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Flandre.2870

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dominik.9721

dominik.9721

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@Snellibee.2761 said:

@pah.4931 said:Wonder if these people calling for Herald nerfs have ever tried playing it. Damage is high and it is very unforgiving. Not to mention it is very meta-dependent, since it's so weak to condi. You could leave herald alone and it will drift in and out of fashion just based on what everyone else is playing.

Sure, a great rev is really fun to watch (and OH sword number could handle slight tweaks). Sure, they are a pain to play against when driven by capable players. But they should be rewarded for piloting a difficult prof. That is the very definition of balance and all class design should strive for it...

They are without a doubt glass cannons. I cannot deny that.

I think they're just a little too able to disengage from fights. But that's the only thing I would change, everything else is just fine.

They literally have barely anything to disengage from fights, the only thing they can do is engage. Revenants have no teleports or stealth mechanics to get away from a fight.

The only thing they can do to get away is kite.

I regularly see them pop the following rotation to disengage:

Riposting Shadows -> Surge of the Mists -> Another Riposting Shadows OR Phase Traversal to another Target, ideally one with a height difference.

Unless you're a thief or a mesmer, it's really difficult to keep up with that.

Plenty of classes have leaps and or ranged attacks to deal with a Revenant that is trying to get away, using phase traversal to another target just disengages you from one fight and engages you into another accomplishing absolute no safety.

I've never managed to get away from a class yet by just using skills, I always have to do kiting to disengage from people.

If you port away from far point to a mid target, you don't necessarily engage into another fight. Also Rev has huge kiting potential due to many evades, superspeed and counter cc.

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Snellibee.2761

Snellibee.2761

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@dominik.9721 said:

@"pah.4931" said:Wonder if these people calling for Herald nerfs have ever tried playing it. Damage is high and it is very unforgiving. Not to mention it is very meta-dependent, since it's so weak to condi. You could leave herald alone and it will drift in and out of fashion just based on what everyone else is playing.

Sure, a great rev is really fun to watch (and OH sword number could handle slight tweaks). Sure, they are a pain to play against when driven by capable players. But they should be rewarded for piloting a difficult prof. That is the very definition of balance and all class design should strive for it...

They are without a doubt glass cannons. I cannot deny that.

I think they're just a little too able to disengage from fights. But that's the only thing I would change, everything else is just fine.

They literally have barely anything to disengage from fights, the only thing they can do is engage. Revenants have no teleports or stealth mechanics to get away from a fight.

The only thing they can do to get away is kite.

I regularly see them pop the following rotation to disengage:

Riposting Shadows -> Surge of the Mists -> Another Riposting Shadows OR Phase Traversal to another Target, ideally one with a height difference.

Unless you're a thief or a mesmer, it's really difficult to keep up with that.

Plenty of classes have leaps and or ranged attacks to deal with a Revenant that is trying to get away, using phase traversal to another target just disengages you from one fight and engages you into another accomplishing absolute no safety.

I've never managed to get away from a class yet by just using skills, I always have to do kiting to disengage from people.

If you port away from far point to a mid target, you don't necessarily engage into another fight. Also Rev has huge kiting potential due to many evades, superspeed and counter cc.

That is true but it's an unreliable disengage because you can't always do it unlike a teleport where you blink away to wherever you want, you can't choose where your enemy is.Yes Rev has kiting potential but not 'huge'. Warriors and rangers have far better kiting potential because of their leaps allowing them to get to places other classes without leaps (Rev for example) can't get to.

Rev has nothing special to disengage so I don't know why you think they do. Literally every other class besides guardian is better at disengaging from fights.

Also regarding your "many evades and counter CC" remark, I guess the "many evades" come from riposting shadows, wich use 30 energy. Then you talk about the counter CC, the only CC a Revenant can use while trying to get away with Riposting Shadows is Surge of the mist, wich you need to use to your enemy so it's useless if you're trying to get away, or you need to use Jade Winds, wich uses 50 energy so if you're using Riposting Shadows you're unable to use Jade Winds.

So what 'counter cc' are you talking about here?

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Megametzler.5729

Megametzler.5729

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Since the focus goes a little towards rev/herals: It's specialty seems to be to stick to targets once +1ed. Due to so many gap closers, speed (and sword 3 for teleports/jumps), once a rev jumps on you, the effort to get away is extreme.

Rev might need tweaks, but no major nerfs compared to some other classes. Maybe more when mirage has been nerfed (whenever this will happen lol).

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dominik.9721

dominik.9721

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@Snellibee.2761 said:

@"pah.4931" said:Wonder if these people calling for Herald nerfs have ever tried playing it. Damage is high and it is very unforgiving. Not to mention it is very meta-dependent, since it's so weak to condi. You could leave herald alone and it will drift in and out of fashion just based on what everyone else is playing.

