Elixir S is the biggest crutch in the game

[HeadCrowned.6834]

@Vagrant.7206 said:I said the skill itself has not been changed -- the change to invuln was a slight change that affected all temp invuln skills. Condi isn't particularly present in the current meta anyway, so your point is kind of moot.

The change to invulns is a straight up buff for Elixir S. And 2 professions out of a 5 man meta team are condi orientated. Dunno what u on about.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

When i see a mini mode engi i get so giddy cuz either they leap away immediately after or my necro will kill them the second it ends. As far as stomping goes im ok with it. Alot of classes have safty stomps. But haveing the stomp robot do it infuriates me. Like theres so much going on, ontop of downed bodies in terms of skill effects that you dont even see the robot stomp happening. + the point to stomping is that u stop your dps to do something else Like stomp. every class has this limitation its equal, its fair, buut stomp bot un dos all of it.

[Vagrant.7206]

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:Everyone keeps comparing other skills to Elixir S, as if other skills were granting the full effects of https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invulnerability while still allowing the player to take revive/stomping actions.

Seriously boys, Elixir S was once balanced in the Engi/Scrapper days, but it is a bit too much now in the Holosmith days. Not a lot, just a bit.

I already mentioned ele mist form and mesmer distortion. Those are not the only skill that make it incredibly safe to stomp though. As I said, DH shield of justice, warrior rampage, blinds, stealth, cleaves... all can be used to make stomps particularly safe. But you haven't exactly spelled out what it is about Elixir S that actually sets it apart from other methods.

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:

@"Vagrant.7206" said:I said the skill itself has not been changed -- the change to invuln was a slight change that affected all temp invuln skills. Condi isn't particularly present in the current meta anyway, so your point is kind of moot.

The change to invulns is a straight up buff for Elixir S. And 2 professions out of a 5 man meta team are condi orientated. Dunno what u on about.

Sure. It's a buff to Elixir S. It's also a buff to all other professions that have temp invuln skills.

You're going to have to be more specific what team makeup you're describing, as the "meta" builds on metabattle aren't necessarily the best for team comps.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:Everyone keeps comparing other skills to Elixir S, as if other skills were granting the full effects of

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invulnerability

while still allowing the player to take revive/stomping actions.

Seriously boys, Elixir S was once balanced in the Engi/Scrapper days, but it is a bit too much now in the Holosmith days. Not a lot, just a bit.

I already mentioned ele mist form and mesmer distortion. Those are not the only skill that make it incredibly safe to stomp though. As I said, DH shield of justice, warrior rampage, blinds, stealth, cleaves... all can be used to make stomps particularly safe. But you haven't exactly spelled out what it is about Elixir S that actually sets it apart from other methods.

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:I said the skill itself has not been changed -- the change to invuln was a slight change that affected all temp invuln skills. Condi isn't particularly present in the current meta anyway, so your point is kind of moot.

The change to invulns is a straight up buff for Elixir S. And 2 professions out of a 5 man meta team are condi orientated. Dunno what u on about.

Sure. It's a buff to Elixir S. It's also a buff to all other professions that have temp invuln skills.

You're going to have to be more specific what team makeup you're describing, as the "meta" builds on metabattle aren't necessarily the best for team comps.

Use of Elixir S on Engineers:

• Grants 3s of Invulnerability https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invulnerability every 72s with passive trait and every 48s with the utility. That's some frequent on-demand stomp/revive power that doesn't even require an elite slot such as Renewed Focus but rather a passive trait and a single utility slot. When a player enters Elixir S, there is 0% counter play to their actions.
• Invulnerability makes a player immune to all power damage.
• Invulnerability makes a player immune to all condi damage.
• Invulnerability makes a player immune to all CCs.
• The ability to pop back to back Elixir S is important to note, because it creates an enormous amount of stall time for a player who would normally be caught and die. Other classes that have access to actual invuln, get one invuln and then it is on CD.
• Elixir S grants the tool-belt skill Throw Elixir S, which grants full party stealth mechanic.
• Elixir S is a stunbreaker
• Both Elixir S procs benefit from the Engineer trait https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/HGH which essentially turns both Elixir S procs into 4s invulns. Yes, 4 seconds of invuln on each Elixir S which are a passive trait and a normal utility slot.

