Ashes of the just, is like venom?

[nuaa.4962]

I remeber talking about quickfire before PoF was release. But am i only one that noticed Ashes of just works kinda like venoms. All burns applied by it counts as mine own, so i see damage and it uses my condi damage.

Did super fast test earlier today with a guildie. I just gave AotJ, and him attacking gave me 3 burn stack (2 if quickfire).

[Jski.6180]

It looks like it dose so all the burning effects on gurd should carry over.

[Garimeth.8725]

mmmm, I'll double check, but i didn't feel like it was giving out MY burns on their attacks.

[Noah.4756]

I also noticed that the application of Ashes of the Just from Quickfire and Tome of Justice nr. 5 don't stack. Not sure how it works when you have multiple Firebrands applying it.

[RabbitUp.8294]

It is indeed a venom, it scales with your own stats now.

@Noah.4756 said:I also noticed that the application of Ashes of the Just from Quickfire and Tome of Justice nr. 5 don't stack. Not sure how it works when you have multiple Firebrands applying it.

That's true for venoms, as well, so it's to be expected.

[Lalainnia.3598]

Its a proper burn share is all its better than eles arcane power traited about time tbh never made sense eles had better burn share over guardians. Shares with all players it hits I think the cap is 5 ppl.

[Kain Francois.4328]

So this is a venom now? I remember reading that pre-update it wasn't.

Hm... Guess it's worth using.

[Garimeth.8725]

@RabbitUp.8294 said:It is indeed a venom, it scales with your own stats now.

@Noah.4756 said:I also noticed that the application of Ashes of the Just from Quickfire and Tome of Justice nr. 5 don't stack. Not sure how it works when you have multiple Firebrands applying it.

That's true for venoms, as well, so it's to be expected.

Has anybody actually tested this? When I was having a few people help me in the mists on Friday this is not what it looked like to me, but granted I didn't give it a very rigorous testing.

[RabbitUp.8294]

@Garimeth.8725 said:

@RabbitUp.8294 said:It is indeed a venom, it scales with your own stats now.

@Noah.4756 said:I also noticed that the application of Ashes of the Just from Quickfire and Tome of Justice nr. 5 don't stack. Not sure how it works when you have multiple Firebrands applying it.

That's true for venoms, as well, so it's to be expected.

Has anybody actually tested this? When I was having a few people help me in the mists on Friday this is not what it looked like to me, but granted I didn't give it a very rigorous testing.

It was confirmed in a qT video.

And you can test it on your own, go next to an ally that's fighting and give them Ashes, you will see burning numbers from the enemy and the damage will register in the log as your own. In the demo, it counted as the ally's damage and you didn't see floating numbers.

[Garimeth.8725]

@RabbitUp.8294 said:

@Garimeth.8725 said:

@RabbitUp.8294 said:It is indeed a venom, it scales with your own stats now.

@Noah.4756 said:I also noticed that the application of Ashes of the Just from Quickfire and Tome of Justice nr. 5 don't stack. Not sure how it works when you have multiple Firebrands applying it.

That's true for venoms, as well, so it's to be expected.

Has anybody actually tested this? When I was having a few people help me in the mists on Friday this is not what it looked like to me, but granted I didn't give it a very rigorous testing.

It was confirmed in a qT video.

And you can test it on your own, go next to an ally that's fighting and give them Ashes, you will see burning numbers from the enemy and the damage will register in the log as your own. In the demo, it counted as the ally's damage and you didn't see floating numbers.

I know i see the numbers as my own, its whether it is based off of my stats I am questioning. When i use it I see some burn ticks that are far lower than my own. I'm going to go double check in a bit.

[Garimeth.8725]

Ok I tested and you are right, it goes off your stats. I also found out the buff can be given to mesmer illusions and ranger pets.

[Cave Rock.4869]

@Garimeth.8725 said:Ok I tested and you are right, it goes off your stats. I also found out the buff can be given to mesmer illusions and ranger pets.

Wow Garimeth, that is super helpful to know. Cheers for the update on the Ashes of The Just grand master Firebrand trait.

From Cave Rock and Bluevoltron42.

[Alchimist.4738]

I just tested it in the mists, and yes it scales on your condition damage.That’s a bit disappointing from the point of view of support firebrand, pretty much means quickfire is useless since the burn share damage is going to be low, and it also explains why condition builds have such insane dps.

[RabbitUp.8294]

@Alchimist.4738 said:I just tested it in the mists, and yes it scales on your condition damage.That’s a bit disappointing from the point of view of support firebrand, pretty much means quickfire is useless since the burn share damage is going to be low, and it also explains why condition builds have such insane dps.

It's actually a big buff to support firebrand. Support guardian still builds condi, they just take enough boon duration to mantain perma-quickness. Before, with AotJ scaling with ally stats meant that it was only ever useful if your allies were condi, so in raids you were limited to the condi subgroup (if there was one), and in fractals, it was pure luck what the rest of the group is playing.

Old Ashes was the worst of both worlds, it wasn't a true group buff like GotL, that allowed firebrand to play support, ignoring its personal dps, and it wasn't as reliable as a venom. I would still prefer if we had a unique group buff, but at least we aren't stuck with the old version.

[Alchimist.4738]

I should have said it’s not useful on minstrel or commander support build, but it’s sort of useful with the new marshal stat (power, healing power + precision, condition damage).Edit: And I liked the idea of having a support dedicated to only boost condition damage group, it was a unique group buff, and synergized well with signet of wrath sharing.

[DoM.8396]

@Alchimist.4738 said:I should have said it’s not useful on minstrel or commander support build, but it’s sort of useful with the new marshal stat (power, healing power + precision, condition damage).Edit: And I liked the idea of having a support dedicated to only boost condition damage group, it was a unique group buff, and synergized well with signet of wrath sharing.