Sure, a great rev is really fun to watch (and OH sword number could handle slight tweaks). Sure, they are a pain to play against when driven by capable players. But they should be rewarded for piloting a difficult prof. That is the very definition of balance and all class design should strive for it...

They are without a doubt glass cannons. I cannot deny that.

I think they're just a little too able to disengage from fights. But that's the only thing I would change, everything else is just fine.

They literally have barely anything to disengage from fights, the only thing they can do is engage. Revenants have no teleports or stealth mechanics to get away from a fight.

The only thing they can do to get away is kite.

I regularly see them pop the following rotation to disengage:

Riposting Shadows -> Surge of the Mists -> Another Riposting Shadows OR Phase Traversal to another Target, ideally one with a height difference.

Unless you're a thief or a mesmer, it's really difficult to keep up with that.

Plenty of classes have leaps and or ranged attacks to deal with a Revenant that is trying to get away, using phase traversal to another target just disengages you from one fight and engages you into another accomplishing absolute no safety.

I've never managed to get away from a class yet by just using skills, I always have to do kiting to disengage from people.

If you port away from far point to a mid target, you don't necessarily engage into another fight. Also Rev has huge kiting potential due to many evades, superspeed and counter cc.

That is true but it's an unreliable disengage because you can't always do it unlike a teleport where you blink away to wherever you want, you can't choose where your enemy is.Yes Rev has kiting potential but not 'huge'. Warriors and rangers have far better kiting potential because of their leaps allowing them to get to places other classes without leaps (Rev for example) can't get to.

Rev has nothing special to disengage so I don't know why you think they do. Literally every other class besides guardian is better at disengaging from fights.

Also regarding your "many evades and counter CC" remark, I guess the "many evades" come from riposting shadows, wich use 30 energy. Then you talk about the counter CC, the only CC a Revenant can use while trying to get away with Riposting Shadows is Surge of the mist, wich you need to use to your enemy so it's useless if you're trying to get away, or you need to use Jade Winds, wich uses 50 energy so if you're using Riposting Shadows you're unable to use Jade Winds.

So what 'counter cc' are you talking about here?
  • Staff 5 evades
  • Staff 3 evades/blocks
  • Sword 3 evades and bridges cd-times
  • Riposting shadows evades, provides endurance again and also gains distance when used backwards
  • Staff 5 is an aoe cc and defintly not useless. Juking/Kiting/Disengaging is not the same as running straight from far to mid. Sudden direction changes ect. are essential
  • Glint elite also is a cc and if you swap to shiro you can use riposing shadows, followed by another dodge
  • And superspeed can sometimes be better than any 900 range leap

So what's your point?

If you manage your CDs carefully you can evade and negate attacks for like 10-15 seconds in a row.There is a reason why revenant is literally the best class to bait steal from thief.

And just because self sustaining soulbeast is even better at juking around doesn't mean Rev isn't good at it.

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Master Ketsu.4569

Master Ketsu.4569

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@"Megametzler.5729" said:Since the focus goes a little towards rev/herals: It's specialty seems to be to stick to targets once +1ed. Due to so many gap closers, speed (and sword 3 for teleports/jumps), once a rev jumps on you, the effort to get away is extreme.

Rev might need tweaks, but no major nerfs compared to some other classes. Maybe more when mirage has been nerfed (whenever this will happen lol).

People mainly just need to be reminded that Herald is only "busted" if it has very good support. It is extremely easy to shut down a Herald if your team has support and the Herald does not. Without support Herald is forced to either run jank stuff like retribution + rune of resistance ( and therefore does not have the damage people are complaining about ) or run pure glass and accept the fact that he will probably be an easy target.

In other words, Herald should only receive damage nerfs if it receives equivalent sustain/defense buffs. I'm not just saying this because I play Rev, this is pretty well known that Rev is dependent on their team and would enter back into trash tier if it got pure nerfs with nothing in return. Boonbeast/Mirage can rambo around the map with or without a team and need actual straight nerfs.

DE is technically "balanced" but badly designed in such a way that makes it feel extremely unfun to fight. It doesn't need a nerf, but it does need yet another rework. Or just kill stealth on dodge.

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Megametzler.5729

Megametzler.5729

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@Master Ketsu.4569 said:

@"Megametzler.5729" said:Since the focus goes a little towards rev/herals: It's specialty seems to be to stick to targets once +1ed. Due to so many gap closers, speed (and sword 3 for teleports/jumps), once a rev jumps on you, the effort to get away is extreme.