Other actual invulns that are used in pvp builds:

• Renewed Focus - 2s invuln only, 72s CD with trait and 90s without, locks the player into channel animation while using it "Can't stomp or revive with it", has animation cast time so it isn't an instant on-demand use, requires use of the elite skill slot. <- This is a far weaker source of invulnerability than Elixir S.
• Obsidian Flesh - The only other 4s invuln in the game which is on a base 50s CD and requires being in earth attunement to use. This is the only other skill in the game that is equal in power & utility to Elixir S invuln, though it doesn't grant a tool belt skill that grants party stealth mechanics. The Ele can't use two of them back to back and it isn't so on-demand as a passive trait is, or a utility skill. It does allow reviving/stomping however.
• Distortion - It's a 1s invuln on a 50s base CD. It just feels like a Mesmer has more of it because it has several other get out of jail free cards. The Mesmer can't benefit the the same revive/stomp utility as the Engineer because well, it's only a 1s invuln.

Skills that people seem to be mistaking for invulnerability:

• Endure Pain is not invulnerability. You still take condi damage and can be CC'd.
• Berserker Stance is not invulnerability. It is a pulsing resistance boon that can even be removed with boon removal or corruption. You can be CC'd while using it.
• Signet of Stone is not invulnerability. You still take condi damage and can be CC'd.
• Forms of blocking are not invulnerability. Unblockable attacks can still hit, dealing damage as normal, while CC'ing you.
• Forms of passive proc evades are not invulnerabilities. You still take pulsing condi damage during evade frames.
• Stealthing is not invulnerability. You still take all forms of damage and can be CC'd.
• Stability is not invulnerability. It helps secure revives/stomps but it doesn't stop damage and it can be removed/corrupted.
• Even if a player was able to stack all of the above mentioned "skills that are not invulnerability" while attempting a revive/stomp, it still doesn't make him invulnerable. This is what I'm trying to explain about how powerful invulnerability is. Even with all of the above stacked effects active on your character, you are still not invulnerable. Between a Scourge and a Spellbreaker, you'd still get resistance removed, you'd still get stability removed, you'd still get cleaved down, you'd still get CC'd, they'd still stop your revive/stomp. Even with all of the above effects stacked, they still are not as powerful during a revive/stomp or even while running away as the use of a single Elixir S. <- And that right there, is just the fact of the matter.

Elixir S is by far the most dominant source of invulnerability in the game, while granting the most utility and ease of use, while additionally granting party stealth mechanics, while additionally granting two sources of itself to the Engineer which can be used back to back. No other class does this. Elixir S might actually be the single most powerful skill in the game, rivaled only by Portal Entre.

[NICENIKESHOE.7128]

Let's be real here, when is the last time you see an ele seriously taking mist form into PvP and use it to stomp someone?

I could care less about safe stomp, but any one mentioning Mist form deserve a slapAnd any ele running it with seriousness deserve this

[Vagrant.7206]

@"NICENIKESHOE.7128" said:Let's be real here, when is the last time you see an ele seriously taking mist form into PvP and use it to stomp someone?

I could care less about safe stomp, but any one mentioning Mist form deserve a slapAnd any ele running it with seriousness deserve this

When was the last time you saw many eles in PvP? lol

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Everyone keeps comparing other skills to Elixir S, as if other skills were granting the full effects of

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invulnerability

while still allowing the player to take revive/stomping actions.

Seriously boys, Elixir S was once balanced in the Engi/Scrapper days, but it is a bit too much now in the Holosmith days. Not a lot, just a bit.

I already mentioned ele mist form and mesmer distortion. Those are not the only skill that make it incredibly safe to stomp though. As I said, DH shield of justice, warrior rampage, blinds, stealth, cleaves... all can be used to make stomps particularly safe. But you haven't exactly spelled out what it is about Elixir S that actually sets it apart from other methods.

