Spellbreaker Feedback

[Majirah.5089]

@Daharahj.1325 said:

@Majirah.5089 said:

@Daharahj.1325 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Daharahj.1325 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Daharahj.1325 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Euthymias.7984 said:

@Majirah.5089 said:

It's not like it should never hit enemy players. I have dodged it many times. Most of the time. But not 100% of the time. If it was always dodged it would be useless. The point is that it can be dodged and avoided contrary to popular belief.

You didnt quite answer my question.Even if it misses the player, it can still give the benefits (resistance, cleanse, stab, Adrenal Health, ect) by hitting their AI allies. That's what I was asking about.

cant you shatter them? (Mesmer)Pets can be taken off attack to follow the ranger away from the counter range.

No, you can't shatter without triggering full counter.

Well i guess the problem is, you are expecting all professions to be able to perfectly fight any other prof without being sub-optimal. It just is not going to happen. Your best bet would be to have your team alternate with you, nothing says you have to be the one to take on every threat right? You probably have better use of your prof than to battle out a bad match up.

So if there's a mesmer on my team should I just tell him to avoid any teamfight where a warrior might be present?

No you have them hold out and swap out with them as needed (if they are even having that hard a time that is.)

So you're expecting my team to have unrealistic coordination just because there's a warrior on the other side.

What's the warrior giving up for this kind of strength exactly?

So there isn't 4 other players the Mesmer can fight or enemy points it can decap? It MUST attack the warrior? Heaven forbid he gets off a full counter. It's not like clones don't provide benefits to the Mesmer either. There are pros and cons. What is so hard about either baiting full counter or waiting till they use it to attack? If the warrior just ran into a team he will likely use it pretty quickly. 1.5 seconds later have your clones shatter on him.

People are acting like they are required to do differential equations when it comes to thinking about how to play or adapting to a situation. It really isn't that difficult.

But that throws your "just don't trigger fullcounter" defense right out the window, since it's guaranteed to trigger if the Warrior has any sense and stands in bad on purpose.

No I said to bait it. I also said that you shouldn't think to avoid it 100% of the time. My whole point is people think that it is unavoidable with zero counter play. That is just completely false. There are ways to avoid it, but you can't expect it to work 100% of them time.

Same goes for any attack. Tons of people complain about getting one shot by deaths judgement. I personally have only had that happen to me 1 maybe 2 times and that was because I was fighting to other people and just didn't notice the laser beam telling me to dodge. It's my fault. I wasn't paying enough attention. It happens. But 90%+ of the time it is easy to avoid.

Even if something is avoidable, even if it's easy to avoid, doesn't mean that all professions can avoid it in every situation. If they could it would be stupid. But all players can avoid it plenty of times without much difficulty.

[Majirah.5089]

Honestly it doesn't matter. Anet will do what they want to do. I personally feel we should have more stuff like that in the game and that it is perfectly fine. I'm not even a warrior main in the slightest.

Many people disagree with me. That's fine. Anet will decide.

[Unholy Pillager.3791]

@Majirah.5089 said:

@Daharahj.1325 said:

@Majirah.5089 said:

@Daharahj.1325 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Daharahj.1325 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Daharahj.1325 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Euthymias.7984 said:

@Majirah.5089 said:

It's not like it should never hit enemy players. I have dodged it many times. Most of the time. But not 100% of the time. If it was always dodged it would be useless. The point is that it can be dodged and avoided contrary to popular belief.

You didnt quite answer my question.Even if it misses the player, it can still give the benefits (resistance, cleanse, stab, Adrenal Health, ect) by hitting their AI allies. That's what I was asking about.

cant you shatter them? (Mesmer)Pets can be taken off attack to follow the ranger away from the counter range.

No, you can't shatter without triggering full counter.

Well i guess the problem is, you are expecting all professions to be able to perfectly fight any other prof without being sub-optimal. It just is not going to happen. Your best bet would be to have your team alternate with you, nothing says you have to be the one to take on every threat right? You probably have better use of your prof than to battle out a bad match up.

So if there's a mesmer on my team should I just tell him to avoid any teamfight where a warrior might be present?

No you have them hold out and swap out with them as needed (if they are even having that hard a time that is.)

So you're expecting my team to have unrealistic coordination just because there's a warrior on the other side.

What's the warrior giving up for this kind of strength exactly?

So there isn't 4 other players the Mesmer can fight or enemy points it can decap? It MUST attack the warrior? Heaven forbid he gets off a full counter. It's not like clones don't provide benefits to the Mesmer either. There are pros and cons. What is so hard about either baiting full counter or waiting till they use it to attack? If the warrior just ran into a team he will likely use it pretty quickly. 1.5 seconds later have your clones shatter on him.

People are acting like they are required to do differential equations when it comes to thinking about how to play or adapting to a situation. It really isn't that difficult.

But that throws your "just don't trigger fullcounter" defense right out the window, since it's guaranteed to trigger if the Warrior has any sense and stands in bad on purpose.

No I said to bait it. I also said that you shouldn't think to avoid it 100% of the time. My whole point is people think that it is unavoidable with zero counter play. That is just completely false. There are ways to avoid it, but you can't expect it to work 100% of them time.