Rev might need tweaks, but no major nerfs compared to some other classes. Maybe more when mirage has been nerfed (whenever this will happen lol).

People mainly just need to be reminded that Herald is only "busted" if it has very good support. It is extremely easy to shut down a Herald if your team has support and the Herald does not. Without support Herald is forced to either run jank stuff like retribution + rune of resistance ( and therefore does not have the damage people are complaining about ) or run pure glass and accept the fact that he will probably be an easy target.

(...)

Without ever playing rev in ranked, that might be true for teamfights 3+ versus 3+. But in +1s on sides it is not that easy to kill it, especially not in a 1on2 scenario of course. But also in 2on2s, rev can excel depending on the other three classes, because it is so hard to pin down.

I know, I know, I am mainly playing ele, so it is not surprising I can hardly kill them, but what I am saying is: If condi mirage got nerfed, there would be one less counter to revs incredible potent +1 role. Right now it is very strong, but kind of alright. Then it might become too strong though. That's what I wanted to point out. :smile:

If balance remained at it is, then yes, totally agreed, reducing its damage should only come with sustain buffs, especially some condi cleanse to be able to cope with condi mirage a little better. But I hope some things will change (the mentioned boonbeast/mirage bullcrap). :wink:

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Shala.8352

Shala.8352

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Rlly? Herald??? The class everyone focus first because is made of paper and will go down first everytime? Simply the squieshiest class in the meta right now?

Man i m revenant platinum rank player, and i can tell that good thief usualy don't try to attack anything, they just decap or +1, except against revenant, the only target they can burst down in 2-3 moves. Also warrior, i notices they never use rampage in team fights, even against necros! they just keep the rampage cooldown untill they spot the revenant and use it only for him!Herald is countered even by guardian core!! Come on, if you can't win against herald, you should start to think to play it just for a couple of games, not in bronze league, and watch at the end of the match how many deaths you had. People blaming sword offhand, when mesmer power can do triple the dmg burst from stealth! And if fail go stealth again and repeat! If Revenant fail is just a sitting duck.

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Shala.8352

Shala.8352

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@Vagrant.7206 said:

@pah.4931 said:Wonder if these people calling for Herald nerfs have ever tried playing it. Damage is high and it is very unforgiving. Not to mention it is very meta-dependent, since it's so weak to condi. You could leave herald alone and it will drift in and out of fashion just based on what everyone else is playing.

Sure, a great rev is really fun to watch (and OH sword number could handle slight tweaks). Sure, they are a pain to play against when driven by capable players. But they should be rewarded for piloting a difficult prof. That is the very definition of balance and all class design should strive for it...

They are without a doubt glass cannons. I cannot deny that.

I think they're just a little too able to disengage from fights. But that's the only thing I would change, everything else is just fine.

They literally have barely anything to disengage from fights, the only thing they can do is engage. Revenants have no teleports or stealth mechanics to get away from a fight.

The only thing they can do to get away is kite.

I regularly see them pop the following rotation to disengage:

Riposting Shadows -> Surge of the Mists -> Another Riposting Shadows OR Phase Traversal to another Target, ideally one with a height difference.

Unless you're a thief or a mesmer, it's really difficult to keep up with that.

lol, your skill chain make no sense XD, that revenant never engaged in the first place! How he has the energy for Risposting Shadow- Surge of the mist - again risposting shadow lol, its 80 energy total!!! Are you sure this revenant isnt disengaging whitout even starting a fight? XD XD XD You guys never played revenant, if you did you know that what you are writing is simply science fiction! Revenant is the worst class in disengaging, sure its very good in +1, but disengaging.... maybe only second to necro!

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dominik.9721

dominik.9721

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@Shala.8352 said:

@pah.4931 said:Wonder if these people calling for Herald nerfs have ever tried playing it. Damage is high and it is very unforgiving. Not to mention it is very meta-dependent, since it's so weak to condi. You could leave herald alone and it will drift in and out of fashion just based on what everyone else is playing.

Sure, a great rev is really fun to watch (and OH sword number could handle slight tweaks). Sure, they are a pain to play against when driven by capable players. But they should be rewarded for piloting a difficult prof. That is the very definition of balance and all class design should strive for it...

They are without a doubt glass cannons. I cannot deny that.

I think they're just a little too able to disengage from fights. But that's the only thing I would change, everything else is just fine.

They literally have barely anything to disengage from fights, the only thing they can do is engage. Revenants have no teleports or stealth mechanics to get away from a fight.

The only thing they can do to get away is kite.

I regularly see them pop the following rotation to disengage:

Riposting Shadows -> Surge of the Mists -> Another Riposting Shadows OR Phase Traversal to another Target, ideally one with a height difference.

