KreatE.7612 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 I've been at the top of NA ladder for the majority of season 10, and the MMR system/ rating system is so ridiculously broken I finally got fed up to post about it. Hopefully Anet wakes up and does something or at least acknowledges how fucked it is.On NA ladder, if you are 1700+ or even 1600+, you are the majority of the time, the highest rated player on your team. The higher you are, the more lopsided the teams become. The MMR algorithm for team matching tries to average the two teams so that they are as close in average rating as possible. But this doesn't work when you have an outlier. If you are 1700+ rating, you will have the four lowest players in your game vs the 5 other highest. This is near-impossible to win. A bug caused this for YEARS unintentionally and it plagued the game. They acknowledged it was busted and fixed it, but now with lower player populations it's returning in this new form. This makes the actually games incredibly un-fun as it causes total stomps one way or the other where I'm trying my heart out to carry anchors.But that is only one side of the issue, the second side is how it rewards/penalizes rating. You are given rating based on your personal rating vs the average of the game, regardless of how good you team is. As mentioned previously, the team average maybe the same meaning the system says you have a 50/50 chance to win. As discussed previously, this is often untrue due to outliers, but you STILL don't gain/lose points based on the team average. What this causes is high rated players to get almost nothing for a win (my personal best was +3 so far), and absolutely crushing for losses (-20 is not uncommon) when the teams are constantly stacked against you. Meaning you need to maintain a 7-1 win/loss to climb at all after a certain threshold (roughly 1700 NA).I'm convinced at this point that the overall rating pool out there (the total rating of all players combined), is depreciating due to this effect. Or from my perspective, it feels like it has to be, depressing ratings further. But the main point, to maintain a high rating once you achieve it, literally, not figuratively, the best play is to NOT PLAY ANY MORE GAMES. This is bullshit, and is part of the reason high skilled players don't play more games, further hurting the high lvl pvp scene.Solutions:Make gains/losses EITHER1.) Based on personal rating away from game average for BOTH gains/losses. Meaning if you lose a game where you're rating is far away from the average, win/loss you'll go up or down a small amount. This would prevent high rated players going to infinity, but not punish them for WANTING to play games.2.) Make gains/losses based on team average vs other team average. This would be fair, but the obvious problem is players with high win rates would go to infinity.Matchmaking:The simplest and most obvious solution, is to get 10 players as close in rating as possible, and randomize the teams. This prevents series of games where everyone is on the same, whcih happens a lot. And is totally fair. It may make games imbalanced here and there, but at least it would prevent chronic issues that plague every game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thane.9421 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 I've posted about this before, and so have others. I like your solution suggestions. I think it's very important to emphasize that as things are, the whole ranked system basically begs higher ranked players to play as little as possible. Maybe just barely enough to get minimum games and avoid decay. This is doubly true now that you are limited to solo queue only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeLZedaR.4790 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 I think the first solution you suggested is the best one. You still should lose more than you gain though, but not 7/1 ratio kind of stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougre.6543 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Certainly any thrill of climbing the leaderboards vanishes when you realize how much players of a lower rating and/or skill can absolutely destroy whatever efforts you've made while you yourself are giving it all you can. It's so out of one's control.Feels great having to pay attention to the time of day you're queuing at only so the matchmaker doesn't throw the worst possible players at you when it shouldn't even be possible for someone 600 lower than yourself to get into your game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saiyan.1704 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Instead of a randomization, MM should just be smarter and take tabs on who's on who's team. Being matched with the same players for 2 or 3 games in a row should have matchmaking prioritize a different team variation OVER average team mmr.Though this can get even more complicated if you have multiple 1600+ or 1700+ players, who's to say two 1600+ players gets swapped out from your team and you're the only 1600+ person on your team? Things like that can become lopsided quite quickly. Same goes for a randomized MMR team on each side, there's always the luck of a higher mmr team on the opposite end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Another important part about this to point out is how it looks good on paper "numerically" to have a high with lows vs. a bunch of averages. The average party MMR vs. average party MMR could even be the exact same to the single integer, which looks perfectly balanced but it is not for the one reason of how conquest is actually played. The high MMR could be winning fights all game, holding every node his color wherever he is at, and never dies. However, his low teammates are getting crunched on the other two nodes the entire game by the averages on the opposing team. This generally results in what higher MMR players refer to as "uncarriable games" and it is also a large factor as to why so many opt in to begin match manipulation/win trading tactics to maintain ratings above 1700 or nowadays even 1600 due to so much casual win trading.Not even sure what to suggest to fix the problem but it would be a great start for Arenanet to acknowledge this problem to begin with. The first step to solving a problem is accepting that there is one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egorum.9506 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 +1. I've legit stopped trying. Fix your fucking mm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan.9387 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Are you queuing during primetime? I only get +3s if it's 4am or so est. Primetime games are usually ~+10/-18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malediktus.9250 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 I guess the MMR system is the only way to make sure top 10 people cannot farm MMR. It puts a soft cap on the amount of MMR you can have. Otherwise rank 1 might have 1000 MMR more than 2nd place, just by playing a lot more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeceiverX.8361 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 This is a problem, but equally or more concerning is that a game so popular and successful is losing players in its competitive modes so quickly that it's become a problem again.That's indicative of substantially more pressing/bigger problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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