[PvP] P/D Condi Deadeye

[Dirame.8521]

I made a Condi Deadeye! It uses Rifle for mobility and a tiny bit of burst and P/D for condi burst. It was fun to play and I beat a few Holos (even Prot Holos) and Mirages along the way. Made me happy. Read the guide, give it a shot and tell us if you find it as powerful as I found it to be.

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Deadeye_-_P/D_Deadeye_Condi

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAU6Yn0MB1Oh1FDOGDUGjFYCzLNcGGR8LzmZ2U7PFAKAA-jpBHQBpZ/hBcBAE3RAAAPAADcQAWZZAA

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/454196060

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/454195173

[saerni.2584]

There’s a few issues with this build.

Basically you are a DE but your amulet and rune have no crit so you don’t build malice very well. You also have very little crit from your trait choices.

You also have a rifle which won’t help you very much because rifle isn’t a condi set. You don’t have very much condi burst built in because you mostly rely on Mark with Mercy to reset.

You also don’t have much in the way of condi cleanse. Swapping to rifle or using a different heal are your only options.

[saerni.2584]

I’ll put my suggestions in this reply:

Amulet: Deadshot or Wizard (preference to Wizard). This will get you the crit you need if you use Wizard.

Runes: Thief (crit and condi).

Weapons: You may be redundant using rifle and P/D. Both are ranged and single target / target reliant. Consider Shortbow.

[Dirame.8521]

@saerni.2584 said:There’s a few issues with this build.

Basically you are a DE but your amulet and rune have no crit so you don’t build malice very well. You also have very little crit from your trait choices.

You also have a rifle which won’t help you very much because rifle isn’t a condi set. You don’t have very much condi burst built in because you mostly rely on Mark with Mercy to reset.

You also don’t have much in the way of condi cleanse. Swapping to rifle or using a different heal are your only options.

Amazing analysis but I beg you, try the build first and then come back. Read the guide to get roughly how I play it, and what I swap out and when. But play the build first and then you'll see why I've bravely posted it up.

[Jack Redline.5379]

@Dirame.8521 said:

Amazing analysis but I beg you, try the build first and then come back.

You see that sentence? ^Yea that oneThat is the sentence where you screwed up bad and there is no way back nowYou triedJust keep your build and dont bother when ppl are gonna get salty

[Dirame.8521]

@Jack Redline.5379 said:

@Dirame.8521 said:

Amazing analysis but I beg you, try the build first and then come back.

You see that sentence? ^Yea that oneThat is the sentence where you screwed up bad and there is no way back nowYou triedJust keep your build and dont bother when ppl are gonna get salty

Haha, don't worry. I've made lots of builds in my time in this game, I know the drill but @saerni.2584 seems quite genuine as you said so, I'm hoping he takes me up on the offer.

I've tried this specc with condi removal, without condi removal. I could easily put Condi removal on my Elite use and Condi removal on heal with Malicious Restoration or Hide in Shadows. I could throw in Condi removal on hit for good measure too. I've just chose not to at the time of testing because i really wanted the novelty of being able to stealth after using withdraw with the trapper runes.

[saerni.2584]

I mean I do want to encourage him. I don’t think condi Deadeye is bad as such.

I do think you get a lot out of going for more crit and trying to build malice like a power DE.

This means, using CS and the stolen skills for extra stealth rather than building might. Note the stolen skills only give you might under FfE if they hit. The stolen skill always gives you stealth at higher malice.

The metabuild version here has a mention of using M7. With no crit you won’t regularly get that on a target that dodges and avoids even one or two attacks.

I’m not going to just post my build because I think there is more than one way to condi / hybrid DE. But I do want to give accurate feedback and encourage innovation at the same time.

@Dirame.8521@Jack Redline.5379

[Dirame.8521]

@saerni.2584 said:I mean I do want to encourage him. I don’t think condi Deadeye is bad as such.

I do think you get a lot out of going for more crit and trying to build malice like a power DE.

