Hammer should be reworked as a melee/range hybrid weapon

[Doctor.1384]

This weapon has no synergy with any of the rev legends since all of the legends are designed for melee. The only legend where it sort of works is shiro because of the back step, but even here you have no need for phase traversal and will rarely be in range for jade winds.What I propose is for hammer 1 to be a melee attack chain, and for hammer 3 to be a leap which chains into a skill that lets you return to your original position. 2 is fine, 5 is fine. I think this would combo well because you can use 5->2->3 and then maybe vengeful hammers or something.For the auto attack chain we could have 2 slow attacks and then on the third hit you slam your hammer into the ground and attack in a 2 or 300 aoe around you.

[Kaiser.9873]

@Doctor.1384 said:This weapon has no synergy with any of the rev legends since all of the legends are designed for melee. The only legend where it sort of works is shiro because of the back step, but even here you have no need for phase traversal and will rarely be in range for jade winds.What I propose is for hammer 1 to be a melee attack chain, and for hammer 3 to be a leap which chains into a skill that lets you return to your original position. 2 is fine, 5 is fine. I think this would combo well because you can use 5->2->3 and then maybe vengeful hammers or something.For the auto attack chain we could have 2 slow attacks and then on the third hit you slam your hammer into the ground and attack in a 2 or 300 aoe around you.

So then all of our weapons except terrible shortbow can be melee? No ty.

[MachineManXX.9746]

I'm quite happy with hammer just the way it is.

[Doctor.1384]

@Kaiser.9873 said:

@Doctor.1384 said:This weapon has no synergy with any of the rev legends since all of the legends are designed for melee. The only legend where it sort of works is shiro because of the back step, but even here you have no need for phase traversal and will rarely be in range for jade winds.What I propose is for hammer 1 to be a melee attack chain, and for hammer 3 to be a leap which chains into a skill that lets you return to your original position. 2 is fine, 5 is fine. I think this would combo well because you can use 5->2->3 and then maybe vengeful hammers or something.For the auto attack chain we could have 2 slow attacks and then on the third hit you slam your hammer into the ground and attack in a 2 or 300 aoe around you.

So then all of our weapons except terrible shortbow can be melee? No ty.

Alright, I understand needing a core ranged weapon, but I still think it should have some sort of melee functionality so it can work better with the melee oriented design of the class.

[Buran.3796]

@Doctor.1384 said:

Alright, I understand needing a core ranged weapon, but I still think it should have some sort of melee functionality so it can work better with the melee oriented design of the class.

Phase Traversal > unblockable CoR > unblockable Phase Smash > unblockable Hammer Bolt... (change the order if you want). I think that hammer does fine as it is, and is on the verge of becoming trash for WvW in the next patch. Since the only positive thing ANet did in patches with the class was to make the game to remember your water Legends and a few minor things (like keeping your upkeeps while mounting) I vote against changes. Changes in Revenant almost always means worse. Also, the best way to have a better mele functionality with the hammer is to wield a diferent loadout.

[Justine.6351]

I use both jade winds and phase traversal on my hammer rev.

If you are always at 1200 range you are only being half as effective as you could be. There are other skills beyond CoR.

[Crossaber.8934]

@Doctor.1384 said:This weapon has no synergy with any of the rev legends since all of the legends are designed for melee. The only legend where it sort of works is shiro because of the back step, but even here you have no need for phase traversal and will rarely be in range for jade winds.What I propose is for hammer 1 to be a melee attack chain, and for hammer 3 to be a leap which chains into a skill that lets you return to your original position. 2 is fine, 5 is fine. I think this would combo well because you can use 5->2->3 and then maybe vengeful hammers or something.For the auto attack chain we could have 2 slow attacks and then on the third hit you slam your hammer into the ground and attack in a 2 or 300 aoe around you.

Who said hammer Rev do not use phase traversal and jade winds? I think Justine will want to speak with you...

O she already did... :open_mouth:

[Doctor.1384]

@Justine.6351 said:I use both jade winds and phase traversal on my hammer rev.

If you are always at 1200 range you are only being half as effective as you could be. There are other skills beyond CoR.

5 and 1 are 1200 range, even if it should remain a solely ranged weapon I dont see why 3 shouldnt be reworked as I previously mentioned.

