Anet nerfed soulcleavers summit once again

[WyvernShade.8192]

So I was looking through my abilities today hoping energy costs had been reduced after latest patch, of course they weren't. While doing this though I noticed that the life syphon damage on soulcleavers has been cut in half. It's 350 now I stead of 750. Anet please stop adding hidden changes not mentioned in patch notes. The real problem with this is this is the second time you've nerfed this skill, now it's terrible instead of in a an okay position. If you're going to nerf us why don't you nerf how broken firebrand damage is. If you're still going to nerf us please at least buff us in someway, give renegade some competitive edge and an actual reason to use any of the new skills. Idk at least reduce the upkeep on soulcleavers -7 instead of 9. Do you even read the community input on renegade or have you just given up on us? I've been thinking lately that you put 3 f skills on this spec but maybe you only expect a player to be using one of the three depending on their trait line. If this is the case are you for real? You put 3 f skills in the game, I expect to be able to use them all at once.

[LucianDK.8615]

I do wonder how soulcleave compares to razorclaw and icerazor together.

[Zin.6170]

Wait, was it higher? That sucks.

[Arkantos.7460]

yep ANET NERFED IT , renegade is so dissapointing and they nerfing it more and more .... ffs

[Zin.6170]

Was it just the damage? The healing looks untouched, but then again I don't remember.

[otto.5684]

@Zin.6170 said:Was it just the damage? The healing looks untouched, but then again I don't remember.

Damage was mid 700s range before the nerf.

[Zin.6170]

Wait a sec, GW2skills.net is calculating it exactly as it is in game. So was it announced or not changed? Anyone have screens?

Edit: Looks like the wiki page has the old values. Odd change to make and not announce it, that is a significant nerf. Did it scale before? I thought it didn;t, maybe they plan that to happen.

[XxsdgxX.8109]

Can confirm ingame Soul

[lmaogg.7325]

ninja nerfs on an already weak class. Hmmm...I hardly ever use soulcleavers in wvw anyway. But this is just pathetic.

[Professor Sprout.1560]

If this change had been packaged with proper fixes to the shortbow and citadel order skills I'd be praising Anet for making a sensible balance overhaul. As it is we've had a necessary nerf to the one really strong thing this spec had going for it without any buffs to correct the serious and by-now-well-documented problems this spec has. Not ideal. Pretty sure I can still cheese this skill using a frostgun, so off to do some testing with the new values...

[Cinnamonfox.4965]

I have had access to the game only on the launch day so far, therefore I haven't been able to test much. However I did notice something about Soulcleave that I haven't seen discussed... Soulcleave's summit seemed to be scaling with the rev's healing power for the heal components, but with each buffed ally's power for the damages.

This is good news for healing renegade. Secondly, if the power coefficient (which I don't know atm) makes any meaningful difference, then this profiles renegade more strongly towards a power based subgroup.

[Professor Sprout.1560]

Sorry for double post, can't edit original in the new forums. After some playing around I'm not sure I like this nerf much. It makes Mad King runes no longer a viable burst alternative to the sustain damage provided by Nightmare/Trapper runes, which I find to be a very boring set. It has also killed off what fun I might have had with the frost gun, as the damage is no longer competitive with mace autos. Sigh, there goes a chunk of PvE build diversity...

@Cinnamonfox the power coefficient was negligible in the betas, seems like that hasn't changed much. With nearly full ascended vipers, Mad King and 25 might my renegade was draining for a little over 400 per hit, so even on a max power build the damage per hit will be well below what it used to be.

Again, this all might be less of a problem if we got some improvements to other areas. Doing Bounties out in the desert today I found the lack of survival abilities to be a serious problem - with no condition clear, escape/block skills and CC-vulnerable healing wells I was melting like a house of butter against most targets.

[Substatic.6958]

@Professor Sprout.1560 said:Doing Bounties out in the desert today I found the lack of survival abilities to be a serious problem - with no condition clear, escape/block skills and CC-vulnerable healing wells I was melting like a house of butter against most targets.

I have the same issue. The answer is going into some gimmick survivibility OW spec but then you're not doing much in the way of damage, you're just there to get credit and loot.

