Classic Anet with overnerfs.

[Zaret.1450]

Revenant needs a complete mecanic rework, i mean its the only class with a mecanic that punishes more than it rewards, some might say thief is similar but come on, noone that has played thief and rev can say that, if weapon skills were only on cd, and leyend skills only on energy, then we would have a much better time playing and devs balancing and creating things on rev.

Also vindi trait line needs changes too.

[Flowki.7194]

13 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

The point is to test that baseline, it would be better than the 50 we have currently.

There are ways to alleviate most weaknesses of Ventari, case in point. Being stunned with my build had no consequences most of the time because if I swap to Ventari fresh I have resistance by default and can just stun my enemy, otherwise I never get stunned because I know how to manage the stability and if I did get stunned it was proper counter play despite the possible CC spam I could provide.

It took a very specific kind of build to deal with that high uptime Stability on ventari which is not good, now it obviously doesn't but thats not because players got better, they just made it unplayable rather than changing for player to use their brain figuring it out.

Think about it in real time for any elites and not just core, if I EE fresh, I have 5 sec stab and 20% that will be 35% in 3 seconds, then I can have 7 sec of stab which in real time will be enough to get another 5 seconds of stab at 35% because it takes 7 seconds to reach 35%. That's 3 stuns with more than 10 seconds stab that I can just safely switch back to my other legend if need be.

To alleviate that they would need to put a CD on EE which is a big no no, changing the boons duration is definitely a big nono, adding 5% energy to 40 however would allow for some counter play without leaving the player useless.

So Stunbreak or not, you can do really strong things with the Tablet and not having one is not a valid way to ignore the possible scenario above, because that was without ancient echo, with ancient echo you could do soooo much more EE it's not fun to play against.

Aside from you and me, how many people played core rev? Thats telling.

 

I understand your point, but again.. the stab uptime on core rev was a none issue, see above (the stab stacks/duration was too generous.. thats what they needed to look at). There were also a number of counters to it, like necros well timing curruption. We should not be nerfing ventari becuase other specs don't know how it works, and don't use their tools to deal with it. I lost countless duels to decent necros who boon checked and currupted properly, I got my kitten handed to me countless times by DE/axe thieves who understood basic weapon swap mechanics. Core rev also did not do well during prolonged gank.. any spec with unblockables shreded you, unless you could hard LOS abuse in group fights. Vindi support had better escape, but that escape came at the cost of team utility, and core revs better team utility came at a cost of escape. Thats a perfectly fine working trade off?

 

Being able to give your team good uptime of stab/resistance was vital in team support, and also lowered your dmg/other output to a bare minimum, thats a fair trade off. Raw healing is not enough.. thats why tempest was meta, because of the auras, healing is a top up that is only useful in cunjunction with other mitigation. Furthermore, giving your team stab is only the first step, they have to actually do something with that stab, like not die to a WB/virt/scrapper nuke, which many still did. Its not like you give them a free win, not at all.

 

In terms of dueling, I did ok for what is a hybrid support/dps spec. It was not as strong as SPB, not as strong as a good mace untamed/druid, and could just barely keep up with a good condi ele (felt kind of 50/50). Be it core, herald, or vindi.. there were no ventari "duelists" out there wrecking.. just me, you, and a few others, getting by on a "good" yet underated legend. The bloat in ventari was always about stacks/duration of stab, nothing else was an issue for me. You mentioned CCing people after being stunned, that is not an issue. People get CC'd all the time, and use a garunteed stunbreak that often comes with stab on use. What you had on ventari was a "chance" to CC the guy who just CCd you, as he may have had stab-aeg etc. That was more a fact people didn't know how ventari worked, a nice perk of using a vastly underplayed legend. At the same time, they could have just put a better tell on expultion, if they don't dodge it, fk em?

