Marksmanship Minors

[Miles Smiles.8951]

Isn't "opening strike" just a terrible mechanic? How would you, guys, change these absolutely-trash-unless-you-go-Remorseless minor traits so they start making any sense in sPvP at this point?

[Wondrouswall.7169]

Minor traitsOpening Strikes - as-is.Precise Strike - as-is but moved from grandmaster minor down to master minor.Relentless - Refresh Opening Strike for you and your pet when you grant Fury to yourself or kill a foe.

Grandmaster traitsPredator's Onslaught - You and your Pet deal +15% damage vs movement-impeded and disabled foes. Opening Strikes also apply Cripple (2s).Remorseless - Opening Strikes deal +25% more damage. Gaining Opening Strikes grant 5 Might (5s) - Combat Only.Lead the Wind - Longbow skills recharge faster, pierce, and attack faster. Refresh Opening Strike when gaining Stealth.

Gotta change things so refreshing it is a minor trait to be accessible for all builds. Then, all GM traits need to interact. Should be solid in all modes then.

[Krispera.5087]

@Wondrouswall.7169 said:Relentless - Refresh Opening Strike for you and your pet when you grant Fury to yourself or kill a foe.

That would make a lot of sense with Clarion Bond, Brutish Seal, Skirmishing swapping traits, WS/WK trait and other fury applications from Ranger.

I believe they nerfed Remorseless because of Strength of the Pack. Or was it an indirect nerf from removing pulsing Stability ? Back then, I was using an Axe/Warhorn buffed 25 might and fury Smokescale + Remorseless to send on people to kill them, but I wasn't aware that was OP, because nobody played such a glassy build.

[Zuko.7132]

I really like these changes. Better than the ones I had in mind.

[OGDeadHead.8326]

@"Wondrouswall.7169" said:Minor traitsOpening Strikes - as-is.Precise Strike - as-is but moved from grandmaster minor down to master minor.Relentless - Refresh Opening Strike for you and your pet when you grant Fury to yourself or kill a foe.

Grandmaster traitsPredator's Onslaught - You and your Pet deal +15% damage vs movement-impeded and disabled foes. Opening Strikes also apply Cripple (2s).Remorseless - Opening Strikes deal +25% more damage. Gaining Opening Strikes grant 5 Might (5s) - Combat Only.Lead the Wind - Longbow skills recharge faster, pierce, and attack faster. Refresh Opening Strike when gaining Stealth.

Gotta change things so refreshing it is a minor trait to be accessible for all builds. Then, all GM traits need to interact. Should be solid in all modes then.

This makes too much sense, meaning Anet will never implement changes like these.

Also, about your "Relentless" trait - do you mean for that to only refresh opening strike when you yourself grant fury, and not like whenever you gain fury?

[Wondrouswall.7169]

@"OGDeadHead.8326" said:This makes too much sense, meaning Anet will never implement changes like these.

Also, about your "Relentless" trait - do you mean for that to only refresh opening strike when you yourself grant fury, and not like whenever you gain fury?

I know, right? But here's hoping. And it's when applying fury to yourself rather than gaining fury in general. I used to suggest the minor refresh with gaining fury from any source, but someone always chimes in saying that would be too powerful, so I just pitch a tuned down version of it ever since.

Still not bad with all sources of fury considered Ranger can apply to themselves.

[InsaneQR.7412]

@Wondrouswall.7169 said:Minor traitsOpening Strikes - as-is.Precise Strike - as-is but moved from grandmaster minor down to master minor.Relentless - Refresh Opening Strike for you and your pet when you grant Fury to yourself or kill a foe.

Grandmaster traitsPredator's Onslaught - You and your Pet deal +15% damage vs movement-impeded and disabled foes. Opening Strikes also apply Cripple (2s).Remorseless - Opening Strikes deal +25% more damage. Gaining Opening Strikes grant 5 Might (5s) - Combat Only.Lead the Wind - Longbow skills recharge faster, pierce, and attack faster. Refresh Opening Strike when gaining Stealth.

Gotta change things so refreshing it is a minor trait to be accessible for all builds. Then, all GM traits need to interact. Should be solid in all modes then.

Personally i would make the longbow pierce baseline on AA and Rapid Fire. And instead of increased attack speed OS should give Quickness. This would be less useful for LB but would have more use for other weapons too.

If remorseless should give might they should change hunters gaze. I mean we can already get a good portion of might, Hunters Gaze would be a fantastic Fury Tool IMO. Gain fury when you hit foes under the threshholds. Ofc we can already get huge portions of fury so if someone has a better idea your welcome.Thressholds: 66% , 33%

[Wondrouswall.7169]

@InsaneQR.7412 said:If remorseless should give might they should change hunters gaze.

Hunter's Gaze is the reason I always suggest 5 Might (5s) with Remorseless. Hunter's Gaze can stack a decent amount of might, but due to the threshold beginning at 75%, 1s ICD, and moderate base duration of 5s, it only seemed fitting (to me) that they pair together.

