Arms and Tactics need rework

[Tzozef.9841]

The demand for Discipline and Defense is killing build diversity for Warriors. And traits in Tactics and Arms are spread WAY TOO THIN. (We all know this)

Tactics for example need better grandmasters, https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Powerful_Synergy is a very bad grandmaster and needs to be changed for something way better. I'd even suggest combine Reviver's Might and Determined Revival as the first Minor trait, bump Inspiring Presence Down. Making Powerful Synergy a Grand Minor trait, it's not worth enough to be a Grandmaster, but seems totally viable as a unique minor.

As a new Grandmaster in Tactics, make https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Inspiring_Battle_Standard the new GM! Give it the buff it deserves, reduce recharge for banners, even by 10% is enough. And give banners a stacking functionality with more banners on the field. Either increase boon duration, or new boons for each banner applied. OR whoever is holding a banner gets 20% minus damage reduction direct and conditions. (because holding a banner in all game modes makes anybody too vulnerable.)

Shrug it off, only removes ONE CONDITION. It's absolutely useless compared to Defy Pain major trait in Defense line. Not to mention, Discipline does the exact same thing, BUT BETTER with Brawler's Recovery, removes condition on weapon switch everytime.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shrug_It_Off needs to be combined with https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vigorous_Shouts, that's a given. Shrug it off trait is so useless and weak, its not worth it on it's own.

Quick Breathing needs to be removed, and make it baseline for Warhorn abilities, it hardly gets used, Warhorn is super weak as it is.

With the room left, now you have space too think about new traits that compete, more synergy with other traits.(In comparison to Discipline, Strength, and Defense. And not just a passive traitline for incremental increase in PvE, which is really it's predominant use.)

As for ARMS trait line - Too many of them are so weak on their own and useless ESPECIALLY to other traits in WvW/PvP.There is so much overlap and redundancy, you are repeating the same traits multiple times its almost useless to take.

With https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Opportunist in Arms and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Leg_Specialist from Tactics need to be combined, each useless alone and not worth taking compared to other traits, overlap in functionality and split apart in separate trait lines it doesn't work, period.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wounding_Precision and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blademaster Need to be combined, Blademaster does the exact same thing but for just one weapon, there is an overlap and there doesn't need to be two that both does variation of the same effect. (increase condi duration)

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sundering_Burst and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Burst_Precision need to be combined. Again overlap with traits for Burst functionality. Each by themselves is weak compared to other traits, I mean Burst Precision is soo useless if you have high enough Precision, no increase in damage.(and with certain sigils such as Intelligence, Severance, Accurancy, and Perception, it's super easy to get a crit on burst, there are so many other ways than to waste a grandmaster trait slot on this)Sundering again, just not worth it unless combined with Burst Precision, then I'd think about using it instead of Strength trait lines.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Furious_Burst and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deep_Strikes need to be combined as a single Minor Trait. And make https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Furious the final Minor trait. Here's why it would look something like this

Arms Minor Traits -Furious Strikes - Using a burst skill grants fury and increases condition damage when applied.(combined Furious burst/Deep Strikes)Bloodlust - You have a chance to inflict bleeding on critical hits, and bleeds that you apply last longer.Fury at Arms (same as Furious) - Critical hits grant bonus adrenaline and gain a stacking condition damage effect.

Now you have complete synergy with all minor traits together. It stands out, clear benefits to condition builds, and supplement to power builds with bonus adrenaline for crits simply a given since these are all Minor traits.But what this does for the entire Arms trait line regarding Majors, with combining certain traits and removing redundency & overlap, and traits in general spread too thin, you can now add traits that are more defensive, more effective offensively, or way more unique that synergizes and more competitive with other traits lines while still being creative and true to the theme of Arms.

For exampleUnsuspecting Foe (now as a grandmaster trait)- instead of this https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unsuspecting_Foe , Now with it's current effects, also make it a Grandmaster, and every 15 seconds, nullify the stun received and reflect it BACK to the foe who dealt it. This includes all disables include stun, daze, knock back, pull, knock down, sink, float, launch, taunt, and fear.

So if someone stunned me and this Grandmaster is not on cooldown, the stun will be applied to my enemy instead of me.