 

Also a really important loss here is res power. If not on ventari, or at lower energy, I would swap to and instantly use echo, apply stab to myself (trying to dodge in while doing so to not get CCd, and also trying to hit them with the expulsion), and then start manual ressing. I then had enough energy to try and CC cleavers once more. You can't do that now.. and it was not an easy thing to do anyway. However, when done right, and with some luck, I picked people up even with 3 enemy trying to cleave. That was not common ofc.. but it was far more skill indexed than the stab stacked ranged res bs from ele/gaurd. Now rev has extremely poor res ability. Its just dead as support, on almost every level. Im not even joking, thief support is probably better now, with constant protection/barrier for team.. its just dull af to play.

Edited October 15 by Flowki.7194

[Aeolus.3615]

On 10/9/2024 at 3:56 PM, arazoth.7290 said:

The irony when you can still win 1v1's with centaur stance on renegade and even more fun winning 1v2's willbenders 😅

don't forget that  alot of players are flocking to  Willbender due how easy is to burst targets with it(2 can kill easily in a burst 5 to 8 players and it seams Anet is ok with it, there are certain group counters to it well...kinda), still  while with revenant we have to put alot of effort to actually not get bursted , all I keep saying keep kiting and blocking and poke it when u have a chance 🙂

Elementalist should hold easily benders far more easily tho they have the mechanics for that.

Classes with alot of mobility should barely be no touched by sillybenders  if the players have good response and awareness, and there's high mobility classes that block for ages lol.

 

My issue with benders is the same to some classes.. they can be macroed.

Edited October 16 by Aeolus.3615

[idolin.2831]

45 minutes ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

don't forget that  alot of players are flocking to  Willbender due how easy is to burst targets with it(2 can kill easily in a burst 5 to 8 players and it seams Anet is ok with it, there are certain group counters to it well...kinda), still  while with revenant we have to put alot of effort to actually not get bursted , all I keep saying keep kiting and blocking and poke it when u have a chance 🙂

Elementalist should hold easily benders far more easily tho they have the mechanics for that.

Classes with alot of mobility should barely be no touched by sillybenders  if the players have good response and awareness, and there's high mobility classes that block for ages lol.

 

My issue with benders is the same to some classes.. they can be macroed.

There is literally no need to macro willbender, it doesn't have 0 cast time skills like mesmers. Plus the rotation is dead simple - sword 5 + JI + F1 + sword 4/spear 5+3/GS 4 + 2/Whirling Light. I have been bursting people down easily with no macro at all.

Unless you actually have proof on willbenders using macro or you're using it yourself, you're spewing BS. 

[Aeolus.3615]

6 minutes ago, idolin.2831 said:

There is literally no need to macro willbender, it doesn't have 0 cast time skills like mesmers. Plus the rotation is dead simple - sword 5 + JI + F1 + sword 4/spear 5+3/GS 4 + 2/Whirling Light. I have been bursting people down easily with no macro at all.

Unless you actually have proof on willbenders using macro or you're using it yourself, you're spewing BS. 

indeed compared with mesmers and few others  there's a huge diference, maybe ur right a person to burst that fastlike some other specs can reach  with Willbender would have to reach the package editing and thats a dark tabu here to talk about.

 

[Shao.7236]

On 10/15/2024 at 10:50 AM, Flowki.7194 said:

Aside from you and me, how many people played core rev? Thats telling.

It doesn't get a fair chance really, knowing what you're up against definitely is important.

On 10/15/2024 at 10:50 AM, Flowki.7194 said:

I understand your point, but again.. the stab uptime on core rev was a none issue, see above (the stab stacks/duration was too generous.. thats what they needed to look at). There were also a number of counters to it, like necros well timing curruption. We should not be nerfing ventari becuase other specs don't know how it works, and don't use their tools to deal with it. I lost countless duels to decent necros who boon checked and currupted properly, I got my kitten handed to me countless times by DE/axe thieves who understood basic weapon swap mechanics. Core rev also did not do well during prolonged gank.. any spec with unblockables shreded you, unless you could hard LOS abuse in group fights. Vindi support had better escape, but that escape came at the cost of team utility, and core revs better team utility came at a cost of escape. Thats a perfectly fine working trade off?

