Do you think Elementalist class "balancing" is justified?

[Jski.6180]

All that left for staff ele i mean staff weaver (there is not reason to play core ele any more) is ice spike in a wvw environment. All of the duel skills are projcital and weaver has no means of making them unblockable as well as the 1 skills on staff. Eruption takes too longer to blow up. Air 2 you must look at ppl for the full cast. MS is only worth it with a 1 sec or less cast. Lava fount is weaker then most 1 skills.

All that is there for weaver to use in wvw is ice spike good job anet making weaver still unbelievably confused on its roll agen a water skills that blast being the most effective dmg in wvw.

[SnowHawk.3615]

This isn't the first time anet has done this to ele. It was their only long ranged weapon and now serves no purpose other than to... idk - because it has hardly any tank/heal capability. the cooldowns dont make up for the nerf that was unnecessary. I doubt any ele mains called for it- it was called for by the idiots who stood in meteor and didn't learn the 5 d's of dodgeball before hand. It sounds like a joke, but it's true. Ele doesn't do anything better than any other class except DPS. They don't heal better, they don't tank better, they don't have great condition dmg, every other class does something better than elementalist and now they (ele)does nothing better.

[VanWilder.6923]

@SnowHawk.3615 said:This isn't the first time anet has done this to ele. It was their only long ranged weapon and now serves no purpose other than to... idk - because it has hardly any tank/heal capability. the cooldowns dont make up for the nerf that was unnecessary. I doubt any ele mains called for it- it was called for by the idiots who stood in meteor and didn't learn the 5 d's of dodgeball before hand. It sounds like a joke, but it's true. Ele doesn't do anything better than any other class except DPS. They don't heal better, they don't tank better, they don't have great condition dmg, every other class does something better than elementalist and now they (ele)does nothing better.

Roul (weaver ele) from SnowCrows suggests Regenade after this kitten balance.

[MiskoV.3856]

I was hyped for Deadeye just before PoF released. Then it turned out to be dissapointing in terms of mechanics and usability and I was in love with my ele despite cursing at it 24/7.

Thanks to the recent changes, overall lack of idea of what to do with the class and its fundamental flaws (and the Deadeye tweak), I finally managed to switch my main after all those years (95% of playtime solemnly only on a single character since pre-launch, Tempest since Hot).

The current state of ele in general calls for a complete remake, not just a few tweaks. I could go into detail about how a 5s aura for 5 ppl is completely useless in pve compared to what other support classes can do as well as other obvious issues with the class but I give up.

[Jski.6180]

Look at the new rune set super speed +33% duration that you give out and super speed on leap this should be op to have a 6 sec super speed for 5 ppl ever 40 sec but its not its down right week because holo has super speed duration of 3 sec with no target cap on a 2 sec cd. If any thing Eye of the storm is weaker because of this because the last super speed effect cover over the older even if its less duration.

This is BAD balancing to the highest order. Its like ele and its eleit spec are not even part of GW2 at all like the class was made in some other game with a different set of rules comply.

[BlackBeard.2873]

@Jski.6180 said:Look at the new rune set super speed +33% duration that you give out and super speed on leap this should be op to have a 6 sec super speed for 5 ppl ever 40 sec but its not its down right week because holo has super speed duration of 3 sec with no target cap on a 2 sec cd. If any thing Eye of the storm is weaker because of this because the last super speed effect cover over the older even if its less duration.

This is BAD balancing to the highest order. Its like ele and its eleit spec are not even part of GW2 at all like the class was made in some other game with a different set of rules comply.

@Jski.6180 said:Look at the new rune set super speed +33% duration that you give out and super speed on leap this should be op to have a 6 sec super speed for 5 ppl ever 40 sec but its not its down right week because holo has super speed duration of 3 sec with no target cap on a 2 sec cd. If any thing Eye of the storm is weaker because of this because the last super speed effect cover over the older even if its less duration.

This is BAD balancing to the highest order. Its like ele and its eleit spec are not even part of GW2 at all like the class was made in some other game with a different set of rules comply.

The problem with ele has ALWAYS been complete lack of focus, and refusing to change directions when focus DOES change. For instance:

• Ele was one of the first classes designed, and it follows pretty well that "large effects have a large tell." Meteor shower takes a day to cast, lava font gives you a full second to avoid. Dragon's tooth gives you a week before falling. Even phoenix at launch was super-duper slow. This is because scepter was originally conceived as a melee weapon... and you can still feel it to this day. Even with its velocity DOUBLED in 2013, it is still effectively a melee skill. Trying to hit a dragon's tooth or shatterstone from range is insane, but if you consider dropping this aoe while punching something next to you...maybe it hits. These skills still bear that design legacy and never got properly updated for scepter being a medium-range weapon.

• At design time, ele was conceived as having this playstyle of constantly switching in and out of roles. Because of the number of skills available, while balancing, they trended toward watering down each individual skill compared to other classes, and weakened auto-attacks almost across the board to be garbage. The only good autos ele has EVER had (air 1 on dagger, fire 1 on staff, and arguably air 1 on scepter) were all buffed (usually multiple times after release). To avoid being OP, the class was forced into constantly using a rotation of skills that are each stronger than a typical auto-attack, but, for the most part, weaker than a typical 2-5 skill. This kind of worked...but it has caused problems down the road.

