We need to get Bladesworn off lifesupport.

[WingSwipe.3084]

As the title suggests, BSW has been on lifesupport and has lost almost all of its players.

Its probably the weakest warrior playstyle in all game modes.

What suggestions can we provide from this forum to fix this, ill add my own suggestions:

• Allow Bladesworn to move at 50% speed while channeling dragon slash.
  The investment you make into casting a fully charged dragon slash is heavily hampered by its rooting element, allowing Bladesworn players to move at a reduced speed like was done to Deadeyes Kneel would help in not getting hit and losing your charge by the abundance of AOEs that exist in the game.
   
• Move Alac generation to SPB to let that elite spec to be used for Alac support and restore Daring Dragon to its pre June 27, 2023 patch state.
   
• Fix Versatile Power and Hightened Focus to actually affect dragon trigger instead of dragon slashes.
   
• Make Guns and Glory give 250 precision as well to allow crit capping easier.
   
• Let weapon sigils affect gunsabre mode to allow for easier crit capping as well as other sigil interactions.
   
• Revert the Dragon Slash—Boost change of November 28, 2023 so its 0,25 seconds again.
   
• Dragonscale Defense should give Prot and Stab since you are literally just charging a fat attack and cant do anything else.
   
• Normalise and increase flow generation, with Dragonspike Mine and Tactical Reload you can just barely generate enough flow get a double cast off if your not smashing your Flow Stabilizer as hard as possible.
   
• Increase Flicker Step range and give it more charges.
   
• Rework Immortal Dragon to be a condi option for BSW, makes Dragon Slash do much less power damage but applies 80 stacks of bleeding (different amount in PvP/WvW) for a short enough time to only tick once. Call the trait "Serrated Edge" or something. This should be balanced since you can cleanse the damage if you get hit or and are fast enough.
   
• Potentially change Fierce as Fire to be a condi trait choice where every stack of ammo spent applies burning on hit. Buff Dragon slash damage by 5% to compensate for the trait change.
  Keeping up stacks of this buff is currently a pain in the kitten and should in my humble suggestion just not be a thing.
   
• Allow Dragon Slashes to stun in PvP/WvW again using Unyielding Dragon.
   
• Buff Dragon Slash damage in PvP/WvW, hits like a wet noodle right now for what you invest in the attack.

Id really love for BSW to not have to maintain 13 different buffs to be played optimally. Its frankly exhausting and didnt improve with the introduction of the Relic of Pethia.

Edited October 14 by WingSwipe.3084

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I'm going to be honest with you, bsw needs a mechanical rework, not nerf reworks.

The whole charging the iajutsu doesn't work on this game.

[WingSwipe.3084]

11 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I'm going to be honest with you, bsw needs a mechanical rework, not nerf reworks.

The whole charging the iajutsu doesn't work on this game.

We both know thats not happening, then again any buff suggestion is probably not happening either so our words are just gone with the wind.

[Kris Knives.8513]

26 minutes ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

Allow Bladesworn to move at 50% speed while channeling dragon slash.
The investment you make into casting a fully charged dragon slash is heavily hampered by its rooting element, allowing Bladesworn players to move at a reduced speed like was done to Deadeyes Kneel would help in not getting hit and losing your charge by the abundance of AOEs that exist in the game.
-------
Dragonscale Defense should give Prot and Stab since you are literally just charging a fat attack and cant do anything else.

I don't think this would work as well with Dragon Slash unless you could also dodge while channeling which I think would be odd thematically.  I feel like you could just give them 2-4 seconds of invulnerability at the start of channeling and it would work better.

31 minutes ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

Move Alac generation to SPB to let that elite spec to be used for Alac support and restore Daring Dragon to its pre June 27, 2023 patch state.

Makes sense to me.  Alacrity generation has always been awkward at best for Bladesworn.  If they did keep it on Dragin Dragon I think it would make more sense for Daring Dragon to give boons when charging rather than on trigger.  I'd probably rework this to give out an escalating set of boons similar to Well of Bounty.  I feel like that would support its risk vs reward on charging game play better and make position more important.