Deal burst damage with a decent chunk of Might and if the target is alive, what Might gained if paired with Hunter's Gaze keeps that momentum rolling. Also allows might stacking within Marksmanship when fury applications are on cooldown.

I dare not take that flexible option away in trade for altering Hunter's Gaze to grant fury since every trait that does so when striking a foe beneath a certain threshold usually comes with an 8s or 10s ICD. With the current Hunter's Gaze, we'll get more.

Plus, I don't like keeping tabs on an ICD that could waste the burst of Remorseless on something like an auto attack - which is why I also dislike the fury application of Two-Handed Training. Might is just so much easier to work with since hitting any attack with it is good.

Longbow is another topic though. I just copy/paste the current GM functions there + OS interaction.

[InsaneQR.7412]

@Wondrouswall.7169 said:

@InsaneQR.7412 said:If remorseless should give might they should change hunters gaze.

Hunter's Gaze is the reason I always suggest 5 Might (5s) with Remorseless. Hunter's Gaze can stack a decent amount of might, but due to the threshold beginning at 75%, 1s ICD, and moderate base duration of 5s, it only seemed fitting (to me) that they pair together.

Deal burst damage with a decent chunk of Might and if the target is alive, what Might gained if paired with Hunter's Gaze keeps that momentum rolling. Also allows might stacking within Marksmanship when fury applications are on cooldown.

I dare not take that flexible option away in trade for altering Hunter's Gaze to grant fury since every trait that does so when striking a foe beneath a certain threshold usually comes with an 8s or 10s ICD. With the current Hunter's Gaze, we'll get more.

Plus, I don't like keeping tabs on an ICD that could waste the burst of Remorseless on something like an auto attack - which is why I also dislike the fury application of Two-Handed Training. Might is just so much easier to work with since hitting any attack with it is good.

Longbow is another topic though. I just copy/paste the current GM functions there + OS interaction.

Hunters Gaze is an inferior Version of Companions Might actually so i came just up with an idea.

Hunters Gaze: Effect of Companions Might, so every crit gives your pet might and every crit of your pet gives it to you.

Farsighted: Current effect but only depending in range not on projectiles.Plus: Pet gains increased precision.

Two Handed Training: Gain might instead of Fury. This is to prevent wasted OS.

Companions Fury (Former Might): When using a weaponskill involving your pet, you both get Fury.

This includes:Hunters ShotWinters BiteCrippling ShotMaulPrecision SwipeDouble Arc

So on every possible weaponset you will have one attack you can utilize to gain OS.

Tgis would give good cross synergy and a nice OS availability for many playstyles.Only oddball here is sword with precision swipe but this way you can utilize it for more consistent dmg.

[Wondrouswall.7169]

I always thought Hunter's Gaze was more flexible than Companion's Might (in terms of generating might for the player) since it doesn't depend on critical chance, the pet's critical chance, and gets stronger the lower health a target has. But, we're getting off topic as far as Opening Strike is concerned. Might have to continue this on another thread

[InsaneQR.7412]

@Wondrouswall.7169 said:I always thought Hunter's Gaze was more flexible than Companion's Might (in terms of generating might for the player) since it doesn't depend on critical chance, the pet's critical chance, and gets stronger the lower health a target has. But, we're getting off topic as far as Opening Strike is concerned. Might have to continue this on another thread

Yeah maybe i make one.

[Miles Smiles.8951]

idk it still feels like you opting for the Remorseless build mechanics with Marksmanship in general.

[Arrys.7145]

@"Miles Smiles.8951" said:Isn't "opening strike" just a terrible mechanic? How would you, guys, change these absolutely-trash-unless-you-go-Remorseless minor traits so they start making any sense in sPvP at this point?

Not exactly worthless. LongBow 3 to your heal as you close to melee to trigger a snare field(Soften the fall) then an opening strike at what +75% damage (+50% opening strike + 10% greatsword + 15% predators onslaught) with 100% crit chance(Precise strikes) on your maul coincident with smokescale f2 then swap pet to blast off clarion bond to another maul as above while activating zephyrs speed that ensures you run down a runner and land the second maul. It is pretty good burst with nothing but auto skills in it. 4 second delay on mauls lets you get two in. If needed.

Not sure I would say opening strikes sucks.

[Miles Smiles.8951]

@Arrys.7145 said:

@"Miles Smiles.8951" said:Isn't "opening strike" just a terrible mechanic? How would you, guys, change these absolutely-trash-unless-you-go-Remorseless minor traits so they start making any sense in sPvP at this point?

