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Elixir S is the biggest crutch in the game

Ovark.2514

By Ovark.2514
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NaturallyNick.4058

NaturallyNick.4058

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Engineer has as much or more sustain than Weaver. It doesn't need two get out of jail free cards on top of spewing CC and infinite stab. The damage is pretty high as well with its permaquickness. It's absolutely busted. Literally no downsides.

The biggest contributor to the sustain is having to wait 8 seconds for their double invulnerability to run out, at which point all their blasts are back up. Halving the duration seems too minor of a nerf.

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Airdive.2613

Airdive.2613

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@"NaturallyNick.4058" said:Engineer has as much or more sustain than Weaver. It doesn't need two get out of jail free cards on top of spewing CC and infinite stab. The damage is pretty high as well with its permaquickness. It's absolutely busted. Literally no downsides.

The biggest contributor to the sustain is having to wait 8 seconds for their double invulnerability to run out, at which point all their blasts are back up. Halving the duration seems too minor of a nerf.

Isn't that whopping 8 seconds for you to act, move and capture freely? It's not "sustain" any more than it's a "minor defeat", similarly to the thief's fabled "free disengage".

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Vagrant.7206

Vagrant.7206

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@Ferus.3165 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:Ultimately, the question boils down to -- why is it that Elixir S is suddenly OP now? After being in the game for 6+ years?

maybe because almost every other passive skill in this game has been nerfed into oblivion while (passive) elixir s has been buffed recently?

Passive elixir S is still on a 90 second cooldown untraited, 72 if traited. The only buff it has gotten was the one that affected all invuln, which is only particularly important if you run condi builds.

still my point stands. passive signet of stone and endure pain got their duration halfed... so why not passive elixir s?? elixir s passive is far to strong compared to other passives and a nerf (duration in half) is more than justified.

Signet of stone and endure pain allow the user to continue operating normally. Elixir S just stalls the fight.

and here we go again... it makes you immune to cc, so you can stomp or res others and nothing can stop you. Also you are immune to condi dmg. 4 sec duration is far too long for a passive immunity. Should be 2 sec max. If it "just stalls the fight" it should not be a problem.

Part of stalling the fight means letting cooldown timers run. If you want to abbreviate it 2 seconds, then you wouldn't mind letting us attack while we're shrunk then?

when warrior and rangers get a complete invulnerability aswell.. doesn't matter how you put it, passive elixir s needs a big nerf just like ranger SoS and warrior EP back then.

Warriors and rangers can still cap when using those skills. I think it's even if engi gets invuln and attack, warrior/ranger gets cap ability and attack.

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NaturallyNick.4058

NaturallyNick.4058

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@Airdive.2613 said:

@"NaturallyNick.4058" said:Engineer has as much or more sustain than Weaver. It doesn't need two get out of jail free cards on top of spewing CC and infinite stab. The damage is pretty high as well with its permaquickness. It's absolutely busted. Literally no downsides.

The biggest contributor to the sustain is having to wait 8 seconds for their double invulnerability to run out, at which point all their blasts are back up. Halving the duration seems too minor of a nerf.

Isn't that whopping 8 seconds for you to act, move and capture freely? It's not "sustain" any more than it's a "minor defeat", similarly to the thief's fabled "free disengage".

Engi without elixirs: dies gracefully.

Engi with elixirs: stalls until all of its cooldowns are back up, then use every combo it's got in the water field that is conveniently back up again. The sustain isn't in the invuln itself (though having conditions harmlessly tick out sure is nice), but in the stalling potential that lets it use its incredibly bloated kit all over again. All without having to spec into any healing power at all, letting it go crazy on the DPS. More CC than almost any other class too. Again, on a stupidly low CD.

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Airdive.2613

Airdive.2613

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@NaturallyNick.4058 said:

@NaturallyNick.4058 said:Engineer has as much or more sustain than Weaver. It doesn't need two get out of jail free cards on top of spewing CC and infinite stab. The damage is pretty high as well with its permaquickness. It's absolutely busted. Literally no downsides.

