August 20 patch notes.

[Kagaho.5378]

Let's not tiptoe around.... revenant spear is gonna get nerfed hard folks (in PvE). I've never seen such high performance with such a low execution threshold. 2 button weapon skill rotation (not counting auto attacks) + no real need for a weapon swap. Over 50k dps for pure dmg builds AND 45k dps for cquick.... (42k for calac). This needs to get slammed from orbit. I was doing strikes last night and a renegade spear user was severely outperforming everyone else. This takes me immediately back to the patch where Scourge got mega-steroids and suddenly I was doing sub 20 minute public group ibs5 clears (starting clock at squad formation lol). 

Now, what I am more interested in is to see if ANET can nerf this weapon without making it feel bad to use and keep the "new weapon energy" going strong. Ideally I'd like to see spear + mace/axe (actually using a weapon swap) as the highest condi dps option for most Revenant builds. Perhaps Shortbow + either spear or mace/axe should be the highest renegade condi dps option (with its traitline support for bleed)? Or perhaps they could lean harder into the identity of Shortbow as a "hybrid" weapon and give it better viability for pure power builds too.

Edited August 22 by Kagaho.5378

[Jobber.6348]

33 minutes ago, Kagaho.5378 said:

Let's not tiptoe around.... revenant spear is gonna get nerfed hard folks (in PvE). I've never seen such high performance with such a low execution threshold. 2 button weapon skill rotation (not counting auto attacks) + no real need for a weapon swap. Over 50k dps for pure dmg builds AND 45k dps for cquick.... (42k for calac). This needs to get slammed from orbit. I was doing strikes last night and a renegade spear user was severely outperforming everyone else. This takes me immediately back to the patch where Scourge got mega-steroids and suddenly I was doing sub 20 minute public group ibs5 clears (starting clock at squad formation lol). 

Now, what I am more interested in is to see if ANET can nerf this weapon without making it feel bad to use and keep the "new weapon energy" going strong. Ideally I'd like to see spear as the highest condi dps option for most Revenant builds. Mace + Axe should be in the same ballpark, but given that Mace allows for an offhand, I feel that the flexibility there (of being able to go more defensive by taking shield, or offensive by taking axe) should necessitate slightly lower dmg when compared to spear (where you are locked into the move-set). Perhaps Shortbow should be the highest renegade condi dps option (with its traitline support for bleed) , and spear for everything else? Or perhaps they could lean harder into the identity of Shortbow as a "hybrid" weapon and give it better viability for pure power builds too.

Can only hope it's just ramping damage nerf and not functionality nerf. Nerfing a weapon's functionality is usually what makes it bad to use, no matter how deserved a nerf is. 

Shortbow imo needs to lean more on Power now with Spear holding the spotlight. Shortbow has always been hybrid yet have a rather weak coefficient for the Auto and Skill 2 in particular. If those were buffed and skill 2 especially reworked to be consistent, I'll be happy. 

[Buran.3796]

20 hours ago, Uete.3805 said:

Poison's good specially for competitive and makes sense alongside burning for demonic reasons. Let it be.

   Competitive...   You mean that the spear will be used in competitive? As the scepter?...   That's cute 🤣

[Angesombre.4630]

4 hours ago, Kagaho.5378 said:

Let's not tiptoe around.... revenant spear is gonna get nerfed hard folks (in PvE). I've never seen such high performance with such a low execution threshold. 2 button weapon skill rotation (not counting auto attacks) + no real need for a weapon swap. Over 50k dps for pure dmg builds AND 45k dps for cquick.... (42k for calac). This needs to get slammed from orbit. I was doing strikes last night and a renegade spear user was severely outperforming everyone else. This takes me immediately back to the patch where Scourge got mega-steroids and suddenly I was doing sub 20 minute public group ibs5 clears (starting clock at squad formation lol). 

Now, what I am more interested in is to see if ANET can nerf this weapon without making it feel bad to use and keep the "new weapon energy" going strong. Ideally I'd like to see spear + mace/axe (actually using a weapon swap) as the highest condi dps option for most Revenant builds. Perhaps Shortbow + either spear or mace/axe should be the highest renegade condi dps option (with its traitline support for bleed) , and spear for everything else? Or perhaps they could lean harder into the identity of Shortbow as a "hybrid" weapon and give it better viability for pure power builds too.