This means, using CS and the stolen skills for extra stealth rather than building might. Note the stolen skills only give you might under FfE if they hit. The stolen skill always gives you stealth at higher malice.

The metabuild version here has a mention of using M7. With no crit you won’t regularly get that on a target that dodges and avoids even one or two attacks.

I’m not going to just post my build because I think there is more than one way to condi / hybrid DE. But I do want to give accurate feedback and encourage innovation at the same time.

@Dirame.8521@Jack Redline.5379

Saerni, I hear you. You can run Wizard Amulet with this build and run Rune of Warrior for higher health stats with faster weapon swap so you can switch to escape mode much quicker.After extensive testing though, I felt I wanted the higher health from Carrion and instant crit from intelligence because the rotation I've gone for alleviates the issues you mention (i think, because i never felt any issues with gaining Malice stacks). And please let me see your build just to compare and contrast. And yea you are right people tend to random dodge when I stealth, which is funny. and that messes your combo up. That said though, when it works, it works well. It's all about timing.

[saerni.2584]

I can’t do GW2Skills that well on my phone so I’ll summarize my current build:

CS/SA/DE. I get might and bonus ferocity and perma Fury from CS as well as bonus damage for Pistol. In SA I get condi cleanse, stealth on Mark and Boonrip on Stealth attacks. DE I get extra stolen skills per cantrip, Cooldown reduction on kill and use Be Quick for extra precision and power with quickness.

Hide in Shadows, Shadowstep, Shadow Gust, Binding Shadows and Shadow Meld.

Bonus damage sigils per condi and 5%on impaired foes.

I need to play somewhat carefully because I lack extra stunbreaks (can use Mercy in place of Shadow Gust) and I don’t have that much initiative compared to a Trickery build. But I drop tons of bleed and torment and reapply it often.

It is a hybrid build so you can certainly try bringing it more into a condi direction.

[Dirame.8521]

@"saerni.2584" said:I can’t do GW2Skills that well on my phone so I’ll summarize my current build:

CS/SA/DE. I get might and bonus ferocity and perma Fury from CS as well as bonus damage for Pistol. In SA I get condi cleanse, stealth on Mark and Boonrip on Stealth attacks. DE I get extra stolen skills per cantrip, Cooldown reduction on kill and use Be Quick for extra precision and power with quickness.

Hide in Shadows, Shadowstep, Shadow Gust, Binding Shadows and Shadow Meld.

Bonus damage sigils per condi and 5%on impaired foes.

I need to play somewhat carefully because I lack extra stunbreaks (can use Mercy in place of Shadow Gust) and I don’t have that much initiative compared to a Trickery build. But I drop tons of bleed and torment and reapply it often.

It is a hybrid build so you can certainly try bringing it more into a condi direction.

I'd like to try out your set-up but I can't unfortunately. My access to GW2 has been cut for the forseeable future. I finished testing my build out and just made the guide as a sort of "farewell GW2, here's another crazy build from me before i disappear forever" and what not.

That said, I feel your build may have a bit of a wind-up whilst mine just bursts condis. You might think I'm exaggerating because it seems impossible based on staring at the set-up on a screen but the thing is, I was surprised as well. The damage on this is just stupid for a condi spec. The only people that can handle it for a short time are Condi cleanse classes and Stealth heavy classes (so far). Everyone else I've fought just gets deleted before they realize what's happening.

[saerni.2584]

Not sure what you mean by wind up. The damage through condi and otherwise is pretty quick.

That said, good luck doing what you need to do outside of the game. Life comes first after all.

[Dirame.8521]

@saerni.2584 said:Not sure what you mean by wind up. The damage through condi and otherwise is pretty quick.

That said, good luck doing what you need to do outside of the game. Life comes first after all.

Okay, what weapons do you use?

And yea, thanks for the well wishes. The future of lovely people are at stake so got to put my head down.

