Revenant October 8 balance patch preview

[arazoth.7290]

4 minutes ago, Jobber.6348 said:

Ultimately it's about Boon uptime while having a smidge of Health and Armor. Perma Protection and 25 might is usually what does the heavy lifting.

We'll likely see more Ritualist roamers and Diviner hit and runs. I'm fine with that. 

Indeed and me too allthough idk about ritualist for that expertise, I still find highef healing power over increased condi uptime for more defense better. In wvw/pvp atleast because cleanses ect, condi appliance and knowing to cover condis does more heavy lifting imo.

Eitherway aside that, I think it will look more healthy for WvW by this change they doing.

So now ppl can hate on tankier condi builds again 😁

[Jobber.6348]

1 hour ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Indeed and me too allthough idk about ritualist for that expertise, I still find highef healing power over increased condi uptime for more defense better. In wvw/pvp atleast because cleanses ect, condi appliance and knowing to cover condis does more heavy lifting imo.

Eitherway aside that, I think it will look more healthy for WvW by this change they doing.

So now ppl can hate on tankier condi builds again 😁

WvW will never be healthy as long as boon meta is heavy in competitive. Even in PvP, there's a small sense of sanity when most stat amulets limit your boon output along with competitive boon splits.

To mimic that in WvW would be insane on another level which is what the Celestial balance tech is trying to achieve atm. If the tech works well, they can start hammering Conc builds in WvW to make people stop vomiting out giga boons.

[Buran.3796]

    After the patches the largest burst of torment I'm getting running spear + short bow is 74 stacks, running full celestial with 73% condi duration and 46% boon duration, in a OW solo build. I don't think is very fast at killing (~17.7k dps according to Hizen) but the sustain is extremely high. 

[Jobber.6348]

8 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

    After the patches the largest burst of torment I'm getting running spear + short bow is 74 stacks, running full celestial with 73% condi duration and 46% boon duration, in a OW solo build. I don't think is very fast at killing (~17.7k dps according to Hizen) but the sustain is extremely high. 

I think despite the nerfs, you're better off camping Spear/Spear for swap sigils. 
Spear is just that kind of weapon that goes "SPAM ME SPAM ME SPAM ME" and the 3CA swap damage is just so pathetic it's a DPS loss regardless. 

If they want people to stop running Spear/Spear, they need to make the 3CA swap actually big pp DPS, at least for people to care in PvE. 

Edited Friday at 04:09 AM by Jobber.6348

[Shagie.7612]

they should revert those preemptive nerfs on citadel bombardment since they buffed solar storm for the JW release :^)

 

[idolin.2831]

Quote

• Notoriety: Increased the might stacks from 1 to 2 in PvP and WvW.

Is it me or isn't Notoriety already giving 2 stacks of Might in WvW? Or is the ingame tooltip wrong?

 

[Meril.1032]

3 hours ago, idolin.2831 said:

Is it me or isn't Notoriety already giving 2 stacks of Might in WvW? Or is the ingame tooltip wrong?

 

it's not you, it's them.

It's already giving 2 stack in wvw(1 stack in pvp)

[Jobber.6348]

15 hours ago, idolin.2831 said:

Is it me or isn't Notoriety already giving 2 stacks of Might in WvW? Or is the ingame tooltip wrong?

 

Not wrong. It's only 1 stack in PvP. 
It's a nothing change for WvW, which arguably will need it more to push up Power builds after Cele is killed. 

Edited Saturday at 02:16 AM by Jobber.6348

[idolin.2831]

So for power herald in WvW it’s just a buff on sword 2. If only they unnerfed sword 4 and incensed response 😞

[Jobber.6348]

5 hours ago, idolin.2831 said:

So for power herald in WvW it’s just a buff on sword 2. If only they unnerfed sword 4 and incensed response 😞

Can only pray for Incensed Response revert but realistically it'll not happen anytime soon, not after they just kneejerk dumpster the entire traitline into the dirt years ago.

Sword buff is fine but it's whatever. It's likely they want to push Power Rev into Sword Shield Greatsword. It's a powerful setup with enough Condi cleanse to deal with the average condi spammer.

Honestly what sword set needs is a sword 3 buff. All it needs is literally copy paste properties from Smoke Assault and it's gucci since Smoke Assault is literally the same skill but:

- more damage

- longer range

- faster cast

- all hits target 1 enemy

It's everything Sword 3 needs.