Unless you're a thief or a mesmer, it's really difficult to keep up with that.

lol, your skill chain make no sense XD, that revenant never engaged in the first place! How he has the energy for Risposting Shadow- Surge of the mist - again risposting shadow lol, its 80 energy total!!! Are you sure this revenant isnt disengaging whitout even starting a fight? XD XD XD You guys never played revenant, if you did you know that what you are writing is simply science fiction! Revenant is the worst class in disengaging, sure its very good in +1, but disengaging.... maybe only second to necro!

I mean the skill chain still doesn't make much sense, but you do realize rev gets his energy back when swapping to shiro? XD XD XD

If I have to leave midfight on forest for example, I can easily dodge, staff 3, dodge, staff 5, (if glintheal not rdy) swapp to shiro, use riposting shadows, dodge again and 1 sec later I can target chieftain/svanir or an opponent and port away through the wall.

It's not wvw where you get chased openfield by a zerg consisting out of longbow rangers or sth.

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Tescao.3042

Tescao.3042

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@dominik.9721 said:

@pah.4931 said:Wonder if these people calling for Herald nerfs have ever tried playing it. Damage is high and it is very unforgiving. Not to mention it is very meta-dependent, since it's so weak to condi. You could leave herald alone and it will drift in and out of fashion just based on what everyone else is playing.

Sure, a great rev is really fun to watch (and OH sword number could handle slight tweaks). Sure, they are a pain to play against when driven by capable players. But they should be rewarded for piloting a difficult prof. That is the very definition of balance and all class design should strive for it...

They are without a doubt glass cannons. I cannot deny that.

I think they're just a little too able to disengage from fights. But that's the only thing I would change, everything else is just fine.

They literally have barely anything to disengage from fights, the only thing they can do is engage. Revenants have no teleports or stealth mechanics to get away from a fight.

The only thing they can do to get away is kite.

I regularly see them pop the following rotation to disengage:

Riposting Shadows -> Surge of the Mists -> Another Riposting Shadows OR Phase Traversal to another Target, ideally one with a height difference.

Unless you're a thief or a mesmer, it's really difficult to keep up with that.

lol, your skill chain make no sense XD, that revenant never engaged in the first place! How he has the energy for Risposting Shadow- Surge of the mist - again risposting shadow lol, its 80 energy total!!! Are you sure this revenant isnt disengaging whitout even starting a fight? XD XD XD You guys never played revenant, if you did you know that what you are writing is simply science fiction! Revenant is the worst class in disengaging, sure its very good in +1, but disengaging.... maybe only second to necro!

I mean the skill chain still doesn't make much sense, but you do realize rev gets his energy back when swapping to shiro? XD XD XD

If I have to leave midfight on forest for example, I can easily dodge, staff 3, dodge, staff 5, (if glintheal not rdy) swapp to shiro, use riposting shadows, dodge again and 1 sec later I can target chieftain/svanir or an opponent and port away through the wall.

It's not wvw where you get chased openfield by a zerg or sth.

You understand that if swapping in Shiro just like that, you can lose break stun.

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dominik.9721

dominik.9721

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@DomHemingway.8436 said:

@pah.4931 said:Wonder if these people calling for Herald nerfs have ever tried playing it. Damage is high and it is very unforgiving. Not to mention it is very meta-dependent, since it's so weak to condi. You could leave herald alone and it will drift in and out of fashion just based on what everyone else is playing.

Sure, a great rev is really fun to watch (and OH sword number could handle slight tweaks). Sure, they are a pain to play against when driven by capable players. But they should be rewarded for piloting a difficult prof. That is the very definition of balance and all class design should strive for it...

They are without a doubt glass cannons. I cannot deny that.

I think they're just a little too able to disengage from fights. But that's the only thing I would change, everything else is just fine.

They literally have barely anything to disengage from fights, the only thing they can do is engage. Revenants have no teleports or stealth mechanics to get away from a fight.

The only thing they can do to get away is kite.

I regularly see them pop the following rotation to disengage:

Riposting Shadows -> Surge of the Mists -> Another Riposting Shadows OR Phase Traversal to another Target, ideally one with a height difference.

Unless you're a thief or a mesmer, it's really difficult to keep up with that.

lol, your skill chain make no sense XD, that revenant never engaged in the first place! How he has the energy for Risposting Shadow- Surge of the mist - again risposting shadow lol, its 80 energy total!!! Are you sure this revenant isnt disengaging whitout even starting a fight? XD XD XD You guys never played revenant, if you did you know that what you are writing is simply science fiction! Revenant is the worst class in disengaging, sure its very good in +1, but disengaging.... maybe only second to necro!