• Ele was always somehow supposed to be this "glass cannon" class, while also being this "jack of all trades" class, and it has impacted the development forever. It has the squishiest body, and had high base damage, but to survive, it had to be given all these extra tools. Since the game's inception, damage was almost never the problem, but always survival. The only successful ele builds in competitive spheres were ones that took every bit of defense possible, and got by with pretty good base damage and might stacking. Unfortunately, to prevent being OP, or due to poor design, every bit of defense has been primarily "soft mitigation" (protection + healing + soft CC) with very little hard mitigation (blocks, evades, invulns). It is no coincidence that the few hard mitigation options eles have, have been popular despite their extremely long CD's (armor of earth and mistform had 90s cooldowns, arcane shield had 75s CD to block 3 hits, etc)

• Tempest was originally conceived as a melee damage spec with sword. We had some data-mining showing a bunch of sword skills in development. Overloads being melee, and needing 5s to "charge up" (and thus requiring an effective auto-attack to fill the time), this all actually makes a lot of sense. When they failed to properly develop sword, they panicked, threw a bunch of auras, switched to a warhorn (which has the EASIEST animations ever, so no real artist time to make), and made it a support spec. However, there are still these clunky overloads that kinda want to dps, kinda want to damage, and the whole spec just seems like this "do everything" sort of spec.

• Weaver was conceived as a solid sword spec from the start, once they failed the first time with tempest. They included stances, which presumably would help you survive...and given the flow of the skills and inclusion of barrier, they really wanted to make this one a hybrid-damage bruiser. It makes sense, you are locked into super-close melee range with sword, so you need a sturdy body to stick around. However, they failed to account for exactly HOW squishy eles are, failed to give it the proper survival tools for melee range (not properly overcoming that ever-recurring issue) that might be OP on a super-tanky build in pvp, and so ONCE AGAIN they just made weaver a dps spec...AGAIN!!! They modified the other weapons, but AGAIN, ele is hurt by the terrible auto-attacks, as weaver forces you into an element for long periods of time. This is a large reason why only sword weaver truly worked, and raid weavers take all these conjures - to avoid the garbage autos. Once again, the spec was improperly conceived and largely fails to be a truly consistent design. When you look at even the traits and the skills, it is hard to tell what weaver is trying to do, and it just becomes another "do everything" kind of spec.

Oh well, I don't expect any of this to change until there is another person developing the class.

Edit: formatting.

[Jski.6180]

@BlackBeard.2873 said:

@Jski.6180 said:Look at the new rune set super speed +33% duration that you give out and super speed on leap this should be op to have a 6 sec super speed for 5 ppl ever 40 sec but its not its down right week because holo has super speed duration of 3 sec with no target cap on a 2 sec cd. If any thing Eye of the storm is weaker because of this because the last super speed effect cover over the older even if its less duration.

This is BAD balancing to the highest order. Its like ele and its eleit spec are not even part of GW2 at all like the class was made in some other game with a different set of rules comply.

@Jski.6180 said:Look at the new rune set super speed +33% duration that you give out and super speed on leap this should be op to have a 6 sec super speed for 5 ppl ever 40 sec but its not its down right week because holo has super speed duration of 3 sec with no target cap on a 2 sec cd. If any thing Eye of the storm is weaker because of this because the last super speed effect cover over the older even if its less duration.

This is BAD balancing to the highest order. Its like ele and its eleit spec are not even part of GW2 at all like the class was made in some other game with a different set of rules comply.

The problem with ele has ALWAYS been complete lack of focus, and refusing to change directions when focus DOES change. For instance:

• Ele was one of the first classes designed, and it follows pretty well that "large effects have a large tell." Meteor shower takes a day to cast, lava font gives you a full second to avoid. Dragon's tooth gives you a week before falling. Even phoenix at launch was super-duper slow. This is because scepter was originally conceived as a melee weapon... and you can still feel it to this day. Even with its velocity DOUBLED in 2013, it is still effectively a melee skill. Trying to hit a dragon's tooth or shatterstone from range is insane, but if you consider dropping this aoe while punching something next to you...maybe it hits. These skills still bear that design legacy and never got properly updated for scepter being a medium-range weapon.

• At design time, ele was conceived as having this playstyle of constantly switching in and out of roles. Because of the number of skills available, while balancing, they trended toward watering down each individual skill compared to other classes, and weakened auto-attacks almost across the board to be garbage. The only good autos ele has EVER had (air 1 on dagger, fire 1 on staff, and arguably air 1 on scepter) were all buffed (usually multiple times after release). To avoid being OP, the class was forced into constantly using a rotation of skills that are each stronger than a typical auto-attack, but, for the most part, weaker than a typical 2-5 skill. This kind of worked...but it has caused problems down the road.