[saerni.2584]

@Dirame.8521 said:

@saerni.2584 said:Not sure what you mean by wind up. The damage through condi and otherwise is pretty quick.

That said, good luck doing what you need to do outside of the game. Life comes first after all.

Okay, what weapons do you use?

And yea, thanks for the well wishes. The future of lovely people are at stake so got to put my head down.

P/D and Shortbow for offhand.

[Dirame.8521]

@saerni.2584 said:

@Dirame.8521 said:

@saerni.2584 said:Not sure what you mean by wind up. The damage through condi and otherwise is pretty quick.

That said, good luck doing what you need to do outside of the game. Life comes first after all.

Okay, what weapons do you use?

And yea, thanks for the well wishes. The future of lovely people are at stake so got to put my head down.

P/D and Shortbow for offhand

Alright. I also didn't mention what I meant by 'wind up'; like having to stack enough torment and poison to hit hard or not really bursting a person down but having more sustained damage pressure. That's what your build seems like it can do well. Surviving whilst also having good sustained damage.

[saerni.2584]

The hybrid nature means I hit hard and fast. There isn’t much ramp up time to decent bleed and torment numbers.

I’m not hitting 5k/second on the condi instantly but my power damage makes up for that.

[dDuff.3860]

Ok, let me comment your choices.

First of all, taking MS7 and Carrion amulet is out of any logic, even with Wizard amulet your ini pool won't be enough to stack 7 malice, thus making trait choice useless. Add here One in the Chamber, and I guarantee you won't get a single MS7 proc.Second, even with the slightest power stat (and esp with carrion) you want to take mug, this is all great trait for dealing hybrid damage and sustaining yourself. Utilizing renewing gaze you can actually do a lot of self healing off clones, turrets, pets, etc.Third, Scorpion's wire? Binding shadow? Both abilities are indicator of a "noob build". While I can agree on binding shadow bringing value, it is still a very bad skill, amount of random dodges and blocks, etc, make it hit with only 50% chance (roughly). And BS is used for bursting, I doubt you can burst with Carrion. This makes this ability not worth spending utility slot on. Shadowstep is an ability you take for ANY thief build if you want to succeed.

Here you look for a good P/d DE build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAqYUn0MBNGjFOBmOBUGjFYCzLNcGGR8Hzm51ULBEAKAA-jpxBQBY4QAIujAwHPBAA4BAA0yApY/BA

You can check my twitch vods for P/d gameplay and the build itself. It is fun, but less optimal compared to power builds.

[babazhook.6805]

@"dDuff.3860" said:Ok, let me comment your choices.

First of all, taking MS7 and Carrion amulet is out of any logic, even with Wizard amulet your ini pool won't be enough to stack 7 malice, thus making trait choice useless. Add here One in the Chamber, and I guarantee you won't get a single MS7 proc.Second, even with the slightest power stat (and esp with carrion) you want to take mug, this is all great trait for dealing hybrid damage and sustaining yourself. Utilizing renewing gaze you can actually do a lot of self healing off clones, turrets, pets, etc.Third, Scorpion's wire? Binding shadow? Both abilities are indicator of a "noob build". While I can agree on binding shadow bringing value, it is still a very bad skill, amount of random dodges and blocks, etc, make it hit with only 50% chance (roughly). And BS is used for bursting, I doubt you can burst with Carrion. This makes this ability not worth spending utility slot on. Shadowstep is an ability you take for ANY thief build if you want to succeed.

Here you look for a good P/d DE build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAqYUn0MBNGjFOBmOBUGjFYCzLNcGGR8Hzm51ULBEAKAA-jpxBQBY4QAIujAwHPBAA4BAA0yApY/BA

You can check my twitch vods for P/d gameplay and the build itself. It is fun, but less optimal compared to power builds.