This is not only counter offensive, but fits the theme of ARMS, AND now definitely competes with the Defense traitline, while maintaining a completely unique playstyle that doesn't and can't replace Defense traitline either.

For my final suggestion change https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dual_Wielding -It's too passive and not worth it considering Warriors mix and match so many weapons, having a Grandmaster trait FOR JUST Dual Wielding in the long-term and grand scheme of things is useless. In all game modes.

Here's the change - Fast Wielding: After weapon swap 3 seconds of quickness is applied.This mimics in theme the old version of this grandmaster, but now can be used with any weapon.

This does several things: You now have actual competition with Fast-Hands, people will now consider using this over Discipline as a variant.Fast Wielding now competes with other offensive trait lines such as Strength. Also it can synergize with other trait lines like with Discipline, over other defensive trait lines such as Defense.

Essentially, it' strong enough offensively to compete with Discipline or Strength, and useful enough, and avoids being stuck in a niche, people are willing to sacrifice a defensive trait line such as Defense or Tactics they are willing to take Arms entirely and use this.

Honestly I'm sure there are threads where similar suggests are made, not just for Warrior, but for other professions as well. Balance and Trait synergy has been a huge problem with GW2PLEASE CONSIDER THIS. Anet already has done a decent job overtime with Core Necro traits. But I think things can be taken a higher gear for this year 2018!

Thank you :)

[Oglaf.1074]

When Anet made Phalanx Strength obsolete, they definitely unintentionally high-lighted how bad the Grandmasters for that traitline truly are, lol.

Shout-Warrior has been obsolete in pretty much any game-mode since forever (along with Warhorn-Warrior) and Powerful Synergy is the most deceptive use of the term Powerful in the game!

Arms is similarly in a poor state because it wants to be a hybrid between Power and Condi which is inherently inferior to a dedicated traitline to either one.

[Obtena.7952]

That's how metapushers think ... those things are no where near obsolete. If you're going to come back at me with 'oh but not in competitive game modes', don't bother ... you play the most effective builds in those cases always anyways. Just because something isn't the most effective doesn't make it obsolete. More sour grapes here.

[Hitman.5829]

All I play is defense, discipline and specialization. Or else my warrior feels slower than a tortoise and is susceptible to instant kill.Anet needs to make fast hands base. The only reason I take discipline is because of the 5 sec cooldown on weapon swap.

[Oglaf.1074]

@"Obtena.7952" said:That's how metapushers think ... those things are no where near obsolete. If you're going to come back at me with 'oh but not in competitive game modes', don't bother ... you play the most effective builds in those cases always anyways. Just because something isn't the most effective doesn't make it obsolete. More sour grapes here.

You say "metapusher". I say "any Warrior player with some braincells to rub together".

Those traitlines, skills and weapon are woefully inadequate for the current state of the game.

They haven't been updated/touched in probably literal years and it shows.

@Hitman.5829 said:All I play is defense, discipline and specialization. Or else my warrior feels slower than a tortoise and is susceptible to instant kill.Anet needs to make fast hands base. The only reason I take discipline is because of the 5 sec cooldown on weapon swap.

Warrior's Sprint is pretty nice in a world where it feels like all other classes can teleport around at will. :D

[Obtena.7952]

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:That's how metapushers think ... those things are no where near obsolete. If you're going to come back at me with 'oh but not in competitive game modes', don't bother ... you play the most effective builds in those cases always anyways. Just because something isn't the most effective doesn't make it obsolete. More sour grapes here.

You say "metapusher". I say "any Warrior player with some braincells to rub together".

Those traitlines, skills and weapon are woefully inadequate for the current state of the game.

And yet, you can still play a build with those traits that isn't woefully inadequate for it, even though you claim the traits themselves are inadequate. Amazing how that works ay? Again, you're just spouting metapusher talk and sour grapes, just like your MMR complaint threads. I would argue you NEED two braincells to actually make and use a build that uses these traits and skills effectively. Perhaps this could explain the current thinking showing in this thread.

Some rework would be nice and yes the traits are a bit dated, but being sensational means nothing here. True being that there are better traits that need love than Arms and Tactics, considering most good builds, including meta actually USE those traitlines, even as inadequate as you think they are.