39 minutes ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

• Rework Immortal Dragon to be a condi option for BSW, makes Dragon Slash do much less power damage but applies 80 stacks of bleeding (different amount in PvP/WvW) for a short enough time to only tick once. Call the trait "Serrated Edge" or something. This should be balanced since you can cleanse the damage if you get hit or and are fast enough.
   
• Potentially change Fierce as Fire to be a condi trait choice where every stack of ammo spent applies burning on hit. Buff Dragon slash damage by 5% to compensate for the trait change.

I feel like condi doesn't really match the flavor of the bladesword with its single massive blow mechanic.

44 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I'm going to be honest with you, bsw needs a mechanical rework, not nerf reworks.

The whole charging the iajutsu doesn't work on this game.

I could see a light rework where they make dragonslash more like an establish play pattern.  They've done stuff like that before, like maybe making dragon slash more like an ambush skill.  You pull out your gunblade and then have a few moments to dragon slash if your flow is high enough.  Personally though I'd rather see them take a few swings at fixing the charge mechanic rather than just throwing in the towel.  I'd hate to see warrior loose yet another unique mechanic.  I feel like warrior is always having its unique mechanics thrown out only to be replace with nothing leaving it a bit blander.

[WingSwipe.3084]

20 minutes ago, Kris Knives.8513 said:

I don't think this would work as well with Dragon Slash unless you could also dodge while channeling which I think would be odd thematically.  I feel like you could just give them 2-4 seconds of invulnerability at the start of channeling and it would work better.

Alright, 2-3 stacks of stab and prot on dragonscale defender on a 8 second cooldown in all modes. We already have enough kitten builds where you cant take damage while you charge to do damage.

22 minutes ago, Kris Knives.8513 said:

I feel like condi doesn't really match the flavor of the bladesword with its single massive blow mechanic.

Diversity of gameplay is always fun though, we are just tossing ideas here.
 

Another idea is to discard flow altogether and just use an ammo system. While you use other ammo skills you store a round into your Dragon Trigger, as soon as you enter Dragon Trigger you can instantly cast Dragon Slash without any charge up and it deals more damage depending on how much ammo your stored into Dragon Trigger.

Would encourage you to use ammo skills exclusively, still making pistol viable, and making Gunsabre mode more rewarding as it synergies better with the new Dragon Trigger mechanic.

[Kris Knives.8513]

4 minutes ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

Another idea is to discard flow altogether and just use an ammo system.

Well if we're tossing out ammo I'd suggest making it a heat system similar to Holosmith.  Have dragon trigger build up heat and the flow mechanic dissipate heat.  That would give them a lot of option to tie effects to your heat level or heat loss.  I feel like that would open up a lot of design options and draw a strong thematic connection.

[Rocker.2906]

Is it all game modes though? I hear it's doing well in instanced highend pve

In sPvP I feel like it's playable with it's almost perma reflect on gunsaber4. Just don't rely on dragon trigger for damage, it's now more of a mobility skill wich sometimes can hit for damage. Granted it's nowhere near SPB, which I think impacts the perception of the spec as a whole. Also since it already has gunsaber for range and ammo it doesnt really blend well with Spear, which is carrying many specs these days.

To me a rework could be as simple as: 
-Make the trigger scale the range, not so much the damage. Yes the damage would ramp but it would be viable to just do a quick trigger if pointblank, while having to charge if looking for reach 
-Make it so that if you charge for at least 3s you get the stun. This way it gets stronger while also making it easier for people to predict when to dodge

[Yerlock.4678]

15 hours ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

As the title suggests, BSW has been on lifesupport and has lost almost all of its players.

Its probably the weakest warrior playstyle in all game modes.

What suggestions can we provide from this forum to fix this, ill add my own suggestions:

• Allow Bladesworn to move at 50% speed while channeling dragon slash.
  The investment you make into casting a fully charged dragon slash is heavily hampered by its rooting element, allowing Bladesworn players to move at a reduced speed like was done to Deadeyes Kneel would help in not getting hit and losing your charge by the abundance of AOEs that exist in the game.
   
• Move Alac generation to SPB to let that elite spec to be used for Alac support and restore Daring Dragon to its pre June 27, 2023 patch state.
   
• Fix Versatile Power and Hightened Focus to actually affect dragon trigger instead of dragon slashes.
   
• Make Guns and Glory give 250 precision as well to allow crit capping easier.
   
