Menadena.7482 Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 I thought both expansions were on the gem store recently? But I agree with what others have said, if you compare the cost for the expansion + any other random gem goodies to the cost of a year's sub to other games you come out ahead with GW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 @maxx.1279 said:@Ashen.2907 said:@Dayra.7405 said:If you do not buy an expansion your a 2nd class citizen, if you do not buy 2 expansions, you are a 3rd class citizien, and so on.And why the hell should that care ANet? You got and still have what you payed, but as you are unwilling to support the game anymore, why should the game support you anymore?He didnt say that he no longer supports the game. Its quite possible for a player who does not buy an expac to spend more on the game than someone who does.The original thing that attracted me to GW2 was buy the box and every thing else for in game currency, i am great at economy games and farming.I convert gold to gems and have spent over 13000 gems.. now I wasn't the one spending money on those gems so it depends on how you look at that. Is spending gems support? or is buying gold support?Not that it matters to my point much, as it is one of principal.To be fair, if you buy the one box then everything else related to that one box is either included, no additional charge to continue to play as long as you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxx.1279 Posted February 24, 2018 Author Share Posted February 24, 2018 @Ashen.2907 said:@maxx.1279 said:@Ashen.2907 said:@Dayra.7405 said:If you do not buy an expansion your a 2nd class citizen, if you do not buy 2 expansions, you are a 3rd class citizien, and so on.And why the hell should that care ANet? You got and still have what you payed, but as you are unwilling to support the game anymore, why should the game support you anymore?He didnt say that he no longer supports the game. Its quite possible for a player who does not buy an expac to spend more on the game than someone who does.The original thing that attracted me to GW2 was buy the box and every thing else for in game currency, i am great at economy games and farming.I convert gold to gems and have spent over 13000 gems.. now I wasn't the one spending money on those gems so it depends on how you look at that. Is spending gems support? or is buying gold support?Not that it matters to my point much, as it is one of principal.To be fair, if you buy the one box then everything else related to that one box is either included, no additional charge to continue to play as long as you like.while you are technically correct. it is not comparable to its original condition which is my argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 @maxx.1279 said:@Ashen.2907 said:@maxx.1279 said:@Ashen.2907 said:@Dayra.7405 said:If you do not buy an expansion your a 2nd class citizen, if you do not buy 2 expansions, you are a 3rd class citizien, and so on.And why the hell should that care ANet? You got and still have what you payed, but as you are unwilling to support the game anymore, why should the game support you anymore?He didnt say that he no longer supports the game. Its quite possible for a player who does not buy an expac to spend more on the game than someone who does.The original thing that attracted me to GW2 was buy the box and every thing else for in game currency, i am great at economy games and farming.I convert gold to gems and have spent over 13000 gems.. now I wasn't the one spending money on those gems so it depends on how you look at that. Is spending gems support? or is buying gold support?Not that it matters to my point much, as it is one of principal.To be fair, if you buy the one box then everything else related to that one box is either included, no additional charge to continue to play as long as you like.while you are technically correct. it is not comparable to its original condition which is my argument.Actually there is more content available included with the initial box, or for in game currency, than the original condition of the game.Anet has increased the value of what you bought without charging more real money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxx.1279 Posted February 24, 2018 Author Share Posted February 24, 2018 @Menadena.7482 said:I thought both expansions were on the gem store recently? But I agree with what others have said, if you compare the cost for the expansion + any other random gem goodies to the cost of a year's sub to other games you come out ahead with GW2.I have never seen an expansion for sale for any price other than cash. Otherwise i would have bought it and had no principal to base an argument on.other than spec balance which is what amplifies the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxx.1279 Posted February 24, 2018 Author Share Posted February 24, 2018 @Ashen.2907 said:@maxx.1279 said:@Ashen.2907 said:@maxx.1279 said:@Ashen.2907 said:@Dayra.7405 said:If you do not buy an expansion your a 2nd class citizen, if you do not buy 2 expansions, you are a 3rd class citizien, and so on.And why the hell should that care ANet? You got and still have what you payed, but as you are unwilling to support the game anymore, why should the game support you anymore?He didnt say that he no longer supports the game. Its quite possible for a player who does not buy an expac to spend more on the game than someone who does.The original thing that attracted me to GW2 was buy the box and every thing else for in game currency, i am great at economy games and farming.I convert gold to gems and have spent over 13000 gems.. now I wasn't the one spending money on those gems so