Edited Saturday at 10:51 AM by Jobber.6348

[Scar.1793]

17 hours ago, idolin.2831 said:

So for power herald in WvW it’s just a buff on sword 2. If only they unnerfed sword 4 and incensed response 😞

So no work done on #3 ? that's sad, cool animation and yet so underwhelming

[idolin.2831]

On 9/21/2024 at 5:50 PM, Jobber.6348 said:

Can only pray for Incensed Response revert but realistically it'll not happen anytime soon, not after they just kneejerk dumpster the entire traitline into the dirt years ago.

Sword buff is fine but it's whatever. It's likely they want to push Power Rev into Sword Shield Greatsword. It's a powerful setup with enough Condi cleanse to deal with the average condi spammer.

Except Shield is terrible, tried it but the root on shield 5 is unbearable. I'm not sure if they would buff Incensed Response either, that would also buff Power Vindi. I love the sword sword set but sword 3 has been buggy forever (although it's still quite good when it's not bugged out and combo'd with Impossible Odds), and sword 4 has been nerfed too many times. 

As for Forceful Persistence, realistically nobody is gonna use it even with the buff because Draconic Echo is too strong and too useful. They need to find a way to bake the damage modifier somewhere in Herald traitline - maybe replace the damage increase based on the number of boons in Reinforced Potency with damage increase based on upkeep to make it base line - and give us another option for a good grandmaster major trait. Definitely need to be careful with PvE numbers here if they were to implement that, but at least for WvW herald damage is still not even that high with a baseline 10-15% damage modifier (Vindi has 25% in its traitline by the way).

Edited Sunday at 11:12 AM by idolin.2831

[arazoth.7290]

2 hours ago, idolin.2831 said:

Except Shield is terrible, tried it but the root on shield 5 is unbearable. I'm not sure if they would buff Incensed Response either, that would also buff Power Vindi. I love the sword sword set but sword 3 has been buggy forever (although it's still quite good when it's not bugged out and combo'd with Impossible Odds), and sword 4 has been nerfed too many times. 

As for Forceful Persistence, realistically nobody is gonna use it even with the buff because Draconic Echo is too strong and too useful. They need to find a way to bake the damage modifier somewhere in Herald traitline - maybe replace the damage increase based on the number of boons in Reinforced Potency with damage increase based on upkeep to make it base line - and give us another option for a good grandmaster major trait. Definitely need to be careful with PvE numbers here if they were to implement that, but at least for WvW herald damage is still not even that high with a baseline 10-15% damage modifier (Vindi has 25% in its traitline by the way).

nty, I prefere if they rework that trait entirely...

A trait that forces to use upkeep to improve damage is horrible, just en encourages more auto attacks because less energy useage one everything else because of it... . 

[idolin.2831]

3 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

nty, I prefere if they rework that trait entirely...

A trait that forces to use upkeep to improve damage is horrible, just en encourages more auto attacks because less energy useage one everything else because of it... . 

I mean there are other traits that are reliant on upkeep too, and I think it's an interesting idea on paper, but I agree that I'm not the biggest fan of that either. Especially with how easier it is for Vindi to get the 25% damage modifier.

[Jobber.6348]

3 hours ago, idolin.2831 said:

Except Shield is terrible, tried it but the root on shield 5 is unbearable. I'm not sure if they would buff Incensed Response either, that would also buff Power Vindi. I love the sword sword set but sword 3 has been buggy forever (although it's still quite good when it's not bugged out and combo'd with Impossible Odds), and sword 4 has been nerfed too many times. 

As for Forceful Persistence, realistically nobody is gonna use it even with the buff because Draconic Echo is too strong and too useful. They need to find a way to bake the damage modifier somewhere in Herald traitline - maybe replace the damage increase based on the number of boons in Reinforced Potency with damage increase based on upkeep to make it base line - and give us another option for a good grandmaster major trait. Definitely need to be careful with PvE numbers here if they were to implement that, but at least for WvW herald damage is still not even that high with a baseline 10-15% damage modifier (Vindi has 25% in its traitline by the way).

People might be more inclined to try Forceful Persistence if it wasn't directly competing with Draconic Echo. It's the fact that it rests in the same GM tier which makes Forceful Persistence more of a niche PvE DPS trait, which DPS Herald builds run as their GM option for a rather respectable damage increase while DPSing because all they do is Flip on facets and AA for ridiculous damage. As someone who enjoys LI options, I don't think they should take this away from PvE players. 

Arguably what really needs to be reworked is Elder's Respite. Elder's Respite granting stronger Regen is actually great but its ICD effect is straight up poor. It should be reworked to additionally reduce incoming Damage Condition Duration while you have Regeneration. That would make it an excellent choice to compete with Rising Momentum which is the defacto best trait in that tier.