• Let weapon sigils affect gunsabre mode to allow for easier crit capping as well as other sigil interactions.
   
• Revert the Dragon Slash—Boost change of November 28, 2023 so its 0,25 seconds again.
   
• Dragonscale Defense should give Prot and Stab since you are literally just charging a fat attack and cant do anything else.
   
• Normalise and increase flow generation, with Dragonspike Mine and Tactical Reload you can just barely generate enough flow get a double cast off if your not smashing your Flow Stabilizer as hard as possible.
   
• Increase Flicker Step range and give it more charges.
   
• Rework Immortal Dragon to be a condi option for BSW, makes Dragon Slash do much less power damage but applies 80 stacks of bleeding (different amount in PvP/WvW) for a short enough time to only tick once. Call the trait "Serrated Edge" or something. This should be balanced since you can cleanse the damage if you get hit or and are fast enough.
   
• Potentially change Fierce as Fire to be a condi trait choice where every stack of ammo spent applies burning on hit. Buff Dragon slash damage by 5% to compensate for the trait change.
  Keeping up stacks of this buff is currently a pain in the kitten and should in my humble suggestion just not be a thing.
   
• Allow Dragon Slashes to stun in PvP/WvW again using Unyielding Dragon.
   
• Buff Dragon Slash damage in PvP/WvW, hits like a wet noodle right now for what you invest in the attack.

Id really love for BSW to not have to maintain 13 different buffs to be played optimally. Its frankly exhausting and didnt improve with the introduction of the Relic of Pethia.

bump

[WingSwipe.3084]

16 hours ago, Kris Knives.8513 said:

Well if we're tossing out ammo I'd suggest making it a heat system similar to Holosmith.  Have dragon trigger build up heat and the flow mechanic dissipate heat.  That would give them a lot of option to tie effects to your heat level or heat loss.  I feel like that would open up a lot of design options and draw a strong thematic connection.

Ammo would fit much better style fit for the Bladesworn, heat is a better choice for Holosmith.

 

14 hours ago, Rocker.2906 said:

Is it all game modes though? I hear it's doing well in instanced highend pve

In sPvP I feel like it's playable with it's almost perma reflect on gunsaber4. Just don't rely on dragon trigger for damage, it's now more of a mobility skill wich sometimes can hit for damage. Granted it's nowhere near SPB, which I think impacts the perception of the spec as a whole. Also since it already has gunsaber for range and ammo it doesnt really blend well with Spear, which is carrying many specs these days.

I dont see ANY BSW players in sPvP. It extraordinarily rare to find one.

Perma reflect wont stop a Willbender or Mesmer from blowing you up in a second or two in melee.

The fact that Dragon Slash does so little damage in PvP/WvW is quite insulting, at least let it stun again. Or restore Daring Dragon so we can dash around like maniacs.

The spear nerfs affected BSW much harder then other builds since it sorta was the only way for it to be viable in recent times.

14 hours ago, Rocker.2906 said:

To me a rework could be as simple as: 
-Make the trigger scale the range, not so much the damage. Yes the damage would ramp but it would be viable to just do a quick trigger if pointblank, while having to charge if looking for reach 
-Make it so that if you charge for at least 3s you get the stun. This way it gets stronger while also making it easier for people to predict when to dodge

Dragon Slash—Boost is already the choice that solved the range issue, problem is that they added a 0,5 second delay to it. This makes the ability feel bad and wonky to use.

3s charge in the current PvP/WvW environment is longer then it takes for other professions to 100-0 you, its a cool suggestion, just not very viable with current levels of damage output. Id just let Unyielding Dragon stun again.

[Kris Knives.8513]

35 minutes ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

Ammo would fit much better style fit for the Bladesworn, heat is a better choice for Holosmith.

I would agree if Cantha wasn't all about Jade Tech and lasers.  It seems odd the gun blade is the only "gun" in all of Cantha.

In this case though I don't see the conflict.  The dragonslash runs on flow not ammo.  The bullet chain charge bar is strictly visual.  Dragonslash as no meaningful interaction with ammo, changing it to build up heat (which is a thing, guns get hot) and then dissipating that heat with flow wouldn't have any impact on ammo.