I mean the skill chain still doesn't make much sense, but you do realize rev gets his energy back when swapping to shiro? XD XD XD

If I have to leave midfight on forest for example, I can easily dodge, staff 3, dodge, staff 5, (if glintheal not rdy) swapp to shiro, use riposting shadows, dodge again and 1 sec later I can target chieftain/svanir or an opponent and port away through the wall.

It's not wvw where you get chased openfield by a zerg or sth.

You understand that if swapping in Shiro just like that, you can lose break stun.

Ushually, you want to cc a rev when he's in glint and not in shiro for a reason.And actually this is known since 2015 HoT realese.

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Tescao.3042

Tescao.3042

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@dominik.9721 said:

@pah.4931 said:Wonder if these people calling for Herald nerfs have ever tried playing it. Damage is high and it is very unforgiving. Not to mention it is very meta-dependent, since it's so weak to condi. You could leave herald alone and it will drift in and out of fashion just based on what everyone else is playing.

Sure, a great rev is really fun to watch (and OH sword number could handle slight tweaks). Sure, they are a pain to play against when driven by capable players. But they should be rewarded for piloting a difficult prof. That is the very definition of balance and all class design should strive for it...

They are without a doubt glass cannons. I cannot deny that.

I think they're just a little too able to disengage from fights. But that's the only thing I would change, everything else is just fine.

They literally have barely anything to disengage from fights, the only thing they can do is engage. Revenants have no teleports or stealth mechanics to get away from a fight.

The only thing they can do to get away is kite.

I regularly see them pop the following rotation to disengage:

Riposting Shadows -> Surge of the Mists -> Another Riposting Shadows OR Phase Traversal to another Target, ideally one with a height difference.

Unless you're a thief or a mesmer, it's really difficult to keep up with that.

lol, your skill chain make no sense XD, that revenant never engaged in the first place! How he has the energy for Risposting Shadow- Surge of the mist - again risposting shadow lol, its 80 energy total!!! Are you sure this revenant isnt disengaging whitout even starting a fight? XD XD XD You guys never played revenant, if you did you know that what you are writing is simply science fiction! Revenant is the worst class in disengaging, sure its very good in +1, but disengaging.... maybe only second to necro!

I mean the skill chain still doesn't make much sense, but you do realize rev gets his energy back when swapping to shiro? XD XD XD

If I have to leave midfight on forest for example, I can easily dodge, staff 3, dodge, staff 5, (if glintheal not rdy) swapp to shiro, use riposting shadows, dodge again and 1 sec later I can target chieftain/svanir or an opponent and port away through the wall.

It's not wvw where you get chased openfield by a zerg or sth.

You understand that if swapping in Shiro just like that, you can lose break stun.

Ushually, you want to cc a rev when he's in glint and not in shiro for a reason.And actually this is known since 2015 HoT realese.

Apparently you don't understand my question.

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sephiroth.4217

sephiroth.4217

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@DomHemingway.8436 said:

@pah.4931 said:Wonder if these people calling for Herald nerfs have ever tried playing it. Damage is high and it is very unforgiving. Not to mention it is very meta-dependent, since it's so weak to condi. You could leave herald alone and it will drift in and out of fashion just based on what everyone else is playing.

Sure, a great rev is really fun to watch (and OH sword number could handle slight tweaks). Sure, they are a pain to play against when driven by capable players. But they should be rewarded for piloting a difficult prof. That is the very definition of balance and all class design should strive for it...

They are without a doubt glass cannons. I cannot deny that.

I think they're just a little too able to disengage from fights. But that's the only thing I would change, everything else is just fine.

They literally have barely anything to disengage from fights, the only thing they can do is engage. Revenants have no teleports or stealth mechanics to get away from a fight.

The only thing they can do to get away is kite.

I regularly see them pop the following rotation to disengage:

Riposting Shadows -> Surge of the Mists -> Another Riposting Shadows OR Phase Traversal to another Target, ideally one with a height difference.

Unless you're a thief or a mesmer, it's really difficult to keep up with that.

lol, your skill chain make no sense XD, that revenant never engaged in the first place! How he has the energy for Risposting Shadow- Surge of the mist - again risposting shadow lol, its 80 energy total!!! Are you sure this revenant isnt disengaging whitout even starting a fight? XD XD XD You guys never played revenant, if you did you know that what you are writing is simply science fiction! Revenant is the worst class in disengaging, sure its very good in +1, but disengaging.... maybe only second to necro!

I mean the skill chain still doesn't make much sense, but you do realize rev gets his energy back when swapping to shiro? XD XD XD

If I have to leave midfight on forest for example, I can easily dodge, staff 3, dodge, staff 5, (if glintheal not rdy) swapp to shiro, use riposting shadows, dodge again and 1 sec later I can target chieftain/svanir or an opponent and port away through the wall.

