Elixir S is the biggest crutch in the game

[draxynnic.3719]

Without agreeing with the OP's premise, I think I have an answer to the questions of why this is being brought up now:

Because Elixir S (the utility, not Self-Regulating Defences) has come back into the meta, so it's being seen more often as a method of safe stomping rather than being there as a means of delaying the engineer's death.

[Ario.8964]

I'd just like to see passive invuln (or any sort of passive damage immunity) go away. It was never a needed or healthy feature and the game would be better off without them (obviously there's more than just that but for this thread that is all we are focusing on). This has been an issue in the game and in the way pvp metas are shaped since the cele era (vamp runes on literally every build for the passive invuln). Anet can really only dig themselves out of their balance hole if they remove those types of traits, the abilities themselves can be buffed as compensation if need be but there should not be any sort of DI skill on a passive trigger.

[Vagrant.7206]

@Ferus.3165 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:Really? Then why do I see almost every warrior with defy pain? SoS, sure, not that useful right now, but neither is ranger in the current meta.

the passive one is not a choice. the other two traits competing for passive ep are either ~90 power bonus or mace cd reduction. Two worthless traits. doesn't make passive ep better in any way or passive elixir s less overpowered.

LOL

Have you seen the traits next to passive elixir S? They're equally awful.

@Ario.8964 said:I'd just like to see passive invuln (or any sort of passive damage immunity) go away. It was never a needed or healthy feature and the game would be better off without them (obviously there's more than just that but for this thread that is all we are focusing on). This has been an issue in the game and in the way pvp metas are shaped since the cele era (vamp runes on literally every build for the passive invuln). Anet can really only dig themselves out of their balance hole if they remove those types of traits, the abilities themselves can be buffed as compensation if need be but there should not be any sort of DI skill on a passive trigger.

Passive defenses are necessary for any MMO where it's possible to 0-100 someone in less than 3 seconds, especially for classes that have very limited mobility options.

[Ario.8964]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Ferus.3165 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:Really? Then why do I see almost every warrior with defy pain? SoS, sure, not that useful right now, but neither is ranger in the current meta.

the passive one is not a choice. the other two traits competing for passive ep are either ~90 power bonus or mace cd reduction. Two worthless traits. doesn't make passive ep better in any way or passive elixir s less overpowered.

LOL

Have you seen the traits next to passive elixir S? They're equally awful.

@Ario.8964 said:I'd just like to see passive invuln (or any sort of passive damage immunity) go away. It was never a needed or healthy feature and the game would be better off without them (obviously there's more than just that but for this thread that is all we are focusing on). This has been an issue in the game and in the way pvp metas are shaped since the cele era (vamp runes on literally every build for the passive invuln). Anet can really only dig themselves out of their balance hole if they remove those types of traits, the abilities themselves can be buffed as compensation if need be but there should not be any sort of DI skill on a passive trigger.

Passive defenses are necessary for any MMO where it's possible to 0-100 someone in less than 3 seconds, especially for classes that have very limited mobility options.

That's why in conjuction with removing passive defenses you reduce damage in the game (especially on combos used for 1 shotting). Doesn't take much skill to press 3 buttons and 1 shot someone or run away and try again when the cds come back is not a hard style to play. I wanted to stay on topic so I didn't put that in there but that's what I would pair with a removal of DI traits.

[Bossun.2046]

No point in comparing Passive Elixer S to warrior or rangers, due to both warrior and ranger being able to dish out damage while their "invus" are up.

[Endorphin.9147]

I think people are not addressing what the problem is or maybe they mentioned it and I overlooked it. I think Elixir S as a standalone is not OP. it has risk/reward. The main problem I think about S is that along with the rest of the kit in Holo, it becomes busted.

Right now Holo can dish out large damage/cc, and they have a ton of re-sustain and mobility too. With the current build they get superspeed and quickness through their toolbelt skills. Which usually they have those boons up during a good portion of the fights usually making elixir S able to escape and LoS easier and reset yourself. Aside from the superspeed, the quickness that lasts even after the S is the big problem IMO. After S, it is a guessing game of interrupting turret or a dodge into turret. with quickness the healing turret is even harder to interrupt. That is just one example of synergy that boosts a skill like Elixir S to be even stronger. I think Holo is probably the most well rounded class in sPvP currently. Probably S tier, pun intended. lol

That's my view of it anyways, there are other things to complain about in this game too. A lot of things in this game that might not be overpowered but, unhealthy for the game. We kind of just have to deal with it sadly.

[Vagrant.7206]

@Ario.8964 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Ferus.3165 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:Really? Then why do I see almost every warrior with defy pain? SoS, sure, not that useful right now, but neither is ranger in the current meta.

the passive one is not a choice. the other two traits competing for passive ep are either ~90 power bonus or mace cd reduction. Two worthless traits. doesn't make passive ep better in any way or passive elixir s less overpowered.

LOL

Have you seen the traits next to passive elixir S? They're equally awful.

@Ario.8964 said:I'd just like to see passive invuln (or any sort of passive damage immunity) go away. It was never a needed or healthy feature and the game would be better off without them (obviously there's more than just that but for this thread that is all we are focusing on). This has been an issue in the game and in the way pvp metas are shaped since the cele era (vamp runes on literally every build for the passive invuln). Anet can really only dig themselves out of their balance hole if they remove those types of traits, the abilities themselves can be buffed as compensation if need be but there should not be any sort of DI skill on a passive trigger.

Passive defenses are necessary for any MMO where it's possible to 0-100 someone in less than 3 seconds, especially for classes that have very limited mobility options.

That's why in conjuction with removing passive defenses you reduce damage in the game (especially on combos used for 1 shotting). Doesn't take much skill to press 3 buttons and 1 shot someone or run away and try again when the cds come back is not a hard style to play. I wanted to stay on topic so I didn't put that in there but that's what I would pair with a removal of DI traits.

Absolutely. Same thing needs to happen for condi damage and condi removal. Two sides to the same coin.