[WyvernShade.8192]

I feel like the devs had in mind a spec that would pulse out buffs to allies but so far with the huge energy problems all we can do is give out healing with soulcleavers, on top of that our damage isn't that high either. I think if they could just reduce energy costs the spec would become dramatically better especially if we could be using orders from above on cooldown. The problem with soulcleavers is you can cast it with one other utility but then you have no energy for any of your citadel abilities or even weapon abilities. So I'm sitting there just autoattacking for 10 seconds doing meh damage

[SappFire.5793]

Its effect was nerfed with PoF release.

[Murdock.6547]

Do any of you who are screeching about this skill getting gutted have any inkling of how broken beyond words it was? And still, to a lesser degree is?It has no icd. Mad king runes would mean you utterly obliterate anything with 1k damage ticks. (original numbers with power mainstat iirc).Not only that but this applied to 5 people. 5 people, if they all used madking runes would OBLITERATE BOSSES.This was bullshit levels of broken.

Even without exploiting, with quickness, the average build strikes 2-6 times a second. That's 2-6k damage PER PERSON. SO 10-30k DAMAGE PER SECOND OVER THE GROUP.30k dps from a single elite that -also healed for a significant amount- . That's about as good as having a 6th/11th party member.Grace of the land doesn't even give this much value unless the druid spreads over 10 classes, all being dps classes including the druid themselves that deal over 30k damage each.It needed to be toned down. And it's still strong because it scales off of the revenant's power so even support builds will occasionally have bursts of damage with a viper or berserker rev in the party. AND to my knowledge it still has no ICD?

[LucianDK.8615]

Not really sure what they wanted with soulcleave, since it renders you unable to pop up the other spirits and using weaponskills.

[JMaarse.7086]

@Murdock.6547 said:Do any of you who are screeching about this skill getting gutted have any inkling of how broken beyond words it was? And still, to a lesser degree is?It has no icd. Mad king runes would mean you utterly obliterate anything with 1k damage ticks. (original numbers with power mainstat iirc).Not only that but this applied to 5 people. 5 people, if they all used madking runes would OBLITERATE BOSSES.This was kitten levels of broken.

Even without exploiting, with quickness, the average build strikes 2-6 times a second. That's 2-6k damage PER PERSON. SO 10-30k DAMAGE PER SECOND OVER THE GROUP.30k dps from a single elite that -also healed for a significant amount- . That's about as good as having a 6th/11th party member.Grace of the land doesn't even give this much value unless the druid spreads over 10 classes, all being dps classes including the druid themselves that deal over 30k damage each.It needed to be toned down. And it's still strong because it scales off of the revenant's power so even support builds will occasionally have bursts of damage with a viper or berserker rev in the party. AND to my knowledge it still has no ICD?

It has a 1 sec internal cooldown that isn't shown on the tooltip but is there. So now it's 5 people times 400 damage per second, which is way lower that just using jalis hammers which are around 3-4k dps considering torment procs from malyx traitline.

[LucianDK.8615]

@JMaarse.7086 said:

@Murdock.6547 said:Do any of you who are screeching about this skill getting gutted have any inkling of how broken beyond words it was? And still, to a lesser degree is?It has no icd. Mad king runes would mean you utterly obliterate anything with 1k damage ticks. (original numbers with power mainstat iirc).Not only that but this applied to 5 people. 5 people, if they all used madking runes would OBLITERATE BOSSES.This was kitten levels of broken.

Even without exploiting, with quickness, the average build strikes 2-6 times a second. That's 2-6k damage PER PERSON. SO 10-30k DAMAGE PER SECOND OVER THE GROUP.30k dps from a single elite that -also healed for a significant amount- . That's about as good as having a 6th/11th party member.Grace of the land doesn't even give this much value unless the druid spreads over 10 classes, all being dps classes including the druid themselves that deal over 30k damage each.It needed to be toned down. And it's still strong because it scales off of the revenant's power so even support builds will occasionally have bursts of damage with a viper or berserker rev in the party. AND to my knowledge it still has no ICD?