Same goes for any attack. Tons of people complain about getting one shot by deaths judgement. I personally have only had that happen to me 1 maybe 2 times and that was because I was fighting to other people and just didn't notice the laser beam telling me to dodge. It's my fault. I wasn't paying enough attention. It happens. But 90%+ of the time it is easy to avoid.

Even if something is avoidable, even if it's easy to avoid, doesn't mean that all professions can avoid it in every situation. If they could it would be stupid. But all players can avoid it plenty of times without much difficulty.

You can't bait it in a teamfight, which is the problem. In a teamfight, FC will go off every 8 seconds like clockwork, because there is no way you can coordinate the timing of three people throwing AoEs onto the point around one player on the other team.

[Darknicrofia.2604]

@Daharahj.1325 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Daharahj.1325 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Daharahj.1325 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Euthymias.7984 said:

@Majirah.5089 said:

It's not like it should never hit enemy players. I have dodged it many times. Most of the time. But not 100% of the time. If it was always dodged it would be useless. The point is that it can be dodged and avoided contrary to popular belief.

You didnt quite answer my question.Even if it misses the player, it can still give the benefits (resistance, cleanse, stab, Adrenal Health, ect) by hitting their AI allies. That's what I was asking about.

cant you shatter them? (Mesmer)Pets can be taken off attack to follow the ranger away from the counter range.

No, you can't shatter without triggering full counter.

Well i guess the problem is, you are expecting all professions to be able to perfectly fight any other prof without being sub-optimal. It just is not going to happen. Your best bet would be to have your team alternate with you, nothing says you have to be the one to take on every threat right? You probably have better use of your prof than to battle out a bad match up.

So if there's a mesmer on my team should I just tell him to avoid any teamfight where a warrior might be present?

No you have them hold out and swap out with them as needed (if they are even having that hard a time that is.)

So you're expecting my team to have unrealistic coordination just because there's a warrior on the other side.

What's the warrior giving up for this kind of strength exactly?

See what you don't understand is that the warrior is being super skillful for speccing into SB and binding F2 to a button and being able to press it.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

@Daharahj.1325 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Daharahj.1325 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Daharahj.1325 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Euthymias.7984 said:

@Majirah.5089 said:

It's not like it should never hit enemy players. I have dodged it many times. Most of the time. But not 100% of the time. If it was always dodged it would be useless. The point is that it can be dodged and avoided contrary to popular belief.

You didnt quite answer my question.Even if it misses the player, it can still give the benefits (resistance, cleanse, stab, Adrenal Health, ect) by hitting their AI allies. That's what I was asking about.

cant you shatter them? (Mesmer)Pets can be taken off attack to follow the ranger away from the counter range.

No, you can't shatter without triggering full counter.

Well i guess the problem is, you are expecting all professions to be able to perfectly fight any other prof without being sub-optimal. It just is not going to happen. Your best bet would be to have your team alternate with you, nothing says you have to be the one to take on every threat right? You probably have better use of your prof than to battle out a bad match up.

So if there's a mesmer on my team should I just tell him to avoid any teamfight where a warrior might be present?

No you have them hold out and swap out with them as needed (if they are even having that hard a time that is.)

So you're expecting my team to have unrealistic coordination just because there's a warrior on the other side.

What's the warrior giving up for this kind of strength exactly?

@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:

@Majirah.5089 said:

@Daharahj.1325 said:

@Majirah.5089 said:

@Daharahj.1325 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Daharahj.1325 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Daharahj.1325 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Euthymias.7984 said:

@Majirah.5089 said:

It's not like it should never hit enemy players. I have dodged it many times. Most of the time. But not 100% of the time. If it was always dodged it would be useless. The point is that it can be dodged and avoided contrary to popular belief.

You didnt quite answer my question.Even if it misses the player, it can still give the benefits (resistance, cleanse, stab, Adrenal Health, ect) by hitting their AI allies. That's what I was asking about.

cant you shatter them? (Mesmer)Pets can be taken off attack to follow the ranger away from the counter range.

No, you can't shatter without triggering full counter.

Well i guess the problem is, you are expecting all professions to be able to perfectly fight any other prof without being sub-optimal. It just is not going to happen. Your best bet would be to have your team alternate with you, nothing says you have to be the one to take on every threat right? You probably have better use of your prof than to battle out a bad match up.

So if there's a mesmer on my team should I just tell him to avoid any teamfight where a warrior might be present?

No you have them hold out and swap out with them as needed (if they are even having that hard a time that is.)

So you're expecting my team to have unrealistic coordination just because there's a warrior on the other side.

What's the warrior giving up for this kind of strength exactly?

So there isn't 4 other players the Mesmer can fight or enemy points it can decap? It MUST attack the warrior? Heaven forbid he gets off a full counter. It's not like clones don't provide benefits to the Mesmer either. There are pros and cons. What is so hard about either baiting full counter or waiting till they use it to attack? If the warrior just ran into a team he will likely use it pretty quickly. 1.5 seconds later have your clones shatter on him.