Well being half the legend cooldown worth of stability feels pretty strong given how free it felt at 35%, if I missed one then I have another ready up pretty fast. It's really about balancing the value here, 50 definitely doesn't do it. Just to say I was quite untouchable and even when I was being boon stripped, I either had another in reserve with it's CC or I could legend swap.

I can agree about unblockables if you had no weakness available which is why Mace felt appropriate when not using Jalis.

Thing is escape hardly matters if you're a bunker. Rev has truly never been good at escape without a target to PT to, Vindi really makes all the difference with leap and dodge but it's support utility is also significant, esp urn because you can halve damage instantly if you're being focused.

It's hard to say that Vindi has any trade off when if you min max it you're basically every core legends combined at once.

On 10/15/2024 at 10:50 AM, Flowki.7194 said:

Being able to give your team good uptime of stab/resistance was vital in team support, and also lowered your dmg/other output to a bare minimum, thats a fair trade off. Raw healing is not enough.. thats why tempest was meta, because of the auras, healing is a top up that is only useful in cunjunction with other mitigation. Furthermore, giving your team stab is only the first step, they have to actually do something with that stab, like not die to a WB/virt/scrapper nuke, which many still did. Its not like you give them a free win, not at all.

Not that I disagree with, if you go Jalis/Ventari full support then play debuffs and RotG right, a lot of the time if not all the time the enemy waste entire rows of skills just to get one target that you could full heal easily after, it also dependent how close people sticked together because arguably it's not all skills and buffs. The radius of Tempest/Guardian are much bigger and easier to deal with vs Revenant smaller support, people that sticks to node unironically makes it really easy to get near millions of healing before they nerfed it.

On 10/15/2024 at 10:50 AM, Flowki.7194 said:

In terms of dueling, I did ok for what is a hybrid support/dps spec. It was not as strong as SPB, not as strong as a good mace untamed/druid, and could just barely keep up with a good condi ele (felt kind of 50/50). Be it core, herald, or vindi.. there were no ventari "duelists" out there wrecking.. just me, you, and a few others, getting by on a "good" yet underated legend. The bloat in ventari was always about stacks/duration of stab, nothing else was an issue for me. You mentioned CCing people after being stunned, that is not an issue. People get CC'd all the time, and use a garunteed stunbreak that often comes with stab on use. What you had on ventari was a "chance" to CC the guy who just CCd you, as he may have had stab-aeg etc. That was more a fact people didn't know how ventari worked, a nice perk of using a vastly underplayed legend. At the same time, they could have just put a better tell on expultion, if they don't dodge it, fk em?

Could just be our builds being different, trying to stunlock me was really hard because I played with Stability Stunbreak with Mallyx on top of Ventari's, I was really precise with my weakness application if I played mace/axe against power builds and avoid contact if on Shortbow, I would wait and clear as many conditions possible since the healing was pretty high and rely on Mallyx resolution to make it easier to make peoples facerolls useless.

I would attack with Searing Fissure/Spiritcrush (preferrably on node) into CtA then EE which forced people to stunbreak away or take all the damage and even they tried to counter me the stability would make their CC's useless while they take the damage, this is all without mentioning the Relic of Akeem that would punish people who fight back inside my AoE if my Echoing Eruption/Sevenshot's hit because it's easy torment stacking.

All the Resistance I would get from just passively playing this healed for a ton as well, depending if you're Mace/Axe the torment on chill would also make applying confusion on CtA pretty easy but that 1 sec torment on Temporal Rift could also work if you miss the CtA all the while doing the same with EE to not allow punishes if you have no energy left on Mallyx.

Anything that I fought which had no cleanses or had no escapr potential basically easy freekill. Not to said you can't beat the latter if you play your skills good.

On 10/15/2024 at 10:50 AM, Flowki.7194 said:

Also a really important loss here is res power. If not on ventari, or at lower energy, I would swap to and instantly use echo, apply stab to myself (trying to dodge in while doing so to not get CCd, and also trying to hit them with the expulsion), and then start manual ressing. I then had enough energy to try and CC cleavers once more. You can't do that now.. and it was not an easy thing to do anyway. However, when done right, and with some luck, I picked people up even with 3 enemy trying to cleave. That was not common ofc.. but it was far more skill indexed than the stab stacked ranged res bs from ele/gaurd. Now rev has extremely poor res ability. Its just dead as support, on almost every level. Im not even joking, thief support is probably better now, with constant protection/barrier for team.. its just dull af to play.