It has a 1 sec internal cooldown that isn't shown on the tooltip but is there. So now it's 5 people times 400 damage per second, which is way lower that just using jalis hammers which are around 3-4k dps considering torment procs from malyx traitline.

i think you forget that it reaches its peak with 5 people, dont just think personal damage alone. Razorclaw has the same problem.

[Zin.6170]

> @JMaarse.7086 said:

@Murdock.6547 said:Do any of you who are screeching about this skill getting gutted have any inkling of how broken beyond words it was? And still, to a lesser degree is?It has no icd. Mad king runes would mean you utterly obliterate anything with 1k damage ticks. (original numbers with power mainstat iirc).Not only that but this applied to 5 people. 5 people, if they all used madking runes would OBLITERATE BOSSES.This was kitten levels of broken.

Even without exploiting, with quickness, the average build strikes 2-6 times a second. That's 2-6k damage PER PERSON. SO 10-30k DAMAGE PER SECOND OVER THE GROUP.30k dps from a single elite that -also healed for a significant amount- . That's about as good as having a 6th/11th party member.Grace of the land doesn't even give this much value unless the druid spreads over 10 classes, all being dps classes including the druid themselves that deal over 30k damage each.It needed to be toned down. And it's still strong because it scales off of the revenant's power so even support builds will occasionally have bursts of damage with a viper or berserker rev in the party. AND to my knowledge it still has no ICD?

It has a 1 sec internal cooldown that isn't shown on the tooltip but is there. So now it's 5 people times 400 damage per second, which is way lower that just using jalis hammers which are around 3-4k dps considering torment procs from malyx traitline.

I had thought it had a 1sec icd, but it doesn't appear that is the case. I can use unrelenting assault and it will proc for each hit. The guys reply was rude though, which really isn't needed.

[WyvernShade.8192]

I think some people are confused about which nerf I was talking about. I'm not talking about the no internal cooldown which by all means was a much needed nerf and was nerfed pre pof release. When pof was released soulcleavers had a 1 second internal cooldown and did 750 life siphon damage. It now, after getting ninja nerfed only does 400 life siphon damage. As a renegade player I'm angry about two things. One that the skill was nerfed to this extent and two that a net nerfed without saying anything to the player base.

[Zenith.7301]

And yet this skill is still a far superior version to the soulbeast elite, which is also a damage proc per hit with a 1 sec icd, but is 8 seconds every 60 minutes and doesn't even share with the group, doesn't heal, and is barely more damage than Kalla.

[Nivik.2961]

Would it be too broken to ask for kalla's heal to give damage reduction on all damage. It would buy you some real time for replenishing energy rather than having to use energy that we don't have for legendary stance defensive skills?

[Kidel.2057]

Why did they nerf the weakest elite spec in the game on the weakest legend?

[Murdock.6547]

@JMaarse.7086 said:

@Murdock.6547 said:Do any of you who are screeching about this skill getting gutted have any inkling of how broken beyond words it was? And still, to a lesser degree is?It has no icd. Mad king runes would mean you utterly obliterate anything with 1k damage ticks. (original numbers with power mainstat iirc).Not only that but this applied to 5 people. 5 people, if they all used madking runes would OBLITERATE BOSSES.This was kitten levels of broken.

Even without exploiting, with quickness, the average build strikes 2-6 times a second. That's 2-6k damage PER PERSON. SO 10-30k DAMAGE PER SECOND OVER THE GROUP.30k dps from a single elite that -also healed for a significant amount- . That's about as good as having a 6th/11th party member.Grace of the land doesn't even give this much value unless the druid spreads over 10 classes, all being dps classes including the druid themselves that deal over 30k damage each.It needed to be toned down. And it's still strong because it scales off of the revenant's power so even support builds will occasionally have bursts of damage with a viper or berserker rev in the party. AND to my knowledge it still has no ICD?

It has a 1 sec internal cooldown that isn't shown on the tooltip but is there. So now it's 5 people times 400 damage per second, which is way lower that just using jalis hammers which are around 3-4k dps considering torment procs from malyx traitline.Excuse me.Thats abysmal if thats the case. Not for damage, but for clarity.I hate to make you do this but could you cite your source? I simply dont want to beleive this.