The biggest contributor to the sustain is having to wait 8 seconds for their double invulnerability to run out, at which point all their blasts are back up. Halving the duration seems too minor of a nerf.

Isn't that whopping 8 seconds for you to act, move and capture freely? It's not "sustain" any more than it's a "minor defeat", similarly to the thief's fabled "free disengage".

Engi without elixirs: dies gracefully.

Engi with elixirs: stalls until all of its cooldowns are back up, then use every combo it's got in the water field that is conveniently back up again. The sustain isn't in the invuln itself (though having conditions harmlessly tick out sure is nice), but in the stalling potential that lets it use its incredibly bloated kit all over again. All without having to spec into any healing power at all, letting it go crazy on the DPS. More CC than almost any other class too. Again, on a stupidly low CD.

You without engi elixirs: everything is on a cooldown.

You with engi elixirs: your burst damage skills as well as your healing skill are back up. All without having to do anything in-between.

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Ferus.3165

Ferus.3165

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@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:Ultimately, the question boils down to -- why is it that Elixir S is suddenly OP now? After being in the game for 6+ years?

maybe because almost every other passive skill in this game has been nerfed into oblivion while (passive) elixir s has been buffed recently?

Passive elixir S is still on a 90 second cooldown untraited, 72 if traited. The only buff it has gotten was the one that affected all invuln, which is only particularly important if you run condi builds.

still my point stands. passive signet of stone and endure pain got their duration halfed... so why not passive elixir s?? elixir s passive is far to strong compared to other passives and a nerf (duration in half) is more than justified.

Signet of stone and endure pain allow the user to continue operating normally. Elixir S just stalls the fight.

and here we go again... it makes you immune to cc, so you can stomp or res others and nothing can stop you. Also you are immune to condi dmg. 4 sec duration is far too long for a passive immunity. Should be 2 sec max. If it "just stalls the fight" it should not be a problem.

Part of stalling the fight means letting cooldown timers run. If you want to abbreviate it 2 seconds, then you wouldn't mind letting us attack while we're shrunk then?

when warrior and rangers get a complete invulnerability aswell.. doesn't matter how you put it, passive elixir s needs a big nerf just like ranger SoS and warrior EP back then.

Warriors and rangers can still cap when using those skills. I think it's even if engi gets invuln and attack, warrior/ranger gets cap ability and attack.

haha no xD, i mean you can ask anet if you can get SoS or EP as your passive, than you can continue to attack. Otherwise the time of the passive invul should be halfed. End of story.

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Crystal Paladin.3871

Crystal Paladin.3871

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@Ferus.3165 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:Ultimately, the question boils down to -- why is it that Elixir S is suddenly OP now? After being in the game for 6+ years?

maybe because almost every other passive skill in this game has been nerfed into oblivion while (passive) elixir s has been buffed recently?

Passive elixir S is still on a 90 second cooldown untraited, 72 if traited. The only buff it has gotten was the one that affected all invuln, which is only particularly important if you run condi builds.

still my point stands. passive signet of stone and endure pain got their duration halfed... so why not passive elixir s?? elixir s passive is far to strong compared to other passives and a nerf (duration in half) is more than justified.

Signet of stone and endure pain allow the user to continue operating normally. Elixir S just stalls the fight.

and here we go again... it makes you immune to cc, so you can stomp or res others and nothing can stop you. Also you are immune to condi dmg. 4 sec duration is far too long for a passive immunity. Should be 2 sec max. If it "just stalls the fight" it should not be a problem.

Part of stalling the fight means letting cooldown timers run. If you want to abbreviate it 2 seconds, then you wouldn't mind letting us attack while we're shrunk then?

when warrior and rangers get a complete invulnerability aswell.. doesn't matter how you put it, passive elixir s needs a big nerf just like ranger SoS and warrior EP back then.