Depending on what I have and  the enemy does there's 3 things I would do.

With Ventari/Jalis:

If I was properly ready for a res that is not full of poison or mega condition stack, on full support I would do Scepter 2 on target, 3 on downed and Shield 4 then deny stomps with EE for stab/resist passive healing then invoke tablet then Solace for protection on the downed and myself + range denial, if the person tries to focus on the stomp again, I would F2 for more EE stab/resist + CC then solace again, if the person keeps going I switch to Jalis for taunt to apply weakness from both road and legend swap on top of bonus barrier. At this rate if the person isn't up there's basically no helping.

With Ventari/Mallyx:

I would do the same as above with Ventari but if the enemy has Stability I'd debuff them with Banish then either CtA/Temporal Rift/Scorchshot. If they focus me, I can PA with Stability and fight back while they are still melting in my AoEs.

Idk what you were doing but to me this worked pretty well, not fool proof but it turned around a lot of fights if it was evenly numbered teamfights/rescuring.

Edited October 19 by Shao.7236

[arazoth.7290]

7 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

It doesn't get a fair chance really, knowing what you're up against definitely is important.

Well being half the legend cooldown worth of stability feels pretty strong given how free it felt at 35%, if I missed one then I have another ready up pretty fast. It's really about balancing the value here, 50 definitely doesn't do it. Just to say I was quite untouchable and even when I was being boon stripped, I either had another in reserve with it's CC or I could legend swap.

I can agree about unblockables if you had no weakness available which is why Mace felt appropriate when not using Jalis.

Thing is escape hardly matters if you're a bunker. Rev has truly never been good at escape without a target to PT to, Vindi really makes all the difference with leap and dodge but it's support utility is also significant, esp urn because you can halve damage instantly if you're being focused.

It's hard to say that Vindi has any trade off when if you min max it you're basically every core legends combined at once.

Not that I disagree with, if you go Jalis/Ventari full support then play debuffs and RotG right, a lot of the time if not all the time the enemy waste entire rows of skills just to get one target that you could full heal easily after, it also dependent how close people sticked together because arguably it's not all skills and buffs. The radius of Tempest/Guardian are much bigger and easier to deal with vs Revenant smaller support, people that sticks to node unironically makes it really easy to get near millions of healing before they nerfed it.

Could just be our builds being different, trying to stunlock me was really hard because I played with Stability Stunbreak with Mallyx on top of Ventari's, I was really precise with my weakness application if I played mace/axe against power builds and avoid contact if on Shortbow, I would wait and clear as many conditions possible since the healing was pretty high and rely on Mallyx resolution to make it easier to make peoples facerolls useless.

I would attack with Searing Fissure/Spiritcrush (preferrably on node) into CtA then EE which forced people to stunbreak away or take all the damage and even they tried to counter me the stability would make their CC's useless while they take the damage, this is all without mentioning the Relic of Akeem that would punish people who fight back inside my AoE if my Echoing Eruption/Sevenshot's hit because it's easy torment stacking.

All the Resistance I would get from just passively playing this healed for a ton as well, depending if you're Mace/Axe the torment on chill would also make applying confusion on CtA pretty easy but that 1 sec torment on Temporal Rift could also work if you miss the CtA all the while doing the same with EE to not allow punishes if you have no energy left on Mallyx.

Anything that I fought which had no cleanses or had no escapr potential basically easy freekill. Not to said you can't beat the latter if you play your skills good.

Depending on what I have and  the enemy does there's 3 things I would do.