As for your Shield comment: if we're talking about competitive then you obviously need to practice with it more. Shield is actually an extremely strong anti focus tool which can win you duels on node, roaming, outnumbered etc. Previously it was never considered because Staff being the only swap meant gimping all your damage potential when you use Shield. Now with GS filling the damage and Shortbow also being on the table for an alternative damage approach, Shield is solid for baiting out burst damage from enemies, especially against Willbenders and Power Mesmers who aren't paying attention since they of all people have little or no unblockables to help them facilitate a burst. 

This combined with the ability to give you 1 stack Aegis and Protection for not only buffing up Reinforced Potency but letting you prebuff before going for the kill is something you can plan around. Ever since Offhand sword has been left in a rather clunky state, Shield or Axe has been experimented with to see if anything can be worked out. The only build that wants to run Dual Swords anymore are those that wants to run Staff, which gives them much more burst play with Swords but also very weak pressure when they are forced on the defensive and have to swap to Staff. In modern Gw2 with all these busted powercreep specs, being pushed onto the defensive is way too easy. 
 

 

Edited Sunday at 02:49 PM by Jobber.6348

[arazoth.7290]

6 hours ago, idolin.2831 said:

I mean there are other traits that are reliant on upkeep too, and I think it's an interesting idea on paper, but I agree that I'm not the biggest fan of that either. Especially with how easier it is for Vindi to get the 25% damage modifier.

on paper, in practice nope 

[idolin.2831]

10 hours ago, Jobber.6348 said:

People might be more inclined to try Forceful Persistence if it wasn't directly competing with Draconic Echo. It's the fact that it rests in the same GM tier which makes Forceful Persistence more of a niche PvE DPS trait, which DPS Herald builds run as their GM option for a rather respectable damage increase while DPSing because all they do is Flip on facets and AA for ridiculous damage. As someone who enjoys LI options, I don't think they should take this away from PvE players. 

For sure LI options should exist, but isn't Elevated Compassion somewhat the same mechanic but better? In a group you can just flip on facets or Impossible Odds and give group quickness and AA (and correct me if I'm wrong but I thought Power Quickness Herald is more popular and sought after than pure DPS Power Herald), solo it gives self perma quickness so it's also better than 12-15% damage modifier. It seems to me Forceful Persistence is an inferior option in all game modes.

10 hours ago, Jobber.6348 said:

Arguably what really needs to be reworked is Elder's Respite. Elder's Respite granting stronger Regen is actually great but its ICD effect is straight up poor. It should be reworked to additionally reduce incoming Damage Condition Duration while you have Regeneration. That would make it an excellent choice to compete with Rising Momentum which is the defacto best trait in that tier.

Love the suggestion.

10 hours ago, Jobber.6348 said:

As for your Shield comment: if we're talking about competitive then you obviously need to practice with it more. Shield is actually an extremely strong anti focus tool which can win you duels on node, roaming, outnumbered etc. Previously it was never considered because Staff being the only swap meant gimping all your damage potential when you use Shield. Now with GS filling the damage and Shortbow also being on the table for an alternative damage approach, Shield is solid for baiting out burst damage from enemies, especially against Willbenders and Power Mesmers who aren't paying attention since they of all people have little or no unblockables to help them facilitate a burst. 

This combined with the ability to give you 1 stack Aegis and Protection for not only buffing up Reinforced Potency but letting you prebuff before going for the kill is something you can plan around. Ever since Offhand sword has been left in a rather clunky state, Shield or Axe has been experimented with to see if anything can be worked out. The only build that wants to run Dual Swords anymore are those that wants to run Staff, which gives them much more burst play with Swords but also very weak pressure when they are forced on the defensive and have to swap to Staff. In modern Gw2 with all these busted powercreep specs, being pushed onto the defensive is way too easy. 

I only do WvW, but obviously you're right, shield can work with enough practice - I see Tubby two ton (popular WvW power herald back in the days) use shield every time I run into him, and he's a super good rev. Personally I just don't like the root on shield 5, solo roaming with it is fine but in bigger fights/cloud fights I just find it very easy to use shield 5 and then get caught out of place. 

So far I've tried Swords/Staff, Swords/GS, Sword+Shield/GS, GS/Staff, but none of them clicked until I tried GS/Hammer. Hammer despite the nerfs in WvW is still really solid - Hammer 4 does decent damage and blocks projectile briefly, Hammer 3 and 5 have so much potential due to their delay nature. It's quite fun precasting Hammer 5 on myself and watch thieves and willbenders port themselves into the CC, and then I hammer 3 on myself again because some willbenders just keep on attacking the target without knowing what they're doing (which I'm guilty of when I'm on willbender because it is just that easy and strong). Shoutout to Homage for the Hammer gameplay.

