Cele Nerf Is Good - But don't get overzealous. We do like variety.

[Lyralia.2945]

I can't say the cele nerf is a bad idea. Needed to happen. Things couldn't have continued how they were.

Sidenote: I do think there is a (possible) simple solution to bridge some of the gaps that might occur due to some builds/classes that were actually intended for the stat choice - maybe introduce another stat that does include the other stats but with lowered stat total so they have two options. Cele -2 stat and Cele with all stat but less totals across the board. Come up with a new name for it, if so. Then the cele players can't really complain, I'd say. They can already just mix gear though so *shrug*. Not really my priority.

---

More importantly:

However, I do like build freedom in general and if I wanted the devs and meta to tell me how to make my build, I would be in spvp where you can generally tell what your opponent is running as soon as you see their class.

... So if other stats and build diversity start to disappear due to being overzealous with the new stat-per-mode tech, I will jet to other games. As it is, I already find it difficult to play the same class or build for long in this since I've been playing this game for a very long time so I get bored pretty fast. I don't get how people can play the same build/class for years.

I just wanted WvW fixed. Cele stuff is a step in the right direction. However, I do NOT want it to become boring, smooth brain sPvP. This is coming from someone who would technically benefit from being able to burst every target instantly out of stealth if everyone was glass.

I GREATLY enjoy the idea that I could be running a wide variety of things, and so could my opponent, with defensive or offensive playstyles. This keeps the game fresh with creativity. Cele made that far less likely though due to imbalance, so I support the nerf.

Past this point though, I would prefer CMC just doesn't mettle with anything because they will only make it worse like most things over the years. If the nerdsweats start complaining about more and more things and those things start to get unreasonable, kindly ignore them like most people in their lives do.

WvW lets you choose where you are, when you are there, and what you are doing there. We do overall like freedom as a playerbase. So don't start yeeting builds just because this was a homerun. Please understand WHY it was a homerun. Do not make the playerbase have to graph this out with crayons.

Edited Tuesday at 10:45 AM by Lyralia.2945

[Riba.3271]

Nah, more changes is good. Stale is stale. Minstrel nerf waiting room.

Edited Tuesday at 11:34 AM by Riba.3271

[Lyralia.2945]

If people are having trouble killing a minstrel person with their pathetic damage, consider revising your movement, skills, build or that the problem may exist between the keyboard and chair. If you feel entitled to winning vs larger groups without proper movement or 1vX tactics, there already exists a game mode where you can fight defenseless enemies and be the hero.

I like the challenge of having enemies that can actually adapt and do more than hurr durr damage. It feels more realistic and complete as a world, then.  I am not saying support and boonballs don't annoy me.. they do and they are far too safe and comfortable in some situations. Eliminating entire stat sets (other than cele, with its laughable ability to be even more stats than it was on paper, realistically) isn't the way forward though as far as fixing that. Making Anet actually put in effort and fix the problem is the solution. If they can make the mess, they can clean it up. No easy outs that hurt the game.

Also, allowing Anet to cut corners as far as balancing things has always historically gone so SUPER well for us. Would you seriously trust Anet in a surgery of that magnitude? They'd end up amputating your leg and even if its a diseased leg, thats a leg.

Edited Tuesday at 12:39 PM by Lyralia.2945

[Dawdler.8521]

Cele even with the nerf is the antithesis of variety.

[Bleikopf.2491]

15 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Cele even with the nerf is the antithesis of variety.

Cele is variety. It has a variety of all the stats you would ever need! /s

[Lucy.3728]

3 hours ago, Lyralia.2945 said:

I can't say the cele nerf is a bad idea. Needed to happen. Things couldn't have continued how they were.

I can't say the cele nerf is a good idea. Didn't need to happen. Things could have continued how they were.

I really, really liked playing cele meta.
I didn't like the minstrel boon ball meta before.
But it's getting back to boring.
Cele was fun (minstrel isn't) - so you are right, it ought to be nerfed at some point.

[Riba.3271]

2 hours ago, Lyralia.2945 said:

f people are having trouble killing a minstrel person with their pathetic damage,

Seems you don't understand that we are heading back to 3 people running in minstrel per party again. So much build variety.