With Ventari/Jalis:

If I was properly ready for a res that is not full of poison or mega condition stack, on full support I would do Scepter 2 on target, 3 on downed and Shield 4 then deny stomps with EE for stab/resist passive healing then invoke tablet then Solace for protection on the downed and myself + range denial, if the person tries to focus on the stomp again, I would F2 for more EE stab/resist + CC then solace again, if the person keeps going I switch to Jalis for taunt to apply weakness from both road and legend swap on top of bonus barrier. At this rate if the person isn't up there's basically no helping.

With Ventari/Mallyx:

I would do the same as above with Ventari but if the enemy has Stability I'd debuff them with Banish then either CtA/Temporal Rift/Scorchshot. If they focus me, I can PA with Stability and fight back while they are still melting in my AoEs.

Idk what you were doing but to me this worked pretty well, not fool proof but it turned around a lot of fights if it was evenly numbered teamfights/rescuring.

35 energy was the most balanced if no extra energy gain abilites are pressed like f skill core and vindi if traited. 

So in general 40 energy as inbetween amount for it to be balanced, instead of 50 energy which is overkill.

They should resee this and also the cleanse back to 5 seconds instead of ridiculous 10 seconds + natural harmony healing coëfficiënt upped to 1,5 instead of 1...

[Flowki.7194]

9 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

It doesn't get a fair chance really, knowing what you're up against definitely is important.

True enough, and to be honest some rev things could be better broadcast, like expulsion, and spear CC, even shortbow CC is not very obvious given it hits multiple, from good range.

 

9 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

Well being half the legend cooldown worth of stability feels pretty strong given how free it felt at 35%, if I missed one then I have another ready up pretty fast. It's really about balancing the value here, 50 definitely doesn't do it. Just to say I was quite untouchable and even when I was being boon stripped, I either had another in reserve with it's CC or I could legend swap.

I can agree about unblockables if you had no weakness available which is why Mace felt appropriate when not using Jalis.

Thing is escape hardly matters if you're a bunker. Rev has truly never been good at escape without a target to PT to, Vindi really makes all the difference with leap and dodge but it's support utility is also significant, esp urn because you can halve damage instantly if you're being focused.

It's hard to say that Vindi has any trade off when if you min max it you're basically every core legends combined at once.

I didn't play core ventari as bunker, it was entirely made for group utility/support+boon rip etc. It was a bonus that it did ok damge, which allowed it to 1v1 quite well all things considered. The thing to remember here is nobody likes playing full support solo Q, it just doesnt work. Hybrid makes it tolerable, becuase you can do some dmg, do some side noding if the MMR throws you bad dps to support.

 

9 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

Not that I disagree with, if you go Jalis/Ventari full support then play debuffs and RotG right, a lot of the time if not all the time the enemy waste entire rows of skills just to get one target that you could full heal easily after, it also dependent how close people sticked together because arguably it's not all skills and buffs. The radius of Tempest/Guardian are much bigger and easier to deal with vs Revenant smaller support, people that sticks to node unironically makes it really easy to get near millions of healing before they nerfed it.

Well thats exactly it. Playing actual full rev support was not easy at all. There were many mechanics to consider, along with a lot of micro manedgement/team mate prioritisaion etc etc. Nobody played this kitten.. and it was hard to play well. Maybe you take that for granted, but honestly, rev full support makes ele support feel like core gaurd. Hybrid was also just as challenging, knowing when to do damage, when to support etc. Taking on that kind of role should be rewarding, and it was. Now it isnt, becuase some streamer?

 

9 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

Could just be our builds being different, trying to stunlock me was really hard because I played with Stability Stunbreak with Mallyx on top of Ventari's, I was really precise with my weakness application if I played mace/axe against power builds and avoid contact if on Shortbow, I would wait and clear as many conditions possible since the healing was pretty high and rely on Mallyx resolution to make it easier to make peoples facerolls useless.

I would attack with Searing Fissure/Spiritcrush (preferrably on node) into CtA then EE which forced people to stunbreak away or take all the damage and even they tried to counter me the stability would make their CC's useless while they take the damage, this is all without mentioning the Relic of Akeem that would punish people who fight back inside my AoE if my Echoing Eruption/Sevenshot's hit because it's easy torment stacking.