Warriors and rangers can still cap when using those skills. I think it's even if engi gets invuln and attack, warrior/ranger gets cap ability and attack.

haha no xD, i mean you can ask anet if you can get SoS or EP as your passive, than you can continue to attack. Otherwise the time of the passive invul should be halfed. End of story.

Well said.... But... If anet just copy paste skills and just give a different name, it'd become copy wars :p ;)

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schloumou.3982

schloumou.3982

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@Ferus.3165 said:

haha no xD, i mean you can ask anet if you can get SoS or EP as your passive, than you can continue to attack. Otherwise the time of the passive invul should be halfed. End of story.

I think most Engis would gladly trade passive S for Warris Endure Pain. I really doubt you would like the outcome. But in my opinion all passive immunities and stunbreaks have to go.

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Ferus.3165

Ferus.3165

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@schloumou.3982 said:

haha no xD, i mean you can ask anet if you can get SoS or EP as your passive, than you can continue to attack. Otherwise the time of the passive invul should be halfed. End of story.

I think most Engis would gladly trade passive S for Warris Endure Pain. I really doubt you would like the outcome. But in my oppinion all passive immunities and stunbreaks have to go.

and many warriors would gladly take a 4 sec immunity with 72 sec cd over a 2 sec physical dmg block with 90 sec cd in pvp xD. You are delusional if you think current version of passive EP can even hold a candle to passive elixir s. The passive trait needs a big nerf. Duration in half.

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schloumou.3982

schloumou.3982

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@Ferus.3165 said:

haha no xD, i mean you can ask anet if you can get SoS or EP as your passive, than you can continue to attack. Otherwise the time of the passive invul should be halfed. End of story.

I think most Engis would gladly trade passive S for Warris Endure Pain. I really doubt you would like the outcome. But in my oppinion all passive immunities and stunbreaks have to go.

and many warriors would gladly take a 4 sec immunity with 72 sec cd over a 2 sec physical dmg block with 90 sec cd in pvp xD. You are delusional if you think current version of passive EP can even hold a candle to passive elixir s. The passive trait needs a big nerf. Duration in half.

Hey, nice that we agree. Lets give Engi passive EP instead of S. Im all for that.

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Chaith.8256

Chaith.8256

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@Trevor Boyer.6524

Nice deep dive into Elixir S, comparing it to other Invulns and such and pouring over every detail

Except you left out one thing that didn't fit your narrative, Obsidian Flesh, Distortion, and all Mesmer pseudo-invulns, you're able to blast full DPS for their duration. Invulns like Renewed Focus, Elixir S, have powerful bonuses (Recharge Virtues, superior trait synergy respectively) to compensate for the fact you have access to no skills.

Also, 8 seconds of no-capture contribution stalling is not out of line. You can stall comparably well with other classes and control capture points simultaneously. Full Counter, Block, Endure pain, Defy Pain, Full Counter. Press Tome of Courage, then Tome of Resolve, possess Mirage cloak & Blurred Frenzy, although the Mirage stalling feature has been toned down over the last 6 months.

It's not like you made any suggestions to change Elixir S, more like just informing the PvP forums how good it currently is, however, if push came to shove, Elixir S and Self Regulating Defenses should not be gutted hard.

Here are some perspectives you may not have considered..

  • Alchemy & Elixirs is the defensive backbone for the entire Engi profession. Scrapper and Core depend on Alchemy too.
  • In more defensive, or duel/capture point focused metas, Engineers Elixir S is actually a subpar option. There were multiple points in the game's history where Elixir S nor Self-Regulating Defenses was taken, yet the Engineer could pop off double Elixir S since August 2012. Right now in a kill-zerg meta, it's amazing. That's why a virtually unchanged vanilla skill is suddenly being nominated as the second best skill & trait family after Portal Entre. Elixir S is highly affected by the meta. The more fragile burst people trying to spike a single Engineer, the more Elixir S's value skyrockets.