It's not wvw where you get chased openfield by a zerg or sth.

You understand that if swapping in Shiro just like that, you can lose break stun.

Ushually, you want to cc a rev when he's in glint and not in shiro for a reason.And actually this is known since 2015 HoT realese.

useless answer.

Im pretty sure they are discussing mobility and not stun breaks.

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Tescao.3042

Tescao.3042

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@sephiroth.4217 said:

@pah.4931 said:Wonder if these people calling for Herald nerfs have ever tried playing it. Damage is high and it is very unforgiving. Not to mention it is very meta-dependent, since it's so weak to condi. You could leave herald alone and it will drift in and out of fashion just based on what everyone else is playing.

Sure, a great rev is really fun to watch (and OH sword number could handle slight tweaks). Sure, they are a pain to play against when driven by capable players. But they should be rewarded for piloting a difficult prof. That is the very definition of balance and all class design should strive for it...

They are without a doubt glass cannons. I cannot deny that.

I think they're just a little too able to disengage from fights. But that's the only thing I would change, everything else is just fine.

They literally have barely anything to disengage from fights, the only thing they can do is engage. Revenants have no teleports or stealth mechanics to get away from a fight.

The only thing they can do to get away is kite.

I regularly see them pop the following rotation to disengage:

Riposting Shadows -> Surge of the Mists -> Another Riposting Shadows OR Phase Traversal to another Target, ideally one with a height difference.

Unless you're a thief or a mesmer, it's really difficult to keep up with that.

lol, your skill chain make no sense XD, that revenant never engaged in the first place! How he has the energy for Risposting Shadow- Surge of the mist - again risposting shadow lol, its 80 energy total!!! Are you sure this revenant isnt disengaging whitout even starting a fight? XD XD XD You guys never played revenant, if you did you know that what you are writing is simply science fiction! Revenant is the worst class in disengaging, sure its very good in +1, but disengaging.... maybe only second to necro!

I mean the skill chain still doesn't make much sense, but you do realize rev gets his energy back when swapping to shiro? XD XD XD

If I have to leave midfight on forest for example, I can easily dodge, staff 3, dodge, staff 5, (if glintheal not rdy) swapp to shiro, use riposting shadows, dodge again and 1 sec later I can target chieftain/svanir or an opponent and port away through the wall.

It's not wvw where you get chased openfield by a zerg or sth.

You understand that if swapping in Shiro just like that, you can lose break stun.

Ushually, you want to cc a rev when he's in glint and not in shiro for a reason.And actually this is known since 2015 HoT realese.

useless answer.

Im pretty sure they are discussing mobility and not stun breaks.

Only he uses as argument swapping in Shiro for recovery energy. He didn't think about the other side of the coin.

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dominik.9721

dominik.9721

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@DomHemingway.8436 said:

@pah.4931 said:Wonder if these people calling for Herald nerfs have ever tried playing it. Damage is high and it is very unforgiving. Not to mention it is very meta-dependent, since it's so weak to condi. You could leave herald alone and it will drift in and out of fashion just based on what everyone else is playing.

Sure, a great rev is really fun to watch (and OH sword number could handle slight tweaks). Sure, they are a pain to play against when driven by capable players. But they should be rewarded for piloting a difficult prof. That is the very definition of balance and all class design should strive for it...

They are without a doubt glass cannons. I cannot deny that.

I think they're just a little too able to disengage from fights. But that's the only thing I would change, everything else is just fine.

They literally have barely anything to disengage from fights, the only thing they can do is engage. Revenants have no teleports or stealth mechanics to get away from a fight.

The only thing they can do to get away is kite.

I regularly see them pop the following rotation to disengage:

Riposting Shadows -> Surge of the Mists -> Another Riposting Shadows OR Phase Traversal to another Target, ideally one with a height difference.

Unless you're a thief or a mesmer, it's really difficult to keep up with that.

lol, your skill chain make no sense XD, that revenant never engaged in the first place! How he has the energy for Risposting Shadow- Surge of the mist - again risposting shadow lol, its 80 energy total!!! Are you sure this revenant isnt disengaging whitout even starting a fight? XD XD XD You guys never played revenant, if you did you know that what you are writing is simply science fiction! Revenant is the worst class in disengaging, sure its very good in +1, but disengaging.... maybe only second to necro!

I mean the skill chain still doesn't make much sense, but you do realize rev gets his energy back when swapping to shiro? XD XD XD

If I have to leave midfight on forest for example, I can easily dodge, staff 3, dodge, staff 5, (if glintheal not rdy) swapp to shiro, use riposting shadows, dodge again and 1 sec later I can target chieftain/svanir or an opponent and port away through the wall.