[Jobber.6348]

1 hour ago, idolin.2831 said:

For sure LI options should exist, but isn't Elevated Compassion somewhat the same mechanic but better? In a group you can just flip on facets or Impossible Odds and give group quickness and AA (and correct me if I'm wrong but I thought Power Quickness Herald is more popular and sought after than pure DPS Power Herald), solo it gives self perma quickness so it's also better than 12-15% damage modifier. It seems to me Forceful Persistence is an inferior option in all game modes.

No, talking about Power builds, as in LI DPS builds. That means if for any reason the Herald player has to fill a DPS role and not a boon DPS role, they will switch to Forceful Persistence instead to DPS and let other people handle Quickness. The DPS increase is marginal but it's still better than overcapping Quickness when you can be doing more damage instead. Yes, they should rightfully be swapping to Vindicator but if they are using LI due to physical issues, I don't think the option should be taken from them. 

That being said, I also said it could probably be moved so it doesn't share the same tier as Draconic Echoes and Elevated Compassion. If it were moved to Master tier and Hardened Persistence was moved to GM instead, you will find it a net buff to Herald, both DPS and BoonDPS, as now they can run Forceful together with Elevated, or Draconic if they are DPS (remember, Draconic Echoes empowers Facet of Might to give strike damage bonus) 

 

 

1 hour ago, idolin.2831 said:

So far I've tried Swords/Staff, Swords/GS, Sword+Shield/GS, GS/Staff, but none of them clicked until I tried GS/Hammer. Hammer despite the nerfs in WvW is still really solid - Hammer 4 does decent damage and blocks projectile briefly, Hammer 3 and 5 have so much potential due to their delay nature. It's quite fun precasting Hammer 5 on myself and watch thieves and willbenders port themselves into the CC, and then I hammer 3 on myself again because some willbenders just keep on attacking the target without knowing what they're doing (which I'm guilty of when I'm on willbender because it is just that easy and strong). Shoutout to Homage for the Hammer gameplay.

Ignore the doomers, Hammer still has worth in WvW. It's just dead in PvP because the restrictions there make the new adjustments hard to find any purchase. But in WvW, especially if you're playing things like Renegade or Vindicator, the fact you're slinging 1.5k - 2k damage per auto into people's faces from 1200 range is a whole other experience. I personally play Core Hammer from time to time, it's somewhat fun. 

[idolin.2831]

5 minutes ago, Jobber.6348 said:

No, talking about Power builds, as in LI DPS builds. That means if for any reason the Herald player has to fill a DPS role and not a boon DPS role, they will switch to Forceful Persistence instead to DPS and let other people handle Quickness. The DPS increase is marginal but it's still better than overcapping Quickness when you can be doing more damage instead. Yes, they should rightfully be swapping to Vindicator but if they are using LI due to physical issues, I don't think the option should be taken from them. 

That being said, I also said it could probably be moved so it doesn't share the same tier as Draconic Echoes and Elevated Compassion. If it were moved to Master tier and Hardened Persistence was moved to GM instead, you will find it a net buff to Herald, both DPS and BoonDPS, as now they can run Forceful together with Elevated, or Draconic if they are DPS (remember, Draconic Echoes empowers Facet of Might to give strike damage bonus) 

Gotcha, yeah that's a fair point and I agree.

6 minutes ago, Jobber.6348 said:

Ignore the doomers, Hammer still has worth in WvW. It's just dead in PvP because the restrictions there make the new adjustments hard to find any purchase. But in WvW, especially if you're playing things like Renegade or Vindicator, the fact you're slinging 1.5k - 2k damage per auto into people's faces from 1200 range is a whole other experience. I personally play Core Hammer from time to time, it's somewhat fun. 

I have been on Willbender so I recently just tried hammer for roaming for the first time ever and first time I touched rev hammer since 2018 when I was still zerging too. The sped up auto is super nice even when I'm on Herald, and the rest of the skill set has their place too. 

[Buran.3796]

   French Wurms had in the roster a hybrid Herald with Tyrant amulet and spear + staff and was able to wind vs Rank 55 in the first rounds but they lost in the rematch by big gap in the finals. With the patch of October 8th heading to barely buff non meta builds, spear underperforming and hammer mostly deleted from PvP, I don't think Rev will came back to the meta until at least Q1 2025...