[Rocker.2906]

3 hours ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

3s charge in the current PvP/WvW environment is longer then it takes for other professions to 100-0 you, its a cool suggestion, just not very viable with current levels of damage output. Id just let Unyielding Dragon stun again.

You are probably right in this, but it could be worked out I think. Maybe make it so that instead it only stuns if you charge a minimum of X cartridges? 

I play BSW in sPvP and I feel like it's hard to balance the trigger around doing enough damage to feel rewarding. I said it before in another topic but I think I'd vibe more with the hability if it had a trait that made it into more of a mitigation tool while you charge.
Wouldnt it feel cool if the slash cleaned all AoE in the ground? 🙂

[Hotride.2187]

I've not fought a single variation of bladesworn and enjoyed it. I'm guessing I'm not the only one. Ask for a major rework of the mechanics (it was obvious that charging attacks while stationary won't work in competitive, either way). Asking for all the removed crap that made it annoying/horrible to fight gets a no from me.

[WingSwipe.3084]

2 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

I've not fought a single variation of bladesworn and enjoyed it. I'm guessing I'm not the only one. Ask for a major rework of the mechanics (it was obvious that charging attacks while stationary won't work in competitive, either way). Asking for all the removed crap that made it annoying/horrible to fight gets a no from me.

Thats why, from my perspective, BSW could use the ammo storing system I wrote about.

"Another idea is to discard flow altogether and just use an ammo system. While you use other ammo skills you store a round into your Dragon Trigger, as soon as you enter Dragon Trigger you can instantly cast Dragon Slash without any charge up and it deals more damage depending on how much ammo your stored into Dragon Trigger.

Would encourage you to use ammo skills exclusively, still making pistol viable, and making Gunsabre mode more rewarding as it synergies better with the new Dragon Trigger mechanic."

The idea is growing on me now. Makes for quicker gameplay, makes BSW much snappier and keeps the "Gun Samurai" style alive, also encourages a damage centered playstyle as compared to the kitten inducing bunker Unshakable Mountain one.

[BonzaiPlatypus.7091]

Lot of good ideas here. Like many, I've been wanting alac on spellbreaker since it was given to bladesworn. It only makes sense. 

I, for one, would love to hear even just a peep from the devs letting us know that they acknowledge the concerns here.

[WingSwipe.3084]

11 hours ago, BonzaiPlatypus.7091 said:

Lot of good ideas here. Like many, I've been wanting alac on spellbreaker since it was given to bladesworn. It only makes sense. 

I, for one, would love to hear even just a peep from the devs letting us know that they acknowledge the concerns here.

I doubt we are getting any, even just getting Rubi to confirm that they unpinned the spear response was the most we've seen as a response from Anet in this part of the forums in... uh...

Has any dev ever responded in here for the last 5+ years?

Anyhow, there must be greater concerns Anet are facing since BSW is just left to die. Either that or they just dont care. You decide what is more depressing.

Id personally be feeling much better regarding warrior if the devs just outright stated in here that they dont care for warrior or if there are other issues that prevent positive changes. At least we'd know and can make informed decision going forward. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

5 hours ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

I doubt we are getting any, even just getting Rubi to confirm that they unpinned the spear response was the most we've seen as a response from Anet in this part of the forums in... uh...

Has any dev ever responded in here for the last 5+ years?

Anyhow, there must be greater concerns Anet are facing since BSW is just left to die. Either that or they just dont care. You decide what is more depressing.

Id personally be feeling much better regarding warrior if the devs just outright stated in here that they dont care for warrior or if there are other issues that prevent positive changes. At least we'd know and can make informed decision going forward. 

They don't ever respond to balance issues. Would be nice if they did, but you have to admit that would be a pandora's box.

[WingSwipe.3084]

33 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

They don't ever respond to balance issues. Would be nice if they did, but you have to admit that would be a pandora's box.

That box has already been opened when news of the infamous discord server they ran with a bunch of streamers came out.

It was essentially confirmed by previous devs that tomfoolery was afoot and profession favoritism existed.

Think its on that server where they admitted to giga buffing Engi rifle for PvE for when mechanist came out.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

That box has already been opened when news of the infamous discord server they ran with a bunch of streamers came out.