The 160IQ way to nerf Elixir S would be to:

  • Nerf the Holosmith, (Firebrand, Mirage too, but thats off topic)
  • Buff subpar supports (Scrapper, Tempest, Ventari Herald) until they appear in the meta, and somewhat slow down the easy kills everywhere, indirectly gutting the effectiveness of Elixir S.
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Vagrant.7206

Vagrant.7206

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@Ferus.3165 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:Ultimately, the question boils down to -- why is it that Elixir S is suddenly OP now? After being in the game for 6+ years?

maybe because almost every other passive skill in this game has been nerfed into oblivion while (passive) elixir s has been buffed recently?

Passive elixir S is still on a 90 second cooldown untraited, 72 if traited. The only buff it has gotten was the one that affected all invuln, which is only particularly important if you run condi builds.

still my point stands. passive signet of stone and endure pain got their duration halfed... so why not passive elixir s?? elixir s passive is far to strong compared to other passives and a nerf (duration in half) is more than justified.

Signet of stone and endure pain allow the user to continue operating normally. Elixir S just stalls the fight.

and here we go again... it makes you immune to cc, so you can stomp or res others and nothing can stop you. Also you are immune to condi dmg. 4 sec duration is far too long for a passive immunity. Should be 2 sec max. If it "just stalls the fight" it should not be a problem.

Part of stalling the fight means letting cooldown timers run. If you want to abbreviate it 2 seconds, then you wouldn't mind letting us attack while we're shrunk then?

when warrior and rangers get a complete invulnerability aswell.. doesn't matter how you put it, passive elixir s needs a big nerf just like ranger SoS and warrior EP back then.

Warriors and rangers can still cap when using those skills. I think it's even if engi gets invuln and attack, warrior/ranger gets cap ability and attack.

haha no xD, i mean you can ask anet if you can get SoS or EP as your passive, than you can continue to attack. Otherwise the time of the passive invul should be halfed. End of story.

My point is that you're asking for skills to be duplicates. Balance isn't about making everyone identical.

@"HeadCrowned.6834" said:I never mentioned that its OP. Its just that a lot of your arguments are invalid/non-comparable/irrelevant.

For example:

  • You compare Elixir S with other ways of "safe stomping" and consider Rampage as one of those ways. Almost all examples you gave arent safe stomps.
  • Both scourge and mirage are top tier meta condi builds, while you say there is no condi involved in the meta.
  • You assume that the functionality of a skill needs to change in order to become OP.

Honestly, you don't seem to be a PvP player, judging on your comments.

Oh hey, I missed this post. Nice way to end with an ad hominem btw. Really adds some spice to the post.

! MXaiACT.png

My point was that stomps are dependent on situations. In 1v1 situations, for example, everything I listed is super potent as a stomp. The only time elixir S stands out as a stomping tool is in teamfights, and even then only if your team can keep enough cleave on the target to prevent res by their teammates. That doesn't seem super unfair, given that engineers who use their Elixir S are giving up a stunbreak and invuln to finish a foe -- engineers are significantly more vulnerable after such a stomp.

And this has always been the case, since GW2 launched. The reason it seems unfair now is because we're in a burst meta. You can't burst someone who's temp invuln. But in the tanky metas, Elixir S is often too weak to even consider -- you just need the extra damage output in those cases.

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Ferus.3165

Ferus.3165

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@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:Ultimately, the question boils down to -- why is it that Elixir S is suddenly OP now? After being in the game for 6+ years?

maybe because almost every other passive skill in this game has been nerfed into oblivion while (passive) elixir s has been buffed recently?

Passive elixir S is still on a 90 second cooldown untraited, 72 if traited. The only buff it has gotten was the one that affected all invuln, which is only particularly important if you run condi builds.

still my point stands. passive signet of stone and endure pain got their duration halfed... so why not passive elixir s?? elixir s passive is far to strong compared to other passives and a nerf (duration in half) is more than justified.