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:I said the skill itself has not been changed -- the change to invuln was a slight change that affected all temp invuln skills. Condi isn't particularly present in the current meta anyway, so your point is kind of moot.

The change to invulns is a straight up buff for Elixir S. And 2 professions out of a 5 man meta team are condi orientated. Dunno what u on about.

Sure. It's a buff to Elixir S. It's also a buff to all other professions that have temp invuln skills.

You're going to have to be more specific what team makeup you're describing, as the "meta" builds on metabattle aren't necessarily the best for team comps.

Use of Elixir S on Engineers:

• Grants 3s of Invulnerability
  https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invulnerability
  every 72s with passive trait and every 48s with the utility. That's some frequent on-demand stomp/revive power that doesn't even require an elite slot such as Renewed Focus but rather a passive trait and a single utility slot. When a player enters Elixir S, there is 0% counter play to their actions.
• Invulnerability makes a player immune to all power damage.
• Invulnerability makes a player immune to all condi damage.
• Invulnerability makes a player immune to all CCs.
• The ability to pop back to back Elixir S is important to note, because it creates an enormous amount of stall time for a player who would normally be caught and die. Other classes that have access to actual invuln, get one invuln and then it is on CD.
• Elixir S grants the tool-belt skill Throw Elixir S, which grants full party stealth mechanic.
• Elixir S is a stunbreaker
• Both Elixir S procs benefit from the Engineer trait
  https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/HGH
  which essentially turns both Elixir S procs into 4s invulns. Yes, 4 seconds of invuln on each Elixir S which are a passive trait and a normal utility slot.

Other actual invulns that are used in pvp builds:

• Renewed Focus - 2s invuln only, 72s CD with trait and 90s without, locks the player into channel animation while using it "Can't stomp or revive with it", has animation cast time so it isn't an instant on-demand use, requires use of the elite skill slot. <- This is a far weaker source of invulnerability than Elixir S.
• Obsidian Flesh - The only other 4s invuln in the game which is on a base 50s CD and requires being in earth attunement to use. This is the only other skill in the game that is equal in power & utility to Elixir S invuln, though it doesn't grant a tool belt skill that grants party stealth mechanics. The Ele can't use two of them back to back and it isn't so on-demand as a passive trait is, or a utility skill. It does allow reviving/stomping however.
• Distortion - It's a 1s invuln on a 50s base CD. It just feels like a Mesmer has more of it because it has several other get out of jail free cards. The Mesmer can't benefit the the same revive/stomp utility as the Engineer because well, it's only a 1s invuln.

Skills that people seem to be mistaking for invulnerability:

• Endure Pain is not invulnerability. You still take condi damage and can be CC'd.
• Berserker Stance is not invulnerability. It is a pulsing resistance boon that can even be removed with boon removal or corruption. You can be CC'd while using it.
• Signet of Stone is not invulnerability. You still take condi damage and can be CC'd.
• Forms of blocking are not invulnerability. Unblockable attacks can still hit, dealing damage as normal, while CC'ing you.
• Forms of passive proc evades are not invulnerabilities. You still take pulsing condi damage during evade frames.
• Stealthing is not invulnerability. You still take all forms of damage and can be CC'd.
• Stability is not invulnerability. It helps secure revives/stomps but it doesn't stop damage and it can be removed/corrupted.
• Even if a player was able to stack all of the above mentioned "skills that are not invulnerability" while attempting a revive/stomp, it still doesn't make him invulnerable. This is what I'm trying to explain about how powerful invulnerability is. Even with all of the above stacked effects active on your character, you are still not invulnerable. Between a Scourge and a Spellbreaker, you'd still get resistance removed, you'd still get stability removed, you'd still get cleaved down, you'd still get CC'd, they'd still stop your revive/stomp. Even with all of the above effects stacked, they still are not as powerful during a revive/stomp or even while running away as the use of a single Elixir S. <- And that right there, is just the fact of the matter.