[Oglaf.1074]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:That's how metapushers think ... those things are no where near obsolete. If you're going to come back at me with 'oh but not in competitive game modes', don't bother ... you play the most effective builds in those cases always anyways. Just because something isn't the most effective doesn't make it obsolete. More sour grapes here.

You say "metapusher". I say "any Warrior player with some braincells to rub together".

Those traitlines, skills and weapon are woefully inadequate for the current state of the game.

And yet, you can still play a build with those traits that isn't woefully inadequate for it, even though you claim the traits themselves are inadequate.

But the resulting build would be "woefully inadequate".

Traited Warhorn's condi cleanse is woefully inadequate to deal with PvP/WvW, as is the traited Shouts when it comes to sustain - there are simply far more effective ways to do both as a Warrior at the moment.

Oh, and nobody is impressed with your use of "metapusher" as an insult. It is just sad.

[Obtena.7952]

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:That's how metapushers think ... those things are no where near obsolete. If you're going to come back at me with 'oh but not in competitive game modes', don't bother ... you play the most effective builds in those cases always anyways. Just because something isn't the most effective doesn't make it obsolete. More sour grapes here.

You say "metapusher". I say "any Warrior player with some braincells to rub together".

Those traitlines, skills and weapon are woefully inadequate for the current state of the game.

And yet, you can still play a build with those traits that isn't woefully inadequate for it, even though you claim the traits themselves are inadequate.

But the resulting build would be "woefully inadequate".

Traited Warhorn's condi cleanse is woefully inadequate to deal with PvP/WvW, as is the traited Shouts when it comes to sustain - there are simply far more effective ways to do both as a Warrior at the moment.

Oh, and nobody is impressed with your use of "metapusher" as an insult. It is just sad.

Yes, the resulting builds that use Arms and Tactics are woefully inadequate ... especially the meta build. :/ You sold me.

You see, you defeat your own argument for improvement ... if there are better or more effective ways to do those things, what is the reason to make these particular items better for PVP/WvW? Especially if they are THE traits for PVE meta? You have no argument. it's the nature of the game that you obviously take the skills that give you the best performance in PVP/WVW ... so arguing those things aren't good for those places isn't a reason to adjust them ... unless it's your intention to make them the BEST things for those areas. That's power creep.

That's exactly how people that push the meta talk; it needs to be fixed because it's not the best choice. Meta people only cares about what is optimal. To be honest, those skills are pretty good for what they do and the level of traits they are in. Like anything else, if you build for them properly, they are just fine. If you don't think removing 4 conditions from you and Allies is very good, simply don't choose that trait. I don't really get the argument that it's inadequate for PVP/WVW so it needs a buff. That might make sense if you couldn't choose anything else, but you have choice.

[Miko.4158]

just buffing arms and tactics isn't fair.its the synergies and builds that are out.

arms is dual wield potentially, but not only is gs better but it goes nicely with burst /strength/might/ power.if arms picked up precision and ferocity rather than condi and signets (randomnly) it would pair with sb.at the moment condi is burnzerker, but that's more about burst so people take strength + its damage

tactics, what a mess.no banners at all? even though thats our major support skills. one option on shouts is not alot to build around and warhorn is rubbishso no-one takes any of itfirstly powerful synergy doesn't belong in here and could go in arms as an alternative to dual wield allowing people to take it with strength.tactics isn't support its might, which is nice def/tactics/str is doable with gs, but again we're not exactly adding to diversity ,

put might buffs into disciple if we must have it, personally I think to many gs 'ers.get rid of leg specialist aswell.

add:decent banner optionsadd decent shout cleanses/stabssynergise with def line and vitality/healing stat.

change the above and we have
no decent condi options (same as now) , however feels like next elite!hambow condi priest of aoe!

[Snowywonders.1378]

Speaking from a PvE perspective, I find the Arms traitline to be great for power builds. Allows for stacking 25 vuln very quickly, grants a constant + 200 ferocity, and Dual Wielding feels great when using axe. I do not want to see it changed

[Lonecap.4105]

@Snowywonders.1378 said:Speaking from a PvE perspective, I find the Arms traitline to be great for power builds. Allows for stacking 25 vuln very quickly, grants a constant + 200 ferocity, and Dual Wielding feels great when using axe. I do not want to see it changed

I didn't want to lose a 10% damage modifier on stick and move. But I did. Why? So PvE warriors can get some bonus power from fully stacked might (never happens in WvW).