it depends on how you look at that. Is spending gems support? or is buying gold support?Not that it matters to my point much, as it is one of principal.To be fair, if you buy the one box then everything else related to that one box is either included, no additional charge to continue to play as long as you like.while you are technically correct. it is not comparable to its original condition which is my argument.Actually there is more content available included with the initial box, or for in game currency, than the original condition of the game.Anet has increased the value of what you bought without charging more real money.Value is subjective, would you pay $60 for the core game today?i said it was not comparable, i did not say that nothing had changed. Much of it has been improved. rewards for example. but those don't help me when i step out of the keep in WvW alone do they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonecap.4105 Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 @"maxx.1279" said:ProverbsofHell So, if you buy a game that says you will only pay the box price, and a year later they say pay more. you say the answer is pay more or leave. how is your response any different than our first class elite citizen Dayra?It's not different. It's just how it is. You bought the base game and got it. You have everything that was there promised to you. Nobody promised you there wouldn't potentially be further expansions that you may have to buy if you wanted to access them. You say the game is "no longer comparable to it's original state in which it was sold" but didn't elaborate - if you mean the meta has changed then sorry, but you can't expect things like that to stay the same solely for you, it's selfish.And the majority of people are fine with the game's model - you are alone in your opinion and therefore, if you were hoping to single-handedly change the business model of the game with this topic... you are wasting your time. So now I ask you, what are you hoping to achieve with this topic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 @maxx.1279 said:@Ashen.2907 said:@maxx.1279 said:@Ashen.2907 said:@Dayra.7405 said:If you do not buy an expansion your a 2nd class citizen, if you do not buy 2 expansions, you are a 3rd class citizien, and so on.And why the hell should that care ANet? You got and still have what you payed, but as you are unwilling to support the game anymore, why should the game support you anymore?He didnt say that he no longer supports the game. Its quite possible for a player who does not buy an expac to spend more on the game than someone who does.The original thing that attracted me to GW2 was buy the box and every thing else for in game currency, i am great at economy games and farming.I convert gold to gems and have spent over 13000 gems.. now I wasn't the one spending money on those gems so it depends on how you look at that. Is spending gems support? or is buying gold support?Not that it matters to my point much, as it is one of principal.To be fair, if you buy the one box then everything else related to that one box is either included, no additional charge to continue to play as long as you like.while you are technically correct. it is not comparable to its original condition which is my argument.It is the same game is still there and you can play it the same way you did before, for fractals and dungeons just find 4 like minded people and start playing.I mean you cant be the only one not having both expansions right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 @maxx.1279 said:@Ashen.2907 said:@maxx.1279 said:@Ashen.2907 said:@maxx.1279 said:@Ashen.2907 said:@Dayra.7405 said:If you do not buy an expansion your a 2nd class citizen, if you do not buy 2 expansions, you are a 3rd class citizien, and so on.And why the hell should that care ANet? You got and still have what you payed, but as you are unwilling to support the game anymore, why should the game support you anymore?He didnt say that he no longer supports the game. Its quite possible for a player who does not buy an expac to spend more on the game than someone who does.The original thing that attracted me to GW2 was buy the box and every thing else for in game currency, i am great at economy games and farming.I convert gold to gems and have spent over 13000 gems.. now I wasn't the one spending money on those gems so it depends on how you look at that. Is spending gems support? or is buying gold support?Not that it matters to my point much, as it is one of principal.To be fair, if you buy the one box then everything else related to that one box is either included, no additional charge to continue to play as long as you like.while you are technically correct. it is not comparable to its original condition which is my argument.Actually there is more content available included with the initial box, or for in game currency, than the original condition of the game.Anet has increased the value of what you bought without charging more real money.Value is subjective, would you pay $60 for the core game today?i said it was not comparable, i did not say that nothing had changed. Much of it has been improved. rewards for example. but those don't help me when i step out of the keep in WvW alone do they?Not just changed, increased in volume (and some would say quality). The non expansion version of the game has more than it did at launch. Its bigger.You are right in saying that it isnt comparable to the original release because right now non expansion owners, without spending a dime, have access to more than they did originally.I frequently step out alone in wvw. I tend to do a significant amount of wvw roaming in between pve releases. Among