• Ele was always somehow supposed to be this "glass cannon" class, while also being this "jack of all trades" class, and it has impacted the development forever. It has the squishiest body, and had high base damage, but to survive, it had to be given all these extra tools. Since the game's inception, damage was almost never the problem, but always survival. The only successful ele builds in competitive spheres were ones that took every bit of defense possible, and got by with pretty good base damage and might stacking. Unfortunately, to prevent being OP, or due to poor design, every bit of defense has been primarily "soft mitigation" (protection + healing + soft CC) with very little hard mitigation (blocks, evades, invulns). It is no coincidence that the few hard mitigation options eles have, have been popular despite their extremely long CD's (armor of earth and mistform had 90s cooldowns, arcane shield had 75s CD to block 3 hits, etc)

• Tempest was originally conceived as a melee damage spec with sword. We had some data-mining showing a bunch of sword skills in development. Overloads being melee, and needing 5s to "charge up" (and thus requiring an effective auto-attack to fill the time), this all actually makes a lot of sense. When they failed to properly develop sword, they panicked, threw a bunch of auras, switched to a warhorn (which has the EASIEST animations ever, so no real artist time to make), and made it a support spec. However, there are still these clunky overloads that kinda want to dps, kinda want to damage, and the whole spec just seems like this "do everything" sort of spec.

• Weaver was conceived as a solid sword spec from the start, once they failed the first time with tempest. They included stances, which presumably would help you survive...and given the flow of the skills and inclusion of barrier, they really wanted to make this one a hybrid-damage bruiser. It makes sense, you are locked into super-close melee range with sword, so you need a sturdy body to stick around. However, they failed to account for exactly HOW squishy eles are, failed to give it the proper survival tools for melee range (not properly overcoming that ever-recurring issue) that might be OP on a super-tanky build in pvp, and so ONCE AGAIN they just made weaver a dps spec...AGAIN!!! They modified the other weapons, but AGAIN, ele is hurt by the terrible auto-attacks, as weaver forces you into an element for long periods of time. This is a large reason why only sword weaver truly worked, and raid weavers take all these conjures - to avoid the garbage autos. Once again, the spec was improperly conceived and largely fails to be a truly consistent design. When you look at even the traits and the skills, it is hard to tell what weaver is trying to do, and it just becomes another "do everything" kind of spec.

Oh well, I don't expect any of this to change until there is another person developing the class.

Edit: formatting.

In a weird way there too much focus on the ele lines them self with out much cross over. Fire line is mostly dmg as well as air so if you want to do dmg you run air and fire and something else (weaver more then likely) but your going to be all in dmg with next to no def. If you want to support you must run water and earth the def / support lines (tempest and arcain work here too) but your going to be just healing / def. There realty no in-between line even arcain not well made to be that in-between line. When you look at other classes lines yes they may have a dmg or def or support aimed but they also have a real effect in the other 2 say a dmg line has a real def chose as well as a real support chose. What this means is other classe can push there dmg def or support to exsteam levels because there lines are more balanced.

(sry i am not replaying to your full ideal and though)

[supreme.3602]

Lava Font nerf still pisses me off.

[Javelin.7960]

I've been playing Ele almost exclusively since launch. The class has been broken for a long time, but these latest changes, especially the double-attunement and sword nerfs, have finally convinced me to switch my main. I don't know what ANets problem with the Elementalist is, maybe it's the theoretical golem damage numbers like people say.

What is the Elementalist supposed to be good at? There are huge tradeoffs for playing one (low mobility, cloth armor, it's all been mentioned already), shouldn't all those negatives buy you...something? At least with a 360 degree sword I could say Weaver excelled at PBAoE, in the rare cases where that's critical. Now that's gone, along with ranged AoE. They raised burst damage, so I guess the Elementalists niche is burning down groups of trash mobs .1 seconds faster than the rest?

It seems like they don't want people playing this class anymore. I can do basically everything better with either Thief elite, and not have to stance dance either. As much as I like Weaver aesthetically, bringing the Elementalist closer to the fight took the game further away from fixing the fundamental problems with Elementalist.

[MyPuppy.8970]

There was a time I thought it could not be worse; that sometime, somehow, ele would become a not so masochistic class to play. Now I know It can still become worse.

[Bio Flame.4276]

ANET's track record concerning balance was never good to begin with but now it's at an all time low.Ok, nerf Ele's damage but then...what is it supposed to do? Tank? Heal? ...feed?

Seriously, currently other classes deal more damage, with more HPs and more survivability, with party-wide buffs.Ele cannot compete with the support spots , cannot compete on the Tanking spots...so...what gives?

And I seriously think it's very bad Design to come up with a new mechanic like the MS/Ice bow have just for one class, while other similiar skills are not affected.A game should not have to make sense as far as RL logic goes. But the rules inside the game should have some logic, to keep the game coherent.But now Eles, and only Eles have a new mechanic slapped on a few skills to nerf the damage that no other class has.That is bad design 101.

If they really thought Ele needed the nerf, they had other options, cleaner, more elegant. Nerf the damage, nerf the CD, change the skill.But coming up with that diminishing return on damage just for a class and just for 3-4 skills, it's never a good design solution.