It simply untrue that One can not ramp up Malice fast enough in a purely condition p/d build so as to get Mali 7 to trigger. Sinc the add of repeater I swapped to Mali 7 and while I do not PvP (most time in wvw) I build up Malice to 7 quickly enough to get those procs using combinations of shadowstrike , repeater and #2 or4. Malicious intent means you only need 6 procs. Shadowstrike/repeater/repeater gives 3 more at the cost of 8 ini. 15 ini pool and with the steal mixed in that 17. Trait up Totc and a low Crit build will run a little over 20 percent with minimal precision giving a Crit on each of the two repeater uses . Drop malicious intent and you can still hit 7 malice quite readily.

[Dirame.8521]

@"dDuff.3860" said:Ok, let me comment your choices.

First of all, taking MS7 and Carrion amulet is out of any logic, even with Wizard amulet your ini pool won't be enough to stack 7 malice, thus making trait choice useless. Add here One in the Chamber, and I guarantee you won't get a single MS7 proc.

I don't make guides without testing my builds first on actual players so you're wrong about me not proccing MS7.

Second, even with the slightest power stat (and esp with carrion) you want to take mug, this is all great trait for dealing hybrid damage and sustaining yourself. Utilizing renewing gaze you can actually do a lot of self healing off clones, turrets, pets, etc.

You're right about the healing, I just preferred the extra option of a trap in the build for cool combos. That aside, I am not trying to make a hybrid specc. If it was hybrid the topic would be Hybrid P/D Deadeye. This is pure Condi with direct damage options for speeding up the win.

Third, Scorpion's wire? Binding shadow? Both abilities are indicator of a "noob build". While I can agree on binding shadow bringing value, it is still a very bad skill, amount of random dodges and blocks, etc, make it hit with only 50% chance (roughly).

Please never call anything definitively 'noob', if it is in your opinion, then cool. But if you think it is universal fact then, we'll just have to disagree on that.

And BS is used for bursting, I doubt you can burst with Carrion. This makes this ability not worth spending utility slot on. Shadowstep is an ability you take for ANY thief build if you want to succeed.

Shadowstep is great and all but in the fights I have had all I needed was stealth and Rifle 4#

Here you look for a good P/d DE build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAqYUn0MBNGjFOBmOBUGjFYCzLNcGGR8Hzm51ULBEAKAA-jpxBQBY4QAIujAwHPBAA4BAA0yApY/BA

You can check my twitch vods for P/d gameplay and the build itself. It is fun, but less optimal compared to power builds.

I'll take a look at your vids when I get the chance.

This would've been easier if I made videos but I don't anymore so my word would have to be enough.

dDuff, you underestimate the power of good consistent CC which is why you think Scorp Wire and BiSh are weak. In any case it seems there are quite a few good builds for Deadeye Condi which is nice to see.

[saerni.2584]

I’ll comment on the M7 vs not debate:

When I build malice I worry about (1) consistency and (2) usability.

Consistency is self explanatory. Usability means being able to easily take advantage of the mechanics involved.

In my build I wait to use stolen skills until I hear the ping that lets me know malice is at 5. That lets me focus on my opponent and their animations.

When you add M7 into the mix that ping happens later than the minimum required malice for stolen skills to grant stealth. This means I may use the stolen skill early for defensive purposes and have it not grant stealth because of an unlucky hit which didn’t crit.

It also means, unless I build for haste in my utilities, that the attacks needed to build up malice happen over a longer time frame both in terms of absolute # of attacks and time to cast them. In PvP this can be a big difference which opens you up to counter attack while you try to build up to full malice.

Basically, I find M7 to be less damage than Be Quick and less safe.

I’ll note that you can use sigils in WvW and PvE which grant haste on interrupt. This, on a 20 second cooldown and with a haste utility might make using M7 in those contexts better, depending on play style. In PvP where those sigils aren’t available your options are more limited.

[Dirame.8521]

@saerni.2584 said:I’ll comment on the M7 vs not debate:

When I build malice I worry about (1) consistency and (2) usability.

Consistency is self explanatory. Usability means being able to easily take advantage of the mechanics involved.