my preferred builds are some that do not include elite specs. Would I have preferred that elite specs not (often) represent power creep? Of course, but its still possible to play effectively without them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxx.1279 Posted February 24, 2018 Author Share Posted February 24, 2018 @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:@"maxx.1279" said:ProverbsofHell So, if you buy a game that says you will only pay the box price, and a year later they say pay more. you say the answer is pay more or leave. how is your response any different than our first class elite citizen Dayra?It's not different. It's just how it is. You bought the base game and got it. You have everything that was there promised to you. Nobody promised you there wouldn't potentially be further expansions that you may have to buy if you wanted to access them. You say the game is "no longer comparable to it's original state in which it was sold" but didn't elaborate - if you mean the meta has changed then sorry, but you can't expect things like that to stay the same solely for you, it's selfish.And the majority of people are fine with the game's model - you are alone in your opinion and therefore, if you were hoping to single-handedly change the business model of the game with this topic... you are wasting your time. So now I ask you, what are you hoping to achieve with this topic?so buy it or leave has morphed into be happy with what you paid for. and ignoring every thing for in-game currency.great example of argument ad-populum, the majority of people who like something and invested in it disagree with your complaint says I! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallesafe.5932 Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 You're just deliberately conflating "no subscription fee" with "no paid expansion content." The two have nothing to do with each other. Here's an ebay link to a GW2 box from 2012. Please scour the front and back side for any commitment other than "No subscription fee" (i.e. no monthly access charge). https://m.ebay.com/itm/Guild-Wars-2-PC-2012/142668766377?epid=59371869&hash=item2137b89ca9:g:-ysAAOSwI8laIybL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxx.1279 Posted February 24, 2018 Author Share Posted February 24, 2018 @"Fallesafe.5932" said:You're just deliberately conflating "no subscription fee" with "no paid expansion content." The two have nothing to do with each other. Here's an ebay link to a GW2 box from 2012. Please scour the front and back side for any commitment other than "No subscription fee" (i.e. no monthly access charge). https://m.ebay.com/itm/Guild-Wars-2-PC-2012/142668766377?epid=59371869&hash=item2137b89ca9:g:-ysAAOSwI8laIybLI never set eyes on a box. this is a red herring.If your honestly trying to say that all of the discussion pre-launch doesn't matter at all I'm going to consider your remarks as a troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallesafe.5932 Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 @maxx.1279 said:@"Fallesafe.5932" said:You're just deliberately conflating "no subscription fee" with "no paid expansion content." The two have nothing to do with each other. Here's an ebay link to a GW2 box from 2012. Please scour the front and back side for any commitment other than "No subscription fee" (i.e. no monthly access charge). https://m.ebay.com/itm/Guild-Wars-2-PC-2012/142668766377?epid=59371869&hash=item2137b89ca9:g:-ysAAOSwI8laIybLI never set eyes on a box. this is a red herring.If your honestly trying to say that all of the discussion pre-launch doesn't matter at all I'm going to consider your remarks as a troll.Oh great! Then please link us to some of the discussion where ANY official commitment was made beyond "no subscription fee" (i.e. no monthly access charge). You got exactly what you paid for.Alternatively, please explain how "no subscription fee" (i.e. no monthly access charge) means the same thing as "no paid expansion content, ever." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxx.1279 Posted February 24, 2018 Author Share Posted February 24, 2018 @Ashen.2907 said:@maxx.1279 said:@Ashen.2907 said:@maxx.1279 said:@Ashen.2907 said:@maxx.1279 said:@Ashen.2907 said:@Dayra.7405 said:If you do not buy an expansion your a 2nd class citizen, if you do not buy 2 expansions, you are a 3rd class citizien, and so on.And why the hell should that care ANet? You got and still have what you payed, but as you are unwilling to support the game anymore, why should the game support you anymore?He didnt say that he no longer supports the game. Its quite possible for a player who does not buy an expac to spend more on the game than someone who does.The original thing that attracted me to GW2 was buy the box and every thing else for in game currency, i am great at economy games and farming.I convert gold to gems and have spent over 13000 gems.. now I wasn't the one spending money on those gems so it depends on how you look at that. Is spending gems support? or is buying gold support?Not that it matters to my point much, as it is one of principal.To be fair, if you buy the one box then everything else related to that one box is either included, no additional charge to continue to play as long as you like.while you are technically correct. it is not comparable to its original condition which is my argument.Actually there is more content available included with the initial box, or for in game currency, than the original condition of the game.Anet has increased the value of what you bought without charging more real money.Value is subjective, would you pay $60 for the core game today?i said it was not comparable, i