It's still damage that you can provide with limited GCD use. Condi damage or not, it's basically free damage when playing support.

[RabbitUp.8294]

@Alchimist.4738 said:I should have said it’s not useful on minstrel or commander support build, but it’s sort of useful with the new marshal stat (power, healing power + precision, condition damage).Edit: And I liked the idea of having a support dedicated to only boost condition damage group, it was a unique group buff, and synergized well with signet of wrath sharing.

Well, it wasn't a group buff, even before, even if it used ally stats. Unlike Sun Spirit, it's a fixed amount of burning stacks.

Firebrand cannot play with minstel or commander in pve, specifically because they have no group buff. Anet made the stupid desicion to make a support spec that relies on personal dps, so you either build for maximising your dps within the constraints of boon duration, or you have no place in a group.

[Alchimist.4738]

@RabbitUp.8294 said:

@Alchimist.4738 said:I should have said it’s not useful on minstrel or commander support build, but it’s sort of useful with the new marshal stat (power, healing power + precision, condition damage).Edit: And I liked the idea of having a support dedicated to only boost condition damage group, it was a unique group buff, and synergized well with signet of wrath sharing.

Well, it wasn't a group buff, even before, even if it used ally stats. Unlike Sun Spirit, it's a fixed amount of burning stacks.

Firebrand cannot play with minstel or commander in pve, specifically because they have no group buff. Anet made the stupid desicion to make a support spec that relies on personal dps, so you either build for maximising your dps within the constraints of boon duration, or you have no place in a group.

It wasn’t as good as sun spirit, in the sense that sun spirit has a better sustain in its burn sharing.

However it was a group support ability, quickfire gives 2 burns every 10sec + 3 bruns (with a 12sec cd) when using tome of justice, and then if you combined that with wrath of justice (activate signet of wrath and procs when using tome of justice) + perfect inscriptions (buff signet of wrath to 216 condition damage + allow signet sharing) you could give 432 condition damage (because signet of wrath can stack if shared with those two traits) for 10sec, which meant your ashes of the just dealt more damage because you just buffed you allied stat by 432, but now this build is worthless because ashes of the just scales on your condition damage and sharing 432 condition damage is not as beneficial.

I know it’s going to be an unpopular opinion, but if the devs look for a nerf on condition firebrand I hope one thing they'll look at is to make ashes of the just scale on your ally condition damage instead of yours, it’d be a smart nerf because it opens more possibility for support build.

[RabbitUp.8294]

@Alchimist.4738 said:

@RabbitUp.8294 said:

@Alchimist.4738 said:I should have said it’s not useful on minstrel or commander support build, but it’s sort of useful with the new marshal stat (power, healing power + precision, condition damage).Edit: And I liked the idea of having a support dedicated to only boost condition damage group, it was a unique group buff, and synergized well with signet of wrath sharing.

Well, it wasn't a group buff, even before, even if it used ally stats. Unlike Sun Spirit, it's a fixed amount of burning stacks.

Firebrand cannot play with minstel or commander in pve, specifically because they have no group buff. Anet made the stupid desicion to make a support spec that relies on personal dps, so you either build for maximising your dps within the constraints of boon duration, or you have no place in a group.

It wasn’t as good as sun spirit, in the sense that sun spirit has a better sustain in its burn sharing.

However it was a group support ability, quickfire gives 2 burns every 10sec + 3 bruns (with a 12sec cd) when using tome of justice, and then if you combined that with wrath of justice (activate signet of wrath and procs when using tome of justice) + perfect inscriptions (buff signet of wrath to 216 condition damage + allow signet sharing) you could give 432 condition damage (because signet of wrath can stack if shared with those two traits) for 10sec, which meant your ashes of the just dealt more damage because you just buffed you allied stat by 432, but now this build is worthless because ashes of the just scales on your condition damage and sharing 432 condition damage is not as beneficial.

I know it’s going to be an unpopular opinion, but if the devs look for a nerf on condition firebrand I hope one thing they'll look at is to make ashes of the just scale on your ally condition damage instead of yours, it’d be a smart nerf because it opens more possibility for support build.

It's not a group buff. Group buffs are not fixed damage, they scale. Sun Spirit scales with attack speed, GotL scales with damage, quickfire is fixed.

Literally, the only reason people keep parroting that Ashes is a group buff is because iot has the word "ally" in it. It's a venom, simple as that, even if it didn't scale with your own stats.

And no, returning Ashes to its previous iteration would be a straight nerf, even for support builds. Firebrand doesn't increase group damage in any way, so it has to rely on its personal dps. Signet sharing would be a bandaid to Ashes, and it would still perform worse than the current version.

[Azoqu.8917]

Since Ashes is a venom, would it make sense for a support FB to take basically the meta build (all viper's) but swap Zeal for Honor, runes of the renegade for firebrand, and take the quickness traits in FB over Unrelenting and Secret Lore?

[RabbitUp.8294]

@Azoqu.8917 said:Since Ashes is a venom, would it make sense for a support FB to take basically the meta build (all viper's) but swap Zeal for Honor, runes of the renegade for firebrand, and take the quickness traits in FB over Unrelenting and Secret Lore?

You don't need Honor at all. You can get perma quickness with firebrand runes, or just sigil of concentration. That would require hard casting Mantra of Potence. Or if you dislike casting mantras in combat, you can use both the rune and the sigil.

For the first option, you need 31% boon duration, for the second 64%. Alacrity reduces the requirements for both. For the second option, taking honour accounts for 20% of that boon duration, through bonus concentration, and Pure of Voice reducing the cooldown of FmW.