There was the thief with his axe who did monstrous damage.

 

Edited August 22 by Angesombre.4630

[Jobber.6348]

4 hours ago, Angesombre.4630 said:

There was the thief with his axe who did monstrous damage.

 

Ye and it got rightfully hammered down. He ain't wrong in assuming a 50k bench might get tuned down but I really hope it isn't soon or isn't done just cos Revs can't have nice things.

Not like the rotation is a brain drool like Thief either.

[Buran.3796]

  Now that I think about it, the nerf of   Angsiyan's Trust  is a big win for me, since before I never did use Energy Meld, but in more capable hands was an extra tool avaliable. Now that is even more useless than Charged Mists in PvP I feel I can ignore it with no consequences instead of ignoring it but having a cost... 😂 

[Jobber.6348]

8 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

  Now that I think about it, the nerf of   Angsiyan's Trust  is a big win for me, since before I never did use Energy Meld, but in more capable hands was an extra tool avaliable. Now that is even more useless than Charged Mists in PvP I feel I can ignore it with no consequences instead of ignoring it but having a cost... 😂 

It will still be a valued pick as long as Energy Meld still restores Endurance. 

The main power of Angsiyan is the fact it removes Energy Cost instead, so it can literally give 0 Energy back and still be a better pick than nerfed Reaver's Curse and nerfed Song. 
This is the result of having an extra button for button's sake instead of just having Alliance Tactics replacing F2 and having non-Alliance F2 be something else. 

[Buran.3796]

Just for science: 12 ranked matches played since the patch, saw 4 Vindis, only one wielded hammer, only one wielded spear; I don't expect a single Rev in the next MAT. 

[Vennyhedgie.5369]

So swaping between two spears does not trigger the burst anymore. Or did it not do that before either?

[Shagie.7612]

20 minutes ago, Vennyhedgie.5369 said:

So swaping between two spears does not trigger the burst anymore. Or did it not do that before either?

It never has.

[Vennyhedgie.5369]

4 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

It never has.

I may have been missled then. Curse you youtube comments.

[Jobber.6348]

2 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

Just for science: 12 ranked matches played since the patch, saw 4 Vindis, only one wielded hammer, only one wielded spear; I don't expect a single Rev in the next MAT. 

Going back to Core and maybe run GS Swords Leadership Relic as a +1 

[arazoth.7290]

7 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

  Now that I think about it, the nerf of   Angsiyan's Trust  is a big win for me, since before I never did use Energy Meld, but in more capable hands was an extra tool avaliable. Now that is even more useless than Charged Mists in PvP I feel I can ignore it with no consequences instead of ignoring it but having a cost... 😂 

I still have it as 1st pick because free energy cost. And the other 2 options in pvp are underwhelming. The other 2 options are half baked and not looked again after when they changed it...

[Shagie.7612]

Really wishing the patch had fixed the Band Together bug, good lord man
I'm gonna punch a hole in my monitor the next time I die because what SHOULD be an instant cast is not.

Anyways spear quite good, no idea why so many people think it's bad in spvp, don't think condi rev is complex or mechanically demanding so idk what everyone's missing

Edited August 24 by Shagie.7612

[Jobber.6348]

17 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

Really wishing the patch had fixed the Band Together bug, good lord man
I'm gonna punch a hole in my monitor the next time I die because what SHOULD be an instant cast is not.

Anyways spear quite good, no idea why so many people think it's bad in spvp, don't think condi rev is complex or mechanically demanding so idk what everyone's missing

People trying to camp it, either due to old Rev habits or just inexperienced in competitive. Old Rev habits is due to having very few options for weapons so you usually have 1 main set and 1 defense set as opposed to other professions. 

In modern Gw2, you CANNOT do this anymore. You just lose so much pressure by camping 1 set, both Power and Condi builds. (That's why Staff sucks now) 

Shortbow + Spear is working well for me on the old Celestial Renegade build for WvW and you can seriously fight many matchups much better due to Spear's cover conditions. In sPvP I'm actually using a hilarious Core build with Spear and Greatsword. Spear's 600 range power damage is actually very nice in sPvP where stats are balanced by amulets so your max stacked CA during a team fight is nothing to sneeze at. If you get pressured, you Evade with Spear 3 and keep chucking spears to kite or use GS to counterpressure. 