Ideal gear balance is one where people mix stats, which is true for DPS builds right now as when you play DPS you can swap between Marauder, Dragon, Valkyrie, Berserker, Knight, Captain, Grieving and Cele to find a good feeling combination. Building support builds is very lacking in comparison: Why would you support optimal builds being 100% minstrel if you hate the inflexibility of sPvP amulet system?

Edited Tuesday at 02:33 PM by Riba.3271

[graishak.5406]

2 hours ago, Lyralia.2945 said:

If people are having trouble killing a minstrel person with their pathetic damage, consider revising your movement, skills, build or that the problem may exist between the keyboard and chair. If you feel entitled to winning vs larger groups without proper movement or 1vX tactics, there already exists a game mode where you can fight defenseless enemies and be the hero.

I like the challenge of having enemies that can actually adapt and do more than hurr durr damage. It feels more realistic and complete as a world, then.  I am not saying support and boonballs don't annoy me.. they do and they are far too safe and comfortable in some situations. Eliminating entire stat sets (other than cele, with its laughable ability to be even more stats than it was on paper, realistically) isn't the way forward though as far as fixing that. Making Anet actually put in effort and fix the problem is the solution. If they can make the mess, they can clean it up. No easy outs that hurt the game.

Also, allowing Anet to cut corners as far as balancing things has always historically gone so SUPER well for us. Would you seriously trust Anet in a surgery of that magnitude? They'd end up amputating your leg and even if its a diseased leg, thats a leg.

dont you think there is a bit of nuance inbetween "i can kill x" and "i cant kill x"?
i am pretty sure i can kill most minstrel builds apart from heal vindi when isolated, it just takes time and cooldowns.
in a group, it is generally a waste of time trying to interact with a minstrel support over a dps player. if they are being properly supported by allies and i am being counterpressured, that is nigh impossible.
so that build may give great support without making tradeoffs and i cant really focus it, how is that good design? 
and if ppl make me play support myself i am also bored cause i know i wont die unless i mess up hard, otherwise i can ignore most damage.

however i am perfectly fine with tank stats - if anet ever wants to nerf selfish tank stats, i am against that

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

Ministels is and always has been BIS for most healers in the game since it ever came out with HOT. The temporary sequiter to celestials was just noobs not understanding how this game works that think “more stats = better” skibidirot

if there was ever something to change it should have been ministrels since vitality+toughness+healing is very very strong defense, and it’s been BIS for ages.

at the same time minstrels was created when damage was also very high pre 2020 nerf. When 2020 happened, damage dropped and tanky builds were inadvertently buffed which is why it’s been coasting for a long time since then (similar stuff happened in spvp)

in other words: the same arguments that got celestial nerfed don’t apply to ministrels so the noobs have to think of better explanations for how to deal with it. Remember ministrels is only a 300 point difference from a 3 stat…it’s not that much.

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 05:50 PM by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[calva.2914]

Cele was only the first nerf. In before several other stat combos get nerfed and people are unhappy again. 

[Hotride.2187]

10 hours ago, Riba.3271 said:

Nah, more changes is good. Stale is stale. Minstrel nerf waiting room.

Sure sure, 3 supports party is just not there yet. Make it 5, then we can sing and dance and not die together.

[Sereath.1428]

Old-Cele, TB, Minstrels, etc, were not a problem at all back when we had good damage to punish people, but that was before feb 2020.
Since then, everything has really gone down the drain.

Now they will keep reinventing the wheel and continue to kitten things up if this "new tech" gets out of hand. Prove me wrong ANET.
The sPvP system with pruned and gone amulets (even the Knight amulet is gone 💀) is omega garbage. It has no place in an MMO.
Marauder there is largely unused, aka dead content, because the stats spread is too thin. No wonder why 90% of the decent and above players simply go berserker + defensive rune. And other 4 stat amulets have even less stats than 3 stat. It's so kittening awful.

Mfers of extremes here.
Cele needed to go back to how it was initially designed. But that doesnt mean that a 4 stat set with maybe 10% more stats than a 3 stat one is as broken as Cele with around 70% more stats. Bruh, like what? "Oh yeah? Cele was bad for the game? So is Marauder! Nerf it all." - the average pseudo game designer here
Asinine mentality.

 

Edited Wednesday at 03:10 AM by Sereath.1428