In my build I wait to use stolen skills until I hear the ping that lets me know malice is at 5. That lets me focus on my opponent and their animations.

When you add M7 into the mix that ping happens later than the minimum required malice for stolen skills to grant stealth. This means I may use the stolen skill early for defensive purposes and have it not grant stealth because of an unlucky hit which didn’t crit.

It also means, unless I build for haste in my utilities, that the attacks needed to build up malice happen over a longer time frame both in terms of absolute # of attacks and time to cast them. In PvP this can be a big difference which opens you up to counter attack while you try to build up to full malice.

Basically, I find M7 to be less damage than Be Quick and less safe.

I’ll note that you can use sigils in WvW and PvE which grant haste on interrupt. This, on a 20 second cooldown and with a haste utility might make using M7 in those contexts better, depending on play style. In PvP where those sigils aren’t available your options are more limited.

For me i don't pay attention to it that deeply. I prefer M7 for certain situations, like for mobility (near infinite swiftness) and surviviability (near infinite vigor). If it hit, it hits (and it usually hits) but would rather have Fire for Effect to really ramp up the might-stacks quickly so that all my conditions hit hard and hit hard FAST.

[Jack Redline.5379]

@saerni.2584 said:

I’m not going to just post my build because I think there is more than one way to condi / hybrid DE. But I do want to give accurate feedback and encourage innovation at the same time.

@Jack Redline.5379

And i never got that one from anyone.Which is imo quite sad

[Dirame.8521]

@dDuff.3860So after watching a bit of your P/d play, yea your build has a good amount of condi removal and that definitely helps your survivability but when it comes to turning people into mush before they realize what's happening, the other set-up does it better. If you can stomach going without shadowstep for a game and using some noob skills like Scorp Wire and BiSh, and running the full set-up I suggested, you may see what I mean. Just make sure you read the rotation in my guide there to see how I learned to pull it off.

[Dirame.8521]

I don't know if you guys @dDuff.3860 @"saerni.2584" have tried something like this http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsYUn0MBNNh1FDOGD0PhFsCjfP2HTkeZgLw0pLAEdKAA-jpBHQBfc/BAcEAE3hAAhnAgA8AAwXZAA before. I was wondering if Trickery with confusion spam and Boon Steal spam would be better or Deadly Arts with Mug and poison spam......

I know I have the weirdest choices for utility but just ignore that and focus on the traits.

[saerni.2584]

@Dirame.8521 said:I don't know if you guys @dDuff.3860 @"saerni.2584" have tried something like this http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsYUn0MBNNh1FDOGD0PhFsCjfP2HTkeZgLw0pLAEdKAA-jpBHQBfc/BAcEAE3hAAhnAgA8AAwXZAA before. I was wondering if Trickery with confusion spam and Boon Steal spam would be better or Deadly Arts with Mug and poison spam......

I know I have the weirdest choices for utility but just ignore that and focus on the traits.

Confusion is not viable because the duration is low and limited to landing Mark. That won’t help you get kills. The torment on evade and poison for supplemental damage and utility (-33% heal) will probably be better.

[Dirame.8521]

@saerni.2584 said:

@Dirame.8521 said:I don't know if you guys @dDuff.3860 @saerni.2584 have tried something like this

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsYUn0MBNNh1FDOGD0PhFsCjfP2HTkeZgLw0pLAEdKAA-jpBHQBfc/BAcEAE3hAAhnAgA8AAwXZAA

before. I was wondering if Trickery with confusion spam and Boon Steal spam would be better or Deadly Arts with Mug and poison spam......

I know I have the weirdest choices for utility but just ignore that and focus on the traits.

Confusion is not viable because the duration is low and limited to landing Mark. That won’t help you get kills. The torment on evade and poison for supplemental damage and utility (-33% heal) will probably be better.

I see your point about the utility of poison but don't you think re-application uptime of confusion makes it viable as well?