Cleanser Engi for WvW, what do you guys think?

[Ivantreil.3092]

The Condi Cleanser Engineer is a build that i've been toying with in WvW, a support build wich main purpose is simple, cleanse to no end your allies from codnitions.

The build used:

• p/s as weapon set
• Healing Turret
• Elixir C
• Elixir R or Mine Field (for the double blast), or Elixir S, or Rocket Boots.
• Elixir Gun
• and finally Supply crate for that sweet toobelt that full cleanses everyone, (the elite itself makes some cleansing too).

For food i used the one that cleanses a condition upon using a healing skil, and for utility one that granted concentration depending of my healing power.

I tried minstrel stats for this build, might aswell grant some minor healing aswell.

The idea was great on paper, but after several attempts, i found myself that there was no point on trying to cleanse my friends, if i couldn't survive these conditions aswell, i often finded myself rethreating for my survival instead of staying and trying to cleanse my friends.

But now, with this update, wow, they gave use several new tools for dealing with condies, perhaps this build might finally workout.

What do you guys think about it, a new WvW spec for us?, Cleanser Engi?, could someone theorycraft it?, im at work right now.

Edit

I theorycrafted what could be a good startup for the build, for more details about the build, check the Comments Below:

Cleanser Engi: Beta Build

[Los Re.4607]

What really bothers me is that an alch/inve/scrapper engi would be perfect as a support "condi cleanser" but if we use shield, we basically have no choice of a power main hand.

[Ivantreil.3092]

@"Los Re.4607" said:What really bothers me is that an alch/inve/scrapper engi would be perfect as a support "condi cleanser" but if we use shield, we basically have no choice of a power main hand.

When you take Shield you must be aware that you are going for a build that deals no damage whatsoever, so your power argument is irrelevant to the concept of this build, its a build meant to keep your allies alive from the conditions, if you want damage then holosmith is there dude.

[Los Re.4607]

It's not about the damage tho. It about having 3 weapons skills that have some short of use in your build. Main hand pistol skills in a power build have no dmg AND they're useless.

Finishers, cc (hard or soft), leaps, reflections are all concepts that do no damage but provide other stuff to the table.

[Arimas.3492]

The changes were definitely in the right direction for support builds. I'm sad that med kit still hasn't gotten the changes it needs though. Would be fun to play 100% support engineer.

[Ivantreil.3092]

@Los Re.4607 said:It's not about the damage tho. It about having 3 weapons skills that have some short of use in your build. Main hand pistol skills in a power build have no dmg AND they're useless.

Finishers, cc (hard or soft), leaps, reflections are all concepts that do no damage but provide other stuff to the table.

Well, this is pretty much why i took P/S, it was the best from the worst (in terms of synergy), I took it for the Shield blast, Rifle is useless, the leap effects only affect yourself, same thing with Hamer, only Selfish effects, (whirl is unreliable, gl hitting someone with it).

But P/S makes even more sense now!, the shield trait grants Protection when you use a shield skill, now you cleanse conditions to allies when you grant them Protection, you see how good P/S just got? even when Pistol has no use whatsoever other than granting stats to the build.

[Ivantreil.3092]

@Arimas.3492 said:The changes were definitely in the right direction for support builds. I'm sad that med kit still hasn't gotten the changes it needs though. Would be fun to play 100% support engineer.

Agreed, maybe one day, one day, that said, have you tried to make a Healer engi via Regeneration with the new regeneration changes?, the Healing Turret Toolbelt as example?

[Arimas.3492]

@Ivantreil.3092 said:

@Arimas.3492 said:The changes were definitely in the right direction for support builds. I'm sad that med kit still hasn't gotten the changes it needs though. Would be fun to play 100% support engineer.

Agreed, maybe one day, one day, that said, have you tried to make a Healer engi via Regeneration with the new regeneration changes?, the Healing Turret Toolbelt as example?

I have not tried. Currently at work but when I get home I'll try something. I've had builds before these changes that weren't bad on healing and cleansing so I think it'll at least be the same if not better.

[Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365]

You don't need the shield. If you run HT and inventions it will cleans 4 condis alone, so using hammer for your own survival sounds pretty decent imo

[Are.1326]

@Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365 said:You don't need the shield. If you run HT and inventions it will cleans 4 condis alone, so using hammer for your own survival sounds pretty decent imo

Taking the CD reset for healing skills instead of the shield trait would also let you pop that heal more often. I wonder, does that make experimental turrets or that heal on blast trait worth it?

