooms than now AND affect all the other players as well.

If you want to see more mushrooms, all it takes is for you to be on maps 5 minutes early to a meta, or check after the meta.

The mere idea that changing from something predicatable to unpredictable would increase your chances is hilarious, unless you are ignoring how this change affects other player behavior.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 minute ago, Duke Nukem.6783 said:

you teaching me when they spawn does not fix the problem. you did not explain why it should stay the way it is. it is exclusionary, it ruins immersion, and makes people set timers or they miss it. its not casual friendly.

you are just suggesting workarounds, and then saying that because work arounds exist a problem is OK to leave behind.

It should stay the way it is because it is a set pattern that is extremely easy to incorporate into a gaming session and completely respects the player's time, especially casual players. The current spawn method is the one that is casual friendly, not the variable timer. Your proposed method is the one used by the Draconic Mons mushroom, and is expressly not casual friendly, and does not respect the player's time with its upwards of 1 HOUR respawn rate.

Having the set respawn timers means that you can hop into any of those maps, with the exception of DM, and know with absolute certainty that there will be 10 minutes or less of a wait time for the TM to spawn. I suggested no workarounds FWIW, I just informed you some very certain times that certain TMs are up and killed, beyond that, a guaranteed 10 minute window is very casual friendly. The only way it could be MORE casual friendly is if the kitten thing respawned immediately upon death.

[Duke Nukem.6783]

4 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

No it would not. Okay guess it's time to explain why changing a PREDICTABLE npc spawn into an UNPREDICTABLE npc spawn does NOT increase your chances and in fact might reduce them:

1. Making TMs unpredictable would lead to less players globally getting kills on them (because on average, less players would tag the mushroom)

2. Less TMs killed means less invisible shoes

3. Less invisible shoes means higher price, which creates higher demand

4. Higher demand and the inability to go for the npc as desired will lead to MORE individuals to check on the mushrooms more frequently

 

You are defacto creating  a situation where globale less players get the kill, while simultaneously more players look for the mushroom.

Your idea would lead to you seeing even less mushrooms than now AND affect all the other players as well.

If you want to see more mushrooms, all it takes is for you to be on maps 5 minutes early to a meta, or check after the meta.

The mere idea that changing from something predicatable to unpredictable would increase your chances is hilarious, unless you are ignoring how this change affects other player behavior.

your logic is incomplete, and faulty . you assume that the TM would die less often, rather than that it would die the same amount with a greater variety of players finding it. it will still get found.

you also assume invisible shoes are what i want. i just want to participate in the treasure mushroom kills without breaking immersion.

EVEN IF we accept your logic you are failing to calculate the "increased demand" on the item with the higher effort needed to farm them. which would also have the effect of lowering the impact on people's desire to farm.

[Cyninja.2954]

3 minutes ago, Duke Nukem.6783 said:

your logic is incomplete, and faulty . you assume that the TM would die less often, rather than that it would die the same amount with a greater variety of players finding it. it will still get found.

 

No, I said: less players get the kill on it. There is a DRASTIC difference there. Take a moment to think about it.

Quote

you also assume invisible shoes are what i want. i just want to participate in the treasure mushroom kills without breaking immersion.

I don't care what you want, I am talking from a supply/demand perspective of what most players who go after mushrooms want.

What you want is of 0 consequence to this supply/demand dynamic changing in a direction which makes seeing a mushroom more seldom for players.

Quote

EVEN IF we accept your logic you are failing to calculate the "increased demand" on the item with the higher effort needed to farm them. which would also have the effect of lowering the impact on people's desire to farm.

Higher demand leads to MORE desire to farm something, which here is counter-weighed by not being able to farm it. Higher value leads to more desire, not less.

Edited August 14 by Cyninja.2954

[Sobx.1758]

39 minutes ago, Duke Nukem.6783 said:

I am missing out on treasure mushrooms because they always spawn at the same place and time and tryhards are just there with a stopwatch killing it instantly. (...)
they are totally controlled by groups of players farming them.