did not say that nothing had changed. Much of it has been improved. rewards for example. but those don't help me when i step out of the keep in WvW alone do they?Not just changed, increased in volume (and some would say quality). The non expansion version of the game has more than it did at launch. Its bigger.You are right in saying that it isnt comparable to the original release because right now non expansion owners, without spending a dime, have access to more than they did originally.I frequently step out alone in wvw. I tend to do a significant amount of wvw roaming in between pve releases. Among my preferred builds are some that do not include elite specs. Would I have preferred that elite specs not (often) represent power creep? Of course, but its still possible to play effectively without them.Well my complaint is simple playing the game is getting ridiculous. even in groups where i can still hold my own and get many kills.. WvW is is not fun because of new builds and ground placed aoe spam. cc is too common cripples immobilizes . and the DLC specs have far more survivable utility and burst damage.the nerfs that come down in the last patch i watch them gut core skills to balance DLC specs to each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 @maxx.1279 said:@"Fallesafe.5932" said:You're just deliberately conflating "no subscription fee" with "no paid expansion content." The two have nothing to do with each other. Here's an ebay link to a GW2 box from 2012. Please scour the front and back side for any commitment other than "No subscription fee" (i.e. no monthly access charge). https://m.ebay.com/itm/Guild-Wars-2-PC-2012/142668766377?epid=59371869&hash=item2137b89ca9:g:-ysAAOSwI8laIybLI never set eyes on a box. this is a red herring.If your honestly trying to say that all of the discussion pre-launch doesn't matter at all I'm going to consider your remarks as a troll.All of the pre-launch dicussion did not exclude the possibility of paid expansions. Again, you have access to everything you paid for. Anet has actually increased the amount of content included in with the core game, without asking for more money from non expansion buyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallesafe.5932 Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 ...............(duplicate) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxx.1279 Posted February 24, 2018 Author Share Posted February 24, 2018 @Ashen.2907 said:@maxx.1279 said:@"Fallesafe.5932" said:You're just deliberately conflating "no subscription fee" with "no paid expansion content." The two have nothing to do with each other. Here's an ebay link to a GW2 box from 2012. Please scour the front and back side for any commitment other than "No subscription fee" (i.e. no monthly access charge). https://m.ebay.com/itm/Guild-Wars-2-PC-2012/142668766377?epid=59371869&hash=item2137b89ca9:g:-ysAAOSwI8laIybLI never set eyes on a box. this is a red herring.If your honestly trying to say that all of the discussion pre-launch doesn't matter at all I'm going to consider your remarks as a troll.All of the pre-launch dicussion did not exclude the possibility of paid expansions. Again, you have access to everything you paid for. Anet has actually increased the amount of content included in with the core game, without asking for more money from non expansion buyers.I never said it excluded that, they probably mentioned it as a hope. that isn't my argument.I wont pay them for power in wvw. that will never change. they said every thing would be in the gem store, i waited for it to show up there, and while i waited i saw they were selling power. WILL NOT COMPLY.As far as I am concerned if POWER is not attainable within game and only for cash I will not support that business practicethis is why I do not call it expansion I call it DLC. I have no complaints about the expansion people can pay for stories and content and raiding.the economy is being deflated by "pay for drops", but that's a different issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallesafe.5932 Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 @maxx.1279 said:they said every thing would be in the gem store[citation needed] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWMagimay.9057 Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 @"maxx.1279" said:ProverbsofHell So, if you buy a game that says you will only pay the box price, and a year later they say pay more. you say the answer is pay more or leave. how is your response any different than our first class elite citizen Dayra?But they didn't say "pay more". You still have the box you bought and can play everything that came in that box without spending any money. HoT and PoF are both new boxes with new stuff in them and if you want that stuff, you have to buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 @maxx.1279 said:@Ashen.2907 said:@maxx.1279 said:@"Fallesafe.5932" said:You're just deliberately conflating "no subscription fee" with "no paid expansion content." The two have nothing to do with each other. Here's an ebay link to a GW2 box from 2012. Please scour the front and back side for any commitment other than "No subscription fee" (i.e. no monthly access charge). https://m.ebay.com/itm/Guild-Wars-2-PC-2012/142668766377?epid=59371869&hash=item2137b89ca9:g:-ysAAOSwI8laIybLI never set eyes on a box. this is a red herring.If your honestly trying to say that all of the discussion pre-launch doesn't matter at all I'm going to consider your remarks as a troll.All of the pre-launch dicussion did not exclude the possibility of paid expansions. Again, you have access to everything you paid for. Anet has actually increased the amount of content