[arazoth.7290]

44 minutes ago, Jobber.6348 said:

That's why Staff sucks now

 

And staff needs in general some update atleast.

And now we're at it, scepter from previous expansion still needs adressing 

[Jobber.6348]

5 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

And staff needs in general some update atleast.

And now we're at it, scepter from previous expansion still needs adressing 

STAFF MAKES ME MADGE. 

[Shagie.7612]

1 hour ago, Jobber.6348 said:

People trying to camp it, either due to old Rev habits or just inexperienced in competitive. Old Rev habits is due to having very few options for weapons so you usually have 1 main set and 1 defense set as opposed to other professions. 

idk, i've just been playing it as a replacement for shortbow, with mace/shield as a relatively defensive set, and it's gone extremely well so far as cren

you can pressure specs that shortbow never hurt, you can go rabid if you want since spear's power coefficients aren't that hot (i still prefer carrion personally), you can like, actually hurt a shadow arts teef now

landing like an aoe pull into razorclaw/icerazor in a teamfight does a bajillion damage and so much more of it actually STICKS now compared to doing it with shortbow
if you're ramped up you're forcing dodges so much easier than ever before that it's much easier to catch people without cooldowns/cleanses/stunbreaks

who knows if it'll be a meta build, prolly not since it's still pretty vulnerable to a coordinated team just w keying it down, but it's significantly better than condi rev was before spear and infinitely better than it has been in a very long time, imo

my only real complaint is abyssal force sometimes feels like it should have been a successful cast but doesn't go off, and mines are really inconsistent on how many you get

Edited August 24 by Shagie.7612

[Buran.3796]

1 hour ago, Shagie.7612 said:

Anyways spear quite good, no idea why so many people think it's bad in spvp, don't think condi rev is complex or mechanically demanding so idk what everyone's missing

  A mix between not having any kind of block, having a very weak mobility and damage skills designed to mele facetank the piñata golem which perform poorly against foes with a functional brain.

   For example, yesterady in unranked I was trying condi Vindi with short bow, mace & axe and while did well in temafights where you can stack cc over the attacks of your partners and overwhelm the defensive tools of the enemies, once was forced to fight one vs one against a competent Harbinger it was totally onesided: He had better pressure at any range, better mobility, more burst damage and a stroger cc game supported by unblockable AoE skills, so even playing well the most I could do was just dying at slower pace...

   I'm  currently playing in ranked with power Vindi (two variants: gs + staff or three swords) with Alliance + Jalis and can do ok but obviously won't work at tournaments because has 0 pressure at range and Jalis too much mobility. And won't change since the meta is: every build has decent damage at any range, good mobility and excellent sustain. The Rev spear is a relic of the past designed to game modes in which your foes doesn't move and fight at mele, and you don't need defenses or cleanses and you can calmy cast skills to stack and cast other skills like you're placing dominoes in the geriatric. Is like going in a SUV to a race in a track full of Lotus Emira and Porsche Cayman GT4...

   Alternatively I'm also playing stunchain Spellbreaker which has some weakness vs ranged foes but man it does war crimes and becomes annoying 😄

[Shagie.7612]

29 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

 For example, yesterady in unranked I was trying condi Vindi with short bow, mace & axe and while did well in temafights where you can stack cc over the attacks of your partners and overwhelm the defensive tools of the enemies, once was forced to fight one vs one against a competent Harbinger it was totally onesided:

you have no defensive skills like that and you're fighting something that almost nothing in the entire game hurts in a 1v1, of course you got bodied? heck it even does decently against spellbreaker (well, pre-spear, idk about now)
that's... not exactly representative since literally everyone's in the same boat as you lol

i dunno, mallyx/kalla feelin pretty good, i have no mobility problems by and large, spear chill helps with getting away in ways that shortbow never could, even with the 600 range. if they bump it to 900 there won't be any purpose to shortbow as a weapon, not even sure there is one right now even at 600

Edited August 24 by Shagie.7612

[Jobber.6348]

36 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

  A mix between not having any kind of block, having a very weak mobility and damage skills designed to mele facetank the piñata golem which perform poorly against foes with a functional brain.