Signet of stone and endure pain allow the user to continue operating normally. Elixir S just stalls the fight.

and here we go again... it makes you immune to cc, so you can stomp or res others and nothing can stop you. Also you are immune to condi dmg. 4 sec duration is far too long for a passive immunity. Should be 2 sec max. If it "just stalls the fight" it should not be a problem.

Part of stalling the fight means letting cooldown timers run. If you want to abbreviate it 2 seconds, then you wouldn't mind letting us attack while we're shrunk then?

when warrior and rangers get a complete invulnerability aswell.. doesn't matter how you put it, passive elixir s needs a big nerf just like ranger SoS and warrior EP back then.

Warriors and rangers can still cap when using those skills. I think it's even if engi gets invuln and attack, warrior/ranger gets cap ability and attack.

haha no xD, i mean you can ask anet if you can get SoS or EP as your passive, than you can continue to attack. Otherwise the time of the passive invul should be halfed. End of story.

My point is that you're asking for skills to be duplicates. Balance isn't about making everyone identical.

yep that is why you don't get my point. passive elixir s needs half duration in pvp. simple. no attacking or something else. just a flat nerf. duration should not be longer than 1.5/2 sec.

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Vagrant.7206

Vagrant.7206

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@Ferus.3165 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:Ultimately, the question boils down to -- why is it that Elixir S is suddenly OP now? After being in the game for 6+ years?

maybe because almost every other passive skill in this game has been nerfed into oblivion while (passive) elixir s has been buffed recently?

Passive elixir S is still on a 90 second cooldown untraited, 72 if traited. The only buff it has gotten was the one that affected all invuln, which is only particularly important if you run condi builds.

still my point stands. passive signet of stone and endure pain got their duration halfed... so why not passive elixir s?? elixir s passive is far to strong compared to other passives and a nerf (duration in half) is more than justified.

Signet of stone and endure pain allow the user to continue operating normally. Elixir S just stalls the fight.

and here we go again... it makes you immune to cc, so you can stomp or res others and nothing can stop you. Also you are immune to condi dmg. 4 sec duration is far too long for a passive immunity. Should be 2 sec max. If it "just stalls the fight" it should not be a problem.

Part of stalling the fight means letting cooldown timers run. If you want to abbreviate it 2 seconds, then you wouldn't mind letting us attack while we're shrunk then?

when warrior and rangers get a complete invulnerability aswell.. doesn't matter how you put it, passive elixir s needs a big nerf just like ranger SoS and warrior EP back then.

Warriors and rangers can still cap when using those skills. I think it's even if engi gets invuln and attack, warrior/ranger gets cap ability and attack.

haha no xD, i mean you can ask anet if you can get SoS or EP as your passive, than you can continue to attack. Otherwise the time of the passive invul should be halfed. End of story.

My point is that you're asking for skills to be duplicates. Balance isn't about making everyone identical.

yep that is why you don't get my point. passive elixir s needs half duration in pvp. simple. no attacking or something else. just a flat nerf. duration should not be longer than 1.5/2 sec.

That's why you don't get my point. Passive Elixir S doesn't present the opportunities that skills like signet of stone or endure pain do. You're asking to make it objectively worse than those two skills.

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Crystal Paladin.3871

Crystal Paladin.3871

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@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:Ultimately, the question boils down to -- why is it that Elixir S is suddenly OP now? After being in the game for 6+ years?

maybe because almost every other passive skill in this game has been nerfed into oblivion while (passive) elixir s has been buffed recently?

Passive elixir S is still on a 90 second cooldown untraited, 72 if traited. The only buff it has gotten was the one that affected all invuln, which is only particularly important if you run condi builds.

still my point stands. passive signet of stone and endure pain got their duration halfed... so why not passive elixir s?? elixir s passive is far to strong compared to other passives and a nerf (duration in half) is more than justified.