No, that is not what's happening, perhaps outside of situation when there are active metas on maps spawning treasure mushrooms. Which in most cases still leaves you with players informing in the map chat when the shroom died and when it should respawn.

Not only that, but the valuable drop comes from the daily bouncy chest, so repeatedly farming it by the same players wouldn't make much sense.

32 minutes ago, Duke Nukem.6783 said:

and creates bad gameplay cycles where casual players can't get a treasure mushroom

False.

26 minutes ago, Duke Nukem.6783 said:

it would absolutely increase my chance to see a mushroom, people would not be preemptively congregated there killing it in under a minute

No, if you "can't" (spoiler alert: you can) kill the shroom on a 10 minute respawn timer in the known place, randomizing time and place sure wouldn't make it easier.

Edited August 14 by Sobx.1758

[Duke Nukem.6783]

2 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

It should stay the way it is because it is a set pattern that is extremely easy to incorporate into a gaming session and completely respects the player's time, especially casual players. The current spawn method is the one that is casual friendly, not the variable timer. Your proposed method is the one used by the Draconic Mons mushroom, and is expressly not casual friendly, and does not respect the player's time with its upwards of 1 HOUR respawn rate.

Having the set respawn timers means that you can hop into any of those maps, with the exception of DM, and know with absolute certainty that there will be 10 minutes or less of a wait time for the TM to spawn. I suggested no workarounds FWIW, I just informed you some very certain times that certain TMs are up and killed, beyond that, a guaranteed 10 minute window is very casual friendly. The only way it could be MORE casual friendly is if the kitten thing respawned immediately upon death.

it is not casual friendly, you must camp it. only  a small cadre of players can get to it now. guess what? casual players actually PLAY THE MAPS. they don't just do metas

[Sobx.1758]

Just now, Duke Nukem.6783 said:

it is not casual friendly, you must camp it. only  a small cadre of players can get to it now. guess what? casual players actually PLAY THE MAPS. they don't just do metas

10 minute respawn in the well known areas means "only small cadre of players can get to it"? In which reality?

Pure nonsense.

[mungozen.2379]

37 minutes ago, Duke Nukem.6783 said:

I am missing out on treasure mushrooms because they always spawn at the same place and time and tryhards are just there with a stopwatch killing it instantly. i can't organically find them anymore. they are totally controlled by groups of players farming them.

Given that the TM have predetermined spawn points, it isn't like you would find them anywhere else but the pathing area around their spawn point.  Does that ruin the 'organic' experience of finding one alive? 

On a dead map it is common to find a TM wandering around, waiting to be tagged.  It is rare to find groups of players sitting in AB or TD waiting for a TM unless there is meta activity.

But, if you have already completed the story and zone achievements, what 'organic' reason would you have to be on a map that spawns a TM?  Meta events?

17 minutes ago, Duke Nukem.6783 said:

you also assume invisible shoes are what i want. i just want to participate in the treasure mushroom kills without breaking immersion.

If you don't care about the loot (and the chest is only once a day anyway), then what reason is there to engage with the TM?

[Duke Nukem.6783]

19 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

No, I said: less players get the kill on it. There is a DRASTIC difference there. Take a moment to think about it.

I don't care what you want, I am talking from a supply/demand perspective of what most players who go after mushrooms want.

What you want is of 0 consequence to this supply/demand dynamic changing in a direction which makes seeing a mushroom more seldom for players.

Higher demand leads to MORE desire to farm something, which here is counter-weighed by not being able to farm it. Higher value leads to more desire, not less.

you failed to take into account that making something harder to farm reduces the number of people who will farm something . you assume you know that they will be farmed more, you don't.

 

in any event its better as it democratizes the process.

[Duke Nukem.6783]

2 minutes ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

Given that the TM have predetermined spawn points, it isn't like you would find them anywhere else but the pathing area around their spawn point.  Does that ruin the 'organic' experience of finding one alive? 

On a dead map it is common to find a TM wandering around, waiting to be tagged.  It is rare to find groups of players sitting in AB or TD waiting for a TM unless there is meta activity.

But, if you have already completed the story and zone achievements, what 'organic' reason would you have to be on a map that spawns a TM?  Meta events?