Not exactly worthless. LongBow 3 to your heal as you close to melee to trigger a snare field(Soften the fall) then an opening strike at what +75% damage (+50% opening strike + 10% greatsword + 15% predators onslaught) with 100% crit chance(Precise strikes) on your maul coincident with smokescale f2 then swap pet to blast off clarion bond to another maul as above while activating zephyrs speed that ensures you run down a runner and land the second maul. It is pretty good burst with nothing but auto skills in it. 4 second delay on mauls lets you get two in. If needed.

Not sure I would say opening strikes sucks.

Yes, mah boi, "not exactly worthless" if you go for those major traits you try to mention, with some of them being mutually exclusive btw, but those modifiers do exist, alright. What I tried to say was that minor traits - the ones you can't unpick - should make sense for all major trait choices in the same trait line.

[Zuko.7132]

@Miles Smiles.8951 said:

@Arrys.7145 said:

@Miles Smiles.8951 said:Isn't "opening strike" just a terrible mechanic? How would you, guys, change these absolutely-trash-unless-you-go-Remorseless minor traits so they start making any sense in sPvP at this point?

Not exactly worthless. LongBow 3 to your heal as you close to melee to trigger a snare field(Soften the fall) then an opening strike at what +75% damage (+50% opening strike + 10% greatsword + 15% predators onslaught) with 100% crit chance(Precise strikes) on your maul coincident with smokescale f2 then swap pet to blast off clarion bond to another maul as above while activating zephyrs speed that ensures you run down a runner and land the second maul. It is pretty good burst with nothing but auto skills in it. 4 second delay on mauls lets you get two in. If needed.

Not sure I would say opening strikes sucks.

Yes, mah boi, "not exactly worthless" if you go for those major traits you try to mention, with some of them being mutually exclusive btw, but those modifiers do exist, alright. What I tried to say was that minor traits - the ones you can't unpick - should make sense for all major trait choices in the same trait line.

Ya. As it stands now, in most situations you get a guaranteed crit on your first longbow attack from range (since you're probably gonna open with that) 5 vuln and two seconds of cripple then bye bye to three minor traits for the rest of the fight. It's really quite awful.

[Miles Smiles.8951]

@Zuko.7132 said:

@Miles Smiles.8951 said:

@Arrys.7145 said:

@Miles Smiles.8951 said:Isn't "opening strike" just a terrible mechanic? How would you, guys, change these absolutely-trash-unless-you-go-Remorseless minor traits so they start making any sense in sPvP at this point?

Not exactly worthless. LongBow 3 to your heal as you close to melee to trigger a snare field(Soften the fall) then an opening strike at what +75% damage (+50% opening strike + 10% greatsword + 15% predators onslaught) with 100% crit chance(Precise strikes) on your maul coincident with smokescale f2 then swap pet to blast off clarion bond to another maul as above while activating zephyrs speed that ensures you run down a runner and land the second maul. It is pretty good burst with nothing but auto skills in it. 4 second delay on mauls lets you get two in. If needed.

Not sure I would say opening strikes sucks.

Yes, mah boi, "not exactly worthless" if you go for those major traits you try to mention, with some of them being mutually exclusive btw, but those modifiers do exist, alright. What I tried to say was that minor traits - the ones you can't unpick - should make sense for all major trait choices in the same trait line.

Ya. As it stands now, in most situations you get a guaranteed crit on your first longbow attack from range (since you're probably gonna open with that) 5 vuln and two seconds of cripple then bye bye to three minor traits for the rest of the fight. It's really quite awful.

yup, or not even that sometimes if you have to open on a guard with aegis.

[Zuko.7132]

@Miles Smiles.8951 said:

@Zuko.7132 said:

@Miles Smiles.8951 said:

@Arrys.7145 said:

@Miles Smiles.8951 said:Isn't "opening strike" just a terrible mechanic? How would you, guys, change these absolutely-trash-unless-you-go-Remorseless minor traits so they start making any sense in sPvP at this point?

Not exactly worthless. LongBow 3 to your heal as you close to melee to trigger a snare field(Soften the fall) then an opening strike at what +75% damage (+50% opening strike + 10% greatsword + 15% predators onslaught) with 100% crit chance(Precise strikes) on your maul coincident with smokescale f2 then swap pet to blast off clarion bond to another maul as above while activating zephyrs speed that ensures you run down a runner and land the second maul. It is pretty good burst with nothing but auto skills in it. 4 second delay on mauls lets you get two in. If needed.

Not sure I would say opening strikes sucks.

Yes, mah boi, "not exactly worthless" if you go for those major traits you try to mention, with some of them being mutually exclusive btw, but those modifiers do exist, alright. What I tried to say was that minor traits - the ones you can't unpick - should make sense for all major trait choices in the same trait line.

Ya. As it stands now, in most situations you get a guaranteed crit on your first longbow attack from range (since you're probably gonna open with that) 5 vuln and two seconds of cripple then bye bye to three minor traits for the rest of the fight. It's really quite awful.

yup, or not even that sometimes if you have to open on a guard with aegis.

lol so true