Those traits are bad. Dual wielding doesn't even stack with quickness and its a grandmaster. Just sad tbh.

[Obtena.7952]

@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

@Snowywonders.1378 said:Speaking from a PvE perspective, I find the Arms traitline to be great for power builds. Allows for stacking 25 vuln very quickly, grants a constant + 200 ferocity, and Dual Wielding feels great when using axe. I do not want to see it changed

I didn't want to lose a 10% damage modifier on stick and move. But I did. Why? So PvE warriors can get some bonus power from fully stacked might (never happens in WvW).

Those traits are bad. Dual wielding doesn't even stack with quickness and its a grandmaster. Just sad tbh.

I would say you lost it because a 10% dps buff under such an easily attainable scenario was a poorly implemented design for it. PVE warriors lost that modifier too you know.

[Kiroshima.8497]

Personally, I think Powerful Synergy is actually a great idea for a grandmaster, but the problem is that combo finishers are just too weak so it's pointless to double them (minus blasting water of course). Like, wow, 2x Area Weakness, whoop de doo. Or, 2x Area Blindness, that one doesn't even stack properly so it's literally useless.

Powerful Synergy should add an offensive component to ALL combo finishers the warrior performs. For example; AoE Chaos Shield applies confusion, Leap Fire Shield applies Burning, Whirling Water applies... something. Water Combos would be the most difficult but the rest are straight forward.

[Oglaf.1074]

Yeah in theory/theme it aint bad.

Just in practice/execution.

[Mikeskies.1536]

@Kiroshima.8497 said:Personally, I think Powerful Synergy is actually a great idea for a grandmaster, but the problem is that combo finishers are just too weak so it's pointless to double them (minus blasting water of course). Like, wow, 2x Area Weakness, whoop de doo. Or, 2x Area Blindness, that one doesn't even stack properly so it's literally useless.

Powerful Synergy should add an offensive component to ALL combo finishers the warrior performs. For example; AoE Chaos Shield applies confusion, Leap Fire Shield applies Burning, Whirling Water applies... something. Water Combos would be the most difficult but the rest are straight forward.

If only it granted double fire aura as opposed to double duration...

[Crossaber.8934]

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@Kiroshima.8497 said:Personally, I think Powerful Synergy is actually a great idea for a grandmaster, but the problem is that combo finishers are just too weak so it's pointless to double them (minus blasting water of course). Like, wow, 2x Area Weakness, whoop de doo. Or, 2x Area Blindness, that one doesn't even stack properly so it's literally useless.

Powerful Synergy should add an offensive component to ALL combo finishers the warrior performs. For example; AoE Chaos Shield applies confusion, Leap Fire Shield applies Burning, Whirling Water applies... something. Water Combos would be the most difficult but the rest are straight forward.

If only it granted double fire aura as opposed to double duration...

If it is double ANY finisher instead of only double LEAP finisher, the trait will be extremely useful and may even require an ICD to balance it out.

[Mikeskies.1536]

@Crossaber.8934 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@Kiroshima.8497 said:Personally, I think Powerful Synergy is actually a great idea for a grandmaster, but the problem is that combo finishers are just too weak so it's pointless to double them (minus blasting water of course). Like, wow, 2x Area Weakness, whoop de doo. Or, 2x Area Blindness, that one doesn't even stack properly so it's literally useless.

Powerful Synergy should add an offensive component to ALL combo finishers the warrior performs. For example; AoE Chaos Shield applies confusion, Leap Fire Shield applies Burning, Whirling Water applies... something. Water Combos would be the most difficult but the rest are straight forward.

If only it granted double fire aura as opposed to double duration...

If it is double ANY finisher instead of only double LEAP finisher, the trait will be extremely useful and may even require an ICD to balance it out.

Yes, it really needs to double the application of all combo finishers, not double the effects.

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

OMG don't even get me started on how dead THE ONLY WEAPON FOR ANY PROFESSION THAT DOES 0 DAMAGE is dead.