[Justine.6351]

@Doctor.1384 said:

@Justine.6351 said:I use both jade winds and phase traversal on my hammer rev.

If you are always at 1200 range you are only being half as effective as you could be. There are other skills beyond CoR.

5 and 1 are 1200 range, even if it should remain a solely ranged weapon I dont see why 3 shouldnt be reworked as I previously mentioned.

They have pretty much stopped making long range unconditional ground targeted blinks. While they could change phase smash to a 2 part skill, I find it unlikely.

What they could do with it is the continuum split treatment where regardless you are teleported back after x-duration or you can end it early. But I just don't see that happening as it opens the skill to exploiting. You can already do some interesting things with phase smash...

[otto.5684]

I think hammer will be good in sPvP if they changed skill 5 to something that can be either for kiting or anti melee tool. If anything gets too close, your only tool is 3 then change weapon.

[Buran.3796]

Hammer is actually decent in PvP; #5 has the advantage that you can cancel the attack along the long casting and the animation is still displayed, so can be used to deceive enemy players and bait them to waste evades/blocks in a false attack (at least, until ANet decides that is a bug and "needs to be fixed"). Is also a very strong and safe (very long range) tool against enemy rezz (huge AoE knockdown + solid damage). I think that any change they would implement into Rev's weapons at PvP would be a nerf, so I don't want news in that department.

[messiah.1908]

@"Buran.3796" said:Hammer is actually decent in PvP; #5 has the advantage that you can cancel the attack along the long casting and the animation is still displayed, so can be used to deceive enemy players and bait them to waste evades/blocks in a false attack (at least, until ANet decides that is a bug and "needs to be fixed"). Is also a very strong and safe (very long range) tool against enemy rezz (huge AoE knockdown + solid damage). I think that any change they would implement into Rev's weapons at PvP would be a nerf, so I don't want news in that department.

hammer in pvp is way to slow. thief , mesmer and even lb guard and ranger will eat you alive.

i would give hammer in pvp faster activation time. AA 0.75, #5 1 sec and kb not kdfield of the mist reflect

[Buran.3796]

@"messiah.1908" said:

hammer in pvp is way to slow. thief , mesmer and even lb guard and ranger will eat you alive.

Like this?:

Hammer can be slow but hits like a truck, has frame evades and can be combined with sword in the swap to have a very capable low range + mele build. And the hammer was even more capable before they butchered Impossible Odds. I had a lot more success fighting mesmers and thieves in both Conquest and WvW roaming since I ditched the staff for the hammer in both game modes; those classes oftenly used mobility to disengage and reset the fight when they got hurt, but with the hammer can down a weakened foe in a CoR or two auto attacks, so they fall like flies any time they try to flee away. I don't think that a long bow DH has a chance vs hammer Rev if both players are equal on skill; Field of the Mist is really strong negating projectiles and Rev has much broad access to unblockable attacks than the DH. Rangers are the trully though foes of those four, but mostly because their sustain and not due hammer weakness. Of course, if they keep thrashing vuln procs, fury procs, access to swiftness and hammer's damage it will finally end in the land of "no one will ever use this" aka Renegade's short bow.

[messiah.1908]

@Buran.3796 said:

@"messiah.1908" said:

hammer in pvp is way to slow. thief , mesmer and even lb guard and ranger will eat you alive.

Like this?:

Hammer can be slow but hits like a truck, has frame evades and can be combined with sword in the swap to have a very capable low range + mele build. And the hammer was even more capable before they butchered Impossible Odds. I had a lot more success fighting mesmers and thieves in both Conquest and WvW roaming since I ditched the staff for the hammer in both game modes; those classes oftenly used mobility to disengage and reset the fight when they got hurt, but with the hammer can down a weakened foe in a CoR or two auto attacks, so they fall like flies any time they try to flee away. I don't think that a long bow DH has a chance vs hammer Rev if both players are equal on skill; Field of the Mist is really strong negating projectiles and Rev has much broad access to unblockable attacks than the DH. Rangers are the trully though foes of those four, but mostly because their sustain and not due hammer weakness. Of course, if they keep thrashing vuln procs, fury procs, access to swiftness and hammer's damage it will finally end in the land of "no one will ever use this" aka Renegade's short bow.

the video shown how to kill with sword. hammer hardly did much (watch only 4 fights). hammer 5 didnt hit anything. AA also didnt hit. only #2 once.its true if it hits it can be huge dmg thus mainly used in zvz as it easy to hit something. but in small fight and pvp is too weak cause its slow . too slow

[Justine.6351]

In small scale its mainly only good for pug stomping.In 1v1 scenarios its good if you out skill and also is acceptable vs a few select builds otherwise but tbh replacing hammer with s/s would be better in these occasions anyhow (I run it hammer/staff).