   For example, yesterady in unranked I was trying condi Vindi with short bow, mace & axe and while did well in temafights where you can stack cc over the attacks of your partners and overwhelm the defensive tools of the enemies, once was forced to fight one vs one against a competent Harbinger it was totally onesided: He had better pressure at any range, better mobility, more burst damage and a stroger cc game supported by unblockable AoE skills, so even playing well the most I could do was just dying at slower pace...

   I'm  currently playing in ranked with power Vindi (two variants: gs + staff or three swords) with Alliance + Jalis and can do ok but obviously won't work at tournaments because has 0 pressure at range and Jalis too much mobility. And won't change since the meta is: every build has decent damage at any range, good mobility and excellent sustain. The Rev spear is a relic of the past designed to game modes in which your foes doesn't move and fight at mele, and you don't need defenses or cleanses and you can calmy cast skills to stack and cast other skills like you're placing dominoes in the geriatric. Is like going in a SUV to a race in a track full of Lotus Emira and Porsche Cayman GT4...

   Alternatively I'm also playing stunchain Spellbreaker which has some weakness vs ranged foes but man it does war crimes and becomes annoying 😄

That's just Harbinger being busted, nothing new here. 

Necro has been busted in PvP for a very very very long time now ever since they kept getting free stats via Death Magic, Curses/Spite. I mean, what kinda spec can self sustain 25 might off a SINGLE traitline and no utility casts? Not many, at least not anymore. Remember why Incensed Response was nerfed again? Oh yea. Right. WELL DONE Anet. 

[Buran.3796]

14 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

you have no defensive skills like that and you're fighting something that almost nothing in the entire game hurts in a 1v1, of course you got bodied? heck it even does decently against spellbreaker (well, pre-spear, idk about now)
that's... not exactly representative since literally everyone's in the same boat as you lol

   ...A team mate put down that Harb with his Willbender in like 12 seconds. And WB isn't even meta. Neither HB.

  Modern PvP is like Formula 1: you need speed, power, maneuverability. Condi Rev and the spear (and scepter) have nothing of that. They aren'r remotely designed with PvP in mind, and means that unless the damage coeficient are broken they will never have a place in competitive game modes. They are like 2-3 steps behind the specs which are in the waiting list to even enter in the meta.

Edited August 24 by Buran.3796

[Jobber.6348]

Just now, Buran.3796 said:

   ...A team mate put down that Harb with his Willbender in like 12 seconds. And WB isn't even meta.

  Modern PvP is like Formula 1: yo need speed, power, maneuverability. Condi Rev and the spear (and scepter) have nothing of that. They aren'r remotely designed with PvP in mind, and means that unless the damage coeficient are broken they will never have a place in competitive game modes.

Which is why you spam Mallyx instead. All the CC and Mobility in one and then crush them with Blind spams via Dark Field Blast finishers. 

Trick is you don't run Vindicator since Energy refund from Angsyian was nerfed, you run Core instead. I run Carrion Core Jalis Mallyx and dumpster people. 

[Shagie.7612]

15 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

...A team mate put down that Harb with his Willbender in like 12 seconds.

You just said it was a competent Harb though lol
WB is much better with spear than it was before but it's still not that hard to kite out and then put in the dirt. Just gotta dodge the immob. That's exactly why it wasn't meta.

Spear's got plenty of strength/power. Not literal strike damage but well, it's not meant to be a power weapon lol. A CC that's now actually really good, an evade that's not so great but not terrible like idk Brutal Shot or something , great cover conditions, decent amounts of chill to complement Mallyx chill and help you kite while still getting damage.

It sounds more to me like you're not playing a build that actually plays to the weapon's strengths.

Edited August 24 by Shagie.7612

[Buran.3796]

1 hour ago, Shagie.7612 said:

It sounds more to me like you're not playing a build that actually plays to the weapon's strengths.

  I'm not playing Jantir Wilds at all, since as I said I don't see it offers much to Rev players (specially at PvP), but the thing is I'm now almost 20 matches since the release and I'm not seing Revs (comprehensible since the patch nerfed damage, defenses, sustain... ) but also I don't see much spears at all (with most professions, and only a single Rev wikth spear so far). I think this eveneing is a Tournament, let's see what showcases...