Signet of stone and endure pain allow the user to continue operating normally. Elixir S just stalls the fight.

and here we go again... it makes you immune to cc, so you can stomp or res others and nothing can stop you. Also you are immune to condi dmg. 4 sec duration is far too long for a passive immunity. Should be 2 sec max. If it "just stalls the fight" it should not be a problem.

Part of stalling the fight means letting cooldown timers run. If you want to abbreviate it 2 seconds, then you wouldn't mind letting us attack while we're shrunk then?

when warrior and rangers get a complete invulnerability aswell.. doesn't matter how you put it, passive elixir s needs a big nerf just like ranger SoS and warrior EP back then.

Warriors and rangers can still cap when using those skills. I think it's even if engi gets invuln and attack, warrior/ranger gets cap ability and attack.

haha no xD, i mean you can ask anet if you can get SoS or EP as your passive, than you can continue to attack. Otherwise the time of the passive invul should be halfed. End of story.

My point is that you're asking for skills to be duplicates. Balance isn't about making everyone identical.

yep that is why you don't get my point. passive elixir s needs half duration in pvp. simple. no attacking or something else. just a flat nerf. duration should not be longer than 1.5/2 sec.

That's why you don't get my point. Passive Elixir S doesn't present the opportunities that skills like signet of stone or endure pain do. You're asking to make it objectively worse than those two skills.

I think what @Ferus.3165 trying to say is, imagine a fight between ranger and engineer...In mid fight, health 10% ranger uses SoS, engi uses cc combos and make him bounce around the map... And sos becomes useless and ranger dies miserably :/If engi uses elixirS, double vulnerability 8secs, no dmg, no cc... Just run far away where your allies are... Then every skill is available out of CD... ;) :p Fresh start... Rinse repeat where ranger would've died already :'(

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sephiroth.4217

sephiroth.4217

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@"NICENIKESHOE.7128" said:Let's be real here, when is the last time you see an ele seriously taking mist form into PvP and use it to stomp someone?

I could care less about safe stomp, but any one mentioning Mist form deserve a slapAnd any ele running it with seriousness deserve thisiOPct.jpg

Mist form was sick when it could be used with other skills such as safe casting meteor shower or the old tornado booster was fun too, cast MS and go into tornado for extra juicy damage...

Wonder why anet removed these little tricks, made the combat mechanics just a little bit cooler when they existed

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Ferus.3165

Ferus.3165

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@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:Ultimately, the question boils down to -- why is it that Elixir S is suddenly OP now? After being in the game for 6+ years?

maybe because almost every other passive skill in this game has been nerfed into oblivion while (passive) elixir s has been buffed recently?

Passive elixir S is still on a 90 second cooldown untraited, 72 if traited. The only buff it has gotten was the one that affected all invuln, which is only particularly important if you run condi builds.

still my point stands. passive signet of stone and endure pain got their duration halfed... so why not passive elixir s?? elixir s passive is far to strong compared to other passives and a nerf (duration in half) is more than justified.

Signet of stone and endure pain allow the user to continue operating normally. Elixir S just stalls the fight.

and here we go again... it makes you immune to cc, so you can stomp or res others and nothing can stop you. Also you are immune to condi dmg. 4 sec duration is far too long for a passive immunity. Should be 2 sec max. If it "just stalls the fight" it should not be a problem.

Part of stalling the fight means letting cooldown timers run. If you want to abbreviate it 2 seconds, then you wouldn't mind letting us attack while we're shrunk then?

when warrior and rangers get a complete invulnerability aswell.. doesn't matter how you put it, passive elixir s needs a big nerf just like ranger SoS and warrior EP back then.