It's not wvw where you get chased openfield by a zerg or sth.

You understand that if swapping in Shiro just like that, you can lose break stun.

Ushually, you want to cc a rev when he's in glint and not in shiro for a reason.And actually this is known since 2015 HoT realese.

useless answer.

Im pretty sure they are discussing mobility and not stun breaks.

Only he uses as argument swapping in Shiro for recovery energy. He didn't think about the other side of the coin.

There is no other side of the coin, since reposting shadow is a stunbreak.And while evading you can't get ccd, anyways - so your comment is pretty much usless.

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Tescao.3042

Tescao.3042

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@dominik.9721 said:

@pah.4931 said:Wonder if these people calling for Herald nerfs have ever tried playing it. Damage is high and it is very unforgiving. Not to mention it is very meta-dependent, since it's so weak to condi. You could leave herald alone and it will drift in and out of fashion just based on what everyone else is playing.

Sure, a great rev is really fun to watch (and OH sword number could handle slight tweaks). Sure, they are a pain to play against when driven by capable players. But they should be rewarded for piloting a difficult prof. That is the very definition of balance and all class design should strive for it...

They are without a doubt glass cannons. I cannot deny that.

I think they're just a little too able to disengage from fights. But that's the only thing I would change, everything else is just fine.

They literally have barely anything to disengage from fights, the only thing they can do is engage. Revenants have no teleports or stealth mechanics to get away from a fight.

The only thing they can do to get away is kite.

I regularly see them pop the following rotation to disengage:

Riposting Shadows -> Surge of the Mists -> Another Riposting Shadows OR Phase Traversal to another Target, ideally one with a height difference.

Unless you're a thief or a mesmer, it's really difficult to keep up with that.

lol, your skill chain make no sense XD, that revenant never engaged in the first place! How he has the energy for Risposting Shadow- Surge of the mist - again risposting shadow lol, its 80 energy total!!! Are you sure this revenant isnt disengaging whitout even starting a fight? XD XD XD You guys never played revenant, if you did you know that what you are writing is simply science fiction! Revenant is the worst class in disengaging, sure its very good in +1, but disengaging.... maybe only second to necro!

I mean the skill chain still doesn't make much sense, but you do realize rev gets his energy back when swapping to shiro? XD XD XD

If I have to leave midfight on forest for example, I can easily dodge, staff 3, dodge, staff 5, (if glintheal not rdy) swapp to shiro, use riposting shadows, dodge again and 1 sec later I can target chieftain/svanir or an opponent and port away through the wall.

It's not wvw where you get chased openfield by a zerg or sth.

You understand that if swapping in Shiro just like that, you can lose break stun.

Ushually, you want to cc a rev when he's in glint and not in shiro for a reason.And actually this is known since 2015 HoT realese.

useless answer.

Im pretty sure they are discussing mobility and not stun breaks.

Only he uses as argument swapping in Shiro for recovery energy. He didn't think about the other side of the coin.

There is no other side of the coin, since reposting shadow is a stunbreak.And while evading you can't get ccd, anyways - so your comment is pretty much usless.

I knew you'd say that. You're suggesting we run and run again. Who is going to do damage at this time? This type of game will be called -1.You have not answered the first question, and talk about uselessness.

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dominik.9721

dominik.9721

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@DomHemingway.8436 said:

@pah.4931 said:Wonder if these people calling for Herald nerfs have ever tried playing it. Damage is high and it is very unforgiving. Not to mention it is very meta-dependent, since it's so weak to condi. You could leave herald alone and it will drift in and out of fashion just based on what everyone else is playing.

Sure, a great rev is really fun to watch (and OH sword number could handle slight tweaks). Sure, they are a pain to play against when driven by capable players. But they should be rewarded for piloting a difficult prof. That is the very definition of balance and all class design should strive for it...

They are without a doubt glass cannons. I cannot deny that.

I think they're just a little too able to disengage from fights. But that's the only thing I would change, everything else is just fine.

They literally have barely anything to disengage from fights, the only thing they can do is engage. Revenants have no teleports or stealth mechanics to get away from a fight.

The only thing they can do to get away is kite.

I regularly see them pop the following rotation to disengage:

Riposting Shadows -> Surge of the Mists -> Another Riposting Shadows OR Phase Traversal to another Target, ideally one with a height difference.

Unless you're a thief or a mesmer, it's really difficult to keep up with that.

lol, your skill chain make no sense XD, that revenant never engaged in the first place! How he has the energy for Risposting Shadow- Surge of the mist - again risposting shadow lol, its 80 energy total!!! Are you sure this revenant isnt disengaging whitout even starting a fight? XD XD XD You guys never played revenant, if you did you know that what you are writing is simply science fiction! Revenant is the worst class in disengaging, sure its very good in +1, but disengaging.... maybe only second to necro!