People are acting like they are required to do differential equations when it comes to thinking about how to play or adapting to a situation. It really isn't that difficult.

But that throws your "just don't trigger fullcounter" defense right out the window, since it's guaranteed to trigger if the Warrior has any sense and stands in bad on purpose.

No I said to bait it. I also said that you shouldn't think to avoid it 100% of the time. My whole point is people think that it is unavoidable with zero counter play. That is just completely false. There are ways to avoid it, but you can't expect it to work 100% of them time.

Same goes for any attack. Tons of people complain about getting one shot by deaths judgement. I personally have only had that happen to me 1 maybe 2 times and that was because I was fighting to other people and just didn't notice the laser beam telling me to dodge. It's my fault. I wasn't paying enough attention. It happens. But 90%+ of the time it is easy to avoid.

Even if something is avoidable, even if it's easy to avoid, doesn't mean that all professions can avoid it in every situation. If they could it would be stupid. But all players can avoid it plenty of times without much difficulty.

You can't bait it in a teamfight, which is the problem. In a teamfight, FC will go off every 8 seconds like clockwork, because there is no way you can coordinate the timing of three people throwing AoEs onto the point around one player on the other team.

Actually that isn't at all unreasonable coordination, at all. That is normal coordination, akin to adapting your strategy and approach depending on any team composition you go up against. Literally any. You watch for the strengths of said certain class and you act to avoid them, mitigate them or counter play them. That is PvP, that is team PvP.

Also yes you can bait in team fights, if your team is actually moderately competent and knows even remotely what to expect from other classes then yes you can bait in a team fight, you can coordinate in a team fight. You can do a lot in team fights.

What I think is really the issue here is that Spellbreaker is exceptionally strong due to the fact that well Unranked matchmaking is...well non-existent and then Ranked matches only allow parties of 2 at the max rather than full 5 man premades. This is mostly an error on Anets part in that they need to start allowing Ranked play with premade teams so as to allow a much healthier PvP environment. They've done that with Automated Tournaments but those only happen at specific times and not everyone really jumps into those, whereas Ranked is much more frequently played when a season is running, and they also need to fix their matchmaking for Unranked so that people aren't paired up against Platinums when they are Bronze or paired with them. It has created a rather nightmarish situation for PvP and I really hope they fix that rather than just start nerfing classes into holes simply because they haven't yet created a healthier PvP environment by actually allowing much more coordinated play.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@Daharahj.1325 said:

• Reduce Signet of Rage's adrenaline generation No, youll nerf core war/zerk by extension.
• Reduce Burst Mastery's Adrenaline regen. No, see above
• Increase Featherfoot's Grace cooldown. Fine.
• Remove Stability from Full Counter or the Resistance component from Revenge Counter. No, you'll gimp the entirety of Spellbreaker. Why even suggest that people be allowed to interrupt a counter? The resistance component is there to prevent people from condi loading a war on AOE who needs to get close for FC to hit.
• Tone down Healing Signet healing. [Laughter] Sure let's nerf every warrior again just like the last 3 times we did this
• Reduce the power coefficient of Full Counter and/or remove the unblockable component. I'm on board with making it do less damage. That's fine. No to unblockable.
• Increase Full Counter's cooldown. Maybe, but probably not.

Ideally you'd look into toning down Spellbreaker without affecting Berserker or core Warrior too much. It goes without saying that we're not asking all these changes to be done simultaneously, only 2-3 should suffice.

I know you're consolidating the suggestions Daharahj, so don't take this as a direct critique of you.

I don't really care what Anet nerfs and when, because I'm pretty sure whoever whines the most is going to get their way in the end anyway; so I'm already prepared to use whatever works. It's just interesting to see people up in arms because of this,

Its a 300 range attack that lasts for 1.5 seconds, requires the user to be hit, and goes on cooldown for 8.

[Omcrazy.4756]

If there were a way to make pets/clones not proc FC then I think it would be reasonable. Maybe increase the CD by a couple seconds (maybe offset by reducing other burst CD?). The damage on SB isn't out of control at all. It issue is they have a lot of damage for the amount of sustain they get.

[Shala.8352]

there's a reason if in ladder this skill is called full retarded instead of full counter. You are not countering anything, the skill is impossible to not proc.Compare it to surge of the mist, 20 sec cd, knockback, plenty of energy and not even half the dmg even if hitting all the 8 hits, requires perfectly aligne on the target, and it was nerfed to the ground to the point to make power rev useless, and then come to tell me that full retarded doesnt need any nerf...

[Sorem.9157]

Spellbreaker is balanced. No nerf is needed.

• Signed: Warrior Main

[Havok.6073]

Spellbreaker is OP, needs a nerf.

Signed : Incompetent player X (Aka Butthurt Guardian 13185177623164314)

[Harmmany.8409]

The problem isn't full counter, it's the up time a warrior has with full counter.

I've seen multiple spellbreakers in DPS gear end a sPVP match as top heals, and that's not right.

There needs to be more trade off for warriors in terms of healing/mitigation and damage so they can't self heal better than healer specs and maintain good dps.