So are T4 fractals literally just raids now?

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Irensaga.6935 said:I'm mostly being devil's advocate here. I don't run Fractales yet.

Since you mention you're not familiar with fractals, let me provide some context. The particular fight mentioned by the OP is against a Champion Ooze that breaks into baby & veteran oozes as it loses health. If those oozes reach the boss, their remaining health restores the champ's HP. (There are a bunch of other mechanics, too.) There are two primary strategies: quick burn (requiring high DPS and over quickly) versus slow & steady (which requires several minutes of coordinated fighting).

Burn the boss down so quickly that the little oozes can't reach (and heal). Duration of the fight: 15s or so (plus a random factor that might double it). Other benefits: fewer chances of mistakes, due to short fight. Con: requires a minimum amount of DPS to pull off (although it's far, far short of any sort of meta/elite benchmark level, perhaps 50% or even 65% less).

Slow & steady is depleting the boss in increments, kill all little oozes as they show up, and allowing the boss to cycle through its other mechanics. Chief advantage is that just about any group can pull it off, if people don't make mistakes and focus on the oozes properly (including 1-2 who have defiance bars that must be broken to stop them in time). It takes a few minutes, sometimes longer, depending on the group's DPS and coordination.

The chief disadvantage is that it's actually harder to pull off. It requires some DPS and lots of attention to detail, from each player. As a result, it's sometimes easier to let inexperienced or less-skilled players get downed and finish with a smaller group, sometimes just one person.

In that context, the easiest thing for the party is if everyone can improve their DPS, rather than try to run slow & steady. If one member is a lot lower, then everyone's experience is improved if that person can simply swap builds/characters.

And finally, there are four tiers of fractals. This was T4, the highest & hardest, in which people are very likely to have a lot of experience with each fight. Newbies to the dungeon can start at T1, where (a) there's a lot of room for mistakes and thus (b) time to learn. And where © the veterans who participate are likely to spend time explaining mechanics or offering tips. The same fight at T1 can be 'burned' with much, much less DPS and the OP's build would probably be fine for it.

[Irensaga.6935]

Thanks for the explanation. The T4 distinction makes sense.

Since I'm here anyway, I might as well ask a sort of unrelated question - where do dungeons figure into the difficulty curve here? Are they tougher than T1 Fractales? Or easier?

[Linken.6345]

@Irensaga.6935 said:Thanks for the explanation. The T4 distinction makes sense.

Since I'm here anyway, I might as well ask a sort of unrelated question - where do dungeons figure into the difficulty curve here? Are they tougher than T1 Fractales? Or easier?

I belive the devs have said before that dungeons are around t2 dif

[Paradox Reaper.7249]

just form ur own group and get some friends or guildies.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Linken.6345 said:

@Irensaga.6935 said:Thanks for the explanation. The T4 distinction makes sense.

Since I'm here anyway, I might as well ask a sort of unrelated question - where do dungeons figure into the difficulty curve here? Are they tougher than T1 Fractales? Or easier?

I belive the devs have said before that dungeons are around t2 dif

That sounds like something I remember reading.

In terms of personal experience, I think dungeons range in difficulty from T0 fractals to T3, even within the same path. Where I'd rate them depends on whether party members are experienced with the path, whether power or condi builds, whether the group includes highly-skilled players.

For example, dungeons were created with 'furniture' items: objects at the launch of GW2 were immune to all conditions and there are several places (especially in AC) with objects that need to be destroyed quickly, making it harder for condi builds. As another example, some coordination is required to handle the Ghost Eater and sometimes people struggle conceptually with it. That makes e.g AC/2 seem very hard to some players and ridiculously easy to others.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@"thewaterguy.4796" said:Okay, but you understand my point about this feeling very...raidy right? Like the implication is you haven't built your character "properly"

Nope. I held back going into T4s for a while because I wanted to make sure I was "good enough". It is your responsibility to make sure that you are pulling your weight.

You described your build above. You KNOW it has lower DPS than what is otherwise possible - nobody has to tell you that. So if someone calls you out on a DPS race (which burning through subject 6 is) why should you be surprised or offended? You are the one who made the choice to take a sub optimal build into a group setting and hinder the group's progress.

I'd like to add, even if they had decided to fight that encounter "properly", it might still have failed as the elite oozes have a lot of health, and if you can't burn them down before they hit the boss, it's a wipe.

GW2 is a great game in that for open world stuff, you can play whatever you want however you want, and still succeed. That even carries over to meta events, map events and world bosses. But once you step into a Raid or a (high level) Fractal, that goes out the window.

Nobody should be calling you out on poor DPS because THEY SHOUDNT HAVE TO. People should know beforehand that their custom made LB Celestial Ranger has no business in T4 Fractal, or their D/D Thief in full Plaguedoctor running healing signet is best left to open world farming.

If you want to play whatever you want, that is perfectly fine - Fractals have Tier 1 and Tier 2 just for you. But it isn't fair to walk into a T4 and expect 4 players to carry you to great loot because you want to be "unique".

[Daddicus.6128]

I avoid any group that advertises they're looking for something specific. Whenever I post my own ad in LFG, I always use the word "casual". I probably get more than my fair share of people who really don't know what they're doing, but I'm OK with that.

However, the top-tier fractals can be crazy-hard. I do not begrudge those who want a raid-style team, because it's the easiest way to make sure you're going to complete it in a reasonable amount of time (i.e. with fewer deaths).

It's a trade-off for me: I would rather be lazy and reset a few extra times than have to micro-manage my build. Some gamers are quite different in this regard. And, that's OK.

[Daddicus.6128]

@"Daddicus.6128" said:I avoid any group that advertises they're looking for something specific. Whenever I post my own ad in LFG, I always use the word "casual". I probably get more than my fair share of people who really don't know what they're doing, but I'm OK with that.

However, the top-tier fractals can be crazy-hard. I do not begrudge those who want a raid-style team, because it's the easiest way to make sure you're going to complete it in a reasonable amount of time (i.e. with fewer deaths).

It's a trade-off for me: I would rather be lazy and reset a few extra times than have to micro-manage my build. Some gamers are quite different in this regard. And, that's OK.

I should correct the above: I will join a group that specifies it wants DPS. I play a condi minion reaper, so it don't deal traditional DPS (or, burst DPS, as I like to call it), but I'm hard to kill, so those conditions are going to keep piling up.