Elixir S is by far the most dominant source of invulnerability in the game, while granting the most utility and ease of use, while additionally granting party stealth mechanics, while additionally granting two sources of itself to the Engineer which can be used back to back. No other class does this. Elixir S might actually be the single most powerful skill in the game, rivaled only by Portal Entre.

• Passive Elixir S, as you mentioned, is not controllable. It is triggered by enemy actions, and as such it's incredibly unlikely to be used for stomping. When people attempt to be use it for stomping, a large window opens up on the tail end of passive elixir S for teammates to respond. Passive also doesn't stop CC if the CC was the last thing that landed.
• Everything you described has been true of Elixir S for a very long time (since at least the specialization rework). What exactly has changed that makes it so OP with the holosmith now?
• Your point about invuln is received. And guess what? The only thing an engineer can do in shrunk mode is move or stomp. No other action can take place. The same is true of mist form, for the most direct comparison.
• Are we ignoring mirage cloak? It's functionally an on-demand invuln that doesn't even take up a slot nor sacrifice using current actions.
• Obviously stealth and blocks are not invuln -- but for the sake of 1v1s, they might as well be. For teamfights, proper placement can make either of these abilities act like an invuln. Engineer is not the only one who has abilities that make stomping easier.

Ultimately, the question boils down to -- why is it that Elixir S is suddenly OP now? After being in the game for 6+ years?

[HeadCrowned.6834]

I never mentioned that its OP. Its just that a lot of your arguments are invalid/non-comparable/irrelevant.

For example:

• You compare Elixir S with other ways of "safe stomping" and consider Rampage as one of those ways. Almost all examples you gave arent safe stomps.
• Both scourge and mirage are top tier meta condi builds, while you say there is no condi involved in the meta.
• You assume that the functionality of a skill needs to change in order to become OP.

Honestly, you don't seem to be a PvP player, judging on your comments.

[NICENIKESHOE.7128]

Except mist form was never in meta for any period of time, even when ele was dominating meta and you see it everywhere. Whereas elixir S has been seen in most engi metas, comparing them only shows how little you know about ele and it'll only hurt your argument.

It's simple, engi has good burst heal/combo with CD that elixir S can buys time for, a good 7-8k+ heal under 1.5s with heal + combo. Any decent engi should be able to heal back up or sustain enough for disengage. That is why engi has been moderate to best side node bruiser for as long as HoT & PoF release, and its only moderate before other OP side node builds (eg. spellbreaker/chronotank) are nerfed. Have a look at Zan, who is very skilled as one of the best engis ofc. But he's able to contest side node and safely disengage from most outnumbered fight in top matches. Only to return and contest or win over side nodes when the heat dies down.

Outside of the short period before Elemental Bastion/Wash the Pain Away got nerf, ele rarely has any burst heal options (other than spam all 25+s utility CD like noobs). A 4s invul will almost always only delay inevitable for ele whereas any good engi will often have enough time for heal turret (or medic gyro prior to nerf). Heck even when weaver has good burst heal with its sword combo you don't see any weaver run mist form due to the same reason. That's why you don't see any ele take mist form. It really speak volume that I need to explain simple concepts to you and why you pick the worse couple to compare due to superficial reasons is beyond me.

To answer your question, nobody really complained about elixir S because a bruiser is just that, bruiser. Scrapper or even SD engi prior to HoT can't kill shit in serious matches. Engi's sustain hasn't been buffed/nerfed for PoF, but the amount of damage output it can do with holo gives it offensive edge to push opponent into defense while its previous sustain still allows it to fall back and recover quickly.

Balance is dynamic, it will and should change all the time, and saying an unchanged skill should stay like that is like saying outdated law should not be changed in current era. Best fix that satisfy both would just be halving duration and CD like I mentioned before, engi will have less reset potential for other skills on CD but also more frequent safe stomps if that pleases anyone.

[Axl.8924]

I've s een videos of holosmith and its pretty ridiculous how easy holosmith can escape and camp nodes.The survivability they have is real, and that damage too.I'm not sure what the cd on invuln is, but i do know that the holosmith used invis when invuln was down and invuln when invis was down.it seems like their cds are pretty low.