[Jobber.6348]

17 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

   French Wurms had in the roster a hybrid Herald with Tyrant amulet and spear + staff and was able to wind vs Rank 55 in the first rounds but they lost in the rematch by big gap in the finals. With the patch of October 8th heading to barely buff non meta builds, spear underperforming and hammer mostly deleted from PvP, I don't think Rev will came back to the meta until at least Q1 2025...

0.5 to 0.7 coefficient for Sword 2 is all they felt MH Sword needed to be good... well let's see.

Chilling Isolation in its current state is quite capable of hitting very juicy numbers in both WvW and PvP,  provided your Vuln application and Damage boosts align perfectly and you can land a double crit isolated burst. It can hit upwards of 6k to 7k in PvP last I tried it on a 10 might burst into someone with 15 Vuln. In WvW it does a little higher damage.

Upping the coefficient could very well make MH Sword strong but realistically if Herald could make a comeback off buffing 1 weapon skill, they would have been back ages ago when GS was made accessible to Herald. 

What I'll most likely be doing is run Sword Axe and be a Sword 2 hit and run. Axe 4 is perfect for what I call "safe engage" because unlike OH Sword, you can miss your Axe 4 and it denies your gap close, meaning you can defensively use it without being forced out of position if the skill fails. And if the skill hits, you get confirmed burst damage which you then follow up with Sword 2 before popping your Swiftness/IO and running. To round up the set, probably running either Shortbow to kite with or GS to up the pressure. Leadership Relic and Glint TN to cover all the Condi cleanse needs. In PvP this matters much less but in WvW you may need to run Staff to keep up with heavy condition spammers. 

[arazoth.7290]

1 hour ago, Buran.3796 said:

   French Wurms had in the roster a hybrid Herald with Tyrant amulet and spear + staff and was able to wind vs Rank 55 in the first rounds but they lost in the rematch by big gap in the finals. With the patch of October 8th heading to barely buff non meta builds, spear underperforming and hammer mostly deleted from PvP, I don't think Rev will came back to the meta until at least Q1 2025...

Rev is more then decent atm enough for ranked (not only talking about push mode currently) and even renegade is decent atm to use. Also spear in pvp isn't underperforming but isn't OP either, I rather have them stay of it aside making skill 5, 240 radius QoL change. It doesn't need to be OP for 1 season or a half only to be nerfed and making it really not playable weapon again...

Although renegade is getting buffed now in a weird spot. I rather had them make the F skills so good as cost free and better utility making it worthwhile to use and adding something to renegade. And kalla skills being able to place everywhere without getting an error. A few traits maybe re seen and then renegade is fine. But direct buffs to kalla stance aren't needed 

 

[Jobber.6348]

3 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Rev is more then decent atm enough for ranked (not only talking about push mode currently) and even renegade is decent atm to use. Also spear in pvp isn't underperforming but isn't OP either, I rather have them stay of it aside making skill 5, 240 radius QoL change. It doesn't need to be OP for 1 season or a half only to be nerfed and making it really not playable weapon again...

Although renegade is getting buffed now in a weird spot. I rather had them make the F skills so good as cost free and better utility making it worthwhile to use and adding something to renegade. And kalla skills being able to place everywhere without getting an error. A few traits maybe re seen and then renegade is fine. But direct buffs to kalla stance aren't needed 

 

The entire problem is the fact that the skill is still coded to be a summoned entity which means you have to consider both the LoS of placement and having enough space to place a player sized entity to summon. 

Should have just made them Wells kitten if the summoned entity is just for flavour now and doesn't even bodyblock anymore.

[arazoth.7290]

2 minutes ago, Jobber.6348 said:

 

Should have just made them Wells kitten if the summoned entity is just for flavour now and doesn't even bodyblock anymore.

Jup, suggested same once too. If that is reliable placeable, a lot will be instantly better due to better environmental play

Spoiler

ps. check part of my homestead 😁

 

Edited 20 hours ago by arazoth.7290

[Buran.3796]

22 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

 Also spear in pvp isn't underperforming but isn't OP either, I rather have them stay of it aside making skill 5, 240 radius QoL change. It doesn't need to be OP for 1 season or a half only to be nerfed and making it really not playable weapon again...

  I'm not seing it. It doesn't have any defense or decent mobility which leads to either run agressive builds with low re-sustain or ability to disengage OR to pair it with staff or shield for defenses which will throw your damage under the bus. You will compete against  Spellbreaker/Willbender/Virtuoso which bring similar teamfight damage and cc but have better mobility, re-sustain and can do real damage at range.

   So far I keep playing hammer Vindi and the more I try other options in the Rev landscape the worst they feel to me.