Warriors and rangers can still cap when using those skills. I think it's even if engi gets invuln and attack, warrior/ranger gets cap ability and attack.

haha no xD, i mean you can ask anet if you can get SoS or EP as your passive, than you can continue to attack. Otherwise the time of the passive invul should be halfed. End of story.

My point is that you're asking for skills to be duplicates. Balance isn't about making everyone identical.

yep that is why you don't get my point. passive elixir s needs half duration in pvp. simple. no attacking or something else. just a flat nerf. duration should not be longer than 1.5/2 sec.

That's why you don't get my point. Passive Elixir S doesn't present the opportunities that skills like signet of stone or endure pain do. You're asking to make it objectively worse than those two skills.

passive ep and sos are already close to useless. you should not rely on a passive. simple as that. as it stands right now passive elixir s is far too powerful and deserves to be brought in line with the rest of the passives. two sec of complete invulnerability is enough time to get out of a danger zone and if it is not you should have thought ahead and not simply let your passive do all the work for you.

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Ten.2617

Ten.2617

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Never equip passive ES.

Scenario 1: You are fighting and winning until become locked for 3 sec, enough time to the edversary get out of danger.Scenario 2: You are fighting and loosing until become locked for 3 and give the adversary time to think how finish you when ES effect done.Scenario 3: You are fighting and loosing until gecome invul time enough to get some other skill ready to use.

Better Anet remove that boring passive ES and buff ative ES to mo nore shrinks and become locked, but grants Intangibility without lock the skills.

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Chaith.8256

Chaith.8256

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@"JETWING.2759" said:Never equip passive ES.

That's a bad philosophy and all 3 of your "Scenarios" are 1v1s. Passive S is a bad choice in a 1v1 tournament vacuum but you are ignoring virtually every other scenario. Like 1vX, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4?

Passive S is a good choice because you'll constantly be focused by multiple damage builds in the PvP meta currently, be constantly outnumbered, and constantly in larger fights than 1v1.

99% of the time use passive Elixir S in PvP...

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Vagrant.7206

Vagrant.7206

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@Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:Ultimately, the question boils down to -- why is it that Elixir S is suddenly OP now? After being in the game for 6+ years?

maybe because almost every other passive skill in this game has been nerfed into oblivion while (passive) elixir s has been buffed recently?

Passive elixir S is still on a 90 second cooldown untraited, 72 if traited. The only buff it has gotten was the one that affected all invuln, which is only particularly important if you run condi builds.

still my point stands. passive signet of stone and endure pain got their duration halfed... so why not passive elixir s?? elixir s passive is far to strong compared to other passives and a nerf (duration in half) is more than justified.

Signet of stone and endure pain allow the user to continue operating normally. Elixir S just stalls the fight.

and here we go again... it makes you immune to cc, so you can stomp or res others and nothing can stop you. Also you are immune to condi dmg. 4 sec duration is far too long for a passive immunity. Should be 2 sec max. If it "just stalls the fight" it should not be a problem.

Part of stalling the fight means letting cooldown timers run. If you want to abbreviate it 2 seconds, then you wouldn't mind letting us attack while we're shrunk then?

when warrior and rangers get a complete invulnerability aswell.. doesn't matter how you put it, passive elixir s needs a big nerf just like ranger SoS and warrior EP back then.

Warriors and rangers can still cap when using those skills. I think it's even if engi gets invuln and attack, warrior/ranger gets cap ability and attack.

haha no xD, i mean you can ask anet if you can get SoS or EP as your passive, than you can continue to attack. Otherwise the time of the passive invul should be halfed. End of story.

My point is that you're asking for skills to be duplicates. Balance isn't about making everyone identical.

yep that is why you don't get my point. passive elixir s needs half duration in pvp. simple. no attacking or something else. just a flat nerf. duration should not be longer than 1.5/2 sec.

That's why you don't get my point. Passive Elixir S doesn't present the opportunities that skills like signet of stone or endure pain do. You're asking to make it objectively worse than those two skills.