It was essentially confirmed by previous devs that tomfoolery was afoot and profession favoritism existed.

Think its on that server where they admitted to giga buffing Engi rifle for PvE for when mechanist came out.

It was one dev in particular, the balance lead prior to Cal.

That dev helped make Mechanist if I recall. They also spent time at work raiding with their firebrand and corner humping in WvW. They balanced a few classes solely based on the numbers on the wiki, just to make changes, refused to buff/nerf certain professions/weapons based on their preferences, and was the reason for the abysmal Banner rework.

That dev no longer has the Anet tag next to their username on Reddit FWIW. Whether the left of their own accord or were sacked is not known, but they clearly no longer work there.

[WingSwipe.3084]

23 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

It was one dev in particular, the balance lead prior to Cal.

That dev helped make Mechanist if I recall. They also spent time at work raiding with their firebrand and corner humping in WvW. They balanced a few classes solely based on the numbers on the wiki, just to make changes, refused to buff/nerf certain professions/weapons based on their preferences, and was the reason for the abysmal Banner rework.

That dev no longer has the Anet tag next to their username on Reddit FWIW. Whether the left of their own accord or were sacked is not known, but they clearly no longer work there.

So do you reckon they even look here for suggestions?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

59 minutes ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

So do you reckon they even look here for suggestions?

Not for our benefit.

[Kunavi.2407]

The whole ESpec needs to just go back to the drawing board, it's too late for just suggestions and it's rotten inside out, no point applying lip stick on a pig here. Thematically it's 20/10, in a vacuum its DPS is acceptable as just a number in general, but in every other way it's a flat boring 0 and unrealistic for GW2's combat, including how you squeeze that DPS out.

Edited October 20 by Kunavi.2407

[rainhelm.3827]

Its ok, when they brick the rest of the class you'll have a reason to play BSW again.

[Langeball.9351]

Who are these people asking for a total rework? People who like warrior, but not bladesworn? It's ok not to like an elite spec, the class doesn't need to be redesigned because of it.

Only reason I even played warrior for a while was bladesworn. Charging up Dragon Slash and baiting dodges with Flicker Step was a lot of fun.

The class really doesn't need much to be viable again, just minor improvements here and there. Like why does Flicker Step, a 300 range shadowstep have a 60 second CD? Why does Dragon Slash, the most telegraphed ability in the world, hit like a wet noodle?

[Mungrul.9358]

While I still don't think it should have ever been added to the game and something different should have been done, I have been playing Bladesworn recently in OW.
And it can be fun, but it's riddled with bafflingly amateurish design decisions that make it too unreliable to be fun.

Firstly, why Flow? Why not have Dragon Slash just work off of Adrenaline like every other spec?

Also, I think that this is the only spec in the game that is absolutely dependent on more than one profession-specific resource, in Flow AND Charges. PICK ONE ANET. Having two further serves to cripple the spec.

But the key problem is that if I were to really represent the fantasy of the still swordsman that delivers one devastating attack at exactly the right moment, I would have it work off of countering rather than charging. And we can't have that, because that's the way Spellbreaker works 🙄

Just imagine how much better the fantasy would work if it was a counter that relied on the standard 3-stage Adrenaline bar, and did more damage the more bars you had when you activated it.

The whole ammunition, explosives and charges bollocks just muddies the waters and makes the spec a confusing mess. Let alone which, with Flow, if you want the spec to work even anywhere near remotely efficiently, you HAVE to take Flow Stabilizer.

Oh, and there's also the lovely little fact that if you mount up with full Flow, when you dismount, even if it's a second later, all of your flow is gone.

 

[DanAlcedo.3281]

On 10/17/2024 at 5:02 PM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

It was one dev in particular, the balance lead prior to Cal.

That dev helped make Mechanist if I recall. They also spent time at work raiding with their firebrand and corner humping in WvW. They balanced a few classes solely based on the numbers on the wiki, just to make changes, refused to buff/nerf certain professions/weapons based on their preferences, and was the reason for the abysmal Banner rework.

That dev no longer has the Anet tag next to their username on Reddit FWIW. Whether the left of their own accord or were sacked is not known, but they clearly no longer work there.

I will never forget them putting the extra crit chance in arms. 

"it's the crit line after all. It says so on the wiki."