[Vyrek.5019]

Get celestial gear, take HT, Flame thrower, Elixir C, Elixir gun, and Sneak Gyro. Take Alchemy, Firearms, and Scrapper. Take Regen skills and PoP in alch, anything that stacks might in firearms, and barrier skills in Scrapper. Fire runes and a strength sigil. Just stick in FT and never die while burning everything to death

[Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365]

@Are.1326 said:

@Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365 said:You don't need the shield. If you run HT and inventions it will cleans 4 condis alone, so using hammer for your own survival sounds pretty decent imo

Taking the CD reset for healing skills instead of the shield trait would also let you pop that heal more often. I wonder, does that make experimental turrets or that heal on blast trait worth it?

Could be tbh!

@elitegamerz.4965 said:Get celestial gear, take HT, Flame thrower, Elixir C, Elixir gun, and Sneak Gyro. Take Alchemy, Firearms, and Scrapper. Take Regen skills and PoP in alch, anything that stacks might in firearms, and barrier skills in Scrapper. Fire runes and a strength sigil. Just stick in FT and never die while burning everything to death

I love the idea, i wonder if it would work in wvw as roaming

[Aetatis.5418]

didnt see somebody mentioning it.scrapper healing gyro.cleanses on skill usecleanses on f1... 5 times

[Ivantreil.3092]

So, i have thought about theorycrfting the possible new Clanser Engi and i have come up with this, taking some of the suggestions putted here:

Cleanser Engi: Beta Build

Gw2Skills still hasnt updated to the new changes, so if you see that the build is taking traits that make no sense, remember that they are taking the place of new recieved traits.

So, in theory, this is the Anti codition Arsenal that the build has:

• Shield Skills: 4 Condi Cleanses (1 Extra via Light Field Blast)
• Reconstruction Field: 5 Condi Cleanses
• Medic Gyro: 2 Condi Cleanses
• Toss Elixir C: 2 Converted Conditions
• Fumigate: 5 Condi Cleanses
• Acid Bomb: 1 Via Light Field Blast
• Super Elixir: Light Field Blaster
• Med Pack Drop: Full Condi Cleanse
• Suppy Crate: 4 Condi Cleanses + 2 Converted Conditions (1 Extra via Light Field Blast)

Bulwark Gyro is Sloted for improve the survivability of the Scrapper, theorycally, if paired with a Support class that grants boons, and, with the new adaptive armor this means a:

• 42% Percent Condi Damage Reduction (Unrealistic, somewhere around the 30% Damage Reduction is more Realistic)
• 55% Power Damage Reduction (Without Toughness in the equation)

Overall, it seems like a solid build to tryout, i will try it on this friday reset, only time will tell, if the build is bunky enough for like Trait in Comeback Cure, still Skeptical about the Engi Survival without the Passive Elixir S, as i said, only time will tell.

[Kryil.6045]

As much as I like Iron Blooded, Stimulant Supplier got replaced with Purity of Purpose . That's just WAY too good. EDIT: Does it have a 10 second CD? It's not ingame and kinda hard to test.

Played around with it and I'm probably going to try this one.

[bambi.6214]

Can anyone test whether Rune of Herald and Reconstruction Enclosure will proc Anticorrosing Plating twice on heal skill?

[Ivantreil.3092]

@"Kryil.6045" said:As much as I like Iron Blooded, Stimulant Supplier got replaced with Purity of Purpose . That's just WAY too good. EDIT: Does it have a 10 second CD? It's not ingame and kinda hard to test.

Played around with it and I'm probably going to try this one.

In my personal experience, i try to avoid conversion traits, because, it tends to be countered with necro corruptions, hence, destroying your progress in eliminating the conditions, also, i see some incocistencies, why you picked experimental turrets, without any turret slot?, and perfectly weighted when you didnt pick hammer?

[Ivantreil.3092]

@"Samug.6512" said:Can anyone test whether Rune of Herald and Reconstruction Enclosure will proc Anticorrosing Plating twice on heal skill?

Interesting suggestion, if it works, medic gyro would cleanse 3 instead of 2, and the drop supplies 5 instead of 4 (but it loses the extra 2 conversion), sounds like a decent variant nonetheless

[Kryil.6045]

@Ivantreil.3092 said:

@"Kryil.6045" said:As much as I like Iron Blooded, Stimulant Supplier got replaced with

Purity of Purpose

. That's just WAY too good. EDIT: Does it have a 10 second CD? It's not ingame and kinda hard to test.

Played around with it and I'm probably going to try

this one.