[Ferus.3165]

@Vagrant.7206 said:Ultimately, the question boils down to -- why is it that Elixir S is suddenly OP now? After being in the game for 6+ years?

maybe because almost every other passive skill in this game has been nerfed into oblivion while (passive) elixir s has been buffed recently?

[Josif.2015]

@Axl.8924 said:I've s een videos of holosmith and its pretty ridiculous how easy holosmith can escape and camp nodes.The survivability they have is real, and that damage too.I'm not sure what the cd on invuln is, but i do know that the holosmith used invis when invuln was down and invuln when invis was down.it seems like their cds are pretty low.

For Elixir S is 60 seconds, 48 if they're using HGH in Alchemy. As for Toss Elixir S, it's 45 seconds, 30 seconds if they're using both HGH in Alchemy and Tools, core specializations that meta Holosmith builds use. There is also the Elixir S passive with a 90 seconds cooldown. I know it can be infuriating to deal with engineers who use Elixir S just wasting your time, but it also makes them useless and gives you the advantage. They can't heal themselves, can't attack you, CC you etc. So just take advantage of this moment and heal yourself and prepare your CC skills to interrupt them from healing themselves.

[Sylosi.6503]

Elixir S is the biggest crutch in the game

Biggest crutch in the game, by a very, very long way, is that the game is tab targeted so aims for you.

[Math.5123]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:Everyone keeps comparing other skills to Elixir S, as if other skills were granting the full effects of

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invulnerability

while still allowing the player to take revive/stomping actions.

Seriously boys, Elixir S was once balanced in the Engi/Scrapper days, but it is a bit too much now in the Holosmith days. Not a lot, just a bit.

I already mentioned ele mist form and mesmer distortion. Those are not the only skill that make it incredibly safe to stomp though. As I said, DH shield of justice, warrior rampage, blinds, stealth, cleaves... all can be used to make stomps particularly safe. But you haven't exactly spelled out what it is about Elixir S that actually sets it apart from other methods.

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:I said the skill itself has not been changed -- the change to invuln was a slight change that affected all temp invuln skills. Condi isn't particularly present in the current meta anyway, so your point is kind of moot.

The change to invulns is a straight up buff for Elixir S. And 2 professions out of a 5 man meta team are condi orientated. Dunno what u on about.

Sure. It's a buff to Elixir S. It's also a buff to all other professions that have temp invuln skills.

You're going to have to be more specific what team makeup you're describing, as the "meta" builds on metabattle aren't necessarily the best for team comps.

You can't use DH f3 to safe stomp. The duration is too short after the nerfs. It's a three second block, with a cast time. You can also get cc'd out of it.

[Yannir.4132]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

• Distortion - It's a 1s invuln on a 50s base CD. It just feels like a Mesmer has more of it because it has several other get out of jail free cards. The Mesmer can't benefit the the same revive/stomp utility as the Engineer because well, it's only a 1s invuln.

Isn't Distortion a 4 second Invuln when Shattering 3 clones?

[Vagrant.7206]

@Ferus.3165 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:Ultimately, the question boils down to -- why is it that Elixir S is suddenly OP now? After being in the game for 6+ years?

maybe because almost every other passive skill in this game has been nerfed into oblivion while (passive) elixir s has been buffed recently?

Passive elixir S is still on a 90 second cooldown untraited, 72 if traited. The only buff it has gotten was the one that affected all invuln, which is only particularly important if you run condi builds.

[Ferus.3165]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Ferus.3165 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:Ultimately, the question boils down to -- why is it that Elixir S is suddenly OP now? After being in the game for 6+ years?

maybe because almost every other passive skill in this game has been nerfed into oblivion while (passive) elixir s has been buffed recently?

Passive elixir S is still on a 90 second cooldown untraited, 72 if traited. The only buff it has gotten was the one that affected all invuln, which is only particularly important if you run condi builds.

still my point stands. passive signet of stone and endure pain got their duration halfed... so why not passive elixir s?? elixir s passive is far to strong compared to other passives and a nerf (duration in half) is more than justified.