Hammers main novelty is the ability to safe play on power rev from range and to bait players into thinking you are a free kill. This ironically makes hammer kind of good, in a twisted way.

[Doctor.1384]

@Justine.6351 said:In small scale its mainly only good for pug stomping.In 1v1 scenarios its good if you out skill and also is acceptable vs a few select builds otherwise but tbh replacing hammer with s/s would be better in these occasions anyhow (I run it hammer/staff).

Hammers main novelty is the ability to safe play on power rev from range and to bait players into thinking you are a free kill. This ironically makes hammer kind of good, in a twisted way.

I think playing from range and baiting players into charging into you is what you do anyways on power rev (s/x staff). 4/5 s/s/axe skills can already be used at 450 range or more

[narcx.3570]

@Doctor.1384 said:This weapon has no synergy with any of the rev legends since all of the legends are designed for melee.

This is why I always said that a condi ranged weapon was the last thing we needed... Yet people begged and begged for one, and we got it, and surprise(!) it's terrible because you can't use any of your utilities from range. :expressionless:

With the upcoming Coalescence of Ruin ubernerf coming, Hammer 2 is probably not even going to be worth the energy to cast... They might as well just make hammer one a ranged aa and hammer 2 a melee aa, and just have it be the land version of the goofy spear.

[Justine.6351]

@narcx.3570 said:

@Doctor.1384 said:This weapon has no synergy with any of the rev legends since all of the legends are designed for melee.

This is why I always said that a condi ranged weapon was the last thing we needed... Yet people begged and begged for one, and we got it, and surprise(!) it's terrible because you can't use any of your utilities from range. :expressionless:

With the upcoming Coalescence of Ruin ubernerf coming, Hammer 2 is probably not even going to be worth the energy to cast... They might as well just make hammer one a ranged aa and hammer 2 a melee aa, and just have it be the land version of the goofy spear.

Can you imagine the tears if we got spear 2 in place of hammer 2? The carnage would be hilarious!

[narcx.3570]

@Justine.6351 said:

@narcx.3570 said:

@"Doctor.1384" said:This weapon has no synergy with any of the rev legends since all of the legends are designed for melee.

This is why I always said that a condi ranged weapon was the last thing we needed... Yet people begged and begged for one, and we got it, and surprise(!) it's terrible because you can't use any of your utilities from range. :expressionless:

With the upcoming Coalescence of Ruin ubernerf coming, Hammer 2 is probably not even going to be worth the energy to cast... They might as well just make hammer one a ranged aa and hammer 2 a melee aa, and just have it be the land version of the goofy spear.

Can you imagine the tears if we got spear 2 in place of hammer 2? The carnage would be hilarious!

LOL, seriously... People love to qq about revenant's underwater state and not being able to use Glint or whatever, but it's like, "Brah, do you even spear 2?"

[Rasp Sabreblade.5421]

I think the hammer is fine.

However, if Anet was going to change the hammer, then I would want them to change all the weapons. So go back to the no weapon swap idea, BUT then the weapons do something different for each legend you are using.
So a sword for shiro is what it is, but a sword for kalla does something different. Maybe the hammer would remain the same for Shiro, but becomes a melee weapon for Jalis, or stays long range for venturi but is more about mitigation then damage.

[Justine.6351]

@Rasp Sabreblade.5421 said:I think the hammer is fine.

However, if Anet was going to change the hammer, then I would want them to change all the weapons. So go back to the no weapon swap idea, BUT then the weapons do something different for each legend you are using.

So a sword for shiro is what it is, but a sword for kalla does something different. Maybe the hammer would remain the same for Shiro, but becomes a melee weapon for Jalis, or stays long range for venturi but is more about mitigation then damage.

Honestly sounds like a worse staff ele that not only removes what little control we already have over our skill sets but also is a mish-mash play styles.