If you don't care about the loot (and the chest is only once a day anyway), then what reason is there to engage with the TM?

completing weapon collections and achievements can take years

[Duke Nukem.6783]

7 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

10 minute respawn in the well known areas means "only small cadre of players can get to it"? In which reality?

Pure nonsense.

as it currently stands you would need to be there in advance, waiting, to get to it in time. there are too many players waiting who just know where it is. also the locations are not "well known" by normal players

[costepj.5120]

I'm a very casual player who manages to kill Timmy in AB every day while prepping for the meta. The only reason i can do that is I know he's on a 10 minute timer at a set location,  so I can take a few minutes out from other events to wait for him to spawn. If he was on a random timer or spawned at a random location, chances are I'd never get to kill him.

[Sobx.1758]

4 minutes ago, Duke Nukem.6783 said:

as it currently stands you would need to be there in advance, waiting, to get to it in time. there are too many players waiting who just know where it is. also the locations are not "well known" by normal players

They are well known by normal players (which includes you, so not sure why you're trying to make up imaginary player instead, other than... to fit the narrative you want that imaginary player to fit?) and -as already was pointed out- putting shrooms in unknown places with higher respawn wouldn't increase your chances of encountering it.

And no, you don't need to be there in advance, plenty of times I just happen to stumble into one of the shrooms running around. You're making things up as you go, but you're incorrect for all the reasons mentioned before, which you're intentionally avoiding. I can repeat them for you again, if you need it.

Edited August 14 by Sobx.1758

[Cyninja.2954]

18 minutes ago, Duke Nukem.6783 said:

you failed to take into account that making something harder to farm reduces the number of people who will farm something . you assume you know that they will be farmed more, you don't.

It will get farmed MORE by more hardcore farmers, and will get farmed less by LESS hardcore farmers. You are in the later segment of players.

I did not fail to take that into account, I literally mentioned just that earlier. Some players will more aggressively look for mushrooms while other players will not see mushrooms or bother to check on them, aka leading to less kills overall (EDIT: and just to be clear again: less kills means less kills attributed to players. 5 players killing the mushroom means 5 players got the kill off of that 1 mushroom. 1 player killing the same mushroom with no one around leads to 1 player getting a kill)..

Quote

in any event its better as it democratizes the process.

Your assumption that with your approach of casual game play, which you are not even willing to adjust to a small fixed timer of 10 minutes, in any way makes you even remotely play in the same ball league as some more hardcore players is what you don't seem to understand.

Seriously, you are complaining about not being able to swing by a spot, which often gets announced in map chat too, on a less than 10 minute fixed timer.

Like seriously, do a reality check and actually think for a moment about what types of players you are competing for with this spawn.

Edited August 14 by Cyninja.2954

[mungozen.2379]

Just now, Duke Nukem.6783 said:

completing weapon collections and achievements can take years

It sure can, and in my 'years' of grinding through HoT achieves, I have solo'd the TM many times.  Like I said, outside of Meta times, on dead maps, the TM can be up and wandering around waiting to be tagged.  

1 minute ago, Duke Nukem.6783 said:

as it currently stands you would need to be there in advance, waiting, to get to it in time. there are too many players waiting who just know where it is. also the locations are not "well known" by normal players

How many players waiting for it to spawn doesn't affect your ability to tag it.  You may call it immersion breaking to see a bunch of people waiting for it, but doesn't that hold true for any other mob or event that people are waiting for?  Both 'normal' and 'casual' players regularly get introduced to new content by seeing people gathering in map and reading map chat.

[mungozen.2379]

For giggles, I logged in, and found TD TM up just now.  Dead map, and there it was.  No booties tho 😞

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

go to the spawn location>wait until spawns>kill it>move to the next map

it's that simple. You don't want to wait? Good for you, go do something else.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Duke Nukem.6783 said:

it is not casual friendly, you must camp it. only  a small cadre of players can get to it now. guess what? casual players actually PLAY THE MAPS. they don't just do metas

That ain't camping. Camping is waiting up to an hour for a random spawn. You're wrong on every level my man, just accept it.