included in with the core game, without asking for more money from non expansion buyers.I never said it excluded that, they probably mentioned it as a hope. that isn't my argument.I wont pay them for power in wvw. that will never change. they said every thing would be in the gem store, i waited for it to show up there, and while i waited i saw they were selling power. WILL NOT COMPLY.As far as I am concerned if POWER is not attainable within game and only for cash I will not support that business practicethis is why I do not call it expansion I call it DLC. I have no complaints about the expansion people can pay for stories and content and raiding.the economy is being deflated by "pay for drops", but that's a different issue.Can you provide a link to where Anet said everything will be in the gemstore?I played gw1 from shortly after launch and tried to follow gw2's development as closely as possible, and I never saw such a claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasdwer.3721 Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 what class do you play? there are core builds like sdcorethief, hammerguard, greatsword/axe warrior that are core only and are better/on par with most elite specs in spvp/wvw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoSundown.5419 Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 @ maxxBefore buying a product, it is a good idea to look at the company's history. The original GW game was followed up in short order and in succession by two new campaigns, then an expansion. Each introduced new things to the game that affected PvP play. That was (and is) ANet's business model, which a little research would have told you. As it is, even buying a year after launch, you had ~2 years before HoT, and another ~2 years before PoF. Compare that to the money outlay for other MMO's, or other games. At least to me, it compares favorably.I recall ANet at one point saying they had no plans for an XPac, and would add things to the game via Living World as long as that was financially viable. I neither heard nor saw a promise that players would be able to pay once and forever stay current with no more cash outlay. I think it likely that you read that into what was said.I have some sympathy for your complaint. However, I doubt very much that this is an issue of fairness. The business model is, I believe, a result of the financial realities of running a studio whose only product is an MMO. Given the competition in the MMO genre, expecting to remain forever current without further spending is a pipe dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxx.1279 Posted February 24, 2018 Author Share Posted February 24, 2018 @IndigoSundown.5419 said:@ maxxBefore buying a product, it is a good idea to look at the company's history. The original GW game was followed up in short order and in succession by two new campaigns, then an expansion. Each introduced new things to the game that affected PvP play. That was (and is) ANet's business model, which a little research would have told you. As it is, even buying a year after launch, you had ~2 years before HoT, and another ~2 years before PoF. Compare that to the money outlay for other MMO's, or other games. At least to me, it compares favorably.I recall ANet at one point saying they had no plans for an XPac, and would add things to the game via Living World as long as that was financially viable. I neither heard nor saw a promise that players would be able to pay once and forever stay current with no more cash outlay. I think it likely that you read that into what was said.I have some sympathy for your complaint. However, I doubt very much that this is an issue of fairness. The business model is, I believe, a result of the financial realities of running a studio whose only product is an MMO. Given the competition in the MMO genre, expecting to remain forever current without further spending is a pipe dream.Are you the gaming consumer training officer? or the corporate forum agent?.......I watched the live streams and they talked about what they wanted to accomplish.... I bought a new computer that could run the game and bought a copy.and I already said"I never said it excluded that, they probably mentioned it as a hope. that isn't my argument.I wont pay them for power in wvw. that will never change. they said every thing would be in the gem store, i waited for it to show up there, and while i waited i saw they were selling power."Some people have argued this was an issue of not increasing level cap. but that still would have broken wvw. and basically is what happened, you just didn't have to regear this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxx.1279 Posted February 24, 2018 Author Share Posted February 24, 2018 @Kasdwer.3721 said:what class do you play? there are core builds like sdcorethief, hammerguard, greatsword/axe warrior that are core only and are better/on par with most elite specs in spvp/wvwi play all classes.Yes i have been trying to change to those builds but flexibility and re gearing has been an issue. the builds are spvp builds that break in wvw same as my necro. they are also not usable for zerging which is much of wvw. and have less escape potential and damage than dlc specs..but this is the point less options. less viable options. no access to bis food. oils and food changed to DLC only stats... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 This thread again shows us why anet is tight liped about saying anything about whats coming or when since some players read it then invent what they want to have and say anet said it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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