All the Resistance I would get from just passively playing this healed for a ton as well, depending if you're Mace/Axe the torment on chill would also make applying confusion on CtA pretty easy but that 1 sec torment on Temporal Rift could also work if you miss the CtA all the while doing the same with EE to not allow punishes if you have no energy left on Mallyx.

Anything that I fought which had no cleanses or had no escapr potential basically easy freekill. Not to said you can't beat the latter if you play your skills good.

My build mostly focused on group CC+demonqueen, to rip boons, take pressure off team mates, and add poison pressure if there were enemy support/high sustain specs. It did that role very well, if left alone it had a big impact.. but why shouldnt it? If focused, and things jumped with stab, and especially unblockables, it folded unless team mates peeled good. It had plenty counter play. The condi side of things, sure it had decent damage, yet if somebody else was on support with condi cleanse, that damage was more than manedgable. You also have to consider many dps specs also have decent condi cleanse themselves, while things like WB just perma spam resolotion. There are some counters on both ends, for example, I use to be able to dominate certain specs with poor condi cleanse. On the flip side, some specs such as mace ranger, have so much cleanse they can pretty much face tank everything, and still win.

 

9 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

Depending on what I have and  the enemy does there's 3 things I would do.

With Ventari/Jalis:

If I was properly ready for a res that is not full of poison or mega condition stack, on full support I would do Scepter 2 on target, 3 on downed and Shield 4 then deny stomps with EE for stab/resist passive healing then invoke tablet then Solace for protection on the downed and myself + range denial, if the person tries to focus on the stomp again, I would F2 for more EE stab/resist + CC then solace again, if the person keeps going I switch to Jalis for taunt to apply weakness from both road and legend swap on top of bonus barrier. At this rate if the person isn't up there's basically no helping.

With Ventari/Mallyx:

I would do the same as above with Ventari but if the enemy has Stability I'd debuff them with Banish then either CtA/Temporal Rift/Scorchshot. If they focus me, I can PA with Stability and fight back while they are still melting in my AoEs.

Idk what you were doing but to me this worked pretty well, not fool proof but it turned around a lot of fights if it was evenly numbered teamfights/rescuring.

 

Yes, but look at the level of understanding, boon checking, and risk needed to pull this stuff off. Then an ele/gaurd just pops stab and range resses. Which is more healthy for the game? I actually loved ressing people on core, some of the plays that had to be made, boon ripping, jumping between legends, dodging cleave, then touch resing again etc. Picking up a team mate with 2 cleavers, or 1 melee+1range.. it was the support virsion of a DPS winning a 2v1.

Edited October 19 by Flowki.7194

[Shao.7236]

@Flowki.7194 They definitely messed it up and don't account for the fact that 50% means being useless for at least 2 seconds fresh and that's not something ANY supports ends up having to deal with. That's their first mistake. 40% is known to be good enough that you can still have useful weapon skills at the minimum.

Second being that with all the condition spam and they still decided to leave Treesong as the better skill over a DEDICATED skill in skillset which the versatility is extremely complex and involved to extract value out of, a skillset that you have to put everything into the so called empowered mechanic that they decided to come up with and while dealing with the tablet mechanic. It doesn't take much to see how this is a problem but their view is so narrow.

"Oh yes, that one legend that has tons of utility and more compelling options is totally fine, let's double up the cooldown of the one that is more mechanically involved and universally the option for the entire profession and other elites to be supportive as best they can which nobody had found use into until the newest elite (Omg Shocker!! If we combine the most broken thing in this profession with anything decent it becomes too strong!!), this totally doesn't indicate that the newer content is bloated and needs to be fixed! It means that old content has been overpowered all along and we have to fix it so that the newer content can be relevant! Yes Mr PR, this'll do good for our longtime player base and our PR with them, they'll love it and buy the new expansion and completely forget what they used to love with the new current thing! Genius, absolute genius!- What's that, one expansion that they bought before wasn't better? That's okay who cares, let it gather dust, it's not like players just want to have as many options as possible to enjoy their game." -The balance team during their meeting. (And hopefully not the secret discord where they dictate because someone can just find the most OP thing they must be qualified to help in the design of anything.)