I mean the skill chain still doesn't make much sense, but you do realize rev gets his energy back when swapping to shiro? XD XD XD

If I have to leave midfight on forest for example, I can easily dodge, staff 3, dodge, staff 5, (if glintheal not rdy) swapp to shiro, use riposting shadows, dodge again and 1 sec later I can target chieftain/svanir or an opponent and port away through the wall.

It's not wvw where you get chased openfield by a zerg or sth.

You understand that if swapping in Shiro just like that, you can lose break stun.

Ushually, you want to cc a rev when he's in glint and not in shiro for a reason.And actually this is known since 2015 HoT realese.

useless answer.

Im pretty sure they are discussing mobility and not stun breaks.

Only he uses as argument swapping in Shiro for recovery energy. He didn't think about the other side of the coin.

There is no other side of the coin, since reposting shadow is a stunbreak.And while evading you can't get ccd, anyways - so your comment is pretty much usless.

I knew you'd say that. You're suggesting we run and run again. Who is going to do damage at this time?

Topic is disengaging.Ushually, you think first before writing - you should try this.

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Tescao.3042

Tescao.3042

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@dominik.9721 said:

@pah.4931 said:Wonder if these people calling for Herald nerfs have ever tried playing it. Damage is high and it is very unforgiving. Not to mention it is very meta-dependent, since it's so weak to condi. You could leave herald alone and it will drift in and out of fashion just based on what everyone else is playing.

Sure, a great rev is really fun to watch (and OH sword number could handle slight tweaks). Sure, they are a pain to play against when driven by capable players. But they should be rewarded for piloting a difficult prof. That is the very definition of balance and all class design should strive for it...

They are without a doubt glass cannons. I cannot deny that.

I think they're just a little too able to disengage from fights. But that's the only thing I would change, everything else is just fine.

They literally have barely anything to disengage from fights, the only thing they can do is engage. Revenants have no teleports or stealth mechanics to get away from a fight.

The only thing they can do to get away is kite.

I regularly see them pop the following rotation to disengage:

Riposting Shadows -> Surge of the Mists -> Another Riposting Shadows OR Phase Traversal to another Target, ideally one with a height difference.

Unless you're a thief or a mesmer, it's really difficult to keep up with that.

lol, your skill chain make no sense XD, that revenant never engaged in the first place! How he has the energy for Risposting Shadow- Surge of the mist - again risposting shadow lol, its 80 energy total!!! Are you sure this revenant isnt disengaging whitout even starting a fight? XD XD XD You guys never played revenant, if you did you know that what you are writing is simply science fiction! Revenant is the worst class in disengaging, sure its very good in +1, but disengaging.... maybe only second to necro!

I mean the skill chain still doesn't make much sense, but you do realize rev gets his energy back when swapping to shiro? XD XD XD

If I have to leave midfight on forest for example, I can easily dodge, staff 3, dodge, staff 5, (if glintheal not rdy) swapp to shiro, use riposting shadows, dodge again and 1 sec later I can target chieftain/svanir or an opponent and port away through the wall.

It's not wvw where you get chased openfield by a zerg or sth.

You understand that if swapping in Shiro just like that, you can lose break stun.

Ushually, you want to cc a rev when he's in glint and not in shiro for a reason.And actually this is known since 2015 HoT realese.

useless answer.

Im pretty sure they are discussing mobility and not stun breaks.

Only he uses as argument swapping in Shiro for recovery energy. He didn't think about the other side of the coin.

There is no other side of the coin, since reposting shadow is a stunbreak.And while evading you can't get ccd, anyways - so your comment is pretty much usless.

I knew you'd say that. You're suggesting we run and run again. Who is going to do damage at this time?

Topic is disengaging, ushually you think first before writing.

Don't tell me what to do. I won't tell you where to go.

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Sampson.2403

Sampson.2403

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@Geiir.7603 said:Deadeye? It is close to useless in the current meta. Stealth on dodge is annoying, but far from gamebreaking as it is pretty easy to both dodge his burst and find him even though he's in stealth :D

Yeah tell Astange (aka | Clown | ) that dead eye is useless - hes been in the top 10 playing deadeye for a while now. His playstyle is super effective and extremely annoying.

People gotta remember, solo/duoQ with no coms is not the same thing as organized, tournament team play.

95% of the sPvP games played in a given season are ranked solo/duoQ, so balance should probably be built around those conditions, not so much tournament play which hardly anyone does.

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