[Vagrant.7206]

@Ferus.3165 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Ferus.3165 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:Ultimately, the question boils down to -- why is it that Elixir S is suddenly OP now? After being in the game for 6+ years?

maybe because almost every other passive skill in this game has been nerfed into oblivion while (passive) elixir s has been buffed recently?

Passive elixir S is still on a 90 second cooldown untraited, 72 if traited. The only buff it has gotten was the one that affected all invuln, which is only particularly important if you run condi builds.

still my point stands. passive signet of stone and endure pain got their duration halfed... so why not passive elixir s?? elixir s passive is far to strong compared to other passives and a nerf (duration in half) is more than justified.

Signet of stone and endure pain allow the user to continue operating normally. Elixir S just stalls the fight.

[Ferus.3165]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Ferus.3165 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Ferus.3165 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:Ultimately, the question boils down to -- why is it that Elixir S is suddenly OP now? After being in the game for 6+ years?

maybe because almost every other passive skill in this game has been nerfed into oblivion while (passive) elixir s has been buffed recently?

Passive elixir S is still on a 90 second cooldown untraited, 72 if traited. The only buff it has gotten was the one that affected all invuln, which is only particularly important if you run condi builds.

still my point stands. passive signet of stone and endure pain got their duration halfed... so why not passive elixir s?? elixir s passive is far to strong compared to other passives and a nerf (duration in half) is more than justified.

Signet of stone and endure pain allow the user to continue operating normally. Elixir S just stalls the fight.

and here we go again... it makes you immune to cc, so you can stomp or res others and nothing can stop you. Also you are immune to condi dmg. 4 sec duration is far too long for a passive immunity. Should be 2 sec max. If it "just stalls the fight" it should not be a problem.

[Airdive.2613]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

• Distortion - It's a 1s invuln on a 50s base CD. It just feels like a Mesmer has more of it because it has several other get out of jail free cards. The Mesmer can't benefit the the same revive/stomp utility as the Engineer because well, it's only a 1s invuln.

Now waitwaitwaitwait a minute. Has something changed overnight or have you just casually left out the part in which distortion gets +1 second for each clone shattered?As far as I remember, it is literally up to 4 seconds of invulnerability. I suppose one could even make it 8 if they manage clones well as a chronomancer.

[Megametzler.5729]

@Airdive.2613 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

• Distortion - It's a 1s invuln on a 50s base CD. It just feels like a Mesmer has more of it because it has several other get out of jail free cards. The Mesmer can't benefit the the same revive/stomp utility as the Engineer because well, it's only a 1s invuln.

Now waitwaitwaitwait a minute. Has something changed overnight or have you just casually left out the part in which distortion gets +1 second for each clone shattered?As far as I remember, it is literally up to 4 seconds of invulnerability. I suppose one could even make it 8 if they manage clones well as a chronomancer.

8 seconds is possible, but reeeally tough, especially since the change to phantasms. It is hard to get so many clones for CS and distortion as chronomancer.

[Vagrant.7206]

@Ferus.3165 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Ferus.3165 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Ferus.3165 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:Ultimately, the question boils down to -- why is it that Elixir S is suddenly OP now? After being in the game for 6+ years?

maybe because almost every other passive skill in this game has been nerfed into oblivion while (passive) elixir s has been buffed recently?

Passive elixir S is still on a 90 second cooldown untraited, 72 if traited. The only buff it has gotten was the one that affected all invuln, which is only particularly important if you run condi builds.

still my point stands. passive signet of stone and endure pain got their duration halfed... so why not passive elixir s?? elixir s passive is far to strong compared to other passives and a nerf (duration in half) is more than justified.

Signet of stone and endure pain allow the user to continue operating normally. Elixir S just stalls the fight.

and here we go again... it makes you immune to cc, so you can stomp or res others and nothing can stop you. Also you are immune to condi dmg. 4 sec duration is far too long for a passive immunity. Should be 2 sec max. If it "just stalls the fight" it should not be a problem.