[Flowki.7194]

1 hour ago, Shao.7236 said:

They definitely messed it up and don't account for the fact that 50% means being useless for at least 2 seconds fresh and that's not something ANY supports ends up having to deal with. That's their first mistake. 40% is known to be good enough that you can still have useful weapon skills at the minimum.

Second being that with all the condition spam and they still decided to leave Treesong as the better skill over a DEDICATED skill in skillset which the versatility is extremely complex and involved to extract value out of, a skillset that you have to put everything into the so called empowered mechanic that they decided to come up with and while dealing with the tablet mechanic. It doesn't take much to see how this is a problem but their view is so narrow.

Yeah the empowerement mechanic is difficult to get use to, but something that really skill indexed the support, and kept ventari from being flat out OP (it was over the line of bloated for sure, but not OP). 40% will be better than 35% sure, but I still think even 40% was uneccersarry. Over the course of attrition you will feel that 15% less energy in ggroup fights.. as you could already feel it at 35%. I will still point back to the stab stacks/duration as a better fix, then allowing more energy to do other things.

 

The cleanse mechanics of ventari were also perfect when playing condi rev. You had a direct cleanse, but also cleanse combos with dome to proc on mace. Given how fast condi can be re-applied, and that ventari does not have resolotion by default, you could still be overwhelmend by power if focusing on cleanse, or even still be overwhelmed by condi. On the other hand, using power hammer auto with dome is flat out kitten, that is the kind of thing I would suggest needes looked at.. becuase if left alone, you can cleanse+perma protection+perma projectile denial.. for litterally auto attacking. If a condi bomb/high pressure lands, the autos keep you mostly clear, so that hammer 3-5 deal with that. Obviosly it leaves you wide open to CC, but you can just ignore that in those situations of multiple condi specs, especially with friendly finsishers also being counted if positioned right.

 

1 hour ago, Shao.7236 said:

"Oh yes, that one legend that has tons of utility and more compelling options is totally fine, let's double up the cooldown of the one that is more mechanically involved and universally the option for the entire profession and other elites to be supportive as best they can which nobody had found use into until the newest elite (Omg Shocker!! If we combine the most broken thing in this profession with anything decent it becomes too strong!!), this totally doesn't indicate that the newer content is bloated and needs to be fixed! It means that old content has been overpowered all along and we have to fix it so that the newer content can be relevant! Yes Mr PR, this'll do good for our longtime player base and our PR with them, they'll love it and buy the new expansion and completely forget what they used to love with the new current thing! Genius, absolute genius!- What's that, one expansion that they bought before wasn't better? That's okay who cares, let it gather dust, it's not like players just want to have as many options as possible to enjoy their game." -The balance team during their meeting. (And hopefully not the secret discord where they dictate because someone can just find the most OP thing they must be qualified to help in the design of anything.)

 

They did the same to ele support. Instead of just nerfing condi catas stab interaction with signet trait, they nerfed the signet trait into the ground, nerfed signet auras into the ground, and nerfed scepter condi into the ground. They then also nerfed cata stab so that hammer cata is basically useless now. Anyway, I left support/hybrid tempest at that point, and mained rev support. Same thing happened here.. URN got nerfed, and ventari got nerfed, becuase of deathdrop and power. Now power vindi is not worth playing, and no support/hybrid rev of any sort are worth playing.

 

Its funny becuase if you look at ele now, all of them are just running D-D, with some buffs to trait/dagger.. and it has led to a real brainded condi virsion of tempest (the older scepter tempest hybrid was more difficult to sustain with). Similarly on rev, the only thing tolerable to play for me atm is renegade. I am playing a power build atm, with all dmg modifiers, and basically deleting people with ice razor+herioc demand and weapon attacks. Ice razor, a mass AOE immob, and hitting for like 8-10k. This kitten is degen.. it took far more effort to group fight on ventari rev.

Edited October 20 by Flowki.7194