In my personal experience, i try to avoid conversion traits, because, it tends to be countered with necro corruptions, hence, destroying your progress in eliminating the conditions, also, i see some incocistencies, why you picked experimental turrets, without any turret slot?, and perfectly weighted when you didnt pick hammer?Well if necro corruptions are the issue boons should be avoided completely, but they're just so good. Going to test this though. Experimental turrets was "forgotten" from when I thought about using trumper turret for the protection and therefore additional cleanses, but the 10s pulses are kinda low. Could still be interesting for supply crate though. Perfectly weighted was mainly for the stability because we're kinda lacking that, not sure if it's worth it though.

[Ivantreil.3092]

@Kryil.6045 said:

@Ivantreil.3092 said:

@Kryil.6045 said:As much as I like Iron Blooded, Stimulant Supplier got replaced with

Purity of Purpose

. That's just WAY too good. EDIT: Does it have a 10 second CD? It's not ingame and kinda hard to test.

Played around with it and I'm probably going to try

this one.

In my personal experience, i try to avoid conversion traits, because, it tends to be countered with necro corruptions, hence, destroying your progress in eliminating the conditions, also, i see some incocistencies, why you picked experimental turrets, without any turret slot?, and perfectly weighted when you didnt pick hammer?Well if necro corruptions are the issue boons should be avoided completely, but they're just so good. Going to test this though. Experimental turrets was "forgotten" from when I thought about using trumper turret for the protection and therefore additional cleanses, but the 10s pulses are kinda low. Could still be interesting for supply crate though. Perfectly weighted was mainly for the stability because we're kinda lacking that, not sure if it's worth it though.

I considered thumper turret to be between one of my options too, it essentially cleanses 3 Conditions, 1 with the protection from Experimental turrets, and 2 conditions via blast, the Turret makes a double blast instead of once, unique effects imo, but, the cd of the Turret is so big that i simply don't see it worth it for the cd it has.

Good thought about the stability issue, But maybe theres a better way to deal with that, Perhaps bring a cc break instead?, i could see myself swapping Elixir C for an aditional CC Break, Superspeed from slick shoes or Reactive lenses, oh, thumper turret also offers a cc break so theres that.

[Deniara Devious.3948]

Interesting ideas, but let's just be realistic, this won't replace any of the meta professions. Guardian has always been part of WvWvW meta, since Autumn 2012. Most commanders choose to play guardian while commanding. Firebrand will offer group stability, might, swiftness, aegis, resistance, protection etc. and better condition to boon conversion, while still retaining some damage.

These builds will continue to be the WvWvW zerg meta: scourge, firebrand, hammer herald (revenant) + few weaver eles + spellbreakers + mesmers (needed for utilities, like portal).

Arenanet developers have yet again (many years in a row!) failed to make enough changes to make engineer part of WvWvW core meta.

I am very saddened to see yet another epic fail "balance" patch for WvWvW.

[coglin.1496]

Not wedging the engineer into the WvW meta doesn't even come close to making this a failed patch. They greatly improved the engineers value in WvW.

If you rolled into any patch assuming guardian, necro, or ele would be pushed out of the WvW meta or assuming engineer would be wedged into the meta, you have no understanding of WvW in the first place.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

yeah lol either get scrapper heal gyro which gives 5 prots on f1 with purge gyroor hard light arena which gives 8 cleanses or 12 if youre above fitty % heat along with sword/shieldcore is ded

[Haseno.6417]

I've been running a Cleanse Engi with:Pistol/ShieldAlchemy, Inventions, and ScrapperRunning either Minstrel's or Apothecary gear in PVE/WvW and running Rune of the Monk/Sage Amulet in SPvP.

I've been using the Medic Gyro and Purge Gyro along with Elixir S and Elixir Gun. I cure so many conditions it's ridiculous. With the new PoP Trait from Alchemy instead of HgH I dish out a lot of boons as well.

The Reconstruction Field (F1) from having Medic Gyro equipped is one of the best things ever now. Paired with Purge Gyro I can cleanse up to 5 conditions from Reconstruction Field plus an additional 2 conditions every 3 seconds from purge gyro. Not to mention, I heal myself and allies in a small radius with medic gyro equipped.

In SPvP i'm constantly highest healing, highest offense, highest defense, and highest damage because of the amount of survivability I can play aggressive.

[Pride.1734]

This is the biggest patch engi will get this whole year probably. Sadly it wasn't even close to enough. They just played its super safe with engi again and all of its condi clear stuff is just "cute" the way soulbeat stances are. Won't see even fringe play.