Part of stalling the fight means letting cooldown timers run. If you want to abbreviate it 2 seconds, then you wouldn't mind letting us attack while we're shrunk then?

[Airdive.2613]

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@Airdive.2613 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

• Distortion - It's a 1s invuln on a 50s base CD. It just feels like a Mesmer has more of it because it has several other get out of jail free cards. The Mesmer can't benefit the the same revive/stomp utility as the Engineer because well, it's only a 1s invuln.

Now waitwaitwaitwait a minute. Has something changed overnight or have you just casually left out the part in which distortion gets +1 second for each clone shattered?As far as I remember, it is literally up to 4 seconds of invulnerability. I suppose one could even make it 8 if they manage clones well as a chronomancer.

8 seconds is possible, but reeeally tough, especially since the change to phantasms. It is hard to get so many clones for CS and distortion as chronomancer.

You can always slot mirror images + decoy if it's distortion you want. ;)I mean, no one's going to do it unironically, but technically you're just 2 utilities and the chronomancer line away from being able to get 8 seconds of invulnerability (with some bonus stealth, gasp) (all weapon skills allowed) without effort.

[Exalted Quality.8534]

OMG HOLOS CAN USE VENT EXHAUST WHILE IN ELIXIR S. NEEDS TO BE NERF RIGHT MEOW.

[Megametzler.5729]

@Airdive.2613 said:

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@Airdive.2613 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

• Distortion - It's a 1s invuln on a 50s base CD. It just feels like a Mesmer has more of it because it has several other get out of jail free cards. The Mesmer can't benefit the the same revive/stomp utility as the Engineer because well, it's only a 1s invuln.

Now waitwaitwaitwait a minute. Has something changed overnight or have you just casually left out the part in which distortion gets +1 second for each clone shattered?As far as I remember, it is literally up to 4 seconds of invulnerability. I suppose one could even make it 8 if they manage clones well as a chronomancer.

8 seconds is possible, but reeeally tough, especially since the change to phantasms. It is hard to get so many clones for CS and distortion as chronomancer.

You can always slot mirror images + decoy if it's distortion you want. ;)I mean, no one's going to do it unironically, but technically you're just 2 utilities and the chronomancer line away from being able to get 8 seconds of invulnerability (with some bonus stealth, gasp) (all weapon skills allowed) without effort.

Yepp, it can definitely be done.^^ Dual GS zerkers, CS, then when they become clones GS2 and distortion would be my quick idea. But that wastes the zerkers' CD not being into CS... anyway. It is definitely possible, yes.^^

But that's not what makes mesmer OP. It is mirage! Let's redirect the hate please!

[Ferus.3165]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Ferus.3165 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Ferus.3165 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Ferus.3165 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:Ultimately, the question boils down to -- why is it that Elixir S is suddenly OP now? After being in the game for 6+ years?

maybe because almost every other passive skill in this game has been nerfed into oblivion while (passive) elixir s has been buffed recently?

Passive elixir S is still on a 90 second cooldown untraited, 72 if traited. The only buff it has gotten was the one that affected all invuln, which is only particularly important if you run condi builds.

still my point stands. passive signet of stone and endure pain got their duration halfed... so why not passive elixir s?? elixir s passive is far to strong compared to other passives and a nerf (duration in half) is more than justified.

Signet of stone and endure pain allow the user to continue operating normally. Elixir S just stalls the fight.

and here we go again... it makes you immune to cc, so you can stomp or res others and nothing can stop you. Also you are immune to condi dmg. 4 sec duration is far too long for a passive immunity. Should be 2 sec max. If it "just stalls the fight" it should not be a problem.

Part of stalling the fight means letting cooldown timers run. If you want to abbreviate it 2 seconds, then you wouldn't mind letting us attack while we're shrunk then?

when warrior and rangers get a complete invulnerability aswell.. doesn't matter how you put it, passive elixir s needs a big nerf just like ranger SoS and warrior EP back then.