I think what @Ferus.3165 trying to say is, imagine a fight between ranger and engineer...In mid fight, health 10% ranger uses SoS, engi uses cc combos and make him bounce around the map... And sos becomes useless and ranger dies miserably :/If engi uses elixirS, double vulnerability 8secs, no dmg, no cc... Just run far away where your allies are... Then every skill is available out of CD... ;) :p Fresh start... Rinse repeat where ranger would've died already :'(

If engi double elixir S's, that resets the fight for you too. There's no meta condi build for engineer in PvP right now, nor do I expect there to be in the immediate future.

That's the thing -- it stalls the fight, not just for the engineer, but their opponent(s) too. SoS and EP don't do that. Engineer can't just teleport away like mesmer or thief, we have to run all the way away. You can still stick to us like glue if you want.

@Ferus.3165 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:Ultimately, the question boils down to -- why is it that Elixir S is suddenly OP now? After being in the game for 6+ years?

maybe because almost every other passive skill in this game has been nerfed into oblivion while (passive) elixir s has been buffed recently?

Passive elixir S is still on a 90 second cooldown untraited, 72 if traited. The only buff it has gotten was the one that affected all invuln, which is only particularly important if you run condi builds.

still my point stands. passive signet of stone and endure pain got their duration halfed... so why not passive elixir s?? elixir s passive is far to strong compared to other passives and a nerf (duration in half) is more than justified.

Signet of stone and endure pain allow the user to continue operating normally. Elixir S just stalls the fight.

and here we go again... it makes you immune to cc, so you can stomp or res others and nothing can stop you. Also you are immune to condi dmg. 4 sec duration is far too long for a passive immunity. Should be 2 sec max. If it "just stalls the fight" it should not be a problem.

Part of stalling the fight means letting cooldown timers run. If you want to abbreviate it 2 seconds, then you wouldn't mind letting us attack while we're shrunk then?

when warrior and rangers get a complete invulnerability aswell.. doesn't matter how you put it, passive elixir s needs a big nerf just like ranger SoS and warrior EP back then.

Warriors and rangers can still cap when using those skills. I think it's even if engi gets invuln and attack, warrior/ranger gets cap ability and attack.

haha no xD, i mean you can ask anet if you can get SoS or EP as your passive, than you can continue to attack. Otherwise the time of the passive invul should be halfed. End of story.

My point is that you're asking for skills to be duplicates. Balance isn't about making everyone identical.

yep that is why you don't get my point. passive elixir s needs half duration in pvp. simple. no attacking or something else. just a flat nerf. duration should not be longer than 1.5/2 sec.

That's why you don't get my point. Passive Elixir S doesn't present the opportunities that skills like signet of stone or endure pain do. You're asking to make it objectively worse than those two skills.

passive ep and sos are already close to useless. you should not rely on a passive. simple as that. as it stands right now passive elixir s is far too powerful and deserves to be brought in line with the rest of the passives. two sec of complete invulnerability is enough time to get out of a danger zone and if it is not you should have thought ahead and not simply let your passive do all the work for you.

Really? Then why do I see almost every warrior with defy pain? SoS, sure, not that useful right now, but neither is ranger in the current meta.

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Ferus.3165

Ferus.3165

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@Vagrant.7206 said:Really? Then why do I see almost every warrior with defy pain? SoS, sure, not that useful right now, but neither is ranger in the current meta.

the passive one is not a choice. the other two traits competing for passive ep are either ~90 power bonus or mace cd reduction. Two worthless traits. doesn't make passive ep better in any way or passive elixir s less overpowered.

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Megametzler.5729

Megametzler.5729

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Don't touch the elixir. It is okay. Work on the numerous leap finishers and water fields if you want to reduce the sustain of a build that uses offensive amulets. Reduce base healing of the combo, scale with healing power perhaps?

But seriously, if the autoproc would even be a big crutch at all, I would be so glad...

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